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I suspect that K has not read this thread and does not understand, which would explain his stance.

K, just to bring you up to speed, he is being told to expose to the OW's spouse and the WW's father, who is also the OM's employer.

Those are very appropriate and necessary exposures, and could hardly be considered "an all out exposure to the entire nation as a first approach."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Mel
I've been down with the flu and thought maybe my falculties were going. LOL


BW(me)
DDay EA 4/05
DDay PA 6/05
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Quote
he definitely does not endorse an all out exposure to the entire nation as a first approach.

NRO...I hope you can see from the above quote that noone here is suggesting you get on television and expose to everyone. We suggested the OMW, because she has the RIGHT to know the truth about her life. She can also be very important to the ending of the A. We suggested you FIL and MIL. Um, last time I checked, that was NOT "the entire nation." Good grief!

Exposure is a TOOL to end the A. Dr. Harley refers to affairs being an addition. Just like with any addict, if they have been confronted, and asked to stop the drug use, but are too far gone and weak to do so on their own, what is the next step? INTERVENTION! Exposure is like an intervention to the WS, where the closest members of the inner circle can come together to confront and help the WS end the A. While it is true that once this happens, if the WS continues to do the wrong thing, PLan B is absolutely necessary (Dr. Harley says it is necessary in 85% of cases).

But exposure is your number one tool. USE IT! The number two tool is to leave her to live with the reality of her choices. Nothing is foolproof, but Mel is absoutely right in the course of action you should take!


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

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Hi Mel,

No, I did read the thread, and understand it quite well. I'm always concerned on this forum that newcomers are told to 'expose' without having a full understanding of the ramifications of exposure, and having the support and guidance to get through it. Exposure is a very specific tool in the MB arsenal to end an affair.

You said:
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...and as he (SH) explained, we should continue to recommend exposure as we have been doing on this forum.

Well, you might want to give him a call and check again. Because he might have misunderstood you---and this is one reason I discussed it in detail with him a couple weeks ago over the phone. If I'm going to hang around here, I have wanted to get some clarity around the strategy of exposure as it relates to an affair. I don't like giving advice contrary to the MB methodology here, and although I've been through the counseling myself, it was 10 years ago and I was concerned that some of my knowledge was out of date. I'm always up for learning some more.

In regards to this affair, I would suggest (as always) that NRO seek counseling, and try to get his wife involved. If she can get to the point of writing a no-contact letter to the OM, I think that would be a perfect time to let the OM's spouse know what's been going on as well. WW's father may or may not be appropriate---I personally would not do it if the WW could turn this around in a reasonable timeframe (and I bet that would be the SH advice).

It's a shame that the rest of the boards aren't open to the general public---because if Dr. Harley has changed his stance since he and Jennifer wrote SAA, it would be very helpful for him to write an article to update the general site. I suggested that to them several months ago, but didn't hear back---which is what prompted me to call Steve...

And Michele, you faculties aren't going---but the first and only exposure that is recommended in Surviving an Affair is letting your spouse know AFTER you've discovered the affair. So yeah---it's a 'duh' in this case...

Good luck NRO---regardless of what your decision is around this. Remember that Plan A is to negotiate an end to the affair without disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts, or selfish demands---it's an attempt to make the marriage a safe, attractive place that your wife would have hope for the future.

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It would be interesting to hear more about this subject. All I know is that I've seen 100's of affairs end within a week or so after exposure to the other BS.

Many WS's want the marriage and the affair, and when the marriage is threatened, they end the affair immediately.

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Thanks for providing that reference and FIRST hand experience. It is good to hear this stuff from someone in a truly recovered marriage.
Of course, YOU must have been the one to misunderstand the advice given to you face to face...and which is supported by the references you cited.
I have to say that when it comes to sources of knowledge on this forum, Mel seems to be the best ...even if she is a silly Texan.

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Thanks for your post, K, however, I think it is you that has misunderstood exposure because the advice you give is nothing close to what Dr Harley has said or written. [you can read his posts yourself] Nor is it what Steve Harley told me personally. It is not even close to what you admit Steve said himself:

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"Steve only recommends exposure to other members (friends, family, coworkers, OP's spouse) as a specific tool to end the affair, and it very much is a situational exposure."

And no, Steve does not ONLY recommend exposure to that group, he has told members to expose at work and recently told a member, Leeno, to PLACE SIGNS about the affair at the OM's place of business. He told another member to "do everything short of taking out a billboard."


More importantly, Steve or Dr. Harley has NEVER said that one needs to get professional counseling to expose an affair to my knowledge. NEVER. And I have discussed it with BOTH men. [Dr. Harley on the phone, Steve in person] While counseling is always immensely valuable, it is certainly not a requirement. This forum is intended for folks who cannot or do not choose to get counseling. Some can, some can't. But it certainly is not a NECCESITY. Many of us here have recovered marriages and have never paid for counseling. [My DH and I counseled with a local MB coach and then attended a MB weekend, which was extremely valuable]

K, I have long detected a personal bias against exposure in your posts, and I suspect it stems from your misunderstanding that exposure is HARMFUL to marriages. It most certainly is not. Exposure is harmful to the AFFAIR, not the marriage. We would be doing newcomers a grave disservice if we did not tell them about this valuable tool. I, for one, pledge to continue making sure they know about it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Well, I am not going to step in the middle here.

OMW wasn't home, and didn't look like she had been home for some time. I am wondering if she got the news and left.

I just spend the afternoon with WW on the floor in front of me sobbing. She decided to leave for a while, took her bible and SAA with her so maybe she'll read more who knows.

FIL/MIL know, I saw them at church today and they prayed for me. WW was in child care. FIL is going to look into who I contact at OM's place of employment and get me policies etc.

I am going to call the Harley's, and I have an appointment this week with a friend of mine who's a psychologist.

WW may be on her way to see OM if he's back in town. (I don't know that he is, but he might be) Sticking to Plan A.

NRO


BH - me - 29
WW - 28
Married 07/2001
D-Day #2 - 03/01/2008
03/22/2008 - NC Established
05/??/2008 - NC Broken (I think)
07/01/2008 - WW 'Unsure of what she wants to do'
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NRO,

Welcome to MB, I'm sorry you’re here. Aside from the snipping that happens, it really is a good place. One of the things that is HIGHLY recommended before someone participates on this forum is to read through all the basic concepts. Not sure of you were able to do that or not. But if you can read through them first (if you haven't) it will help you navigate through differences of opinion here. if you have great.

I'll tell you about how I used exposure in my situation. It worked well for me. I exposed to only a few people, those that I knew my W would listen to and help support her and me. My parents, and a few at our church. Our church handled it extremely well. As did my parents.

I knew that if I had hit her with a tsunami, the embarrassment (while some here would say she deserved it) I believe would have been too much for her. If I had done it that way, there would have been nowhere she could go where she would not feel ashamed.

I was more concerned with saving my M, than I was in feeling powerful in the situation. I exposed to who I needed to expose to as it was necessary. I firmly believe that had I done the “tsunami” exposure, my W would not have felt like she could have gone anywhere.

Now, this worked for me. Will it work for you? I don’t know. I think that is why K is suggesting that you get a plan from Steve before you go forward with any more exposure. You need to know what to do after the light is on the A. Mel is right, it's not a requirement; but sometimes it a pretty good thing to do.

What do you think the “tsunami” will do to your W’s spirit? What do you think it will do if you show a little restraint in exposure and she later finds out that you had the power to totally and completely crush the A and you chose to exercise a little grace and mercy so she could retain some dignity?

Exposure will kill an A, over-exposure can kill a recoverable M.

I give you my experience because it’s hard for anyone to argue with what happened in my M. Hope it helps. I'm glad you are trusting God in this.

My W and I celebrate 25 years this year and we are quite happy.

In His Arms.

S&C


No man likes to have his intelligence or good faith questioned, especially if he has doubts about it himself. - Henry Brooks Adams
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I don't think one person one here suggested exposing to anyone that couldn't impact the affair....someone that would be able to offer pressure or influenece. What's the tsunami stuff???? K's suggestions are inconsistent with what is written on this site and what ML has stated in regards to her conversations with both Dr. H and Steve. No one is suggesting OVER EXPOSURE. Affairs kell marriages...exposure kills affairs.

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Thank you S&C.

One of the reason I haven't been super aggressive is just that, the exposure would totally kill WW's spirit, and make her not want to be around me at all. (she is already feeling so tired, confused and mistrustful)

FIL/MIL will help, even if they just pray for me. and OMW needs to know so she can start to heal. I am going to tell my therapist but will wait to talk to they Harley's before I do more.

M


BH - me - 29
WW - 28
Married 07/2001
D-Day #2 - 03/01/2008
03/22/2008 - NC Established
05/??/2008 - NC Broken (I think)
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You're welcome.

Blessings.

S&C


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NRO, I regret the dissension on your thread. It really is a shame that a simple and standard defensive measure like exposure to a OP spouse has to be defended on the forum of the very psychologist who coined the practice. Many ppl here would not be married today if they had not exposed.

I agree you don't have to be super aggressive in exposure, but no one has suggested any such thing on this thread. I think that exposing to the OMW and your FIL is sufficient for now, just as was suggested.

Exposure, however, does have a TSUNAMI effect no matter how it is done. That is inherent and can't be avoided.[unless one is exposing to the janitor in the WS' office building or some other useless "exposure"]

What does have to happen, however, is exposure to the OM's wife and to key family members. In your case, your FIL and MIL, mainly because the OM works for your FIL.

I think its a great idea for you to get coaching with Steve Harley. He can assess your situation and hopefully, bring your wife back into the fold.

Will your in-laws have a discussion with your wife and do what they can to bust up the affair? Will your FIL speak to the OM since they work together? Dr. Harley advocates causing "as much conflict as possible" in the affair. That might be a great opportunity for your FIL to inflict some conflict.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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NRO: this exposure debate really is unfounded. Exposure is a very valuable and effective tool. Do not be afraid to use it, esp with OMW! She is going to quite likely be your strongest leverage point in this situation, and even if she is not, she still deserves to know.

The point of exposure is not to punish your WW, it is to end the A. Sometimes the WS views it as punishment, but that is unavoidable and sometimes a price the BS must be willing to bear to give thier M a chance to recover.

There really is no reason for a controversy regarding you exposing this to OMW or your FIL. Those are quite reasonable targets in your situation in my opinion. I think as well that calling the Harley's for advice is always good advice, but if you aren't going to do that, I think you should feel pretty comfortable with the idea that this exposure you're planning falls well within the MB plan scope.

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ML My FIL will probably talk to OM yes. I am not certain though but will talk to him about it. FIL/MIL were very supportive of me, they prayed for us and will continue to do so.

WW and I had a good conversation when she got back from her outing last night. I'm not certain if she saw OM or not but it wouldn't surprise me if she did. She is still struggling with staying or leaving, but last night she said she was leaning more towards staying. However that varies from day to day. She did mention that over the past week she has gained a lot more respect for me.

She's still reading SAA. She understands what she has is an addiction but said to me 'I'm not certain all addictions are wrong, you wouldn't be upset if I was addicted to you.' to which I responded with the definition of addiction that I have heard 'and addiction harms yourself or others and you do it regardless of the consequences. If you were addicted to me you wouldn't be causing harm, so you wouldn't be addicted technically' she took that pretty well.

I have an appointment with my therapist friend today. I think it will be good to talk about all of this, to someone who isn't involved.

Does anyone have any samples of letters I can send to HR departments.. I am at a loss here.


BH - me - 29
WW - 28
Married 07/2001
D-Day #2 - 03/01/2008
03/22/2008 - NC Established
05/??/2008 - NC Broken (I think)
07/01/2008 - WW 'Unsure of what she wants to do'
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NRO, does he not work for your FIL? I will post a sample exposure letter to HR, but your most powerful exposure will be to the OMW. That might kill the affair immediately with 2 people watching from both ends. I doubt the OM will want the trouble. When you speak to the OMW, I would also let her know that your wife's parents have been informed so she can pass that onto the OM.

Here is a sample exposure letter to HR from a board member who is a corporate attorney: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0&fpart=2

Is your therapist experienced AT ALL in infidelity? Most ARE NOT, NRO, and actually cause more harm than good.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thanks,

Yes he does work with my FIL, I just want to be prepared as my FIL works in a support department and OM works in another.

My therapist is a close friend of mine, and he is very experienced with Infidelity. I am relying on SAA/Harley's for advice with the affair, I just need someone to talk to, cry with and start to heal myself. He is a close friend and I trust him.


BH - me - 29
WW - 28
Married 07/2001
D-Day #2 - 03/01/2008
03/22/2008 - NC Established
05/??/2008 - NC Broken (I think)
07/01/2008 - WW 'Unsure of what she wants to do'
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Just got back from my therapist, what a great relief to be able to talk to someone who is not involved directly or indirectly. He didn't give me any advice I didn't already have, but did encourage/reaffirm and prayed with me for WW and myself and our marriage.

I'm feeling pretty good right now, which is better then I have felt in about a week.

I went to try and see OMW on lunch. One of her neighbors was outside and said she left in a hurry with the kids on Saturday, and hasn't been back since. I would assume that means she knows, and has reacted in my opinion poorly but I don't know for certain so I will keep trying.


BH - me - 29
WW - 28
Married 07/2001
D-Day #2 - 03/01/2008
03/22/2008 - NC Established
05/??/2008 - NC Broken (I think)
07/01/2008 - WW 'Unsure of what she wants to do'
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Sounds like she DOES know. Maybe one affair is her boundary.

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Good deal, NRO. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Were you able to get an appt with Steve Harley?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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