onlyucan,

There is a very good program for LDS men (other, too) with pornography and sexual addictions. It is called Lifestar and you should check it out. It is for the addict, but they also have a significant component for the spouses. Because we all know that is it very hard on the spouse and their self esteem to be married to a sex addict.......but there are other factors you would be dealing with as well. Look for the website. I don't know where you live, but see if they have one in your own area.

Most bishops and stake presidents are only just finding out about this program and may not know to refer you.

I can't believe you have been dealing with this for 6 years. That would affect my weight as well. I lost 35lbs when I found about about my H's affair and OC......but then gained most of it back during the depression phase (for me) about 1-1/2 years later. Lots of factors were in play.

You will only add to the resentment you are feeling (I totally understand the restentment!), if you lose the weight FOR him. His acting out is not because of you weight, it is about him. Losing the weight will not guarentee his faithfulness in any way.

It should be about YOU and your self esteem and concern for your health and future. About YOU getting yourself in order for you, whether you stay or go.

Only you can tell when it is time to go. The church officials will not try to convince you to stay under adultery circumstances if you are done with this. But they can offer support, if you want to stay.

But they are not the counselors that you need. Many people us them as marriage counselors and they are not trained for that at all. You both need counseling (you, even if you leave). It will take much effort to get past this either way and you need some experienced help. The church and it support can't do this.

Your H will need to submit to a disciplary court.......if he will not, you may have your answer. It was a very unique experience for my H and me, for him to go through this. It is meant to be a "court of love" (my words), to help the person work their way through their repentance process. It is an awesome event.

But it is not about the spouse....very little. You will need to find your help other places. I was given good counsel about forgiveness, but it is a much longer process than I would have ever guessed. And you won't have access to these leaders.

I am so sorry this has been going on for so long. You two have much work ahead and it will take both people working hard to fix the multitudes of problems that exist. But the biggest one, that must be handled first is the porn and adultery. And you did not cause the adultery. Nothing justifies the decisions he made to step out of the marriage for sex and relationships. Nothing.

When you get ready to lose weight (really ready) I could give you a hand in direction. I am a registered dietitian with an MS in nutrition, as well, in private practice. I can answer your questions and help you direct your course to get started.

This is a great place for support, as you know. ForeverHers will offer good advice, but his differences with the LDS church is that he does not believe we are Christians. Avoid that topic and he can be helpful. Avoid the church altogether with him, and others......just focus on your issues. Religion is separate from the help you need from here. And there are experts to give it.

Take care!

LBelle, I believe that is what I said, as you can see from the following quotation from my last post, and onlyUcan knows me as I was one of the first to post to her back in 2002. I'm not sure why you thought it was necessary to highlight that as a "warning" of some sort for onlyUcan, but if you'll feel better about it, I can certainly withhold any further comments and not cause any consternation.


You see, LBelle, you are correct about my stance regarding what it means to be a "Christian," but my intent was not to "proselytize" anyone, it was to offer what help I could regardless of our differences in beliefs.



This is sad, if true. But if true, it is also good advice to seek trained counselors for help in saving a marriage.

Anyway, I'm going to have to consider letting others try to help so as to not offend anyone.

Dear Larry,
My husband got locked up for trying to buy a prostitute in a police sting and he is saying they gave him a lesser charge.What do you think the chances are that he has been seeing them all along and just got caught.I left him after being with him for 23 yrs.he started in porn.

You see, LBelle, you are correct about my stance regarding what it means to be a "Christian," but my intent was not to "proselytize" anyone, it was to offer what help I could regardless of our differences in beliefs.


FH, no one said anything about you proselyting. Merely a clarification about the fundamental difference you meantioned and that she need not go there. I wasn't here in 2002, but I did see the last thread on this topic.

Feel free to help her in any way you can. She needs all the advice she can get. From all different views.



This is sad, if true. But if true, it is also good advice to seek trained counselors for help in saving a marriage.

Anyway, I'm going to have to consider letting others try to help so as to not offend anyone.

[/quote]

It isn't sad that these spiritual leaders can't be her marriage counselors. That is not their function. They would be able to help simpler marriage problems, but not one like this. The LDS congregations are run by a "lay" clergy and they come from all different professions, which they work at during the week.

For example, an attorney, who may happen to be the the leader at the time, has no training in marriage counseling or sexual addictions. He is a spiritual leader and can offer that type of help to all the issues. But Ucan and her H are requiring much more than that alone. Their issues are likely to be far beyond someone without experience and professional training if they are to succeed.

The leaders are caring, devoted people who offer all of their time and efforts to the church for free, and can't be all things. They are given lots of guidance about when and where to refer people who pass their expertise.

Like an alcoholic who starts with a couple of drinks then progresses from there, a porn addict easily slides into the use of prostitutes. I haven't a clue if this was your husband's first time or after several hundred times. Only he knows the truth and until he is repentant, if he ever reaches that state, he is very unlikely to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Larry

Imagination:

Thank you for your story and for your honesty. I do believe that the weight needs to come off for me AND that my WH deserves to have a fit W. It's no different than a spouse deserving to have a healthy, non alcoholic spouse, etc.

I am committed to getting healthy and letting the ripple effect be what it is.

Kayla,

Perfect post! My D is actually 20 and has a baby. She lives with us and is very capable of helping around the house. I talked with her today and shared the extreme importance of her assistance and shared that it was one of the major obstacles that her step father and I have. She knows that he does alot, in fact, he is the one to watch her baby before I get home from work while she goes to school 4 nights a week. He lets me go to bed at 9 pm every night and he stays up until she returns from home in case the baby wakes up. He is the one to bath him, feed him and have him ready for me to play with and talk to when I get home. It's been a joy for the last 2 months doing that. So, there is no reason that she cannot do chores around the house. He is right in expecting that and it is my duty to enforce it with my children.

As for asking a YW to assist once in awhile as well, awesome idea!!! Didn't even think of that. Did hire Molly Maids however for a spring cleaning.

Here's an interesting thing. Thursday night WH went to the Strengthening Marriage class that we are supposed to attend each week for 6 weeks, I chose not to go and was going to cancel for us, but he insisted that he was going anyway. He told me today that the teacher discussed unrighteous dominion. We had already talked about that before so after the class, he stayed after and he broke down to the teacher that I have mentioned that to him before and that he thinks he does that after listening to how he described it. They spent about 30 minutes after class discussing it. I think that was a huge breakthrough. But when he got home from the class, I told him that I had talked to his BF and told him the truth and being so vulnerable, that really sent him to rock bottom. I'm going to post that whole story after I read and post answers. It's been an emotional day.


Thank you again! And thank you for your eloquently describing how the leaders of the church deal with this kind of stuff.

Believer,

Thank you for the recommed to go to the Goddess thread. I have been seeing it and wanting to take the time to go there and read up and learn.

3 children, 22/20/14 My oldest boy left on a 2 year mission. He has had his own addiction issues with drugs and alcohol that he overcame dramatically and turned his life over to Christ. Amazing example! My middle daughter just had a baby in Jan., left her husband last year once she was pregnant and moved home with us to have the baby, go to school and get back on her feet. She has always been the one that my WH has had difficulty with, but this year she and he have made great strides. She brought home a little dog though that is not house trained and she doesn't do the best job of making sure that he goes out. That makes WH very upset. He tries to be tolerable, but that is one of the issues that he feels causes those feelings of wanting to "act out". My youngest son has been having many difficulties since his brother left on his mission, looking for friends where he can fit in. This is a kid that is very popular and has had no problems up until now. I started him in counselling this week after he got suspended for helping a kid tag the boys restroom with a gang sign. He came home sobbing to me asking for the counseling. He said he doesn't know whey he does it. I know that there is still some innocence there and that he needs some strong guidance. Another reason I can't be "weak" in my turmoil about WS.

Larry,


I had to get the 2 X 4 out again and alter my thinking. I know in my heart that adultery is abuse. And now that I have made that shift, I know that I already have a committment not to be in another abusive relationship because I've "been there, done that". So that puts me in a place of peace in knowing that action needs to be taken.

On the other hand, I am also taking accoutability that action needs to be taken on my own part as well. In my own brutal honesty to myself, these are the things I know I need to do (watch how they mirror WH request)....hmm...

1. lose weight (this has never been a request of his, however he has had the "be healthy" talk with me recently and the words you have all given me here about this topic are very enlightening and make me realize that just because he doesn't say it doesn't mean it's not important. I've watched him get excited when I put on a new outfit)

2. enforce my children helping around the house consistently, regularly, etc. (this is good for them too)

3. regain my desire to nurture my home and do my own cleaning for my own feelings of self worth (which will make WH very happy and is visual)

4. work with D to create a plan for the dog, or the dog has got to go!

ForeverHers....

I luv you my friend! Thank you for the gentleness by which you have delivered your "frank honesty". I know that it was completely sincere, which is what I am looking for.

At this stage in the marriage, we have become very "me" centric, in fact at times feeling very much like it is a competition or we are in some sort of win/lose situation all the time. However, one of the things he loves about me is my ability to forgive and my gentleness. This infidelity has just brought out the worst in me, still my choice. I have felt myself tense up when we have our discussions and felt what you are saying about having excuses and the justifications. Bad habit to form. Another reason for wanting the post so that I can take the answers and learn and grow from them. I knew that I would get honesty! Thank you again!

I believe that marriage is ordained by God and it feels that instead of having God present in our marriage, we have had Satan around alot. I'm really praying that we can overcome that because our children need it as much as we do. I also believe that Satan works hard on those that are trying to make changes in their lives. We truly have made many great changes in the last few years, specifically as we walked the path with our oldest son as he prepared for his mission.

As for the weight, I think the diabetes scare has been a HUGE eye opener for me. I only have one kidney because I donated one to my brother 10 years ago. I have extreme leg aches and many other health issues that I KNOW are directly related to my health. This is serious and it's time for me to take control of it. No one else can do it for me. Thank you for sharing the story and experience.

The "addiction" is the issue with WH. Whether it is porn or beer or OW or anything else. That has been his way of "coping". That is the issue that he needs help with or he will just find another replacement addiction. I myself have coping addictions of my own, food is probably high on the list. I have to take control of my own coping choices as well.

This comment you made really hit home:

"getting there" will take time, so a commitment from both of you to the "long haul" is essential. The past 6 years no longer count, because there is a CURRENT problem. The "clock" for recovery starts now. Yes, you may both have learned some things over the past 6 years, but we are talking about RECOVERY, not knowledge.

I have always been ashamed that there was a recurring problem. WH says he is now ready to do the work. I'm going to post right now about how our day has gone.

LBelle,

I may take you up on that nutrition offer. Can I find your email here? Thank you so much for the website recommendation, I will check that out. Yes, we both need counselling. I wish that there was an outpatient marriage program that was much more intense than once a week counselling. LOL.

My WH has told me that he is relieved that he will be talking to the Bishop. I think he is actually relieved about all the exposure now. As much as he was shocked, after our day today, I think he realizes that it is the only way.

MAJOR UPDATE!!!!!

On Thursday night, WH went to the M class that we signed up for at the church alone. I told him I was going to cancel for both of us and he said, I'm going anyway. So I stayed home and ended up talking to his BF and I told his BF (who is actually not the best influence) about the EA's and lies that he has been telling.

WH called me on the way home from the class and was quite excited about what he had learned. I still wasn't in the mood to talk so I asked him to pick up YS from his friends and ended the call. He dropped off YS, gave me a questionaire from the class to fill out and left for men's basketball back at the church again. On his way to the church, I text him and let him know that I had an hour long conversation with BF. Remeber that by this point, I had talked to Bishop and to my Brother so this is unchartered territory for us. When talking to BF, there were some lies that he had told him to, like that we had a boat, silly stuff. So I know that this is a bigger issue that he needs serious help with.

That night I could not sleep. I probably didn't go to bed until 3 am and got up at 6 am to go to work. WH was bumping around the house, doing laundry and watching TV. I knew that he would sleep on the couch. Since I am trying to break the cycle of rescuing him, I did not say much. Around 1 am, he text me in the bedroom and said that he was going to go to St. Joseph's, which is a mental hospital. I didn't say anything because I knew that he was hitting rock bottom and that I needed to stay out of the way.

The next morning at work, I checked the phone records and saw that he had called St. Joseph's and talked to them for 25 minutes. I was truly shocked, but not sure where it would go from there. I chose not to talk to him all day that day (yesterday). Around 9 or so, he text me and said that he couldn't see. Well, he has eye issues and so I figured that he was crying wolf again and I was sticking to my guns of not rescuing him. I text him back that it might be an anxiety attack or stress and to make an appt. to see the Dr.

Did not hear a word from him the rest of the day. Asked D if he was home on my way home from work and she said that he had been asleep on the couch all day. That is VERY unusual so I just figured that he was depressed and that he indeed was hitting rock bottom due to the exposure and seriousness of me leaving him.

Traffic was horrific so it took me 3 hours to get home. I came in around 7:30 pm and he was asleep on the couch. I woke him up after about 15 minutes and asked if he wanted to talk. He was groggy and slurring his words which was very odd. I thought for an instant that he may have taken some of my Hydrocodone from my tooth surgery. That was last night and the conversation occured that started this thread. Once awake he was beligerent and telling me that he acts out because of me not meeting his needs.

So this morning I get on the thread and see Cherishings post from Dr. Harley's show and I print it and take it to him to read. He's out on the back porch sitting quietly. He comes back in with it and sits on the bed to talk. In the meantime, I have looked for my medication because my tooth is hurting. I ask him where it is and he tells me downstairs, I say, why and he goes to get it and comes back upstairs with several pill bottles. I realize that he has done something so I ask him, did you take all those pills.

He proceeds to tell me that he took about 10 or so perscription Ibuprofen, about 10 or so Hydrocodone, about 10 or so Donnatell and about 10 or so Tylenol PM. I failed to mention that I had noticed he had thrown up all over the bathroom floor when I got home and had attempted to clean it up, but you could still tell. I figured that's why he was sleeping, because he was sick.

So....he tried to commit suicide!!!

Although I was greatly concerned, shocked to say the least and grateful that it did not work, I still stuck to my committed recovery of my own addiction in rescuing him and I sat there quietly and listened to him talk about how he was feeling. I then shared with him that perhaps this M was not going to fulfill his needs and that I see the good in him and he deserved to have someone that would meet his needs and bring out the best in him, long story short.

He started to cry and said, I want that person to be you. I know that I need to fix me and you will be ok. Apparently, he took the pills after calling St. Josephs and they didn't have any beds. But he did agree to go to an Outpatient program with them starting Monday for 6 hours a day. This is huge progress for us, unchartered territory, but huge progress. I told him that I needed to be on my own recover path as well and that I know that I'm a good person and that I have brought alot of good into this M and wasn't going to take responsibility for his infidelity choices. I guess he did learn alot in the class Thursday about replacing behaviors that have become habits because he talked about how his "acting out" has been a habit for coping for so long that it's almost done in sleep mode. He said that he knows he has to consciously make new habits/choices to replace them.

So I'm feeling good about my own strength today. Feels like I'm taking a breath to get ready to move forward. I am willing to work on this with him with rigorous displays of help for his addictions. I will do my part in making changes and we will go from there.

Dear Larry,
He was my 2nd husband and I still love him soooo much but since the separation its like he is just going to move on as if we spent no time togather.He has some girl downloaded on his cell screen saver.I thought by leaving he would have seen this as a wake up for him.I'm 47 and don't want to be without a companion.I just don't think I can trust again.Thank you for answering my post.I'm a christian to but my husband backslid and went back to his pot smoking plus cigarettes.I feel so sad and rawl on the inside.All I want to do is cry.

This too shall pass. He is abusing you. Anyway, not enough details to post anything else. Start a thread for yourself with details.

Larry

His acting out is a plea for sympathy. He is screwed up in the head and needs help. Addicts don't need sympathy, they need tough love. Half hearted attempts to commit suicide doesn't trump the tough love concept.

Larry

Larry,

I believe that to be true as well. I know in my heart that this will not end without him getting treatment and finding healthy replacements for his addictions. I know that I have alot of work to do as well, but I also know it's not my fault that he chose the OW's. It took me a long time to get there, but I'm seeing much clearer now.

I should add that we took him to the hospital and he has an infection in his throat and uvalitis from the damage of the medication. He is also suffering severe kidney pain with his body processing all the chemicals out. He is in excellent shape so the Dr.'s feel that he will work this out of his system and be fine.

While at the hospital, he apologized to me and told me that it was a really stupid thing to do. I was surprised for the apology, knew that he would see it as stupid, but surprised that he saw the effect it would have had on me.

Yesterday, Sunday, he had his meeting with the Bishop. I first talked with him and shared the chronological details of events and my concerns. He had already started breaking down outside the Bishop's office before it was his turn to go in. He had been asked to participate in a blessing of another member that was in there before us and he had to turn it down because he was not worthy. That really hit home for him!!

The Bishop opened his door to come out and get the Stake President, who happened to be in our ward on Sunday to assist him in giving my husband a blessing so I could see in there and he was sobbing. He shared with me afterwards all that he had told them and there were some things that I had even forgotten to discuss, about lies with money, etc.

I have NEVER seen my H this broken. I am so grateful that it has come to this and I truly hope that we both learn from it. I'm not jumping in to take away his pain and rescue him. That's my weakness and that has gotten in the way of our recovery.

He also expressed to me on Sunday that he knew that he had watched me be weak with the kids with boundaries and that he could push that envelope as well. He apologized for that and told me that it was not right. He should have been behind me and supporting me to do better with the kids.

I have not lost perspective that this is not over and I have a newfound commitment to work on myself. I feel the resentment melting away which gets in the way of me working on myself because I don't want him to "enjoy" the good in me because he doesn't deserve it. It finally resonated with me this weekend that is a cruel thing to do to not only him, but to myself. I am committed to being the Passionate, Creative, Giving, Beautiful, Worthy Woman that I am!!

Thank you Larry

Tough love isn't cruel. Tough love is the kindest act anyone can do for someone they care about whether it be their kids or their spouse. He "may" be bottoming out. He may not be and it is all an act or temporary play from which he will rebuild his entitlement. Only time will tell.

Reward the good side as much for yourself as for him, but be careful that you do NOT enable his stupid side. It is gonna take him a lotta time and soul searching to get his head where it belongs.

Glad to see the Church has an influence on him.

All the best.

Larry

Tough love has been my biggest issue, especially with my children. I know that this is where I need to focus and do the work on myself, regardless of the outcome of WH. My children deserve to have the stability of boundaries.

Interestingly, I feel much stronger this time around. Perhaps because I have not given into my co-dependency and have not let my own weaknesses overtake the situation so that he has to turn around and rescue me.

I actually asked him to "stop" doing all the things that he does for me in the home, (i.e. laundry, cooking, etc.) I told him that since these are seen as areas that I don't appreciate and then they trigger a relapse, I would prefer to do them on my own until we are in a healthier environment. I think he was shocked and last night when I followed thru with that, he was even more stunned.

Communication has been going better, I can sense both of us doing our part in trying to recreate our habits.