Just as an update, my WW has moved back home. She has been here about a week. No funny business on this one. I say that with a great deal of caution as I think I have 3 "my WW moved back home threads" Anyway, this time seems different. Perhaps I'm delusional, but it does seem different. She brought the car, the cat, and all her possessions. She called to set up the MC today. Her attitude about things has been great.

However, we've been argueing about things. On the one hand, I'm happy about that because she is not withdrawn or conflict avoiding, but on the other, I'm frustrated because we don't seem to make any progress.

I finally told her that I don't think we should talk about these issues without the help of a professional, and she agreed.

Anyway, she said something to me, about this forum. She said "I can't post there because they all hate me." What struck me was that I didn't bring it up and I was kind of wondering maybe she wants to post here. But then again, maybe she doesn't and just wanted to pre-empt me asking.

The other thing I thought about was hate was a really strong word. She posted as MargieThomas. I've read through the responses she got, and while some were tough, hate seemed a little over the top. If anybody remembers her, do you think the responses were hateful? I don't know, maybe she posted as another screenname.

Anyway, given the tone around here, do people think she should post here? Do people hate her? Part of me thinks it would be a good idea, but part of me thinks it won't help if she is going to get blasted, or she intreprets everything as being blasted.

People don't hate her, they just see through her bullcrap and call her on it. If she is going to try to bullcrap people here, she will likely run into trouble. But if she is honest and sincere in her efforts, she likely won't encounter any problems.

Even so, no one here has special immunity from getting blasted, not you, not me, no one. None of us are that "special." Not even affair VICTIMS are that special and protected.

Is she committed to doing what it takes to repair your marriage this time, rprynne? Or is it another trial run?

I was afraid of the same thing. But my dedication to change and to fix my M overshadowed those fears. Please tell her to come and to embrace ALL that this board has to offer. ML is right, the BSs and the FWSs will see through the fog and will call her on it. But that must be part of her commitment to changing and getting the help she needs from others who have walked in her shoes AND in yours.

Really, who cares if a few people hate her...she will get the help she needs, and THAT is what matters. But I doubt anyone will hate her. As you said, that is a very strong word. I want you to have the wife and marriage you deserve!!

Encourage her to come here and post.

I believe she is committed to doing whatever she can to repair the M for a set period of time and then deciding whether we should continue.

To expand on that, when I say "she can" as opposed to "it takes", I think she has the intent to do whatever it takes, but a fear that she will not be able to do it. I honestly don't know whether people can truly have things in their personality that make it impossible to do something, so...

When I say a set period of time, I don't think she is saying she will do whatever it takes for however long it takes. If things are no better after 3 months, I doubt she will continue. That isn't to say, things have to be perfect, just better.

She concedes that the other times were not "real" attempts.

So she is not committed to doing what it takes to fix the marriage because she has not decided IF she will even continue in the marriage?

So, what is different this time?

Sounds like a renter to me.

rprynne, where would she fall in this spectrum:

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Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carper, replacing the roof, and even doinf some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

I would not phrase it that way, and I can not completely answer for her. She will not stay in a loveless marriage. She will do whatever is advised to create a loving fulfilling M, but if following that advice does not result in a loving M, she will not stay in it.

What is different. Before she concedes that she would not do what was advised. i.e. when told she had to end contact with OM, for anything to work, she said, nonsense, I can stay in contact with OM and still determine if a loving fulfilling M is possible.

Said another way, she refused to follow any of the MB principles. Now she is agreeing to follow the MB princples, but if they don't work, she doesn't want to stay married just for the sake of staying married.

FWIW, I asked SH if this was a problem and he said not at all.


Truthfully, she has some elements of a renter and some of a buyer.

RPryne - it's a total myth that WS's get a hard time here.
The genuine, repentant ones are welcomed with open arms. The entitled ones are met with tough love.

I guarantee Maggie didn't get any more harsh words from anyone here than Resonance did and look at her!

We can smell bullchit a mile away. If she is genuine and honest she will find a lot of support.

Mel - I'm not sure I'm following your line of questions. You know where I'm at on the new turn of events. I've posted about it before.

Is your point that if she isn't a buyer there's no reason to post here?

rprynne, this is very different from buying the car. This is a short term rental where the decision to BUY is contingent upon the car's performance for 3 month. That is entirely a renters agreement. It seems her committment is to not to do what it takes to make the marriage work, but just to see how she "feels" in 3 months. In other words, her committment is to her feelings, not to making you happy.

If you spoke to Steve, he did explain that this is a renters agreement, right?

rprynne, I am not trying to dash your hopes or give you a hard time, but I just hope that you understand this might end the same way as the other times? AND I HOPE I AM WRONG!

oh no, I am not saying that at all. Everything I have said about buyer versus renter is unrelated to her posting here. I only bring that up because I am concerned.

Of course, she can post here if she wants.

I don't think so. She is committed to making me happy, but not if doing that means sacrifice. And I really mean sacrifice.

Right or wrong, she feels that for the first 12 years of our M, she was the giver and I was the taker. That made her feel terrible. So, when considering recovery, she feels that the advise to her is "what you need to do is be a giver." At times, I think to her, recovery equates to just go back to what you were doing in the past, and she knows she wasn't realy happy with that.


Steve did not speak of buyers or renters. I had asked (using different words) does it matter, in terms of chances for recovery, if she is one or the other. He said no.

Frankly, I'm not so sure I'm even a buyer.


I know, and I appreciate it. I am as protected as I can be.

How about a commitment to marriage. A commitment to staying married?

I have only been married 6 months now, and even then you know it is sometimes trying. I feel like I am more a giver than my husband and then when I start to think this way my ugly taker rears it fangs.

Recently after several talks with GB, talks where I realized we had to both change and become less independent, something hit me like a ton of bricks. It was that our commitment HAD to be to our marriage itself.

I realized that what we had to be was committed to staying married, committed to our marriage itself, and this has given me a pretty different mindset.

Being a fan of the MB concepts, I had adopted that "I don't think I can make you happy" or "I don't think he can make me happy" mindset. I say fan of the MB concepts, but the E/N parts of it still have me troubled a bit. As a firm believer in we make ourselves happy and bring that to our R, the making someone else happy, or the someone else making me happy, thing was not something that appeals to me, in the least. So I was starting to think in a way that even I don't believe in.

Might just be that a change in perspective may have a huge impact on the returns/rewards of staying married.

I want to be happy, I want him to be happy, and since we are both committed to the marriage...we will work it out, whatever it is that needs some working out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />