PF, how come the OM was fired? Does their employer know about the affair? What does he do?

When I was working on the last post I saw the new developments posted here. Melody is on the right track here. Is she willing to commit to NC with a NC letter?

Mr. Wondering has written some great posts to others about what he had to say at the same point in his wifes ordeal. Paraphrasing that is told her that he loved her and wanted to do whatever it takes to recover their marriage, but he couldn't do that with three people involved. He was willing to put out the effort..but refused to be a doormat or to do anything that allowed her affair to continue.

NT

Her approach reflects a profound ignorance about the true gravity of adultery and its imminent threat to your marriage and children's family. She seems not to comprehend that the patient is on the floor bleeding to death. Instead she wants to focus on why the PERP feels low self esteem for stabbing the victim repeatedly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

What kind of mental and physical symptoms have you experienced throughout all this? Are you on anti-d's?

The OM was fired because he couldn't handle the current situation and had caused a few scenes at work, he was warned after these incidents, but couldn't keep things strictly on a professional level. Then it got to be too much of a distraction and other employees were starting to talk. The employer knew about the affair and was fine with it, that is until it started going sour.

I will speak to WW about a no contact letter, and be guarded on believing her about NC for the forseeable future.

I like some of your suggestions NT. The sudo converstaion looks good as does paraphrase of Mr Wondering. I will look at his stuff.

As for my mental and physical symptoms. I think overall I've been doing pretty weel. I am not on AD's and never felt the need to do so. When the affair wa s first exposed, I had some trouble sleeping and eating, but it didn't last too long. And after I told WW to move out I started feeling pretty good and was doing really well this summer, looking forward to my future and what it held for my kids and I. Then in October when the affair blew up and the WW moved back in I started thinking of reconciliation again and it kind of set me back emotionally. I have good days and bad days, but have a great support team of not only my brother, but also my pastor at church, who I am very good friends with. I also help lead the worship team at church and that helps me stay focused on things other than the current situation. So over all I am doing pretty well, but sometimes, like last night, something happens that just totally frustrates me.

Now that is funny and I don't care who you are. Profoundly sad, but still funny and on point.

Wow, it is no accident that you found this forum, IMO. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, nottoday. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Patientforgiver, I cringe every time I read your screen name and I wanted to show you this article so you would understand why. I think Harley's notion of forgiveness is absolutely brilliant and is Biblically based. He discusses this concept in his video, too: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html

I hope others in this type situation can see here that the affair started ending when PF put his foot down and decided to not be walked on anymore.

PF wrote:

"I stopped enabling the affair last March when I told her she had to move out. Then again a little over two weeks ago when I forced her to make a decision. I do believe that the affair is over, but NC could not begin until this Friday, the OM's last day at the workplace."

Too many times I read here that the BS doesn't want to expose the WS for fear of making them mad and runnming them off. More likely, the result will be the beginning of the end of the affair.

Kudos to PF for acting and not just sitting there fretting.

Okay I am now the "artist formerly know as PatientForgiver".

I agree MelodyLane, I never felt comfortable with that screen name either.

I read the article about forgiveness and have to say forgiving is something I have spoken about at great length with my support team. Forgiveness is a tough nut to crack. On one hand God forgives us of our sins against him, which are greater than any sin we committ to each other. On the other hand I don't think there is true forgiveness with out repentence. So I agree with what Dr H says about compensation and forgiving.

I went to Borders at lunch today and got "Surviving and Affair" so I will be reading that for the next few days.

I am leary of my WW and her committment to NC after this Friday. Even today she sent an email to myself, the OM and OM's ex, saying that they have agreed to NC. All I can do is wait, watch and see if she holds to it.

The OM's ex is very adament about her children not being allowed around the two of them together, just as I am. The WW's and OM's relationship is just too volatile, and we don't want our children exposed to it.

I appreciate the Kudos about making the WW wife move out. I do believe it led to the eventual downfall of the affair. In fact I always figured they would have to move in together and start dealing with real life, rather than the fantasy of the affair, before they would see how the relationship would be. And sure enough the OM couldn't handle it. Actually over the summer we had been working towards the divorce and getting the papers together, but I was dragging my feet and not pushing forward knowing that I wanted to let their relationship play out a bit and see what happened. I had moved on, but there was still a part of me that knew they wouldn't last. All that being said, I am a firm believer that the affair still exists as long as there is still contact. So in that regard the affair still isn't over. And if after this Friday I see any contact I will proceed to Plan B.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> thanks!!

Good job on getting the book! I think you are headed in the right direction, FPF. Right now it is just wait and see. I think you will see remnants of your wife in Sue, the case study in that book. It is a pretty fast read, but it will help you understand the dynamics here.

I predict that if you do go into Plan B, that you won't be there for long before this all collapses. Unfortunately, that might be the best thing for all.[Plan B] It is easy for her to carry on while she has your protection. Without that, her affair is really doomed. And we would help you negotiate her return so you hopefully don't have to endure a REPEAT false recovery as you did before.

WW was in rare form last night. Laid into me pretty heavy about a lot of things. It's my fault her life is a mess right now because I exposed the affair to her family and friends, because I kept telling her if she would get away from OM we could work things our, because I told her I thought what she was doing wasn't good for the kids or anyone else. Basically I'm the root of all her struggles, and she told me she just doesn't like me.

According to her she is madly in love with the OM and not me and their relationship is not the typical affair. What they had was soooooo special. Well at least until he threw her into a wall leaving a large hole in the bathroom, or until she had to fight her way out the house and call the police so she could get away, or until she called the police to have them check on our kids because of his behaviour. You know but other than those things it was so very special.

She thinks this whole idea of the LoveBank and making deposits and withdrawals is stupid. She says "I know what it takes to have a good relationship", so that's why she cheated on and left her first husband, that's why she has run away from every relationship she has ever had and why she had this affair while married to me, her second husband. Oh okay, my bad, I guess she does know how to have a good relationship!

So here's something I've been thinking about. I do buy into the emotional needs and love bank and all that stuff. But I can't figure something out. This OM continually built WW up and then knocked her down. He was emotionally and physically abusive and controlling. Wouldn't this abuse make huge withdrawals from the love bank? Wouldn't having to call the police on him and worry about your kids safety pretty much drain whatever was in the lovebank to almost nothing? I can't seem to get my head around that. Any thoughts or explanations?

The abuse does make HUGE withdrawals in her love bank. However, the love bank was brimming with money!! But is running very, very low right now.

Please stop talking to her about MB. She can't hear a thing you say and it only pushes her away. It is like lecturing a falling down drunk on the evils of drinking!

More later, work calls.....

I know I was wrong to talk about any of the concepts from MB. I first mentioned it a week and a half ago when things seemed to be moving in a positive direction. And then the other day I emailed just a small bit about withdrawal, trying to explain why I was adament about NC. But you are right she's not anywhere near ready to hear any of that and it really just ends up being a LB at this point.

I read through the first 4 chapters or so of "Surviving an Affair" last night. Was actually a bit scared that wife would see it, she wants nothing to do with any of that type of thing right now. Because of course she knows everything and couldn't possibly learn something from a concept that has helped countless couples.

I was warned that things were going to get messy and sure enough here we go. And NC doesn't even really start until tomorrow. It's either going to be a long road ahead with WW, or a very short one without.

FPF, you can leave the book lying around!

CAUTION! On leaving MB materials lying around or otherwise exposing an active wayward:

As a WW, I thought the MB principals made perfect sense. And I used them on OM. So while BH was Plan A'ing me....I Plan A'd OM.

Yes I can leave the book laying around. In fact I didn't bother to hide it last night, was just a bit weary of what the WW would think when seeing it.

I'm not really concerned with WW using it on OM. She has expressed how she already knows everything. Right now she has made the decision to not go back to OM and stay and work on marriage. The problem is she's not at all happy about that and blames me for what she considers trapping her into staying.

Wondering if she'll ever get beyond that and really put some effort into reconciliation.

Mel: I emailed the MC counselor again this morning asking her if she had a plan for reconciliation and could she lay it out for me. Probably won't get a response until this evening.

Could really stand to hear from someone who was in my wife's position. A FWS who felt they had met their soul mate and the love of their life in the OM, who hated and resented the BS saying they never loved them and regretted ever getting married, who felt forced or trapped into working on reconciliation with no intention of going through stuff like MB, and yet finally did reconcile and is very happy and in love with BS now.

Any of those people out there?

Do NOT leave your marriage saving materials lying around.

It will cause extreme predjudice towards MB for your wife.
She will resent and disregard anything they have to say later when it comes to recovery time.

Save it for when she is somewhat normal again!

Okay, I'll take your word for it. Book gets put away each night when I done reading.

I'm just wondering if she will ever be somewhat normal again!

ROFL!! You devil! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

PF, your wife is a CLASSIC, TYPICAL wayward that we see on here every day. She is the RULE, rather than the exception. We have many marriages here that have fully recovered. The MB plan is the best plan to bring about reconciliation.