suamico
Just to clarify, it was OM W that saw our phone # on OM cell phone and that is why she called.

Melody
I hear you on keeping emotions out. Funny in some ways that WW says I do not show emotions enough, even asking me why I don't get mad about all of this. Last couple months I have been perhaps too emotionless with WW. I am able to generally keep emotions in check. I let them fly on long drives by myself or talking to counsellor.

She has likely been living in he11 for a long time wondering what is happening in her life, suspecting something. What a horrible way to live. The woman is living a lie and there are 3 ppl who know the truth about her life and won't tell her.

I am sure she does wonder why she is able to destroy you and you just sit there and take it. That is not normal. I bet she wants a man who is man enough to put her in her place.

You won't even fight for your marriage. You won't fight for HER.

Here is something you should understand about women, lost. Our feelings of LOVE are very contingent upon our feelings of RESPECT. Women do not respect men they can run over. And with no respect, there is no love.

Lost,

You wife is sensing that you are not willing to fight for her. She believes she is not worth the trouble to fight for. You can change that.

Melody,
that was a good wake up call. I never looked at my lack of emotion as not caring - do need to show her that I am willing to fight for HER. She did ask why I didn't stop her from going to meet him last time (even though I had no idea he would be in the same city she had to go to for an appointment).

This is not HEALTHY. Suppressing righteous, justified anger is not a sign of mental health. You should have a RIGHTEOUS ANGER when you and your children are being UNJUSTLY harmed. Anger is a HEALTHY REACTION to abuse.

I bet you are terribly depressed trying to suppress your anger, arent you?

As true as that may be it is very hard for a BH, (well for me anyway) not to just.want.to.kill the OM. Now how's that fer fightn fer yer wo-man? Think how many poor saps are doing 25 yrs hard time for that right this minute as I type. Back in the wild west we could shoot horse thieves. Imagine what they did to wife thieves.

Ok, maybe WW do, in all their fogginess, think their man(the husband that is) needs to fight for them to gain their "respect", but all that should have been worked out during the "I DO" day, so when OM pops into picture, it may be kind of hard to respect a woman who decides she has the RIGHT to push a knife in and twist hard while hoping for a little respect in return.

Sorry, I'm just rambling here, kinda triggered a little reading that. I know what you are saying makes sense in the MB sense.

Melody
I have always been conflict averse kind of person ("why can't we all just get along" kind of person) so I have developed mechansims to deal with the anger. Sure, I am very pissed off and what this is doing to my family and me, but I have fallen back to my old stand-bys and found ways to cope. We have been to 3 MC sessions (1 was a "farce" because the A wasn't out yet and I'm sure the other 2 were equally as non-sensical (sp?) because NC was not in place). The C hit on that key point - my anger - and it felt good to get it out in the open.

This is one thing I am working on in IC - being more open with feelings (in a constructive rather than destructive way - avoid LB right?). I am getting the hang of it, slowly.

I have gone through a bit of the depression stage (lost 16 pounds, 2 hours sleep, no appetite) but that seems to have subsided. IC has helped that along.

Have you ever noticed that conflict avoiders always cause MORE CONFLICT in their avoidance? It just amazes me and I wonder why we call them conflict avoiders, because they are really anything BUT. Becasue of their avoidance, the conflict spirals out of control, causing more damage, more conflict.

So, conflict avoiders don't really avoid conflict at all, they just cause more of what they claim to hate.

For me, I also hate conflict, but I avoid it by confronting the situation head on, not by doing nothing and allowing it to spiral out of control.

It seems like so-called conflict [non] avoiders would eventually figure this out. :eek:

Dear L&LA:

Welcome to the Board! I am likewise relatively new, and my story shares many similarities with yours.

One fact in your story which may be to your benefit (if saving your marriage is a bene) is that you discovered the affair early. Based on what I went through with my FWW, and from the beaucoup research I did on the subject, your wife is in the infatuation stage of a relationship. While these infatuations are most common in teenagers, anyone, especially someone feeling emotionally neglected, can fall into one when someone else fills up their emotional bank sufficiently.

It happened to my FWW. Like you, we had grown distance, living in what is often called "parallel marriages". Then along comes a guy, a friend of hers, who was no doubt a "player" in his younger days, and couldn't resist the temptation of a vulnerable women. They went to the movies together once, as friends and which I knew about, but within two weeks, they were in bed together for a whole weekend.

The point I'm trying to get to is that these affairs often start as an infatuation, the romantic love phase, where the person is a "fool for love". It is also called the "honeymoon phase" To the lovers, they are in the greatest ecstacy they've probably ever experienced. But several things you need to know. First, during the infatuation phase, your spouse doesn't care about you. They usually aren't mean to you, and are often kind, but they don't care about you. Deal with it. It is impossible to reconcile with your WW during this phase; she has no interest, and is only interested in her OM. Like you, I couldn't believe or understand this person I had known and loved for 23 years. It's not them. They're irrational, under the influence of hormones they don't control. Just be patient.

But, the thing to remember next is that this romantic, infatuation, honeymoon phase has a finite lifetime. Some articles on it have said it lasts 3 - 6 months, some say as long as 18 months. It can't last forever, because our brains can't keep putting out the hormones and neurotransmitters that cause it in the first place. After this first, infatuation phase ends, then they enter a second phase, called by different names such as the power phase. It is basically characterized by the lovers becoming more selfish and "me" centered, looking to see what the lover does for him/her, rather than what they want to do for their lover. This is when they have their "first fight", and several more afterwards.

Sometimes couples work through this power struggle, sometimes they don't. If they do work through it, then a more true form of love grows between them, the type of love that long-time married couples share. If they don't get through this phase, then they break up, either suddenly in a big fight, or just drift apart.

It appears you caught your wife's affair while still in the infatuation phase. That is good. For now, at least on my experience, the best you can do is Plan A. Work on improving any love busters you may have been exhibiting, including "Independent Behaviour". Always put your best self forward to her. Be kind and understanding, don't get angry, don't criticize. The point is, you want to plant an image in her mind that you're improving and becoming a desirable person again. You should continue "Plan A"-ing as long as the infatuation continues. But, you want to keep an eye for when the infatuation is wearing off (and wear off it will).

For me, once I saw it was wearing off (after months of Plan A), I first made WW know I was about ready to move on. I didn't actually date another women (and would advise against it at this point), but let her find out that one was interested in me. I also gradually moved into a Plan B, where I moved out (which was actually necessitated by a new job), refused to take her calls for several days, etc. At that point, she made some effort to end the affair. However, she regressed several times, only to come back when I cut her off. Finally, from the best I can figure, OM became as tired of being treated as a yo-yo as was I, and was becoming increasingly jealous of WW's continued relations with me, that he broke off the affair.

The point of all this is, IMHO, for whatever experience I might have, is that the critical time to save your marriage is about 3-6 months after the affair starts. Before then, and she's still in infatuation, and is irrational and doesn't care about you. After that, they'll have time to work through their new difficulties, and form a more true love bond. It could then be too late.

P.S., I agree with the other posters, in that you should expose their affair. I did, and she was furious. But she got over it, and the shame she received from her family at least prodded her along.

Best of luck

Hi Galoot. What an unfortunate place to meet new people!

Just wanted to clarify something. You said "...the critical time to save your marriage is about 3-6 months after the affair starts. Before then, and she's still in infatuation..." But I though infatuation could last 6 months or longer. So is the above 3 - 6 months after the affair starts, or 3 - 6 months after the infatuation period is over? Thanks.

The critical time is when the infatuation phase is over, regardless of how long that might take. Typically, from what I've read, its 3-6 months after the affair/infatuation started, but sometimes can last longer.

In my case, I sensed my WW's infatuation began ending after only about 2-1/2 months. I sensed this because she started asking me questions, such as about child support laws (OM has had 4 children by 3 other women) and rules on revoking parole (OM is a convicted felon drug dealer, out on parole). You'd want to look for signs that WS is having some doubts about her A.

Exposure typically hastens the end of infatuation and introduces great stress into the affair. The affair is based on a fantasy and when it is exposed, it is not so pleasant to have to see oneself through the eyes of rational people.

Others view the affairees with shock, disgust and disappoinment, which is a huge blow to the affair. It is like turning on the bright lights in a crack house and bringing in all the neighbors. No fun to get high when everyone is looking on in horror. Sort of takes the fun out the high!

I will not likely be able to post for next couple days, but able to read on blackberry. Don't think I have vanished. Will update when back from family travels.

I agree. My FWW's infatuation seemed to end, or at least begin to subside, after the A was revealed, especially to our two grown children. Their disgust and disrespect of her behavior was a big shock to her (typical of WS's life in lala land) and gave her a big reality check.

There's ways to expose to children in an age appropriate manner. Older kids obviously understand "your mom/dad is having an affair".

Younger ones do not.

You will be scared to do this. But you MUST do this.

It's like getting surgery. No one ever says, "Oh, yeah! Surgery! Great!"

It's something that is painful and must be done in order to get better.

Hi all. Been a bit so thought I would update. The update is that there really is no update. WW continues to blame me for this or that, always having something. I do not get argumentative, try to validate her feelings (and this IS HARD when she says we didn't discuss something that I know we did but at a time when her mind was elsewhere, like on the A).

The vacation was good. Family time was great. The kids loved the vacation property and kept asking when we could come back. This undoubtedly put more stress om WW.

Couple time was short - with 3 kids in a small place, tough for privacy. I maintained a pleasant demeanor I think - easy to do with the kids.

Some random things I noticed on vacation that may be "good signs":
- Buying some food that keeps long,
-doing additional redecorating in condo,
-the last couple days, not being overly concerned when I walked in the room and she was changing (she has been changing in the bathroom for the last month when I am around),
- not avoiding accidentally touching me if we walk by (not initiating contact but not going out of way to ensure we do not touch) and
- getting more than 1 word answers to questions.

Don't get me wrong, there are still other confusing things that make me wonder what she is thinking, but maybe the above are reactions to me being nice but not pursuing. Am I reading too much into this?

The more I see our family together, the more convinced I am that I need to continue my persistence in this - we belong as a 5 person unit. That in itself is enough incentive to do whatever is needed

Hi all. Any thoughts on the post below? Also, how would you respond to WW question as to why I am staying around and not giving up when she cannot see this progressing (even though she said a couple weeks back she is willing to be my "life partner" (what the hell is that?) and raise our family, work on our relationship in every way except the intimacy which is dead)?

Thanks.