L2F:

She wants to make it YOUR FAULT.

Therefore, she goes to the web, and prints off the forms that the court posts for an uncontested divorce.

No, you don't need an attorney to divorce.

See what happened to SYF? No Attorney, and screwed on CS, EVEN though the agreement had something else.

So, get an attorney, to protect yourself and gain knowledge particular to your Sitch and state.

What she gave you was paper that she couldn't bear to complete.

IF she was so he!!-bent on D'ing you, she would have them all completed, sent to the court house, and you getting served by the court, as required.

All she did was fill in some blanks, and hand them to you.

Stick them in a file folder somewhere, they may come in handy later, although I'm sure there isn't enough info on them to help/harm your case.

Your daughters are old enough that they can spend time alone in your house without thier mother, who can find an undisclosed location on the weekends when you are home.

I think that if you really wanted to move this thing along, you have the consult with the attorney, and start working on a plan to move her OUT.

She likes the fence. Time to knock her off.

Your WW is FINE with staying home all week while you are not there, enjoying the fruits of your labor, and then she enjoys someone elses fruit on the weekend.

Time to let them provide all the fruit.

And she loses some of that that she wants around. Daughters. The Facade of a normal life. The Home, etc.

JH has been advising you, and I recommend that you continue to do so.

JH will cost you alot less than the attorneys, whether 1 or 2, and the other costs of actual divorce. Emotional, physical, monetary, etc.

Start making lists of your interactions with daughters and the time you send with them. Make sure you get 50/50 custody. And this may be something that filing first works to your advantage. You sue for 100% custody, and the reasons why, and continuation of abode, with her vacating for your childrens well being. By you getting on the record FIRST, she has to move the court OFF of it.

LG

Yup! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />



...which after 2+ years you think she could figure out... She's NO dummy, and she's VERY capable. As a military wife of 17+ years, she's been in charge of ALL our business at home and is nothing if not capable...so your points are well-taken.

If you read my sitch, you'll see that due to logistics and the realities of my job situation and deployment schedule, moving her out is a non-starter.

Also, while she's still IC, it appears as if OM has long-since determined this is not so much worth the hassle, and only contacts her when it's convenient for him... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> What an A$$!

Had too many windows open when I stumbled on the below and copied it from another post...but I really think it applies in my situation:



Her primary focus now seems to be on fleeing from all the guilt, pain and pressure all associated with HER actions, and the only OUT she now sees is D...

Plan A.......

Hey LaLA, stumbled on the below from one of your other posts...



GREAT stuff!! She's gone through EACH of these, and we're currently at # 4 and 5. When she is dismissive of effect on DD/DS, I want to SCREAM!!!

Ya know, I would say "thanks" but LORD it's hard to own up to that crap!!! I just need BSs who come hear in absolute agony over the thoughtless, ridiculous, devastating things WSs say, asking "is my WS really in a fog?" to know the answer is a resounding YES!!!

The sad part is I don't know how many of them fully come out of it, and how many just spend the rest of their lives sitting in this mindframe and convincing themselves it is RIGHT to feel this way. And, of course, blaming everything and everyone else for their lot in life. How long would I have gone on if it hadn't been for MB? I know for darn sure that DH was D-O-N-E and that if I hadn't figured it out when I did, my silly butt would be at the beginning of a D right now. And my kids...ugh...it just hurts very much to think about it.

I hope your WW wakes up soon, L2F- for your sake and the sake of your children. Hang in there, buddy!

LaLa, I can imagine it must be hard...your courage in coming here, your courage to fight, your courage to face YOURSELF is truly inspiring...I am very happy for you!

Thank You.

Talking about the MB principles is all well and good, but as we've all heard, the good Dr himself has said he'd leave if his W had an A. That's why it's so very important to see that they actually work in practice.

After reading of all the misery here a BS can whip up a good dose of self-righteous anger - I know I have. Reading your story, while I'm sure it triggers you muchly to write, really DOES help others to see that there's a real and human face behind the alien behavior.

I know that I am nearing the end of a poor plan A, due both to my own particular logistical realities, and the advanced stage of my dear WW's own determined campaign to end this marriage in favor of...well, I'm just not sure what - and neither is she. However, she quotes from your #5 above... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Seeing the human side of the pain you feel/felt is important for me. I am often filled w/ such anger towards her - the primary reason I'll need to soon be switching plans.

I had a dream the other night. There was a gang of hoodlums outside our house making a terrible ruckus as they drank, carried on and vandalized cars on the street. My children were upset. I went outside to "take care of" the situation by confronting them and trying to explain how it's not nice to deface other people's property and keep children up on a school night. Guess who was there? OM, in all his loser regalia and his friends... He gave me a "yeah, whatever dude" and out of the corner of my eye I saw WW slink off into the darkness so as not to be seen or confronted....

Even with the full force and weight of "what's right" on my side, my dear WW and loser OM can still do whatever they like to tear down the most important thing in my life - my family... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

But what was important in this dream is that YOU did go outside and confront the threat to your family. OM's brillant reply, "yeah whatever dude" was oh so typical. Maybe your wife slinking off was her shame at seeing you doing the right thing and embarrassment of seeing OM revealed for what he is. I think you can get this from that dream, never be afraid to stand up for your family. The OM isn't as big a threat as you think... he's just a punk.

AMEN, PM!!

Hang on to what you know is RIGHT and REAL. You are fighting for your W and your M, not your WW and her babble. Keep fighting the good fight, and you will be rewarded- whether it is by recovering your M or just knowing you did the best you could.

Thanks LaLa, PM...

As helpless and powerless as I feel because the RESULTS aren't like I'd wish, I really AM doing all I can do.

I am NOT rolling over, I am NOT giving in to this evil, I'm fighting for my family!

Thx for that boost...I needed that!

L2F

Hey all,

Had a great Plan A coupla days...

DD's birthday - she offered to pay for half!!?? She thanked me for picking it up a couple of days later, totally unsolicited. My response was - "of COURSE I'd pay, it's my daughter's birthday, and I'm the financial base of the family, that's my job."

I called her this morning on a business-related item and she was a little short with me. This afternoon out of the blue she apologized for being testy and I thanked her then tell her how I probably didn't express myself clearly and took the "blame" for the interaction.

It was a surprise for her to apologize as her inability to do so in the past has been an issue w/ her for years. My gracious acceptance than shouldering of my own responsibility I think set her at ease...

We chatted nicely for another few minutes then I went to the gym.

It felt great hearing what sounded like her "old self".

For those of you who haven't read the link to my situation in my first post of this thread, during the week I work in another town and come home on weekends. She routinely leaves, but we still talk on the phone and cross paths, when I try to plan A my butt off...

OBTW, no mention of the papers and it's been a week...

Kinda makes me think of Lino's WS moving divorce papers around the house, and her giving them to me was just another poke...

Graplin, I see I didn't answer your question...No, she didn't give me any instructions, instead she muttered something like "you can read them, shred them or do whatever with them..."

hmmmm......

Hey L2F!!!

Sounds like you're doing better with your Plan-A! Keep it up!

I know it's hard, but it will take some time for her to start believing that your actions are "real". I'm really happy for you!

Semper Fi,

RIF

I think I'm coming out of my own fog, after dday plus 18months...

The realities of this military lifestyle has dragged this thing out for so long...

Reading TMTS, 14th and Lino's threads have taken on new meanings to me just recently.

While I "understood" on a rational level before all the Plan A fundamentals...I've finally got it. It was like a switch that finally got thrown.

I am able to practice "loving detachment", I am improving my reverse babble, I recognize the futility of trying to "storm the castle" with a full frontal assault, instead opting for the longer, more circuitous route. I have learned patience.

Perhaps it's the spending more time with my kids... When I'm with them, I'm truly WITH them, and present in a way I wasn't for so many years. I think in many ways I was sleepwalking through my life and marriage because it was so busy.

Is that how it is for FWWs? There have been many here who look back at how foggy they were, but I've not read a post where one talked about that "moment" when they "got it", and why...

I was talking on the phone w/ WW the other day and was telling her about someone high-ranking at my work that had engaged in an affair before I'd arrived there. I forget how it came up, but it was not a planned topic. I stopped for a moment, realizing the irony of telling this to WW, then continued, as though she too would appreciate the story.

I didn't do it (as far as I can tell) to educate or snipe at her, but instead to confide in my DW a story of interest. It was as though we both were able to understand how truly low this person's actions were without applying it to our own marriage. I left it there and moved on to other daily light conversation.

I wondered what she was thinking after we hung up...

However, I realized that I didn't care! I wasn't trying to outwit her, or teach her, we were just talking. I realized I didn't have to edit my thoughts to please her. I let the chips fall where they may.

This was also a conversation DD and I had recently. After she'd said how she'd told mom that she wanted her to tell her she wouldn't be seeing OM again, WW said she couldn't tell her that. DD said it made her feel like bringing things up like that with mom was useless.

I told her that it wasn't HER JOB to worry about what mom would think. She's a child, and it's her job to be selfish. WW is the parent, and it's her job to be one. She seemed satisfied with that, sensing the truth of it and it made her relieved that she didn't have any responsibility to edit her feelings so as not to offend her mother...

I know that many have said that affairs have resulted in stronger marriages...perhaps it's because ONE of the partners has had to become such a grown-up to survive the A...

Wow, I just took a trip through L2F land...

Got a couple of questions...On 11/17, you said you were in Plan B...what happened?

I must have missed the post where you said the logistics of her moving out were a no-go.

Right now, you're still in Plan A...and she's cake-eating...because you ARE meeting her ENs...and you know it.

Just gotta say...WOW...I read your posts to others, so many of them, just amazing. Re-read them, L2F...you know how to stay present, respect (that letter to OMF was terrific), know when you project (or suspect you're doing it), act not react, stand for your marriage, listen and repeat (you do that, right?), and choose to love, act from your choice to love, anyway.

Now I find your current thread...and I hear you got discouraged, went into her stuff...even assumed what wasn't...felt reactive...and came to grips with her fantasy, even about divorce. Not signed, not filed...and yeah, I gave the "why pay two attorneys" during my A. And I did like lino's WW...printed out the do-it-yourself-dissolution in my state, helpfully provided for the quickie online divorce, left them around, moved them around...I threw out those forms two years ago...felt great...and shameful...and embarrassing.

You asked at what point did you wake up (okay, you asked Lexxxy, not me)...and I got to tell you...took too much...took BH becoming a WH, and me telling him to leave.

Kettle/pot/chaos.

Thing is...he left. He did. No more ENs met...and I went searching for traces of him all over the house...and found his journals...full of his pain, his confusion, his fear and his love...and anger.

Then typed into a search engine "save my marriage" and God brought me here.

Your pain doesn't get through to your WW...you can't say it, act it, show her it in anyway that will penetrate the fog...because her fog is pain...and after two years...it's a hardened bundle...

Your presence is powerful...don't lose sight of that...human presence is...so often overlooked and under-rated. Don't you do that. Know it...like you do with your girls...know its power.

I really think it is time for Plan B...and to share that, as you were advised before, as you continuing to stand for your marriage, fight for your family...can you get out of the service, btw?

You said back in October in advice to another military BH, you know how the distance added to your issues in the marriage...even as it provided the important FS EN...so did it take precedence over your marriage, time and time again...so I'm asking you directly, what's your highest priority?

Thanks for inviting me to your thread...feels like a gift to me having your posts on MB to read and learn from. You rock.

LA

Plan-A

Plan-A

Plan-A

... You're doing great L2F!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Semper Fi,

RIF

Thanks for the cheer, RIF!!!

LA, you brought tears to my eyes...

Yes it's been a ride, but one I'm not ready to get off.

You asked about my brief plan B. I ended it for two reasons. First, I remembered/realized that plan B isn't so much to break the affair, but to protect my own love bank. With my being gone during the week, it gives me the time to protect myself and focus on my life before I dive back into any face to face interactions...

Secondly, my dear 13 yr old son said, "Dad, how can you work on anything if you don't talk to her? Isn't that just running away??" I had to laugh...yeah, it kinda is. My reasons for going to plan b when I did had more to do with my pushing her to have no contact and her refusing to do so and I responded with a "well then I can no longer have any contact with you..." A reaction, not a plan...

So, I'm back in plan A until I get a flashing red LOW LOVE BANK light...

Most of the discouragement you have been reading is my venting here where it doesn't affect my mood negatively. I've tried to be such a rock for so long and took a hiatus from posting here that things either got bottled up or I spewed them out at WW...never a good idea.

I'm back here to be able to have others "witness" my pain since WW can't/won't.

Thank you all for bearing witness and offering your help and support, as I've tried to do to others...

My highest priority is my family...actually my kids. Actually, I guess you could say my highest priority is me, and in looking after myself I can then be the source of support my children need.

As for being a husband, I've moved from Buyer to Renter status. Over the years, I think I was the renter, and in the earlier stages of my marriage, WW was the Buyer. A couple of years before the A, I moved to the Buyer category, but it was only after I think I'd sensed WW had moved to being a renter.

I spent a good deal of time being a buyer with her new freeloader status and it killed me. Depleted my love bank.

I'm in a more stable and sustainable place now as a renter, which allows me to not react so much to her freeloader status.

As for getting out. I've talked w/ many others about this and have made MY decision to stay. Reasons are numerous, but bottom line, I'm on my last deployable tour before retirement and besides not being able to get out right now due to contractual reasons--yes, I honor contracts--if I try to shorten it, I'll only end up filling some individual deployment in a combat zone and spend up to a whole year away...unacceptable for my kids....

The military lifestyle makes a pure Plan A/Plan B almost impossible. In essence, I'm able to do both, swooping in and plan A'ing the heck out of her, then leaving and not LBing. Yeah it leaves open the possibility of contact, but that's HER choice, and nothing I can do can control that part of her behavior.

I often hear of people here turning off cell phone accounts, shutting off internet, etc., but in reality, all a WS has to do is get their own cell phone or go to an internet cafe...again, it's their choice, and must be held accountable.

My being gone doesn't enable her A, it only provides her more opportunities to make a bad choice...not something within my control.

My love bank is stable due to family, friends, and even some inputs from those here...thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> (no worries, only the most platonic ENs...)

SO, that's where I am, and that's where I'll stay until and unless she divorces me.

L2F,
Today I finally got some time to read other people's thread's to try to educate myself more. I never realized that so many people were following along and going through almost identical [email]cr@p.[/email] I haven't read everything, but I'm trying to follow yours, TMTS, and 14th's.

I'm going to give you the same quote I gave 14 earlier, just to show you my support.

"In the confrontation between the river and the rock, the river always wins…not through strength but by perseverance."

I know its not much, but keep it in the back of your mind.

Thanks Lino!

It IS truly amazing how similar all these cases are...did they all watch the same stupid movie on Lifetime, or what?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I too have spent some time over in your corner and you're getting great support over there...hang in there!!

L2F

LA, I reread your post...and like most of your posts, I get more each time I read them...pulling layers off the onion...



Is that a bad thing to be meeting her ENs? After all these years I'm slowly discovering just what they are.

As for her cake-eating...yes, she is. There are some here who advocate action to push her off the fence, but knowing how stubborn she is in general, doing so I truly feel will push her onto the side away from me.

A recurring theme is that most affairs die a natural death. In her case, it is dying, if not already dead. Problem is, she's still clinging to it to some unknown degree--hence her refusal to commit to no contact.

OM is a loser--plain and simple, and pretty much the only thing I say to her these days is that she "deserves better", rather than detail just how much of a scum he is.

She thanks me for saying that... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

If I'm patient and consistent...with my Plan A and let her Plan A(ffair) die, then we both win, right?



I SO see this! And it is so sad. That's exactly what she is...a hardened bundle... I see my "job" as being to slowly loosen it, rather than chop away at it.



Where in there did your "decision" to reengage happen? Was it the shock of him finding someone else??

During our trip to the marriage bootcamp one of the facilitators told me he told her that one day I'll have enough of this and walk away. He described her response as a sort of surprised shock... Perhaps that's what it'll take.



Thanks for sharing your experience too, LA, and I thought I had asked for it as well. As for my being a WH, I can tell you that I am SO conscious of what ENs are NOT being met that I consciously avert my eyes from anyone I find attrractive.

I stopped exchanging emails with someone I met (NOT from MB, btw) who was also going through a tough time because I found myself feeling the beginnings of an emotional attachment with her (she probably had no clue) and it truly rattled me.

I also have stopped drinking ANY alcohol or coffee and have been pleasantly surprised at how my highs and lows have all evened out. I still have the same emotions, but I can recognize them for what they are, deal with them and not react or let them control ME...

The roller coaster ride no longer has painful drops or jolts...it's just another ride...



Thanks for this, and your comments on my earlier posts, LA...it means a lot to me.

I think one of the things that makes WW truly uncomfortable is just how present I am...it unnerves her sometimes... I need to tone it down sometimes, work on the nonchalance.

I AM a force to be reckoned with <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> and I need to be a little less intimidating <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Beautiful day here...hope you are all enjoying it as well!

L2F

To answer your question from my own sitch, the realization came when DH said I want a D, and he meant it. He had never threatened it in all those months of ups and downs (this was 10 months after D-day), so I knew he was serious. That night I went to the Recovery board and told my angry, wayward story.

When DH got home from work that night, he still wanted the D...(I thought he would cool off while at work, but NOPE, he was D-O-N-E). I tried to talk with him a little bit and realized it was going nowhere. When he came to bed, I just lost it...sobbing for over an hour and begging him to stay. He was stunned. Rarely do I cry, and this was full-body, gut-wrenching, can't-even-talk-or-breath sobbing. He agreed we could keep working at the M and wouldn't leave or file for D. A couple nights later I brought my story to this board and got a true MB edumacation! I think it was a combination of me being petrified, and heartbroken for my boys if we were to D, and finally letting go of the anger and letting the rest of my walls come down. Then, if you have read my thread (first few pages), you know what happened with the vets here. They straightened me up RIGHT QUICK, thankya! From there, I read story after story of people here in so much pain over the very thing I had done to my DH, and was shocked at the similarities! I started reaching out to them and since then we have been well on our way to recovery.

So, there you have it...OH, and this...


Um, I think it was Oprah <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oprah... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> don't get me started.

If there was ever someone who should NEVER be giving relationship advice...it's her.

On a different note, been reading the whole Plan B for an alcoholic thing and it's got me thinking...

I think that WW has an "alcohol problem".

She would deny it.

Mother and grandmother are full-blown alcoholics.

In replaying most of our poor exchanges of the last decade, alcohol was involved.

She met OM when drunk off her A$$.

She's often flirted when drunk.

She does NOT drink and drive.

She does NOT get falling down drunk.

She is NOT physically abusive.

But she just gets argumentative and is generally not very nice after that second glass of wine...

I've skirted around this for years, perhaps trying to downplay it, trying to deny it, since I didn't know what to do.

Many here have mentioned Al Anon. How does that work?

Suggestions?

Just spent a total of about an hour w/ WW while home briefly to "fix" some stuff before heading out of town for a week.

Kids made huge deposits in my Love Bank...God bless them.

WW was pleasant.

She just does NOT look me in the eye much anymore, as nice as I am to her...

Lousy weather...both outside and inside my soul right now.

Reminding myself that feelings follow actions, not other way around, otherwise I'll go nuts... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Sure would appreciate any additions to WW's thread while I'm out of pocket. She may not respond, but she does read it...

I'll check back in next Sat...

Hope you all have a great week!

L2F