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Serenity:


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so I'm doing a better job of letting God take care of what needs to be done. Praying often for WH to soften his heart, see the signs that God is putting in front of him, etc.


What you have shared lets me know that YOU of ALL people know how to FIGHT BATTLES...how to WAGE WAR..

It bothers me to see you remaining SO PASSIVE...

It's time to focus on PRAYER after you've done all that you can do...

GOD doesn't want us to sit back and let HIM do ALL the WORK...

Had you ever thought that GOD could be working through ME/through US, encouraging you to move forward with PLAN B...

I get so concerned about folks not working THE PLANS to RECOVER their marriages...

OH MY...

Last edited by mimi_here; 04/09/08 08:46 PM.

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i worked the plans

i worked on me

i didn't post here bust i read many of harley's books, i read post after post and I even had a few sessions with jennifer harley who helped write "suriviving an affair"

i went into plan B only in the hopes of restoring my marraige

if that's what a person wants from plan B, and their marraige is not restored, i don't beleive that plan B works for them

i never wanted to use plan B to give myself time and distance so that i could "lose my love" for my husband or to get over this

If/When that happens, i believe it will be in it's own time regardless of if plan B was used

plan B DID NOT work for me


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ivebeenwaiting, I read your thread. I'm sorry that you are where you are after so many years.

I won't say never, but as of right now Plan B doesn't fit well with me. I know I have many Vets who've been supporting me and cheering me on since I first started posting in December. I don't mean any disrespect to any of YOU! I do appreciate your support. I just haven't been convinced that being dark in Plan B with the possibility of him never coming home is better than what I/we have right now. I can't shut him out of my life and expect him to believe that I still love him. I know I have a lot of learning and growing to do. I have huge self-esteem issues to work on, I keep putting that off... because I'm not sure where to begin.

I'm not hopeless! I'm doing the best I can with what I feel in my heart.



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((((Serenity))))

I am so HAPPY for you that your sis is moving by you. That will be wonderful for you to have that support around you. You need it. About Plan B...I know what you mean. But as long as you can keep a gauge on how long you can handle the current situation, you will be ok. I know for me that unless there is no contact I cannot keep doing this. It is way too hard for me.

Anyway, this is about you and not me....hang in there honey, one day the snow will melt, the flowers will bloom, the sun will shine again, and we will all be stronger and happier people to enjoy it all...


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HI Serenity,

I'm checking in on you as well and wanting you to know I am thinking of you and praying for you.

{{{{{{{{{{{{Serenity}}}}}}}}}}


BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09
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hey serenity.



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Son 16 asked if WH was coming to dinner. I said he was invited, but probably not. Kids don't ask for or about him too much, they can text him at anytime, and he them. But when they ask about him it's sad.

ALMOST all of the snow is gone... geesh, I saw some tulips coming up... where I really didn't think they would have much of a chance because basically the soil isn't soil it's mostly sand. I am soooo looking forward to getting out and making the yard look nice!



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You still don't seem to understand that, IMO, WITHOUT DOING PLAN B, he is MORE LIKELY to fall more deeply in love with her...

PLAN B gives you a GREATER likelihood of RECOVERY...

I just can't understand how come you believe YOU know more about what results in MARITAL RECOVERY than DR. HARLEY...

I'm SAD for you, Serenity...

Unlike you, I wanted to do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to save our marriage...

PLAN B was the ONLY OPTION...

It was PLAN B that brought my H home...that's why I'm such a strong advocate of it...

You don't seem to understand..

I made it clear to my husband in a way that he FULLY UNDERSTOOD that I was not just blocking him out of my life...

I made it CLEAR to him that I DID PLAN B BECAUSE OF MY LOVE FOR HIM..that I DID NOT WANT TO LOSE MY LOVE FOR HIM..

HE DIDN'T LOVE ME at the time..I LOVED HIM...but he felt like he DID NOT LOVE ME...

I didn't want him back until HE FELT LOVE FOR ME AGAIN...that's what can happen during PLAN B..it's a case of ABSENCE MAKING THE HEART GROW FONDER..as Dr. Harley says..HE MISSED ME AND FEARED LOSING ME...






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Originally Posted by mimi_here
You still don't seem to understand that, IMO, WITHOUT DOING PLAN B, he is MORE LIKELY to fall more deeply in love with her...
Either way doing plan B or not doing it, I don't control his "love" for her... I just keep hoping and praying she's the scum I've been told she is.

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I just can't understand how come you believe YOU know more about what results in MARITAL RECOVERY than DR. HARLEY...
I don't know more than Dr. Harley, I know who my husband WAS, I know myself, and I know GOD, and I'm not giving up.

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Unlike you, I wanted to do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to save our marriage...
I want EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to save my marriage as well.

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It was PLAN B that brought my H home...that's why I'm such a strong advocate of it...
can you be totally sure that he wasn't already considering coming home? because with my wh, I never had to "find" him in his affair-from day one he didn't hide it, with him there is no fense sitting he KNOWS what he wants- out!

Quote
it's a case of ABSENCE MAKING THE HEART GROW FONDER..as Dr. Harley says..HE MISSED ME AND FEARED LOSING ME...

There's always the opposite of that as well "out of sight out of mind" As it is I'm "absent" from him 'cept for about 10 minutes a week that it takes us to go over the bills to decide how much money he'll take for the week.

Don't get me wrong here MIMI, I appreciate the support you've been giving me all along. I'm still not convinced it'll take plan B to get my husband (the one that loves me) to come home. I think it'll take a miracle from God.




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I think it'll take a miracle from God.
Yes it will.

I remember when I first started to consider having to go into Plan B, I was scared siftless that out of sight, out of mind. The real truth beyond any of this or that is we simply don't know what is going on in our WW minds. They are the men we used to know and maybe we really didn't even know them then.

We only know who we are and what is going on in our heads, and what we want is for our M to be restored.

So here I am almost a month into Plan B, today is 11 months from D-day and my WH is still absolutely in control and no sign of changing or coming home. In fact just the opposite.

What I have learned through Johnstwin, Mimi, Mark, and Foreverhers is that G-d will turn this into good for us, but we have to be willing to take the chance and let our H go and Let G-d have them. We can't control them, we can't change them because we aren't G-d. Only G-d can, and is it possible that us staying in the picture, mucking up the water is blocking G-d from doing what he wants to do which I believe is to ultimately restore our M.

You, I, Not, and the rest simpley don't know what it will take for our H to come home. We can't, we don't see the bigger picture, but I can assure you G-d does. If it will take a miracle from G-d like the parting of the red sea for the Jews, maybe Plan B is giving G-d the opportunity to create the miracle for it to happen.

Please consider, if Plan A hasn't brought him home, which in 85% of the cases it doesn't, and yours isn't any closer to coming home, what would it hurt to try Plan B if in the end your M may not be restored, but you were a better person for it. I so remember when personal recovery was nothing I desired, just my M being restored, but somewhere along the journey I realized that for my M to be restored I needed to become who G-d needed me to be, because who I was drove my H away and had a part in the destruction of my M.

{{{{{{{{Serenity}}}}}}}}

Last edited by QueeniesNewLife; 04/14/08 06:22 AM.

BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09
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Had you ever thought that GOD may be working through ME, through us to encourage you to do PLAN B?

Another PURPOSE of PLAN B is for your WH to REALIZE the SCUM she is. That is what MY HUSBAND and other WAYWARDS learned during PLAN B..the OW can't keep it up 24/7....

I can't convince you and I won't try anymore.

Yes, I'm POSITIVE that PLAN B brought my H home and HE WAS NOT PLANNING TO COME HOME UNTIL THEN...Remember, I've lived with him for the past 4 years and talk to him about it...I can't say that will happen in your case..but for sure, YOUR WAY, has a LOW, LOW LIKELIHOOD of success...YOUR WH IS NO DIFFERENT OR SPECIAL THAN OTHER WAYWARD..AND NEITHER ARE YOU DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER BETRAYED SPOUSE...

In PLAN B, the OW had to meet his needs 24/7 without any HELP from me, and SHE FAILED, BIG TIME...and he wanted the HELP from me..to make it better..to FILL IN the GAPS and I WAS NOT THERE and HE MISSED ME...

I don't think I have the WORDS to explain it any better...

YOU HAVE GOT TO BELIEVE IN THESE CONCEPTS and IN THESE PLANS...BELIEVE THAT GOD BROUGHT YOU HERE..so you can USE THEM and US...

IMO, you are making a BIG, BIG MISTAKE that will likely cost you your marriage...


This is a CHOICE that you have made...to be PASSIVE...

It's like you making the CHOICE not to opt for the CANCER SURGERY that has a CHANCE of SAVING YOUR LIFE..rather than have the SURGERY, you are choosing the PRAY for a MIRACLE... crazy..I DON'T GET IT...but I'm no longer gonna beat my head up against the wall with you...

GOD HAS PROVIDED YOU WITH THIS OPPORTUNITY and it is YOU that is passing it up...

It may seem that I am being hard on you but I wouldn't post this to you if I did not CARE...

I WANT SO DEEPLY FOR YOU, THE HAPPINESS THAT I EXPERIENCE IN MY LIFE EACH DAY..

Take care..carry on...YOUR WAY...


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if Plan A hasn't brought him home, which in 85% of the cases it doesn't, and yours isn't any closer to coming home, what would it hurt to try Plan B if in the end your M may not be restored, but you were a better person for it. I so remember when personal recovery was nothing I desired, just my M being restored, but somewhere along the journey I realized that for my M to be restored I needed to become who G-d needed me to be, because who I was drove my H away and had a part in the destruction of my M.

Queenie said it quite well.

Though it is scary to let go of him and even Dr Harley says that he only suggests separation as a last resort, the fact is that you are already separated. As you pointed out, you only see him about ten minutes per week now.

So I hear you asking the question, "What would Plan B do for him?" But that is really the wrong question. The correct question is "What will Plan B do for me?"

While if he doesn't see you at all, he might miss you, and if he gets nothing in the way of ENs being met from you it puts the pressure on the warthog to do the job all alone, but those are really only side effects of Plan B.

The purpose of Plan B is for YOU. It is so that you can live a life that does not keep you being hurt by the affair daily. It includes being free from being stood up by him and waiting by the phone to hear from him and jumping through hoops to make everything just right for him when he comes to see the kids only to have him not come inside or not show up at all.

Plan B lets you remain sane in the way you live your life, in spite of his insanity. Plan B lets you stabilize your children's lives so they aren't living in constant turmoil. It lets you sleep at night instead of worrying about whether what you said will help or hurt your cause.

And it lets any love you have left for him survive since continuing the way he is acting is a huge love buster and will eventually cause you to not only no longer love him, but to hate him at which point even if he were to beg you to let him come home, you would be likely to refuse.

I also lets the stress level of your life drop to manageable proportions. If you keep doing a real Plan A for too long, it takes your toll on your health. Stress increases your likelihood of heart and blood pressure problems, which we all know about. But it also increases your risk of infection from opportunistic diseases that your body can normally defend against without any trouble. I am personally all too familiar with this fact, having contracted a skin infection from a bacteria that is so common that everyone normally has it on their skin and it is in the air and ground all around us yet seldom causes any reaction in people at all. But it ate a 4 inch by 8 inch whole in the skin of my chest that required two surgeries, two week long hospital stays, 8 weeks off work, 4 without pay, and loss of any chance at a vacation for an entire year. It took many months of recuperation to have anything resembling normal life (could not take a shower from mid-January till early April) and to this day it still looks like a cube steak glued to my chest and there is a nerve that when stimulated somehow feels like I have just been plugged into the wall outlet.

What you fear more than that he will forget you if he doesn't have a reminder that you are still around is that you will forget him...

In days before the ability to create fire on demand, there were those who were responsible for carrying fire from place to place. While this sounds simple, it is anything but. If you carry a torch, it only lasts a short time and then is gone for good. If you try to carry a small flame such as a candle, it can easily be blown out by the wind. If you attempt to carry a continuing fire around and keep stoking it to keep it burning, you will seldom reach your goal as you can't count on finding suitable fuel along the way and so must carry that as well. If the road becomes hard you must abandon the source of keeping the fire burning in order to make progress.

So what these keepers of the fire did was to find a way to keep just a few tiny embers burning that could be carried along by only one person. No one else had to be involved, only the keeper of the flame.

And when the destination was reached, the fire keeper could turn that tiny glowing ember into a usable fire with only additional fuel being required instead of starting from scratch.

Your job in Plan B is to keep the embers glowing. You can't carry the entire fire along without his help to keep it going. Unless he adds to the fire it will eventually die and there is nothing you can do to prevent it.

But while you still have a tiny glowing ember of love left for him, if you nurture that ember and protect it from his efforts to extinguish even that, you will have enough there to turn it into a full blown conflagration on the day it is needed, the day he is ready to come home to you.

Statistically, that day will come. Though it is possible that his affair could be one of those statistical outliers that last forever, it is more likely that it is a typical affair that will eventually implode of its own accord and collapse of its own weight. In that case, he would be ready to come home if he knows how to get there. This is why a Plan B letter is better than simply drifting further apart. It gives him a roadmap to follow to get home when the affair is over, which it will eventually be in all but the most statistically insignificant of cases.

But Plan B does something for you that nothing else will do no matter how hard you try. It keeps you in love with him just enough that when he is ready to follow that roadmap, you are there waiting for him and ready to turn that ember back into flame. Without it, you will no longer want him and all you have done so far will be for nothing.

Plan B isn't about giving up your marriage. It is about keeping your hope alive...

Mark

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Plan B isn't about giving up your marriage. It is about keeping your hope alive...
And having the time to become the person that will have the necessary strength to recover your M when/if that time comes.




BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
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[/quote]There's always the opposite of that as well "out of sight out of mind" As it is I'm "absent" from him 'cept for about 10 minutes a week that it takes us to go over the bills to decide how much money he'll take for the week.

Don't get me wrong here MIMI, I appreciate the support you've been giving me all along. I'm still not convinced it'll take plan B to get my husband (the one that loves me) to come home. I think it'll take a miracle from God.[/quote]

Serenity,

There is no doubt that your head and heart need to be in synch going into Plan B. It sounds like you are just not emotionally ready to let go. When I say let go, I don't mean give up. I mean, let go and let God.

I see it as a way of truly stepping out on faith and giving your H over to God. You can't control his choices. You remove yourself from the emotional turmoil. You don't have to watch and monitor what is going on in his A, you start to focus on yourself and make a good life for yourself understanding that when he is ready to get on board and work on the M (which will be his choice to do so or not) he will meet the conditions that you set to regain your trust and set the foundation for a better M.

Right now, he can wean himself from you and slowly detach from you with your consent. He does not have to feel any consequences for his actions...you are still a part of the triangle..he is free to have his needs met by speaking to you if only for ten minutes a week...it's still a need..and eventually, he may not even want the ten minutes because he is sure you will always be there available if he wants to speak to you and have a need met...he is free to fall deeper in love with the OW without any conflict about it whatsoever...Plan B removes you from the pain of his choices and it allows you to save whatever amount of love you have for him in case reconcilliation is an option...IMHO, the respect you gain by enforcing boundaries is priceless. It will do wonders for your self-esteem.

You will come to make your own decisions in your own time. Just think about what types of choices you'd make if you weren't afraid of being out of sight and out of the mind of your WH. Making tough choices even when you are afraid sometimes brings the most success......When you start to move out of fear of Plan B, and start to embrace your own personal stregnth and power, it will become easier to see the benefits of Plan B.

No one here can force you to go into Plan B, however, you are being encouraged because it gives you an opportunity to possibly reach recovery of your M and DEFINITELY recover yourself.



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Mark:

I sooo respect you and your advice. You are offer so much WISDOM..

But, I think you may be missing something which I think I GET about what Serenity is saying..

Please excuse me, Serenity, if I'm wrong and there's a GREAT CHANCE that I am WRONG...

Mark, you said these things...

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So I hear you asking the question, "What would Plan B do for him?" But that is really the wrong question. The correct question is "What will Plan B do for me?"

This is MY CONCERN about Serenity..her SELF-ESTEEM..she is NOT CONCERNED about HERSELF..and that's a HUGE part that I left out of my last post to her. Her WH cannot/will not LOVE her UNTIL she begins to LOVE HERSELF..

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While if he doesn't see you at all, he might miss you, and if he gets nothing in the way of ENs being met from you it puts the pressure on the warthog to do the job all alone, but those are really only side effects of Plan B.

I RESPECTFULLY disagree with you on this point. IMO, THIS IS THE PRIMARY VALUE of PLAN B. Read over again what DR. HARLEY says about PLAN B. If I can find it, I will post it. DR. HARLEY DOES NOT describe PLAN B as PRIMARILY being FOR the WS. IT NEVER WAS THE CASE FOR ME...For me, IT WAS THE LAST RESORT PLAN FOR RECOVERY OF OUR MARRIAGE..

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The purpose of Plan B is for YOU. It is so that you can live a life that does not keep you being hurt by the affair daily. It includes being free from being stood up by him and waiting by the phone to hear from him and jumping through hoops to make everything just right for him when he comes to see the kids only to have him not come inside or not show up at all.

Again, speaking FOR SERENITY..This does not interest HER. I think THIS is the SIDE EFFECT of PLAN B. When I went into PLAN B, it was PRIMARILY as a PLAN to recover my marriage. I didn't care that much about being stood up by my husband. I continued to want to SEE HIM and to be with him AT ANY COST. Just like Serenity, I continued to have MUCH LOVE for him. I had lived for YEARS with that stuff. My SELF-ESTEEM began growing as a result of the support here and SKY-ROCKETED as a RESULT of PLAN B..but I did not know that THEN...

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Plan B lets you remain sane in the way you live your life, in spite of his insanity. Plan B lets you stabilize your children's lives so they aren't living in constant turmoil. It lets you sleep at night instead of worrying about whether what you said will help or hurt your cause.

SORRY..NONE of this was true for ME during PLAN B and I don't want others to think that this may be the case. This is why Dr. Harley recommends antidepressants during PLAN B. I was not sane. I had sleepless nights. I LONGED FOR MY HUSBAND. THE ONLY REASON THAT I WAS ABLE TO KEEP GOING BECAUSE I BELIEVED IN MY HEART THAT IT WAS THE ONLY OPTION I HAD LEFT TO RESTORE OUR MARRIAGE!!

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And it lets any love you have left for him survive since continuing the way he is acting is a huge love buster and will eventually cause you to not only no longer love him, but to hate him at which point even if he were to beg you to let him come home, you would be likely to refuse.

I agree with you on this INTELLECTUALLY but I NEVER GOT THERE..I continued to LOVE MY HUSBAND...but may have EVENTUALLY lost my love for him..but MY LOVE BANK was so full I guess. We had been MARRIED for so long and had had many PREVIOUS great years before the affair...

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What you fear more than that he will forget you if he doesn't have a reminder that you are still around is that you will forget him...

I'm not HEARING this from Serenity, Mark. She FEARS that HE WILL FORGET HER and I'm trying to help her to BELIEVE that HE WILL NOT!!

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Plan B letter is better than simply drifting further apart. It gives him a roadmap to follow to get home when the affair is over, which it will eventually be in all but the most statistically insignificant of cases.

EXACTLY!!

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Plan B isn't about giving up your marriage. It is about keeping your hope alive...

So, I say PLAN B isn't about giving up your marriage. PLAN B is just like it says, A PLAN..

IMO, it's YOU that is GIVING UP YOUR MARRIAGE..BY NOT WORKING THIS PLAN...


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What I'm saying is discussed on pages 79-83 of SAA. Nothing on those pages states how PLAN B is FOR THE betrayed spouse and I read those pages over and over again during MY PLAN B...

And HERE is what DR. HARLEY states in the article on this website..

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But plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the wayward spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again.

Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.

So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.

Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.

Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?

While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s pouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."



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Serinity,

I'm just checking on you. Haven't heard from you in a while and I hope everything is alright. I'm praying for you.


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STBXWW, 41, Serial Cheater
D-Day #1 5-26-2006 (Our Wedding Aniversary)
D-Day #2 12-26-2007
D-Day #3 5-11-2008
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,499
Amazin...

Serenity's sister moved in town this week, she has been busy with that.....

I'll email her and let her know to get on her thread and update everyone....


not2fun

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,643
Q
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Q
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,643
Thanks NOT,

Hey Serenity, I am thinking about you. What's up?


BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09
WH and OW broke up 1-09
Started over 7-09
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 674
H
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H
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 674
Mimi you explained plan B so well....I also have a problem believing that WH won't forget me...do they really think about us?How long were you in plan B?
I tend to think the longer we are apart the easier it is for WH to stop thinking about us.Its been 16 months in all for me...a strict plan B since end of Feb.
Sorry to intrude on your thread I always lurk and read the plan Bers threads..we all in the same boat!!


BS;ME43,WH45
DS19,DS16
DDay:6Dec06
WH left12Dec06
DIV:3Dec08
WH marries OW 21days later!







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