Hey all,
It's been a while since I posted. A link to my original story is in my siggy, but I thought I'd start a second thread for "recovery" -- which doesn't sound like a very apt term, but I digress...

The basics: D-day was 11/16, WS refused to leave OW, despite the fact that our 2nd daughter was born 12/31. He works away from home and OW resides where he's been working the past year. Finally, on 3/9 he called and said, basically, that the fog had lifted and that he would like to come home. On 3/10 he packed up (he had been living with her for about 2 weeks, which led to his fog lifting in my opinion), told her he was leaving, and came home.

The first couple of days were good. He was remorseful, willing to talk about things, apologetic, and looking forward to recovery. He stated, in no uncertain terms, on Tuesday the 11th, that he was DONE talking to her. I knew that was too good to be true. He continued to talk to her every few days, saying that she kept calling him and he had to call her back to tell her not to call him. I pointed out how idiotic that was and that she was guilting him, which he acknowledged.

Things have really been pretty good between us the whole time. But it's now clear to me that he's pretty much been talking to her the whole time. It went from "I'm done talking to her" to "I have to tell her not to call me" to "Let me finish this (relationship)" to "I'm trying to let it die out". Which obviously he's not or he wouldn't still be talking to her.

He finally started leaving his phone unlocked about a week ago and I'd been checking it in the morning to see if he had any calls or texts. Yesterday morning he had one from her, which I read, then deleted. I felt guilty about it, so I asked him if he'd been talking to her and proceeded to tell him about deleting the message. This is when he told me that he's been talking to her every few days (about nothing in particular, work etc = small talk!!! sheesh). Now he's locking his phone again.

I am at my wit's freaking end here. I feel crushed all over again. I know it's the addiction of her that's drawing him back to her, but what the heck am I supposed to be doing here? I feel like I'm losing my mind. This is almost worse than the 4 months I waited for the affair to end.

Should I be Plan A'ing him again and ignore his behavior? Or?

Please help me.

Hi Pix,

It sounds like you let him back in without any kind of boundaries. Am I right? We've just been in recovery for two months ourselves and we talked to Jennifer that first week. She only wanted to worry about and discuss two things to start off our recovery. 1- Undivided attention... you know the 15 hrs. per week, and 2- Extraordinary precautions to sustain NC.
This is what it sounds like is missing in your recovery. First you need to recognize is that these are precautions he is taking, not you. Second... get that phone number changed the sooner the better. If she has your home number and calls there, you might have to get that changed as well. Does she know where he works? If so he needs to come up with a plan so that if she shows up there he doesn't even have to see her. In my FWWs case, one of her coworkers knows our situation and knows what the OM looks like so she keeps an eye out, and walks my W to her car. If she's not around that day my W calls me when she gets to work and when she leaves. The idea being that if he is waiting to talk to her, she just hands him the phone and says "talk to my H". A NC letter is probably a good idea here because she keeps contacting him. Bottom line is every time he talks to her, it put your recovery effort back to the start.

It doesn’t sound like he doing this to hurt you, but he may not understand how much it does hurt. At the same time he's trying not to be a complete jerk with the OW. Talk to him about how it makes you feel when he talks to her (In the Plan A method, no AO or LBs) and discuss a plan of no contact and extraordinary precautions. Most importantly, if you can call Jennifer. She has been amazing with our stitch.

TMTS gave you some really good advice. Seriously, as long as there is contact, you keep going back to ground zero. Hubby needs to understand that there can be NO CONTACT, EVER. If he's not willing to do this, then I would question his commitment to true recovery.

Yes and no. Initially (within the first day), he stated that it was HIS intention not to talk to her again. But then she would contact him and he would feel obligated to return the favor. So it's just snowballed out of control.

I realize that what I should have been doing is asking him EVERY day if he communicated with her. I guess I felt like in doing that, I would be LB'ing him. I get the idea that Dr. Harley feels that's not the case, or rather that it is but it doesn't matter. So that's what I should be doing, correct? --Asking him every day if he's had contact with her? Up until now, he's always been honest with me, so that doesn't seem to be an issue.

He won't agree to having his phone number changed. I've also suggested that he block her phone number, but he shrugged it off. Again, he must feel that he owes her something. I can understand that, but from my perspective it's bull**it.

As far as her physically seeing him, that's not an issue as she lives 5 hours from here. Their only contact is by phone, and that's happening at least every 2nd or 3rd day, I'll assume.

I agree with this, but it doesn't make it any less devastating. Also, he comments how hurt he is by letting his relationship with her go. As much as that hurts, I understand it. But dang, I am so freaking sick of coming in last!

Lastly, he won't fully agree to NC. He did initially, but as I said, he resolve has weakened. What am I to do? I realize that we're not getting anywhere continuing in this pattern, and all it's doing is KILLING me. I'm so sick of hurting. I thought that once he left her, the hurt would leave and the healing would begin, but that's obviously not the case.

Hi Pix,

This mess you're in is about standing up for what you want and need. You've seen the alternative and it's not pretty.

You need to be clear on one aspect. Extraordinary precautions is something he does, and does willingly. Once you stated what you need to feel good about your M then it's up to him to keep it up. Use a line like... "It really hurts when you talk to her and I would feel much better if you sent a NC letter and would change your cell phone number". If she contacts him, it's his responsibility to call you and tell you right away.

Remember NC must be absolute and forever. If he's not willing to do that then you want to question why he's home and if this is acceptable to you.

Now before any of that, you need to deal with the reality of his withdrawal and the fact that you may be setting yourself up for a false recovery. Is it that he doesn't want to be the bad guy, or is he keeping his options open.

You want to be clear as to what you will and will not accept from him. These are your boundaries (If he wants to call them rules or demands, let him). But at the end of the day, if you do not find enough respect in yourself to enforce these boundaries, there is no way he will respect you enough to do so.

This is my fear, too. But I don't think it's the case. I think he's made his decision -- finally realizing that she's more trouble than she's worth and being with her is not the best choice. HOWEVER, he's weak. WEAK. He's an ADDICT. (See, I've got some Mimi in me. LOL) So, he knows he made the right choice, but he's an addict so he can't stop talking to her.

*I KNOW* what he should and should not be doing, but what can I do when he's the one who has to have the resolve?

I've asked him to do this, on more than one occasion, and he refuses.

I guess this is where I'm at. It's not acceptable. I guess I feared I would drive him away by making "demands" of NC. That was stupid of me.

yea, that.


Yes, you're right. Thank you.

I hope Mimi chimes in on this one, she's been down the false recovery trail and would be able to expand on this from experience.

IMO that's where consequences come into play. Have there been consequences set for his unwillingness to accept your need for NC?
Has trust been discussed? It sounds like he's expecting that you will have the same trust level you had prior to the A, which we both know is not possible right now. He needs to understand this.

Pix, he sounds like a reasonable guy. If you approach the subject by stating how all of this makes you hurt, do you think it would get through to him? This is causing you pain and he needs to know why.

and just what would the consequence be? i guess that's what stops me dead in my tracks -- i feel like i have no control. what are my options for consequences?

yes, we've discussed trust. he knows i don't trust him and understands why, and yet he gets mad at me for not trusting him. and he locks his phone b/c he says he doesn't trust me. but in reality he doesn't trust himself and knows he's given me no reasons to trust him. so basically, his reaction is anger.

i tried this this morning. his response was "what about my pain" (in being separated from her). he's still in selfish mode. however, i'm going to try again. sigh.

Please gather the strength to draw your boundaries and be quite firm here. There is no half-arsing this stuff. If you continue down this path, there is, most likely, a false recovery in your near future.

Don't settle for less. Withdrawal has to occur, one way or another, if this marriage is to succeed, and the only way to that is NC.

You know what the consequence is in this case. You fear that if you ask him to leave that he will never come back. It a legitimate fear to have Pix, but the alternative may be no better. That is a life with a Man that will never respect you. It's not like he is putting any effort in respecting your feelings. He's more concerned about you being empathetic towards him.

If he refuses the NC boundaries the same applies, you tell him to leave and come back when he's ready to make you his one and only, otherwise you will end up sharing him. That might seem ok for now, but will it be 2, 5, 10 years from now and you still feel like your number 2.

Have you talked to the OW? Do you know for sure that she didn't kick him out and the only reason he's home is because he had nowhere else to go? I ask because he doesn’t sound like he wants to be there.

{crying} yep, that's it.

we just spoke about it briefly. all he keeps saying is that he's trying to wrap it up w/ her. that he knows what he's doing is wrong. yet he still won't commit to NC.


yes, he left her. on sunday the 9th he attended her daughter's 16th birthday party and the fog lifted that day. he called me and asked me if he could come home. he said he didn't want to have to wonder if he'd be invited to his girls' 16th birthdays. the next morning, he called her at work and told her that he was leaving. she left a voice mail on my cell phone threatening to break my neck. nice. you see what kind of person he's gotten himself wrapped up with. later that night, she called and apologized for that. whatever.

i'm considering getting a restraining order because of that voice mail. what do you all think? the reason i haven't is because I don't want to piss my husband off. that's stupid though, right?

should i consider calling her? i'm curious what he's telling her but i have a feeling it would just hurt me more.

Is he aware of MB and what you have been learning? If so do you think he would buy into it?

She sounds like she could get violent. As far as a restraining order goes, if you fear that she will follow through, then it's probably not a bad idea.

I'd be more worried about your Why’s story. HE says that HE walked out on her, but you have no evidence to tell you that is the case, and you can't trust his word. The problem you have is that you probably can't trust her's either.

Pix be attentive to what he does over the next few weeks. Does he let you know where he goes, and will he get upset if you check up on him?

My concern is that he's telling you one thing yet doing another. For all you know he's trying to reconcile with her. You have no reason to trust him, and he's not giving you anything that would lead you towards regaining that trust.

Your goal here to to get a comitment to NC. If he is unwilling still you need to decide if you can live with that.

now? no. later? maybe. he's very adverse to anything that comes from anyone else. basically, he has a problem with authority. God? Forget about it. my pastor says it's the guilt. i hope that's true. he was raised in a very catholic family, so he has a strong christian background, but he HAD to let that go, otherwise he couldn't justify what he was doing.


she's a hick. plain and simple. even dh admits it. she's had a hard life, i think she knows no other way to react. i don't really think she's a threat, but that doesn't mean a restraining order wouldn't speak to her.

i really do believe this. based on what she said in her voicemail to me, i know he left her. She said, "well, you got what you wanted, he's coming back to you. i hope you're happy; you've ruined his life. if you break his heart, i'll break your neck." nice.


pretty much. he's reluctant to tell me, but he always does when pressed. the times when he doesn't want to tell me is when he's escaping to the bar (he has a drinking problem as well.)

i don't trust him. period. but i do believe him when he TELLS me things. what i don't trust about him are the things he chooses not to tell me. but i know he's doing those things, even when he doesn't tell me.

i agree. i can't live with no NC. we're in the driveway here. he's almost home. either he can or he can't. I've always believed, through these whole thing is that eventually he WILL, but it will be in his time. Much like things happen in God's time. I know I can't MAKE him do anything. Him or him.

Just keep your antenea up OK. Your pastor is hopefully right on the money and he's just dealling with the guilt.

oh, my antenna are always up. LOL

(((Pixie-girl)))

WELCOME BACK......

I missed you. I also wondered about you often. How about you stay with us this time???? and stay on GQII.

Ya I hear ya on all the things you are saying. Heck, I am this close to heading into R and I have a gazillion questions and worries on my plate about it. Anyway, I hope things continue to forge ahead for you. You really do need to define and defend your boundaries....it was the turning point for me...(you can read up on all of that on my thread...actually, I have 2 now...go back to my first one...its the one I was on when you left and goes to the night of March 13, when I confronted WS and BOW together at his place....lol....)....

Anyway, I wish I had more encouraging things to say and write, but my heart is just not in it at the moment....

give that beautiful baby some kisses for me....

not2fun

you did what? LOL

YEPPERS.... I confronted WS and BOW (B word and other woman put together...) at his place. Then I beat the crap out of HIM....quite an event.....remember how ALL this time my WS denied, denied, denied having an affair??? sigh....oh well...you have to read the story to appreciate it...

Anyway, It is beautiful out here and I need to shower and enjoy the rest of my afternoon...

not2fun

Are you going to let Pix know what your new nickname is or shall I?