I'll try to do the quick summary here. My wife and I just got divorced, despite the fact that we remain very good friends. She was just feeling very trapped in the marriage and in other ways in life. I'm her 2nd husband, and she's been married or in a serious relationship since she was 18, and she just turned 30 and I think realized that she didn't know herself except as a part of someone else. I get all of that, and that's why, painful as this is, I realize that this is the best thing for us now. This certainly isn't the only issue between us, as we both have had some behaviors that have brought this about, too. One of the key ones is that she has some serious growing up to do. From my standpoint, I need to be more trusting and caring, and act from emotion instead of logic more of the time. And when I say "I need", I mean it as "this will make me a better person", not that I'm a bad one now. However, lets just say that my behaviors and some frustrations were definitely part of pushing us apart.

And, as I said, we remain good friends, and I get the impression that she's beginning to rethink the decision. She hasn't said that, its just what I get from some of her behaviors. For my part, I still love her, and would be happy to get back to where we are. I am very committed to doing a lot of work on myself (heck, that's why I'm here). The thing is, I believe we need to take a few, or maybe a lot, of steps backwards. We could get back together tomorrow and it wouldn't solve the underlying issues. I'm just not sure how to go about this. This is all new ground to me, so I'm asking for suggestions/support. Should we not even consider it for several months, should we just start with a few casual dates and see where it goes? Should we see other people so we can see if we really were the right person for one another?

There's one big twist to this. She and I still share the house, even though she gave us rights to it in the divorce. Heck, we are still sharing the master bedroom. We aren't having sex (not that this is new, it was one of the issues that led to a lot of my frustrations) and from an economic standpoint, its cheaper than me paying for an apartment for her, which is what I have to do under the divorce agreement. I don't think we can do this indefinitely, whether we are getting back together or not. I think it will stunt our development. I'm not sure how to really push her out, though, as she's emotionally very fragile right now, and I don't want to trigger any really negative reactions (my ex is very depressed and has had a suicide attempt in the past).

So, its a complicated situation. I know that if she ever deals with her issues, she is an amazing woman, and I still love her. I am committed to dealing with my issues, not just because she's worth it to me (she is), because I think they will make me a better man. I plan to get counseling for myself, and before she and I make any moves to getting back together, I think we should have couples counseling. I think she needs individual counseling, however she's resistant to it.

Okay, enough rambling. As I said, any suggestions on how to proceed will be greatly appreciated. And I may just be reading into her reactions because its what its what I want to have happen, and my gut tells me we still have a chance at a happy future.

I wish you the best of luck and my prays. If you have not studied Plan A and B that is where I would start. Living together Plan A. Move her out Plan B. Hopefully, somebody has an opinion on Plan B living together. I think you have some risk moving her out. The 18 - 30 in a steady relationship of some kind. Opportunity for her to fill the void again with someone else. That sounds like the pattern.

Counseling for you would be a good start. Her better. Might try the monkey see - monkey do apporach. Gently, use it as setting an example. With her depression she needs to see a doctor soon and consider anti-depresents.

Your age, and any children?

This is all IMO. Still not sure how this is working for me. But I wake up everyday trying.

I'm not familiar with Plan A and Plan B. Where do I get info on this.

She is very against taking anti-depressants. She feels (from prior experience with them) that they kill her creativity and that is an important part of her. Even without them, I think therapy would help her. She says "I have my friends there for me", and even her friends have told her that she needs more help. They just aren't trained professionals.

As for her moving out, we've both expressed that it may be best for us to see other people just to see if there is a better fit for us out there. It may be that we are fated to be just good friends, however my gut tells me otherwise. And, as tough as it would be, if she was ultimately going to be happier with someone else, wouldn't I be kind of a jerk for holding her back from that?

No kids, I'm 46. And no, I wasn't the guy around at 18. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> We met a couple years later, and she was the one pursuing me, because I frankly didn't think a 21 year old would be interested in me.

She almost surely pursued you because she wanted a father figure to marry. Many troubled girls do that, for a wide range of reasons. You are wise to see that she needs to be on her own and to grow up. I have never been on my own, went from father to big brother raising me to fiance to husband, always letting the man tell me how to think, dress, act, etc. When I was 31, I went on a business trip and was truly on my own for the first time in my life! I sat down on the hotel bed, and simply couldn't move, because I had never ever had to think for myself or at least not without considering how it affected other people. I finally got up and went to the restaurant, but I was terrified!

Best advice? Try being friends. See her as her friends would see her. Only talk about friend stuff. Look up information about counseling, and give it to her. Tell her you are going just to have someone to talk to who is trained to figure out how to make you happier. And she could too.

Move out of the same bedroom. She will never detach if you don't.

And please don't start dating other people, not for a long while, at least 6 months. Especially her. If she sees you doing it, she'll want to do it too, so please consider being a good role model for her. She desperately needs to learn to like herself as her own person, having nothing to do with whether another person likes her. Number one priority for her, IMO. And that means no dating. See if you can facilitate that.

If you start reading all the articles here, like on the links to the right, you'll find out about plan A and B, and all the other stuff.

Thanks for the information. I realize that I am in no shape to be dating anyone right now. Frankly, I'm too attached to her. We are definitely still friends, its just hard to detach the friendship from the marriage side of things. At my heart I realize the bedroom thing has to change, because its keeping us from being independent of each other. And I don't want to give up my nice bed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I mean, I don't want to reward her/punish myself for her deciding we had to split. I suspect that sooner or later I'll just have to draw the line and tell her she has to move down to the spare room (there is a bed there, its not like I'd make her sleep on the couch or floor).

I don't know that she wanted a father figure so much as she wanted someone to care. Her life is run by an immense fear of abandonment. To a great extent, being on her own terrifies her. I realize I can help her with that as a friend, and she really does need counseling.

I guess the one thing that bugs me is whether its even realistic to think about us rebuilding our relationship. I can get by with no dating and just being friends for a while. And, as I'm sure you can tell, I'd be very interested in us becoming a couple again (assuming she starts to get her life in order). So, what's the time frame on starting that? Six months? A year? Or just a "Joshua, you big dummy, you'll know if/when the time is right?"

If this has been going on since she was 18 or 20, and she has a fear of abandonment, yeah, she wanted a father figure. Which may be different from what you're thinking. I recommend doing some reading. There are tons of books out there on girls with problems, and how they look for a support structure (the father figure). Did she have a bad father situation? Left, abused, abandoned, missing during her teen years?

Anyway, that's her issue, not yours. You may have to start nudging her out the door, give her more and more responsibility for her own stuff, pull away. Definitely move her to the other room, for starters.

You might consider setting a timeframe on her moving out, give her a goal to work toward, of maybe 6 months. In the meantime, you can start working on the MB principles, to become more attractive to her. But don't take her back if she's not improving herself, cos she'll just repeat it all later, or else show different, more destructive traits like having an affair or starting an addiction.

Her parents split early, I'm not sure what age. She stayed with her mom. She has told me her dad was a brilliant man, until he got into drugs, which ultimately killed him young (he died back in 2000 or 2001). So, yeah, I can see the need for the father figure, and for stability. She was in foster homes for several years in her teens. Her first marriage lasted about year. So, these issues are huge. I have asked her about abuse in the past, she has strongly denied that there was ever any abuse.

I will begin work on moving her out, and I 100% agree that if she is not willing to do work on herself, then its pointless to even consider any sort of relationship, because we'll just find ourselves back where we started. I will read up on the MB principles, maybe invest in a book or two. I also realize that working some of these principles will make me more attractive in general, so if there is no future with her, it will improve my chances with others. I think that fact that she has seen that I am serious about working on my character issues is why she's beginning to rethink her actions. I love her enough to wait for her to get her act together, and if she's not going to do that, then I realize I can only love her as a friend.

Dr. Harley wrote a book called "Surviving an affair". The affair part doesn't appear to be your problem. But the techniques related to communicating with Plan A & B may be useful. I just pulled it off my shelf. I have read over dozen books from the leading experts in christian marriage principles and dealing with affairs over the last two years. Many of them several times. I may get in trouble for this. My top three relationship books (the ones I give my friends before they get married).

Dr. Harley's "His need, Her needs" (My ex got this one the divorce it appears - not on my shelf)
Gary Chapman "The Five Love Languages" (pulled this one off the shelf this afternoon to reread for I think the 4th or 5th time).
Dr. Emerson Eggerichs "Love & Respect".

Dating is a scary proposition if you are trying to win your ex's heart back. I am dealing with the same issue.

My ex has been off and on antidepressents and I took them once. Your ex is right, it makes you more neutral. No highs, but no lows. If no go on the antidepressents. She needs counseling. Good luck there. I spent two years trying to get my ex into counseling, against her will. We are talking about it now. Each of us going to individual counseling. Go back to my orginal post that is still my advice monkey see - monkey do apporach.

Use the Love Bank and communicate in her top 2 love languages and see where it gets you. Time frame I don't know. Build on what works and dump what doesn't. Remember, that if it doen't work today, you may need to come back to it later and try again. Especially, if it something that should have worked. Something internally or externally may have blocked it working the first time.

Let me say this about the possibility of an affair. Back in 2004, she had a one-night stand with an old boyfriend. She was actually ready to leave me for him, and the day after he basically told her "Oh, I don't know why I did that, I'm actually really involved with someone else." This was an out of town thing and when she came home (in tears), I didn't get it. We got back to the house and she took a bunch of pills and confessed. She said she really expected me to let her lay there and die, which broke my heart and also showed me how much she was hurting. Obviously I didn't let that happen, I rushed her to the emergency room, and stayed with her until she was discharged. People thought I was nuts for taking her back after this, and from my stand point, I knew it was something she did because of how bad she was hurting and how depressed she was, and that I was a contributing factor to it. How do you kick someone out who just tried to kill herself? Isn't that just inviting her to finish the job? It was at this point where she had some counseling and was on the anti-depressants. While I did a lot to be more attentive and caring, the fact that she would not look for work and that we still had intimacy and trust issues eventually led to a lot of resentment on this point, and to her withdrawing from me, which of course led to further resentment and frustration, which brought us where we are now.

As for an affair now, there is a guy in another state with whom she has grown friendly. I have always thought he was interested in her, she has always said he's a friend. Now, I have met this guy, and in person he's always been very nice to me, and given me no indication of anything going on. I realize that may just make me a sucker, and I realize that I have to either trust her or not. After all the damage from the 1st affair, trust has been difficult, so I take her at her word here. That being said, when checking a phone bill a few weeks ago (I was wondering why it was so high, not spying), I noticed that just before she asked for the divorce, there were literally over 300 text messages back and forth between them. I confronted her about this (probably a bad move, and nothing I can do about that now) and again she insisted they were just friends, and that he was at least there for her these days and cared about her emotionally. I also know that when she cries (which can be a lot), its easier for her to send text messages than actually talk to someone, and given her abandonment issues, the decision to ask for the divorce must have been a killer. Also, the fact that she consider herself "damaged" and that "no man will want her" and that she "hates sex" (all her words, not mind) make her feel unworthy of a relationship now. If there is an affair, I think it is emotional only. Which, I realize can be just as bad. And, I also realize that if its happened, its happened. There's nothing I can do about the past, only improve the future. If she has feelings for this guy, then I can't tell her not to have feelings. I can only put myself into a position where her feelings for me are stronger.

There's a part 2 to this guy, too. After she asked me for the divorce, the 300 text messages pretty much petered off. They still text back and forth a couple of times a week, and talk on the phone occasionally. She actually went out to see him and some friends last weekend, because he's working on helping her get into a school in his state. Does that hurt? Yeah, because despite her protestations, I don't know what's going on with them and have been burnt once before. However, given that we're divorced, its not like I can tell her not to do this. And, again, my gut does say there is nothing going on past friendship...at this point.

In the past week, she's done some things that indicate she sees I'm sincere about making changes. She has an online journal, and she recently posted along the lines of "I've realized that maybe my life doesn't need a 180 degree change, maybe just 145 or 160 degrees." Now, a big part of that is her work dissatisfaction (which is also a HUGE part of her depression at this point) and I can read anything else I want into the statement. She is currently in Mexico for work, and I took her to the airport the other day, and before I left she gave me this huge hug. I only point it out because when I would normally take her, there would be a brief embrace and a brief peck, and that was it (she's not big on PDAs). It struck me as odd, and it was all I could do not to tell her I loved her as I left. I didn't say that because I know it makes her uncomfortable at this point, and she knows I love her, and I realize that at this point, actions are more important than words anyway. She called me the next day from Mexico, saying 'I really need a lifeline right now.' She has been sending me text messages frequently throughout the weekend. And, yes, I checked (our phones are still on a joint account), and while she has sent a couple to the other guy, I win by a long shot in quantity. She has also sent to other friends, and she has always had male as well as female friends, so while it riles me to see her sending anything to him, its something I have to accept. I have been very supportive in my replies, definitely attempting to satisfy her emotional needs with them, even asking female friends the appropriate response. Hey, I recognize I wasn't good at the emotional response a lot, so I'm not afraid to ask for help.

So, these are little things. I could be reading way too much into them (one of my faults is that I over analyze things) and I choose to interpret them as progress. I just read the "Rocks in a River" analogy that someone posted in another thread, and all I can do is keep tossing in those rocks and see what happens. I'm also aware that this is not going to be an overnight change, and that it took time to break down the relationship, its going to take time to build it back up.

I am going to start reading a lot of the site today, do the questionnaires, too. I don't know how to approach her about the questionnaires, because we are divorced now, and I don't know if its appropriate, and I don't want her to feel like I'm putting pressure on her to restart the relationship. While even from the beginning she has said that she is open to the possibility of there being something for us down the road, she repeatedly says "Don't put that pressure on me", meaning "Don't make me your only possible target, that's not fair to either of us." I get that, and frankly that's why I talked about dating other people and thinking that she should, too. If there really is that strong a bond between us, we would see that others aren't appropriate for us. However, that conflicts with some other advice I was given here, so I'm not so sure any more.

I know I'm writing a lot, and its because I'm in totally unknown territory here, and have no idea how to proceed. What I do know is that I still love her, that I'm obviously still in love with her, and that she still loves me (although I'd be harder pressed to say that she's still in love with me) and that when we work well together, we work exceptionally well, and that, in my mind, at least, if we both do this work on ourselves, we can get back to where we were. Maybe I'm deluding myself, and I'm not ready to say that yet.

Thanks again for all the feedback.

Work on being friends. She needs to feel that you're at the same level as her. With the age difference, she probably defers to you a bit, whether she even knows she's doing it. Get down to her level and let her start being O&H with you about everything in her life. Talk, talk, talk. Or text, text, text. Become her friend.

As for the other guy, sure there could be something going on, but I'll tell you a secret about women. Some of us are all 'girl' and wouldn't tell a secret to a man to save our lives. Others of us don't trust females, and are far more comfortable being friends with males. I was like that, and my D17's three best friends are all male. They text all the time. It's comfortable. And they don't stab you in the back, like females do.

That's why I suggest becoming a better friend, which she's clearly comfortable with.

Now, given her background, I would find every way I could think of to convince her how much happier she'd be going into real, serious therapy. She's got way too much baggage to be able to deal with it all on her own. Find magazine or research articles - short and easy to read, not so much 'work' as a book - that discuss how what she's been through directly affect today's actions and her potential for happiness. Give her the articles, occasionally, "I thought of you when I read this" or "I thought this might make sense to you."

In that same vein, tell her you'd like to fill out the questionnaires together, just for kicks, and to see from a clinical perspective, what went wrong with the R. So that the next one won't. That way, you're not saying you're doing it to get her back, but because you want to improve yourself, and you can't do that without the help from learning more about her and what she wanted in the M. It might also make you look more attractive to her.

Let me add a couple of things to the already long post. As for the OM, she has said "If he asked me out, I would probably say 'yes'", which also lends some credence to her statement that nothing is going on except an emotional affair at this point. Is it even correct to call it an affair? I dunno.

Anyway, while reading one of Dr. Harley's responses, I read something that gave me a degree of comfort.


I realize that she's only really seen this guy when she's in a very isolated mode, and when she's in a mode of comparing him to me. He's been a bit of the 'white knight' to her, I'm sure. I've always believed that she would eventually find out he's just as flawed as the rest of us, and the statement above reinforces that. Also, short of her flying out to see him on a regular basis, I am fairly certain that she wouldn't be moving to his state before the summer at the earliest, as she's already enrolled in spring classes here and the semester has started, and finishing her school is a big priority to her. If nothing else, it gives me "home field advantage" for several months while I work on myself.

Catperson - You were posting your response, I was posting my update. Thanks for the feedback. The idea about doing the questionnaires "just for fun" is interesting. I don't want to hit her with it right after she gets back from Mexico, and soon would be a good idea. She'll look at it suspiciously, and maybe won't do hers, and maybe the fact that I'll do mine anyway will again show her I'm serious about making changes. I was reading the section on Withdrawal, and I realize that this isn't going to be easy. And I'd be happy to get back to Conflict. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You're right about her deferring to me. One of the big things prompting this is that she doesn't feel like she has an identity of her own, she's just defined by/a shadow of me, despite her personal successes. That's another reason I don't want to rush into restarting anything, because that would hold her back from her self-realization. I've said to several people that most of the Fergie song "Big Girls Don't Cry" pretty much describes her life (the first verse, not so much).

On a mostly unrelated note, your nickname makes me chuckle. I am definitely a dog person, yet when she moved in with me, she brought 2 cats (one we eventually had to get rid of, he didn't socialize well with the others) and somehow we're up to 5 now! Well, technically, I'm up to 5. She thinks that with concentrating on school she wouldn't be able to take care of them, and had suggesting giving them away, knowing that I am not a big cat person. But they are our/my babies, and I wouldn't just give them away, so they will always have a happy home here (certain days I might change that answer, but most of the time they are good).

Wow, I thought I was bad with 3 cats! I'll never have this many again. But I know how it is. My SIL was a thorough dog person, and now she has 4 or 5 cats. We'll take over the world, I say!

About the questionnaires. I recommend asking her to do them with you - as friends. Not as potential lovers. Tell her that you want to learn more about what went wrong, because if you ever (make sure you don't say 'when') get in another relationship, you don't want to cause any problems. That way, you look good for wanting to improve yourself, you aren't telling her that you're coming after her, and you aren't telling her you're looking for anyone else though. Plus it may make her feel good to get to help YOU for a change, instead of you being the older, more mature, more established, smarter one.

This is what I mean by father figure. She's not consciously thinking of you as her dad; just subconsciously mistrusting her own ability to have a healthy life of her own, therefore, she needs a grounded adult to keep telling her what to do. So now that she's older, she naturally has to start chafing at this. It's just what people do.

I think she would appreciate you immensely if you can help her investigate all this, with articles and stuff, so that she can understand that psychologically speaking, she's following all the pre-determined steps that experts say she would follow, given her background.

For instance, my dad left when I was 12. All the books will tell you that a girl in my situation will start becoming promiscuous, in an attempt to gain approval from a male - any male - to make up for not having my father tell me he's proud of me, and to make for him not showing me how happy healthy men/fathers behave. Because of that, I searched out males who treat me badly, just as my father did. Now, I didn't know any of that at the time, but just as though someone had given me a script, I went through all the motions. The only reason I didn't go into drugs as well is that I couldn't afford them!

What I'm saying is, all the decades of psychological research have come up with expected reactions to bad things in childhood. There are many red flags in your ex's past. And the research can show her that who she has become was preprogrammed, so to speak, because of those flags. So there's no reason for her to hate herself or not trust herself - she really didn't have a choice! BUT that doesn't mean she can't improve herself. Just as all the research predicted how she would turn out (father figure, wanting to spread her wings, etc.), it also has solutions for it all. THAT is what I wish you could get across to her somehow. And if you can do that as her friend, interested in her whether she comes back to you or not, it makes you the most likely person she will gravitate toward when she finally does get it all worked out.

I think Cat is right on. Think about what girls want from their fathers.

Unconditional love -- be loving(in a friendly way) with no expectation in return. it will build your character even if it does nothing else.

Approval -- find the good in whatever she does...build her up...if she does poorly at something...still focus on her effort and tell her we all make mistakes but you have faith in her and know that she will eventually get it right. Let her know when you are proud of her accomplishments.

Security -- esp imp re the living situation; set some boundaries, but reassure her. The separate room is good I think. You both need space to be able to hear yourselves think. Just have an honest conversation with her tell her you think its best for both of you. Tell her you want her to feel secure and you are not going to do anything to hurt her that way. I.E. that you will help her be secure(re having a roof over her head etc).

Acceptance--accept her as she is and let her know that you do. Remind yourself of all the reasons you fell in love with her and find ways to show/tell her you admire these things about her in a non-romantic way.

You cannot be her father. You can provide her the stability of a father that she never had until she learns to give herself that stability. Think about the push/pull of a parent/child relationship. The child from the minute they can walk wants to run out into the world and separate from the parent to become who they are. But they also want to know that if they get scared or if it gets to hard they can run back to the safety of Mom/Dad and rest, get comfort, reassurance, and finally encouragement to run back out again.

Be aware, that anyone with abandonment issues believes that the people they love and trust will abandon them. If that doesnt happen and they have not resolved the issue within themselves they will "make" you abandon them to prove themselves right. When she does things to push you away recognize that for what it is and refuse to be pushed. If you stop dancing to her music, she will eventually change her tune.

She needs therapy. But, I agree for now get your own. If you are comfortable, tell her casually as a friend what comes up in yours. Ex: My therapist said blah blah. What do you think?

Antidepressants are a godsend for many but they arent the only way. I recommend a book called "Feeling Good" author Goodwin I think. About Cognitive Therapy and how our thoughts keep us depressed. Read it and leave it laying around for her unless you think she would read it if you suggest it.

Things that help depression....activity(give her reasons to get up and moving); humor/laughter....funny movies, light conversation, whatever makes her smile. thinking positive...whenever she is negative shes probably dwelling on some irrational feeling/belief....acknowledge her feeling but gently point out the rational...dont argue it, just point it out. Sunshine....get her outdoors. Healthy diet...set the example. No alchohol...dont encourage it by drinking around her. Lots of other stuff Im sure you can find in any book on depression.

Good luck. Work on yourself, be loving to her, and things will start to fall into place. If you change/grow, she will have no choice but to change how she deals with you. Just be aware that she may initially be frustrated and angry that you arent staying the same and push your buttons to try to make you revert back to the you she is comfortable with.

You had a lot of good things to say, and this was very on point. To some extent, she's been been pushing me away since shortly after we became serious. However, I've always recognized it for what it was and wasn't going to let her programs have their way with her. I'm sure at some level that seriously messed with her subconscious (i.e., "He's supposed to leave, but he doesn't'). That's why I'm actually impressed that she got up the courage/ability to actually pull the trigger (I suspect OM was her key support system during it). I came close several times, and had to remind myself of what I was fighting and back down. That being said, my frustration did get the better of me on more than a couple occasions, and I did and said things that helped push her away. In no way to I attribute our situation 100% to her. As I've said, this time will be good for me to work on myself, too.


Oddly enough, this work thing in Mexico is (hopefully) going to be very good for her. Her messages to me and her online posts indicate she's having a great time. She's seen as a celebrity there (in her field), has people showing her admiration and respect, is out at parties, has been taken on tours, and just seems to be in touch with the amazing person with whom I fell in love 9 years ago. It actually almost brings me to tears to read some of her posts, just to know that that person is still inside her, and just needs to right environment to come out for good. The downside is she has to fly back with her business partner, who is by far the most toxic person in her life. When she gets back, I am going to work with her to help get her out of the business (we've already discussed this). That could be a downer. So, when I meet her at the airport, its going to be all smiles and tell me about the great times you had.

We have a housemate (he's gay, what more could I ask?..no threat there...lol) who kind of questioned why I bought her some flowers recently with everything that's going on. Well, my business partner pointed out to me "Whether she gives you a hug or a kiss or just a smile, isn't it worth the ten bucks?" I think this is very true, and before I pick her up at the airport I'm going to make sure there is a fresh bouquet here for when she gets home.

Any suggestions on Valentine's Day? Obviously nothing romantic, and I was thinking of just getting her a card (not a particularly romantic one). She's actually going to be out of town for another convention on V-Day. I'm not sure if she leaves on the 13th or 14th. I was thinking of just slipping the card into her luggage. Good move or bad?

I'll be honest...this whole thing terrifies me. The worst thing I think would be to try and fail at this. What terrifies me most, though, is losing her out of my life forever. She insists that will never happen ("unless you push me away") and if we move on to other people, no matter how close we are, it will never be the same. I know I just have to push through my fear to make this happen, and I've done that in the past, although support never hurts. I am truly grateful for the feedback I am getting here.

I bought "His Needs, Her Needs" a few minutes ago. It was actually the only one of Dr. Harley's books that the Barnes & Noble had in stock. I'll start reading it later today.

For whatever reason, this afternoon the OM has been on my mind/bugging me a lot. Probably because I was writing so much about it. How do I keep that from bugging me. Like I said, I know she's a free agent now, and more likely than not, its an EA if anything, and just knowing that she ran to someone else is eating me up. I'm doing my best to focus on not worrying about the past, and just concentrating on making a better future, and its tougher than I could ever imagine.

Would it help to disassociate yourself from the equation? To look at it not as about you, but about her? It's not that she's rejecting you, just that she wants to be selfish about herself for now. Sometimes people go through periods they will later be ashamed of, like falling off the wagon.

Yeah, I think that by letting my OCD get in the way, and worrying about how much she talks to him or texts him vs. how much she talks/texts me is only going to lead to madness. I can only control my end of the equation. And if this guy is being a friend to her now, why should I look at that as a bad thing? Doesn't she need friends now, more than ever. I just need to be the best friend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm very depressed about things today (calling a counselor today is a top priority for me. This is really affecting my productivity, my sleep, my energy levels, everything). I got an e-mail from one of her close friends last night (also a friend of mine, just much closer to the ex) that said the following (items in italics have been changed):


Is she right. Am I just deluding myself? I mean, I know that our current relationship is done, that's not a question. And the thought of not being with her long-term or rebuilding something is killing me. Its been so tough not having her here these last 5 nights (possibly our longest separation since we moved in together) that the thought of not having her there ever again makes me wish I was dead. I'm not a suicidal type, and I can't imagine doing anything but going through the motions without her.

I've only read the first 20 or so pages of "His Needs, Her Needs", and already I've seen areas where I could have been different (and where she could have been different) that could have changed where we are now. I know I have it in me to make these changes. She is worth it to me. She is worth everything to me. And I'm so afraid that I've missed my chance and have lost her light forever. I know you say be her friend because that's what she needs now, and I'm okay with that, and I just can't imagine not being with her again in the future. She is so unlike any other woman I've met in my life that it seems anyone else would pale by comparison.

I was listening to the Hoobastank song "Reason" the other night. Most of you probably know it, and for those who don't, it goes as follows:


This song hits me 100%. I don't think its a square peg and round hole. Or if it is, then I just need to shave off the corners of the square so it fits the hole, or I have to shave my corners while she expands the hole (boy, does that sound dirty, but isn't) and we can work again. I just don't know if I'm just chasing a pipe dream or not.

I can't tell you whether to invest the time in something that might not pan out. I can say that I would ignore this message from this 'friend' which sounds to me to be completely worked out between the two of them, to get you off ex's back.

And, yes, get to the C asap.