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medc #2018117 02/01/08 06:48 PM
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Frozen,

Patriot's choice of post was odd to me, at the time, talking of consequences and punishment as if they are one and the same.

First, you are totally sane and together, lady, let no one convince you otherwise.

I'm so sorry for your continued pain this far into recovery. I have to agree that it is time that your son know the truth. I'm sure it will complete a picture for him, as he probably is already aware of the tension in the home.

As for college, start looking at scholarships, grants and loans. Also, after telling your son, discuss the real possibility that his education may have to be completed in another school, maybe a state school, where tuition is lower.

By no means should your son NOT go to school; you'll just have to be more crafty. Where there's a will, well, you know the rest.


Me-BS-38
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Divorced April 2009
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MEDC - Froz & Pat went to a MB weekend and have done some counselling with Dr Harley.

We have one side of the story outlined here and I think it would be prudent to seek Dr Harley's advice before jumping to lawyers.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
frozen1229 #2018119 02/01/08 07:58 PM
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Quote:

He said that he hid it from me not because he was doing anything wrong, but because he didn't trust my judgment not to overreact.





You're kidding, right?

What happened to POJA?

sheesh!

Pepperband #2018120 02/01/08 08:02 PM
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(((frozen))) I am around on email anytime you need to talk.


Faith

me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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{{{{Frozen}}}}

I am so sorry to hear this. My prayers are with you.

You've grown so much in the last three years. You'll get through this. Don't panic.

And don't allow him to push the blame onto you. Sheesh!

Pat has issues he needs to work out. He's been told that many times.

TA


"Integrity is telling myself the truth. And honesty is telling the truth to other people." - Spencer Johnson
bigkahuna #2018122 02/01/08 08:29 PM
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I hear you BK. Froz is able to decide what she wants to do. IMHO...a WS (or FWS) does not have the luxury of ever being able to get a pass on lying again. Three years post A and after having completed a MB weekend, Pat would know how hurtful lies would be...yet he lies anyway. I wouldn't fault Froz for calling the Harley's in this case...but I would consult with a lawyer first and foremost. As I said, that's me. I'd much rather be divorced than deal with lies from a FWS...which if he is lying he hasn't really earned the F IMHO.

medc #2018123 02/01/08 08:50 PM
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((((((((((Froz))))))))))


BW(me)
DDay EA 4/05
DDay PA 6/05
In recovery
MicheleG #2018124 02/01/08 09:03 PM
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Quote:

He said that he hid it from me not because he was doing anything wrong, but because he didn't trust my judgment not to overreact.




If this is true, this should be in the WS-Speak Hall of Fame (Shame), with extra points for selfishness from somebody who has BEEN TO AN MB WEEKEND and who has BEEN READING AND POSTING ON MB for YEARS and absolutely knows better.


Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
Mulan #2018125 02/01/08 09:04 PM
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exactly!

medc #2018126 02/01/08 11:27 PM
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MEDC ~ Dr Harley has already involved on an ongoing basis and aware of this new relevation of Pat's - and in fact took steps today to provide Froz and Pat more support. I am confident that Froz will get good advice on what she needs to do next. SH certainly had no problem telling me to get a divorce - I am sure they will do the same with Froz if that's what should happen. But right now, it is not good for her to make life altering choices on her own while she is in extreme distress.


~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
BrambleRose #2018127 02/02/08 01:06 AM
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Froz, I am very, very sorry.

Take some time, talk with Dr. Harley. BR is right...you shouldn't make decisions while you are in such deep pain right now.


"Your actions are so loud that I can't hear a word you're saying!"

BW M 44 yrs to still-foggy but now-faithful WH. What/how I post=my biz. Report any perceived violations to the Mods.
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BR...IMHO, it is up to Froz, not Dr. H to decide when that should happen.
This is an opinion board. I offered my opinion. No one here is "right." There is a different way of looking at things. It doesn't matter WHO the coach is to me...if I am still being lied to 3 years post d-day..it would be a lawyer that I was speaking to. Sometimes fear and pain can be wonderful motivators to get us to act. Froz may be hurt and upset...but that doesn't mean she isn't thinking clearly.

medc #2018129 02/02/08 09:07 AM
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I don't know how to tell if I'm thinking clearly or not. I know that I am really, really scared. I'm scared to stay and I'm scared to leave, too.



I have a difficult time trusting my perception. So when someone tells me that I must just be “seeing this wrong” (as Patriot often does), or that “we only have one side of the story” (implying that I’m either making it up or that I’m somehow mistaken) it makes it all the more difficult for me not to allow the hurtful behavior.

BK, you have indicated to me on numerous occasions that there is some sort of issue with trusting either my word or my perception. I can’t for the life of me figure out why, as I am an extremely straightforward and honest person.

Frankly, it’s insulting. I don’t know of another BS who posts about some fog speak that their spouse is engaging in (such as blaming the BS) that is met with responses that have the tone of “maybe he’s right”.

No matter, it isn’t helpful and yours and a few others who have bought into this have only succeeded in enabling. So I am requesting that you or anyone else who wants to tell me that I’m crazy or that it is my fault, please refrain from posting to me.

I have a history of relationships with abusive men and it is all too easy for me to fall back in to the dangerous mindset that it is my fault.

MEDC,

We bought the house before we were married, so it is in Patriot’s name only. We both work. I own a small business and the majority of what I earn I contribute to the household finances. If I stop contributing as much as I can, I am afraid that I would be being unfair. If I were to use the household finances to leave, I am afraid he would think that I am trying to steal his money. He has a fear of being raked over the coals by women. I don’t want to make him angry because I have worked really hard to learn how to stop LB’s.

Mimi,

Quote:

What was the nature of his conversations with this woman?




First, he said only business-related things. Now he says sometimes she would talk about problems in her marriage and he would just listen but that he never talked about our marriage.

Quote:

How did you find out?




I begged him to tell me any secrets he is hiding from me about the past.

Personally, I feel almost positive that there is more. One reason for this is that there always IS more. Another is that there are other red flags with this particular former co-worker. One of them being that at that time, I had access to his work e-mail and I noticed one day that some e-mails from her that were in his inbox had suddenly disappeared.

When I asked him about it, he said that he had to move them because…something about the e-mails from her section having large attachments and there being limits on his inbox. He told Dr. Harley that he was uncaring and did not change it, which is confusing to me.

There are other reasons, but it would take a long time to explain.

SMB, MEDC, Mimi, Mel, Queenies, Resonance, Fox, SL, FF, TA, Michele, LC…thank you for your guidance and support.

Thank the Lord for BR.

I haven’t posted a lot about our situation in a long time, partly due to the reasons I mentioned in the beginning of this post and partly due to the fact that Patriot also posts here. It often seems like when I post, Patriot will post in defense and portray me as the villain and himself as a victim. It seems to me that he is pretty skilled at garnering sympathy because often times people believe him.

frozen1229 #2018130 02/02/08 09:21 AM
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Quote:

It seems to me that he is pretty skilled at garnering sympathy because often times people believe him.




Not me. I don't respect anyone...anyone that abuses the trust that a loved one has placed in them. Liars lie.

medc #2018131 02/02/08 09:22 AM
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BTW...I would also strongly suggest a polygraph if you are to stay with this "man."

frozen1229 #2018132 02/02/08 09:37 AM
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Froz,

I have kept up on your story.

Something you might want to consider is that Patriot is morally immature - he likes to walk on the edge and it builds his ego to have a woman confide in him without considering that this is dangerous to his marriage and everything he holds dear. In that immature state, his biggest concern is losing financially instead of losing you and your son.

He thinks consequences are important to preventing relapse - sorry - alcoholics get tons of consequences, and until they grasp the conscience and character to seek out a power greater than themselves, their fate is institutions, jails and death. For adulterers, until they set their egos aside and "grow up", and recognize they are not a power unto themselves, their fate is broken relationships, financial devastation, followed by broken relationships and financial devastation. In some cases, where their ego can't handle another broken relationship, they go off the deep end and wind up in jail, for domestic violence or worse.

I'd be happy to give you some off the board support so that you have a choice in the relationship. I had a sponsor who was 6 mo preg when she found out her husband was cheating on her "again" for the 8th time - this time with the same woman he had cheated on her the first time. She had had enough but she wasn't in a position to leave.

BTW, - my sponsor's still married to her husband, who is no longer cheating, and who has transformed into an adult with conscience and character. I'd love to share what I learned for myself from her example.


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
KaylaAndy #2018133 02/02/08 10:33 AM
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Quote:

I'd love to share what I learned for myself from her example.






Kayla:

Would you be willing to share HERE so WE can profit from what you have learned?


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
frozen1229 #2018134 02/02/08 10:49 AM
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I come from an EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE background..long story..but, like you, I deal with FEAR and that PERCEPTION ISSUE alot...then add on the BETRAYAL by my HUSBAND with him full well knowing what I had been through in my life..

I've come to learn that MY PERCEPTION IS MY REALITY. MY PERCEPTION is MY TRUTH. I don't QUESTION myself on MY PERCEPTIONS. With my H, the key is POJA. I say: "This is the way I see it. Basically, IT IS WHAT IT IS. This is where I am coming from". The other key is OPENNESS and HONESTY, for you to state YOUR TRUTH and for him to state HIS. THE MAJOR PROBLEM seems to be Pat's DISHONESTY..NOT YOUR PERCEPTIONS.


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #2018135 02/02/08 11:07 AM
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I would, except that the nature of this conflict has control and gaslighting mixed into it.

Patriot does not need to know what Froz is doing to take care of herself. It's not that what I would tell her would hurt him financially or emotionally - it would only focus on empowering her. But he would definitely take action to interfere with any developing empowerment, because it would mean he loses control. Froz's shares about what's stopping her from leaving makes it very clear that Patriot has this control, knows he has the control, has contributed to Froz's belief that he has control, - and thus would resent and do everything he could to stop any possible change in this dynamic.

Some time in the future, I'm sure you will see me share it - just not now when it's critical for Froz to gain some control over her own life.


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
KaylaAndy #2018136 02/02/08 11:11 AM
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Quote:

Some time in the future, I'm sure you will see me share it - just not now when it's critical for Froz to gain some control over her own life.






GOTCHA!!


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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