BobPure,

I just wanted to add my .02 cents for what it's worth. You know my story very well and admittedly, I still have my own struggles to deal with. I don't claim to be "wonderfully recovered" yet, but I am doing everything in my power to get there. First, I have participated in quit a few of your theory discussions like the "Perpetual LB" discussion because I do believe that they have their merit. I find that knowledge is power and it's much easier to fight the enemy you know than the one you don't. Really though, these discussions are just an exercise in futility. The answer we are in search of doesn't exist. It takes away from the real question. Can we let the past be the past and live for the NOW?

With that being said, let me just point out something that a very wise, good hearted poster once told me....




So let's look at your current thoughts of your situation


From the looks of the above post you have plenty to work with Bob. It's obvious from the things that you say about squid that you do still love her very dearly. I would also say that from the things she is doing that she also loves you dearly. After all is said and done isn't that what really matters? That is the building blocks for what we are all here trying to achieve.

Bob, you have garnered the respect of many on these forums myself included. Some of your earlier posts quit literally my have saved my marriage, like "The MB Toolkit" and your "Loving Detachment" explanation. You have an fantastic support system that would stand behind you and help you when times get down. So my challenge to you is to bandage up those old wounds and make another charge up the hill. Only this time, don't stop the check the progress, because you know they will always be there. What you are doing now isn't going to get you where you want to be. I think if you approached squid, she would be willing. This is exactly what I'm going to do. The question is are you coming with me or do I have to drag you kicking and screaming.......

And don't give me any more of the chit about you being permanently broken either. Recently, I was watching a special about the victims of the Rhode Island Greate White concert fire. On this show, they had a young man that had suffered 3 degree burns over 80% of his body. In the past 5 years, he has had 117 operations to deal with the scaring. You know what? He was still happy and grateful to be alive. The human spirit is capable of overcoming anything no matter how unbearable it me seem on the surface.

Sincerely,
Want2Stay

P.S. This goes for you too Still_Crazy and Krazy71.

I think the statistics on the people that come here would be invaluable, I'd love to see Harley send out an annual survey to all registered members or something, just out of plain old curiousity.

I do want to take issue with something that was said, and I don't even remember who said it, but they said something about the "amatuers posting poor advice" or something like that.

I think that in a perfect world, everyone that came here would just call the Harleys and get the word from them. Thing is, we all know that it woudln't work that way. This forum feeds thier business, it also provides a very valuable service to those without the means or the desire to contact a counselor. The Harley's know what goes on here, they know what thier plans for a good marriage are, and they must feel that by and large most of what occurs on the forum is in accordance with thier beliefs, right? I can't imagine that anyone could hope for 100% success rate through these amatuer forums, but they must feel they do more good than harm, much more I suspect.

Finally, when I got here, I was picked up by some very good people, all of them very strong in MB knowledge, all of them having had some degree of success (or what I would call success) using the program in thier own lives. Not all recovered thier marriages, I knew coming in that there was a good chance that I didn't recover my own marriage. I was ok with that. I wanted to give it the best shot I could, but I had boundaries as to what I would accept going forward, and those boundaries were encouraged and defined by my fellows here. I am very glad that is how it happened for me. I would hate to think of being advised by those that really haven't had any kind of experience that I would consider successful. I respect Aphelion for keeping his family together, but I personally don't think that living life they way he does is anything I could do, and I don't think it really correlates with any kind of MB conception of recovery. There's a few other situations like that, and I think people with these situations should strongly consider the impacts thier negative sentiments could have on those whose situations are far from hopeless.

Well W2S i would have to disagree with you on this, the simple fact of the matter is that it is up to each BS to determine whether or not they "Can we let the past be the past and live for the NOW?" as you put it.

It is our decision to make and we come here trying to figure out if it is something our WSs are doing or not doing or is something we are doing or not doing or is it just simply that we can NOT get past the past.

Still_Crazy


You more than welcome to disagree.


Remember I am a BS also. I held the same values of my marriage as you. I don't claim to have all the answers and you are right it is up to each BS to decide where their recovery takes them.

You have admittedly said that your FWH is doing all he can to repair the damage his CHOICE caused. Don't forget though that the CHOICE you are making is just as detramental to your future happiness and recovery. I wish you the best and hope you find the answer you're looking for.

Want2Stay

I know that i have said my H is doing everything he can and i know that it is my CHOICES now that are hurting our recovery. As far as my future happiness goes, i am not really happy now (though not unhappy just not happy) so i do not know if my CHOICES will make me more or less happy. I do not know if i can get past the past. Only time will tell whether i stay or go.

Still_crazy, Want2stay, and the rest:

Sorry, I only post during the week.

I don't think my problems stem from my W's actions, or lack thereof, since d-day. My problem is with infidelity in general, starting from when I was a child. It's one thing to think, "It won't happen to me" before infidelity hits you...it's another thing entirely to know that infidelity would be nightmare, talk about it with your spouse openly for years, then have that nightmare become reality. Infidelity has been like a personal demon for me since I was 8 years old.

The reason I continue to tough it out is because I can see myself making SLOW progress, when I look at the big picture. Maybe there is some hope. I intend to find out for sure.

Don't worry about the threadjacks. I have no problem with others enjoying themselves on my topic!

I am right there with you having experienced the same things. I can say, that for me..it added an additional layer of [censored] to the whole mess.

I am happy to see you are making some progress.

Krazy, when I read this very first post, it sounded like you were making progress. You are recognizing that your struggle comes from within, not always from something your FWW is doing or not doing.


I can see how this is EXTRA painful, on top of the infidelity itself, the fact that you discussed your pain stemming from your childhood and your parents.

On a similar note, I discussed my issues stemming from growing up without a father, and watching my mother struggle, and how I never wanted that for my children. Yet, here we are, me struggling just the same. It's painful to KNOW some of the thoughts that may be raging thru my son's head now. It's a really good thing that I always made it a goal to gain more education and a better place in the work force than my mother (we were POOR when I was a kid). I probalby always thought, deep inside MEN LEAVE, and so I fought to be stable.

Now, before anybody gets their feathers ruffled, I know ALL men don't leave, as evidenced by Apelion, and MEDC, MR. Wondering, Krazy, BobPure, BigKahuna, SDGuy, Chrisner, and on and on, it has just not been MY experience so far. I will be working hard to NOT let that ruin my chances of a fine personal recovery, and hopes for a BETTER future.

Good morning Resonance,

You are in danger of becoming my favorite poster, and for obvious reasons.

There sure is a lot to respond to in your most recent post to me. But I am going to turn it down a notch. Today is busy. And I am going to lunch with my coworker (read on).

I threw a mental dart at your post and selected this para as the only one I will address:

> So, not only are you discussing your intimate marital details with a female co-worker...now you are taking her to lunch...and I am the one who "doesn't know what I'm doing?" Interesting.

More interesting than you know.

Your para reminds me of the big, dark brooding 18’th century armoire we have in the study. It has collected old useless stuff inside like a magnet for years. I am loath to open it because of what will tumble out and I’ll be drawn into sorting the piles and making a run to Goodwill. But let’s open the door a crack and take a step back anyway.

I spy:

A DJ
A misconception
Two digs
An error
An insinuation
A passive aggressive
An English mistake
A willful ignorance
A dusty prejudice
A projection
A real fear

Here are the facts:

The only time I have lunch with any coworkers is as a group. Boundaries, you know.

I am taking several coworkers to lunch today to celebrate a major patent I was recently awarded. She will be one of them and, yes, technically I may be welching on the bet since I was going to pay anyway.

I do not care who knows about the VLTA. I don’t discuss details, but I answer questions. I told FWW when she agreed to the Plan B letter I was never going to pretend to anyone it didn’t happen. She agreed. Many of FWW’s coworkers knew about her VLTA for years and kept her dirty secret. Seems just to me that if her coworkers knew mine can too. None of this bothers me. It shouldn’t bother you.

This particular coworker is a BW. I directed her to MB some time ago. She does not post but we occasionally discus MB methods and results (or general lack of).

I could get fired having an A with any employee. Being the lab director and a Fellow she reports to me.

You do not know me, so you have an excuse for your prejudices, but know that I have had many opportunities for A’s over the years – too many to count. Even during the decade of the VLTA when absolutely none of my ENs were being met in the least (where is the EN theory of affairs now?) Some were amazingly blatant and overt opportunities. Some were actual requests by very beautiful women. But I will never commit adultery. It is a mortal sin, after all. Besides, I know I’d get caught almost immediately. Even though you think I am not much of a man, lacking in testosterone has advantages - I can cooly reason ahead fairly accurately.

You accuse me of not being a real man, SF not my number one EN, so it is illogical to immediately thereafter insinuate adultery.

I’m not feeling the love, Resonance.

That para was more about you than me, I think.

WoohOOOO, Appy!!!!

I do hope your company is the one I just double down'd my shares of.

Discovery companies are the way to go right now, ya know.

Aphelion,


Never did I say, or even insinuate that you weren't a "real man." I am really not trying to be mean or disrespectful to you or anyone else here (especially BSs). We all have our struggles, we all have our boundaries, and we all have a pretty good sense of what what will make us happy (an what will not). If your life makes you happy, then who am I to question that fact? As I said before, the ONLY reason I took exception to your post(s) was due to what I perceived to be an insult to many here. If that is not how you meant it, or if it is simply the loss of intention through the confines of the written word, then- MY BAD!

And as for the line about my paragraph being more about me than you, well...it is no secret that I am the FWW. I make no attempt to hide that fact. Maybe by having been there, it has made me a little more sensitive to the warning signals from those here or IRL...dunno. Maybe having experienced the "fall" first hand, I saw in your post what others may have missed.

Either way, none if it really matters, does it? It has been a great sparring match we have had! And I don't even have to "win," because it wasn't my goal in the first place. My GOAL is and will ALWAYS be to try to pursuade people to strive to acheive all that they want out of life. On this site in particular, it will be that happiness which pertains to marital recovery after infidelity. We will never agree what "should" be versus what "is," I'm afraid, so I will leave you with this...




That made me laugh, as did the "I Spy" list, among other things! I wish you all the best, and hope that you DO "feel the love" in your life. It's what you deserve, after all!

But, I do have to point out one more thing- with all of the examples you give of what a wonderful, intelligent, generous, unbelievably fantastic person you are in all of your posts (are you a saint?)- you should take care, because your EN for Admiration is showing!!!

So Appy,

You've had intimate discusions with this CW regarding the dismal state of your M's? Would this be correct? I don't want to put words into your mouth.

Well I guess that's not too harmful to your own M is it? Does your W know you've had these discussions with another W?
If so, how does she feel about that? Have you had a POJA about these discussions?

Sorry Appy, this is my own DJ: you should forego that lunch; you're already full of yourself.

If I could speak russian, perhaps I could explain it better.

Jerry

Hi MBers! Just a reminder that the moderators are watching this thread, and hope that everyone will remember to keep this discussion helpful and respectful.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Krazy,

I completely relate to your statements. My ex KNEW the one thing I could not handle. He KNEW the ultimate thing that would hurt me and that was infidelity. And what does he do? He had SEVERAL affairs. Each one took a little piece out of me. Each one sucked a little more life out of me.

I had dealt with a lot in my childhood including my father's infidelity. I knew it would be the one thing I could never handle. It was be the ULTIMATE betrayal. And it was.

My ex and I had our problems but the cheating.. It was a very deliberate thing he did to hurt me.

mlhb

Thank you Maverick.....yes
Jerry

Know something MLHB,

I think most WS's do it because they beleive they can and get away with it.

Of course this immediately points out the difference from who is faithful, and one who never really agreeded to be faithful.

The REAL boundary is enormous, and doesn't show up until discovery.

At that point, recovery is a mountain that many of us feel we will never be able to climb. Nonetheless, we try, sometimes fruitlessly, but nonetheless we try.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Of course my W was unhappy, too. Rather than gather the nerve to D, she decided to treat herself to a f_ckbuddy as my payment for her agreeing to stay. Apparently it was so much fun that she decided to continue that behavior even after things improved dramatically. This was not ever presented to me as an option, because she knew I'd have told her where to go.

She knew exactly how much it would hurt me if I found out, and how anti-infidelity I was. She deliberately chose the one thing that would hurt me the most...I wouldn't be at all surprised that the more the BS is against infidelity before d-day, the bigger turn-on it is for the WS to cheat...the more we're against it, the more "forbidden" and "naughty" it is.

[censored].

Quote:I wouldn't be at all surprised that the more the BS is against infidelity before d-day, the bigger turn-on it is for the WS to cheat...the more we're against it, the more "forbidden" and "naughty" it is.
[censored].

Krazy, you reminded me what I had said the WH a few timesduring our marriage, if I ever caught him I would kill her and hurt him.
Now I know what I've been doing wrong...she lives!! LOL
JOKE in case its not apparent.

Yeah, I kinda half-giggled, half thought, "You're right".