Thank you all for all your replies and guidance. It’s been really helpful and enlightening in a scary way. She went alone because she said she needed personal time. That’s one of the complaints she had that I suffocated her and didn’t allow for enough personal time. Along those same lines for Memorial Day weekend she’s planning to visit her cousin and her cousin’s live-in boyfriend in Long Island by herself. I was never really perfectly okay with it and now that I’ve received this perspective of an affair it makes me feel really uneasy. Tomorrow night is our first marriage counselor session. I’m hoping she’s willing to open up more in the context of counseling but if not, I hope I have the opportunity to surface my concerns and belief that there some sort of an affair brewing or occurring.

This would help her better conceal the affair if you reveal your concerns. If she knows you are suspicious, she can do a better job of hiding it. She most likely is meeting the OM for Memorial Day weekend and is also going out with him on the weekends.

If you ask her about it and tell her your "concerns," she will most likely LIE about it and then do a better job of hiding the affair.

I am sorry to tell you that your wife is having an affair, EM.

p.s. if you want to save your marriage, then get the truth out in the open. You are wasting your time paying a counselor for your W to lie to.. If you want to work on the marriage, then take that money and put it towards a P.I. who will tell you with WHOM your wife is having an affair. No hope until the truth comes out, EM.

I am sorry to be so harsh with you, but you need to face the fact that your wife is very, very likely having an affair.

I know that you are still in a state of shock, but PLEASE don't go to the counselor thinking that your wife is going to admit to an affair. You will only be giving her a warning to hide things better.

In my 4 and a half years here, I've only seen a couple of spouses admit to an affair without being caught.

You are shooting yourself in the foot!

Shocked disbelief and devastated are all ways to describe how I’m feeling right now. The counselor was her idea and request. She’s also going to see a clinical psychologist tomorrow afternoon prior to our session late afternoon. What's your take on that?

She may be preparing to lower the boom and tell you about the affair. Or she may be preparing to ask for a divorce without telling you the truth.

But whatever you do, don't tell her you suspect if she doesn't tell you. And if she does tell you about the affair, don't agree to anything or fall apart. Ask as many questions as possible: how long? who? You do have a right to know everything since this is information about your life.

If she asks for a divorce, tell her you will think about it but agree to NOTHING. No "amicable divorce," no "just friends." Don't commit to anything.

Just come here and tell us what she said so we can HELP YOU. Most marriages DO NOT end over affairs and we can help you manage this and maybe even save your marriage.

I can't thank you all enough! I will return tomorrow with more information.

I am so sorry, EM. And I so HOPE and pray I am WRONG about everything I said. I really mean that. But whatever the issue, we will be here to help you.

Lost and confused,

I agree that your wife is probably having at least an ea, if not also a pa. The reason she wants space is so she has time to be with and think about the other person. I had an ea about two years ago and that is the same thing I said to my h. I don't think you should hire a pi. You need to ask her outright. If she lies she lies. Tell her you are willing to change and to work on your relationship and leave it at that. If she is having an affair she will go back and forth from you to the other guy. I strongly recommend the book surviving an affair. It will tell you exactly what to expect. That is the book that changed my mind and want to work on my marriage again. My husband (understandably) did not react well when I told him. He was very disrespectful and angry. Everything you do right now will push her away, she probably is not ready to see things clearly. read the book. pretty much everyone I have talked to about affairs says that if you change the names in the book it is their story. it has the much needed advice and info you need. don't give up, things can be turned around.

He has already asked her outright and she denied it. WS almost always lie, even when they don't have to. The vets have given him excellent advice and hiring a PI is a SMART way to get the truth. Without the truth, he can't move forward. With the truth, he will know exactly what he's facing.

So she had her first individual session with a psychologist today and later in the afternoon we both had our marriage counseling session. She came back from the personal session with the psychologist very happy. She told me that she was told that she was normal and that she shouldn’t deny who she is. If she’s the type of person that easily detaches from relationship after relationships then she must be comfortable with herself. She seemed very happy to know that and was comfortable with her being that way.

Later in the afternoon we saw the marriage counselor. This was an interesting session, she says that she doesn’t think she has any love for me whatsoever but she cares. She also says that ideally she just wants to be left alone. She doesn’t know what she wants out of a marriage or why the hard work is worth it. The counselor is putting us through two independent sessions to work on things and then bring back our findings in group setting to see how close or far apart we are.

I have asked her directly and I’ve asked her to be honest and open with me no matter the type of affair or thought of having one. She strongly stands by that there is no one else or thought of anyone else. That she just wants to be left alone… I just don’t grasp the normalcy of walking away from the life we built together- abandoning everything she once valued.

ok, EM, are you going to hire that P.I. now?


Does she expect you to remain in a loveless marriage in which she "just wants to be left alone?" What was her solution?

Kimme, he has already asked her. Asking a WS for the truth is a complete waste of time that will not help, only hinder.

"If she’s the type of person that easily detaches from relationship after relationships then she must be comfortable with herself. She seemed very happy to know that and was comfortable with her being that way."

Sheesh, lucky she isn't comfortable being an axe murderer......

I hope you are not PAYING the counselor for this kind of advice.

Look EM,

I know this is hard to accept, but WSs LIE. They lie and then they lie and then they lie some more. They lie to you, they lie to MCs(ask how many people here were in MC and their spouses were lying very convincingly for long periods of time), they lie to their friends, they lie to each other and worst of all, they lie to themselves.

I probably asked my H 5 or 6 times over the year he cheated if he was cheating. I was calm and told him I just needed his honesty. GUESS WHAT??? HE LIED!!!!!!! They are so caught up in the lie that they keep lying. They feel justified. They are LIARS, not the honest, wonderful people we married. The LYING is what RULES their life, their every move.

It is completely UP TO YOU to find out the truth. Hire a PI. Then you will know what you are dealing with.

Stop thinking that you can figure this out and that she will cooperate.

It's a bad spot that you are in, and we have all been there. And there is loads of GREAT advice for you here.

Trust this advice. Hire the PI. Also, go read KLD's thread. It's called "Turns Out to be Worse Than I thought.." It's on this GQII forum. This is how she got the proof she needed to uncover her H's affair. She hired a PI who did a fabulous job for her and found the information quickly.

Good Luck.
WH2LE

You sound just like me a little over 1 year ago. I knew something was up for a long time before I could prove it. Like your situation, there was no missing time for an A to happen, etc. Same "love you not "in love"", wanted "space", had felt that way for a "long time" etc.

Turns out she was having an A with a coworker where they would use his nearby apartment during thier lunch hour. You will learn that this is all textbook wayward spouse behavior. It took me MONTHS of searching to find out the full truth and wring a confession from my W.

You need to find out the truth. GPS her car, or put a digital recorder inside it. Get ahold of her phone, that was the major clue for me as to who OM was.

Sorry to say it, but I would bet heavily that your W is having an affair. You need to find out who OM is, then you can forumlate an effective plan. Until then, Plan A for you. Eliminate all lovebusters, become the H you should have been all along. Stop arguing with your W. Stop following her around being pathetic. Clean the house when you're stressed or do something else that meets a need of hers without being in her face about it. Do this without expecting ANYTHING in return. This is the carrot of plan A. The carrot creates internal conflict within the WS as it makes it hard(er) for them to justify the A to themselves. It also makes for some pretty off the wall WS babble. You need to realize that if your WW is cheating on you, she will LIE, bold faced lies, straight to your face.

She will prey upon your trust, threaten that your suspicions are driving her away, that you are crazy for thinking she could "do something like that". The sooner you recognize this for what it is the better off you will be.

Plan A, do what it takes to find the truth. My guess is that it has something to do with work or the gun range (if she's even going to the range! Perhaps her OM shoots and those are his targets? Yeah, I'm paranoid, but, I've been there. . . I would suggest following her to the range, borrow a friends car or something. DO NOT GET CAUGHT SNOOPING!!

This upcoming weekend sounds pretty fishy too. I'd at the very least give a call to the cousins to make sure they are expecting her arrival. Maybe you need an address to print a map for WW or something? Make up some excuse.

SEEK THE TRUTH! None of this is going to make any sense until you find it.

To answer a few questions, she doesn’t have a plan other than her ideal scenario is to be left alone…meaning she wants to be alone. She says she wants to go through the marriage counseling to understand whether it’s worth staying or not. It’s not clear to her what working on the marriage will get her or what she wants out of a marriage. I’m trying the plan-a approach and being nice (which I always am and have been) and talking to her about those things she seems to be interested in (again that typical me). However, she doesn’t want to spend any time with me or she said be in the same room. This is supposedly as a result of me aggravating her by talking about our relationship and questioning the situation we are in. This has also caused to now have no love for me whatsoever- as she said during our counseling session.

I found it extremely odd too that someone would suggest that the continuous cycle of abandonment would be normal if that’s who she is. Now, she told the marriage counselor this and he said that he would have approached it a bit different in the sense that maybe it’s because that’s what’s she done, knows how to do and is comfortable with it but now she should understand what working to keep a relationship is like. That’s where the, what do I get out of it came from so we’ll have to see how this progresses. I’ve come to terms to do all I can to avoid talking about us and move onto more pleasant conversations.

I understand I need to get to the bottom of this but I ask the experts, by forcing this, and forcing her to tell the truth by exposing her will that ever result in us having a healthy relationship or are we just destined to be doomed?

Uh huh. I've been there. The idea that "what if I just let this slide and hope it gets better" thought.

Sorry, it doesn't work. Its just setting yourself up for trouble down the road.

The only way through is the truth. What are you doing to seek it? If she is having an A, she will NOT provide you with the truth.

Think. Why would your W suddenly decide she's not "in love" with you? I remember when I was seeking the truth I came across an article about the "I love you but not "in love" with you" statement.

I don't recall it specifically, but the gist is that what she is referring to is not LOVE. What she is saying is that "I care about you but I'm not EXCITED by you." Meaning she is excited about something else. Something else has made her feel what she imagines "in love" feels like. It isn't real, and part of her knows this.

In order to cut through the double speak (also called "fogbabble" around here), you have to bring reality into the discussion. The only way to do that is to find the truth. Once you get the truth, it will all make sense and you will be able to form an effective plan.

EM, but you are not talking to experts. You are talking to people who have no experience and no qualifications to deal with adultery, and thusly, don't recognize the symptoms.

Dr. Willard Harley, a clinical psychogist who SPECIALIZES in adultery, would tell you there is likely an affair going on here. He would also tell you that you have no hope of saving your marriage until that truth surfaces. You cannot deal with a problem when the problem is being CONCEALED.

No one has suggested that you "force" her to tell the truth. in fact, we have advised AGAINST THAT, because you cannot do it. What we have suggested - IF YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE - is that you hire a PI and find out the TRUTH on your own.

Please use common sense and listen to your words:

Do you think you have "healthy relationship" NOW? Do you think a secret affair will lead to a healthy relationship?