Mimi,

I don't KNOW if forgiveness and letting go are one and the same, but the act of letting go is what I am pursuing. When I do, let go, that is, I feel better, I function better, I give better, I recieve better. Maybe that is really what *I* need to do. Again, I learned as a child that forgiveness was something asked for and given in exchange.

Isn't the Christian perspective TO forgive? I suppose I'm a little confused on that one, then.

I'm certainly not looking for PWC to change, so the alternative is ridding my life of the pain, by doing a Plan B of sorts, for life. When I imagine him REmarrying, it just fires me up. It hasn't happened, though, so I need to stop that line of thinking. I'm hoping, by the time that happens, it will only sting a little, because I will fully have embraced that those are HIS choices and have nothing to do with me, or my worth.

I'm also trying to recognize my part in all of this mess, so that I don't make the same mistakes in the future. The fact is, I chose this man. Why did I do that? It's about fixing me and acceptance of my past choices. It's about letting go the past, and embracing today.

Maybe, for me, that's the ultimate. Forgiving myself.

I try to live every aspect of MY LIFE from a Christian perspective so it's hard for me to voice any opinion that does not somehow come from that perspective.

I have FORGIVEN my H but there are those who have hurt me, sinned against, betrayed me that I HAVE NOT FORGIVEN. I do not plan to FORGIVE until they ASK for my FORGIVENESS...until they REPENT of their sins against me.

I am able to LET GO, because I have turned them over to GOD. In my view, until they REPENT of their sins and get GOD'S FORGIVENESS, MY LOWLY FORGIVNESS doesn't matter.

From a SELFISH point of view, I could FORGIVE but what's that doing but helping ME to move on..

That's not REALLY showing CARE and LOVE for that PERSON.

I PRAY for those that have sinned against me..

I've turned them over to GOD and I have let them go...

BUT, I HAVE NOT FORGIVEN...

This is a perspective that is talked about in the book BOLD LOVE by Allender and Longman..

We had a discussion on THE FORUM about that book..which I loved..it was a life-changing read for me...

But it fits with the teachings of the NEW TESTAMENT..which I follow...

This is my viewpoint on this, SL...

Mimi,

I don't read scripture, but I do prescribe to much that I learned as a child, from my mother, who did. Many practices that I have in my life SEEM to revolve around the Christian perspective.

I also do not believe that MY forgiveness is what matters most, but it is for the offender to beg for himself. I can forgive myself, and have, but, as I said, I don't see how NOT forgiving PWC will truly harm me. Letting go of him, and the pain, the anger, is what I believe will serve myself, and all those in my life, the best.

I also believe, in a sense, that it is patronizing to give forgiveness to those who don't want or don't believe they need it.

Letting go; that's where I'm at. Acceptance is a huge part of that for me. I don't have to understand every bit and every angle right now, but I can accept that it is what it is. Understanding may come with time and gained wisdom.

And I'm not wanting to shame you for not reading Scripture...

I'm not saying that forgiving him will HARM you...

I'm just saying that I personally can't UNDERSTAND why it's necessary...

I mean TRUE FORGIVENESS..as I have done with my H, who has made amends to me and keeps doing so...

PWC does not seem WORTHY of FORGIVENESS as I define FORGIVENESS..

As you say, I was able to LET MY HUSBAND GO..I turned him completely over to GOD...and if he hadn't come back, that's where he would have stayed...

I had planned to make him DEAD to me..

I TRIED to PRETEND he was DEAD during PLAN B...

I know you are not trying to shame me, Mimi. I know that about you, don't you worry on that.

I agree, that was what I was saying, how would NOT forgiving possibly would harm ME. I don't believe that it will (not forgiving him). I believe that keeping anger in my heart will harm me, so I choose to work on that.

All I know is that Plan B is my destination. I will modify it a bit, for my son, in very few instances (his birthday this year), but that's about it. Unless there is true remorse and amends, I have no interest in even talking to PWC. I have made peace with this decision.

I have been blaming myself for so long, over much that has occurred, which was disrespectful, in a way. I have now identified and taken responsibility for what was my part in all of this mess. I refuse to believe that I did not put my all in, with what I was facing.

People talk about diminishing returns; in my marriage, this last year, there were NO returns. I tried, and tried. I called Jennifer a few times, to get advice, and incorporated it. I read and posted and made changes (which I am glad for, regardless of the state of my marriage). I DID make alone time for us, suggested activities. He was a brick wall, and I just couldn't be a doormat, and I believe THAT would have been the only way.

Acceptance, acceptance, my mantra. Not always an easy task, when you want to control.

Oh, I could go on and on.

I think you are nothing less than WONDERFUL, SL!

I SOOOO ADMIRE YOU!!

Me too mimi!

Me too Mimi . I do not think i would have been able to be as strong as SL has been through this whole ordeal.

SL you have grown so much and i know that as soon as you can start moving forward you and your son will be just fine because you are such as STRONG person.

Hope so, SC.

Thanks for giving the kudos. It DOES help.

I'm workin on ST myself. I think it's important not to have that negativity in my head all the time too.

What a crazy ride this has been so far. I STILL shake my head in bewilderment that this whole ordeal has happened. It's unbelievable how far reaching the damage one person can do is.

I honestly did not believe our marriage was THAT bad. Maybe stale, but certainly not bad. Do we have a shaking your head with disbelief emoticon . I suppose crazy will have to do.

A song that struck a chord with me this afternoon, as I was driving home. It's from Colin Hay's album "Going Somewhere" and it's called "Waiting for my Real Life to Begin"

Any minute now, my ship is coming in
I'll keep checking the horizon
I'll stand on the bow, feel the waves come crashing
Come crashing down down down, on me

And you say, be still my love
Open up your heart
Let the light shine in
But don't you understand
I already have a plan
I'm waiting for my real life to begin

When I awoke today, suddenly nothing happened
But in my dreams, I slew the dragon
And down this beaten path, and up this cobbled lane
I'm walking in my old footsteps, once again
And you say, just be here now
Forget about the past, your mask is wearing thin
Let me throw one more dice
I know that I can win
I'm waiting for my real life to begin

Any minute now, my ship is coming in
I'll keep checking the horizon
And I'll check my machine, there's sure to be that call
It's gonna happen soon, soon, soon
It's just that times are lean

And you say, be still my love
Open up your heart, let the light shine in
Don't you understand
I already have a plan
I'm waiting for my real life to begin

It struck me that I've been living my real life and am happy for it. I'm not waiting. I see a lot of WS's waiting though, looking and waiting.

My IC tells me that forgiveness is something that is done largely for the person doing the forgiving--for precisely the reasons you mention. Carrying around the anger and the hurt is not healthy for you.

BR would say that this is really letting go, and that forgiveness is something that must be asked for to be granted. You're saying the same thing, and I would agree with that. Most people probably don't draw a distinction between letting go and forgiveness, though.

Watch out for the semantics is all I really wanted to say.

Well, that and that SL is still my hero.

Malathion works on those.

Guy Smiley! Good to read you!

The more I think about it, the more I believe letting go, and learning about what you can control and what is futile and not within your power to change, is of the utmost importance. For a controller, it can be terribly difficult to understand that you are limited.

I felt like some power had been stripped from me when PWC did not respond to my changes. Then I realized I needed to make those changes, regardless of what anyone else said or did in response. Then I realized I DO have power, over myself and my environment, to an extent, and to what enters my life. Even power of my happiness became apparent.

It's not easy to accept that you aren't even a factor in your spouses decisions. He missed his kid, and told me what I wanted to hear, did some of the things I wanted to see, and when he felt safe, and at home, quit. Maybe he DID try, but it was very little effort expended on his part; whatever he felt comfortable with. The things he did did not go unnoticed; I always thanked him. The way he treated me didn't either. There wasn't one ounce of concern for me outwardly, and I can't read minds, so I could only feel the lack of love.

I sure as heck don't feel like a hero. I pray now that I can do right by my kid, and be happy and healthy. I feel, on some level, that I failed to show PWC how much I loved him. I was always so affected by his total lack on engagment and enthusiasm, and did allow that to drag me down.

It's the 'if only' syndrome that I wish to rid myself of. It's STINKIN' THINKIN'--ST (as SC so eloquently puts it). If only I had done this better or done that more consistently. I really don't believe that there was anything I could do, once PWC made his mind up to shut down, he cut me off at that point. That was probably in June of last year (shaking my head-rolling my eyes)

KICK KICK KICK!!!!

Stop that!

You do not have that control! You did more than most would have! HE MADE HIS CHOICES!!

Agreed! So be it!

Much Better!!


or as Yul Brenner as Ramses said in the Ten Commandments:

“So it is said, So it shall be written!”

I loved Yul Brenner! HE was a hot tamale

I liked him in The Magnificent Seven but mostly liked the music by Elmer Bernstein.

He and Rex Harrison were magnificent in their respective versions of Anna and the King of Siam!