WW decided to speak with L today for the first time (just a consultation). She came back with some notion that since I was the only one living in our house I was fully responsible for everything....utilities, upkeep, mortgage, taxes, everything.....at least legally.

My L had told me in my consultation that WW may have some legal right to receive some rent money from whoever's living in the house. Since I'm living here and "benefitting" from the house, I may be responsible for at least some of the fair rental value that WW is not receiving since she doesn't live here. Don't know all the legalities of this though.

We live in S. California. Bought house 1-1/2 years ago, in both of our names. With current market, upside down about $100k. Neither of us can afford to keep it on our own. Realator (WW's best friend) had convinced her to hold on for 6 mo. or more to see if the market started to come around, but all of a sudden now WW just wants to walk away. She doesn't want to be paying on a house that she doesn't live in (which I guess I can understand to some extent).

WW thinks I'm solely responsible legally for the payments and she is ready to walk away and drop it in my lap. She understands that her name is on the loan and her credit will be hammered but doesn't even care about that. Does it matter AT ALL that she voluntarily walked away from our home, that this is my primary residence, that I've been solely responsible for the upkeep and maintenance, that we are still M and no D filed yet, that she is having an A and has moved in with OM...that this is just plain morally WRONG...does any of that matter?

What are my options? I can't afford to keep it. I don't want foreclosure b/c it probably kills credit for 7 years or so. We could short-sell it to a new buyer, the bank would just take the loss (we wouldn't be responsible for the difference), and it would still hurt credit but not as bad.....but I don't know if it could be short-sold very quickly. I talked to realator tonight and told her to start the ball rolling to put it on the market....I don't know if I have any other choice.

What means do I have if WW just stops giving me her share of the money for mortgage? Should I try to make up the difference for a few months until it can be short-sold (lender told me it's worse to fall behind on payments/foreclosure....then short-sell it...sort of a double-whammy there).

Also, we are looking at the mortgage as a 50/50 split responsibility....if I make more $$ should my share be more? Since we bought house before we were married, I'd think not.

Very confused, very very frustrated. I may have to go ahead and retain L now and maybe even file for D myself. WW also took $1600 out of our savings that she knew we needed for bills/mortgage this month. She claims it was from her paycheck and she wants her money....but it's a joint account and it is our money. Not sure what to do right now. WW is coming over tomorrow night to go through the rest of the months bills but it could be ugly. For the first time in nearly 6 years together, WW got told to go F- herself tonight. I feel absolutely horrible, but I got pushed to the brink. I may be at the point of no return now.

Anyone have any advice on the house? Do I have any legal grounds and/or can I do anything to save my credit? I'm going to start talking to creditors now to give them a head's up. I spoke to lender tonight already.

Help! Thanks MB'ers
-ILA

you are both responsible for the loan period. doesn't matter that she is not living there. do you have a legal separation? if not, if you don't do D do up a legal sep asap that lists both of you as responsible for fifty percent of the mortgage note.

she chose to walk out doesn't mean she is not responsible legally for that note. trust me, the mortgage company could care less. can you force her to pay half? no. can you sue her over it? possibly.

i am going through the same thing right now. i have lived in the marital residence since ex left in 2005. our agreement simply states i will refinance in my name only and at THAT time will be 100 percent responsible for all upkeep and taxes and payments. now ex is trying to force me to sell or refi saying i am in breach of agreement. well, sorry but i am not. there was no time frame to refi or sell in place. period. and, he has not given me one dime in taxes, upkeep, etc, since he left and our agreement says i would not be totally responsible until i refi in my own name.

get a layer to protect yourself if nothing else. sounds like you are going to have to sell. if she doesn't care that her credit gets ruined than she is not going to be very helpful.

2 names on the mortgage means 2 people responsible. period.

mlhb

If ther isn't a lease for your renter, then the saifd renter is a room mate.

She ain't entitled to squat AND you can request in the LSA that she make HALF the house payments.

Get it done NOW! before you are forced to sell it and have to give her half the "vlaue" even though fees will eat your equity.

I lost my house to a caniving lowlife WW and she couldn't afford the house and is now losing it.

Get a LSA agreement in place now or file a divorce and request an emergency hearing to get temporary orders in place. If she is ORDERED to pay and doesn't, you can then request that she be found in contempt of court. At that point (because I don't know CA law) I don't know if the Judge can freeze her assets, attach her bank account, or garnish her wage but she would have to answer to the judge at any rate.

Here's what a California attorney says about it:
(http://www.jsyohananlaw.com/PracticeAreas/Reimbursement-Issues.asp)

"Just as property acquired during the marriage but before legal separation belongs to both spouses equally, debts prior to separation are the responsibility of both spouses equally as well, at least for divorce purposes. Under the terms of the contract that documents the debt, your creditor doesn't care which of the spouses pays it off, and usually is entitled to collect the entire amount from either spouse. In many property division cases, the spouses agree that the party with the higher income will pay off all or most of the marital indebtedness in exchange for receiving a larger share of the community property.

An important detail under California law also complicates the question of debt responsibility in divorce. If a divorce spouse pays down a marital debt - that is, one that existed prior to separation - with income earned after separation, which is separate property, the paying spouse is entitled to reimbursement for that payment from community property. Half the value of the payment would be deducted from the value of the marital estate and credited to the paying spouse.

The classic example of this situation is when a husband moves out of the marital residence upon separation, but continues to make the mortgage payments, unless he waives his right to reimbursement in writing, or the spouses agree that the payments should be counted as child support, spousal support, or both. Prenuptial agreements can also alter the rights of the spouses in a reimbursement situation.

Other debt reimbursement issues can involve the use of community property to pay off separate debt, as when the wife pays off the husband's premarital debts to improve their credit score. Additionally, separate property - such as a premarital 401(k) account, or an inheritance - is sometimes used to pay off community debts, and the paying spouse can be eligible for repayment under certain circumstances."

*Remember when he discusses "separation" he is discussing a "legal separation".

First off get your own checking account and get rid of the joint one.
SHE is responsible for the mortgage as much as you are. The thing is you can't force her (without a court order) to pay for 1/2 the mortgage. As for the utilities, you would be responsible for them because you live there. For her side of things (sorry, I know this sucks) if you both owned it and are paying 1/2 then you would have to figure out how much it would "rent" for. Say your mortgage is $2000. If you would rent it you would get $1200. Then you would pay $1200 of the mortage and she would have to pay $800. It sounds like she does just want to walk away. You need to talk to her about this and you NEED to get a lawyer. If she wants to walk away and you want to save your credit have her sign over the mortage and the deed to you. Then either get a roommate to help pay the mortage until you can sell it or do the short-sell route. I am not sure about how that works so make sure you research that before you commit. I think if you could find a roommate it would be the best way to go.

ILA:

My concern, in addition 2 what's been said above, is that the house is currently worth less than what is owed on it, by $100K, as you said.

I also live in So Cal, and you're right - prices peaked a couple of years ago, and have been falling since. It's not clear when, or if, they'll start rebounding.

Your W may want 2 just sign it over 2 you so that she doesn't have the responsibility for eating $50K in losses. I wouldn't let her get away with that unless you can get a renter and thereby keep the house until things 2rn around (it can also be a show of BH strength, because you would then be demonstrating that you have the wherewithal to persevere in spite of her behavior).

But if you don't think you can manage to keep the house, then don't let her off the hook for absorbing 50% of the loss if you have to sell. That's life.

And remember, like I said before: It's only a building.

-ol' 2long

I agree Z. If he has to take a loss or have it go on his credit rating it should go on her's also. That is why IMO he should figure out what he wants to do and seek legal advice before doing anything. If he wants to save the house and save his credit he should figure out what his options are. If she backs out and doesn't pay him he needs to know what his rights are. Your comment "It's only a building" rings soo true but I don't know what I would do if I was in his shoes. I know it goes on your record for 7 years but does he/they have to pay the money back for the loss? If he pays 1/2 over the years does it still show on his records because she didn't pay hers? My sister's first husband left her and they had just got a car that he drove (new with a 5 year loan) In the divorce it was put into his name and his responsibility. FF She meets her now current husband and they decide to get married and buy a home. Her ex's car was repo'ed and it was on her credit report. She had to send a copy of the divorce papers. It took a while but they did get the loan. The mortgage company overlooked the repo but it stayed on her credit report for 7 years.

Indeed, 2long, that's the situation that is the hardest. I'd love to keep the house on my own but can't just let her sign it over to me and have me inherit $100k in "debt" if you will. She would love to get out that easy.

WW pretty much is telling me that she plans to simply stop paying her part of the mortgage...she doesn't care about her credit (of course not, she's living in a rent/mortgage free house with OM and just bought a new car...she's fine for a while).

I'm trying to find a way to keep my credit intact and not let her take me down with the ship.

Sounds like short sale is best route. If we find a buyer, the bank gets whatever the house sells for. With the type of loan we have, we will not be responsible for making up the difference (sort of like settling on a credit card debt payoff). It will hurt credit, but I'm told by lender it may only be 3-4 years on credit report.....foreclosure is 7 I think.

I'm hoping we could find a buyer soon (well not hoping...I don't want to let the house go....but financially the sooner the better) and if WW stops making all payments then maybe I can supplement a month or two to keep from missing any payments prior to short sale.

I wonder if I make the full payment on my own and can halfway save MY credit....does she also benefit and am I saving HER credit too? She sure wouldn't deserve that benefit.

This is the part I'm unclear on and need to see L about. I was told she has a right to the rental value since I'm living there and she's not. That would be about $2k. Our mortagage is $4k. I don't know if she gets to accept $2k in "profit" from the rental amount, then we are obligated to split the remaining $2k (in which case she'd actually be MAKING money....I pay $3k ($2k of it to her), she pays $1k)

Do I pay her $2k, then I am responsible for my "half" still? That means I pay $2k to her and still pay $2k more....whole mortage by me?

I can't afford any more than $2500 a month on my own. I don't know how I can manage to have us pay $4000 a month if she simply stops paying or pushes for this "rent" money?

Well I am not an expert on this so that is why I think you need to seek legal help. We are landlords though so I can tell you how it works for us from that standpoint.
We pay the mortgage, taxes and insurance on the rental home. We don't have tenants right now (STRESS!) so we pay electric, water and maintain the yard. When our tenants finally move in on the first of the month they will pay rent and any utilities and also will be responsible for lawn care. We are still responsible for the mortgage, taxes and utilities so for you I would think you and your WW should split that 50/50. Then you would be paying "rent" and utilities so that is where it gets muddy. If it rents for $2000 and you both own it then you split that in 1/2 and you come up with you pay 3000 and she pays 1000. Then there is upkeep on the house. Anything that needs fixing we pay for so if you have something fixed she has to pay for 1/2.

After typing all of this it looks like such a mess, I am so sorry you are going through this! I can not stress enough that you need legal help so you can put together a game plan. If you do sell the house and the buyers want to rent it maybe you can rent it from them so you don't have to move right away.
BTW my math was off in my first post, sorry.

I'm not sure I understand the rental stuff you are talking about. So what if she is not living there and you are? Lots of people own houses or other property without actually living there. Think of all the cottages around! Why should you pay her rent? It's not like you threw her out - she has every right to live there if she wants to seeing that she is an owner!

That said, she IS an owner of the house and regardless of market rates and what you owe, the house IS an investment. I would recommend getting a roomate to help you keep the house and using the housing market at a bargaining chip with WW to "trade" for other assets. Do you live near a university or college where you could get a student? When you get her to agree to giving up the house (expecially if she is taking on other debts, or leaving you with other assets she otherwise wouldn't), you need to go to the bank and remortgage your house in your name alone. Refinance it over a longer period of time to reduce your monthly payment! You only have to keep it up until you can sell your house for what it's worth. It's not a bad move.

Here's what I did in my similar situation: (1) drew up legal SA very simply trading off his half of the house and ALL of its contents for his truck, no spousal support (I make more money)and I keep my pension. I also agreed to take our huge line of credit debt. (2) I got a student roomate who I give a discount rent to in exchange for chores which I can't do. (3) Got his name off the house as soon as he signed the LSA and refinanced to cover the LOC debt as well as some additional money so I could fix up the money pit. DS is in college for one more year and after that I can afford to sell it. The OWH in my sitch was in more dire straights than me and didn't have the equity to cover what I did with my refinancing, so he refinanced his house over 35 years. Sounds crazy - especially since he's 47 years old, but I've heard of 45 year mortgages. This is possible and worth looking into.

Even if she signs over the house to you (quit claim), this just gets her out of any ownership in the property- she STILL OWES ON THE LOAN. Ownership and the $$ are two seperate things. Countrywide or whomever holds the loan doesnt care that she files a quit claim deed with the court, they just know her name is on the note, and unless you refinance her off the note (loan) she is still going to get her credit mangled. As she should, if this all goes down.

HTH

She isn't entitled to rent because you co-own the house. If you did not have your name on the mortgage, then she could charge you. She is on the hook regardless of where she lives.

However, you need to file for D right now. I can promise you 100% ILA, that your situation is not going to be a MB happy ending. Most WW's that commit adultery at least have some semblance of conflict while they cheat on their husband. Yours shows none at all. She is a sociopath. You married a flawed person. There is no reason to prolong your agony. This woman is EVIL. That's a bold statement, but true. I'm sure you had some good times together and she was good to you at some point, but that is only because IT SERVED HER PURPOSE. You should distance yourself from this woman and start over by picking someone better next time. This means pick a girl with your head moreso than your heart. Things I would look for:

1) Comes from a solid nuclear family.
2) Is active in practicing her religion.
3) Socially conservative.
4) Dresses conservatively and is not openly flirty with men.

Red flags:

1) Multiple failed marriages/long term relationships.
2) Family history of failed marriages or other problems.
3) Flirty with men and dresses suggestively to attract attention.
4) Has many friends of the opposite sex.
5) Is socially liberal and practices moral relativism.
6) Is not involved in religion but rather practices secular humanism.

DIVORCE THIS WOMAN! You'll thank me later.

Thanks everyone for the great ideas. I just retained my lawyer and have a meeting set up tomorrow afternoon. I have to quickly figure out how I can make her legally responsible to help pay mortgage (and taxes which are due in a month) at least until we can get the house short-sold.

Maybe an emergency filing or something in court can legally bind her to something like this.

I know Ca. is a no-fault state, but I'm hoping that some of the common sense things like....her volunatarily walking away from her responsibilities due to A and moving in with OM, me taking care of ALL responsibilities, upkeep, bills, etc. with house, this is my primary residence, I'm doing everything in good faith to not default....that kind of stuff....I'm hoping maybe that can eventually do something to help save my credit at least. I've heard sometimes you can get court orders that keep your credit clean in this sit.....anyone heard of that?

Good job. The best thing you can do is see an attorney. My ex pulled something similar. He moved in immediately with his affair partner and made no payments on any of our bills. I was trying to be nice and aski8ng him to help out.

Instead of helping, he took out all of our savings, all of his retirement, and his $25,000. bonus to blow on the affair. I ended up taking in roommates and filing for bankruptcy.

Then, he came back and filed for half of the home of which I'd been paying all of the expenses for 3 years.

The only protection you have is an attorney.

Wow, that's just horrible, Believer! I'm sorry to hear that story....I hope you're better now??

Anyway, thanks for the support. I don't want it to be a fight b/c it may ruin any chance at saving things or having any relations with WW whatsoever in the future. But, at this point I'm better off without that anyway. It really sucks, but she's the one pushing the buttons, I'm just doing what I have to do.

I didn't want to fight either. But it was a HUGE mistake not to seek legal advice.

And I'm doing fine now.

Ex is "sorry" now that the affair ended, but I'm done.

Protect yourself.

Great advice believer, you have to protect yourself because you don't know what will happen in the future.

ILA, I've been trying to learn more about your sitch from your other thread, but I'll admit I haven't read the whole thing. Your WW sounds exactly like my WSTBXH. He moved straight out of my house in with OW a mere 2 weeks after D-day. He refused to talk to me about anything at all other than dividing things up. He initially wanted the house and all its contents in exchange for a pitance settlement to be paid to me over a few years - it wasn't even enough to rent an apartment with. Our house had not lost value due to market, but it was (still is to an extent) in need of repairs that were visible enough to prevent us from selling it for what we owed. I almost took his offer until I found out about the A and that OW had already made plans to move in. There was NO WAY she was going to set foot in my house, despite it seeming impossible to keep it myself (I also communte a very long distance and can't be home to do regular maintenance, let alone repairs).

Now, I ultimately chose not to persue recovering my M. However, before this I attempted a very poorly executed Plan A, and upon my decision, went into a modified Plan B (no letter, not 100% dark but I never, ever contact him and he only rarely contacts me). I did (and still do) do what I can to improve myself and feel better about myself. I'm about 8 months further out from D-day than you so I can tell you what WSTBXH has responded to and how.

First of all, every little thing I asked for in the separation sent him flying into a rage. It was beyond anything I'd seen in our 17 years together. However, the next day he would agree to it. He made horrible, horrible threats, some of which I caved into but some I held my ground - he never followed through on them. He ended up taking a pitance from me rather than the other way around. I did get legal advise and I did learn how things work here. He has also cashed in all of his RRSPs, taken on a 40 year mortgage with OW on their new house, borrowed to the limit of his/their line of credit and used every "do not pay until..." promotion to buy the absolute top of the line appliances and furniture. I am protected from these actions because I separated myself from him legally and financially very early on. He can't possibly carry the debt load he's created for himself and unless he is run over by a bus, he will be in trouble. I will not.

All that said, looking back from here I can see where I probably could have actually saved my M. In fact, I'm not so sure I couldn't still do it if I chose. When I switched to Plan B (my modified version), his attitude towards me definitely changed. When he does call now, he's much more civilized. If I deny him whatever he is asking for, he still blows up BUT he's the one who calls back right away because truthfully, I don't care anymore that he's upset with me. I'm really starting to feel like *I* am the one in control of the situation now. He's still doing crazy things - things that even people who aren't that close to him can see are crazy. I am far more protected emotionally than I ever was. He has essentially behaved exactly as the vets here say WS's behave in Plan B.

I guess what I'm saying in a long winded way is that getting a lawyer will NOT ruin your chances for saving your M. In fact, it may even help your chances in the sense that you can let the lawyer do the things that might be percieved as LBs. It will also help ensure that you aren't ruined financially - so that you can execute your plan A/B without having all THAT on top of the emotional baggage you now carry. Not to mention, how do you think you are going to feel when your WW takes what little you have in the way of assets and uses it to fund her little love next with OM? Talk about adding insult to injury!

It is hard and you have my deepest sympathies for having to endure this, as well as my admiration for the efforts you are making.