EM, the "experts" you are speaking to have NO PLAN to save your marriage. And this is the case with most counselors. They have NO IDEA how to save a marriage. Marriage counselors have the highest failure rate of any of the counseling venues at 84% failure.

Dr Harley, who really IS an expert, has a PLAN. Many of the folks who are posting to you here, including me, have GREAT MARRIAGES today because of his PLAN.

You need a PLAN, EM.

ML, I believe he was asking "us" as the "experts".

Other than that, rock on, right there with ya!

DUH! Dat went right over my head! LOL!

That’s correct; I was referring to those here that have been providing guidance as the experts. I was just purely reflecting on the fact that if I gain this knowledge and expose the findings to her. By doing that and knowing how deceitful she was and her willing to stray would we ever enable us to have a healthy relationship again. I also agree I need a plan and try to gain insight into what’s occurring. I think a P.I in the city she works seems to be the best start in learning. Does anyone have any guidance to what services I should be soliciting or pricing of a P.I. By the way, she works in Philadelphia. I assume the charges for such a service are discrete as I don’t want this to be traceable.

Yes, this is the only way to have a marriage again if it can be saved. It is surely doomed if you don't ever get to the real problem. The way to save your marriage is to kill the affair and the way to kill the affair is to EXPOSE IT and get it right out into the open.

Affairs thrive on secrecy and exposure ruins them.


I would start by hiring one to work this weekend to see where she is going and with whom. I don't know anything about services, etc, but I might call the police station in that town and ask one of the older sargeants for a referral. Many PI's are ex cops.

The only way you are going to be able to ever have a healthy marriage with your W is by moving forward knowing the truth. Sticking your head in the sand just isn't going to cut it, as tempting an option as it may seem.

If you find an affair, then you will proceed with "the stick" of plan A, which will be doing everything in your power to break up the A. Your marriage does not have a chance while the A is ongoing. Realize as well that if your W is cheating on you, she has effectively ended the marriage. SHE has done this. You knowing the truth and acting from it will not be the cause. Whether or not you are able to rebuild from it will depend on many things, but don't put the cart before the horse.

I do not know the costs of private investigators. I would suggest you call a couple in the Philadelphia area and ask them. They are the pros, presumably you will not be the first person to want to keep your investigation private, so I would not worry much about that. Call, find out. A quick google search of Philadelphia Private Investigator turns up dozens of options. I would tell them that you want to know if your W is cheating on you, and if so, you want to know everything possible about who the OM is.

Hi EM. I don't normally spend much time on this part of the forum. I hope I don't offend any one by pointing out that, yes - there may be some sort of affair going on in your marriage. Your wife may be having her most important emotional needs met by someone else. If this is happening you do need to find it out in order to deal with it. If present, an unexposed affair will slow your recovery progress to a crawl.

But one thing that that is absolutely 100% for sure - you are not meeting your wife's emotional needs and/or you are love busting. No need for much investigation to see that. If she is having an affair it is because you are not meeting her emotional needs or your are love busting - so she has chosen to have her needs met somewhere else rather than go without. Invest in a GPS, a PI and all that stuff - but also invest the time and money in to solving the root problem of your marriage - unmet emotional needs leading to a loss of romantic love. Outting your wife's affair (if it exsits) is very important - but it is not the end goal. The goal is a happy, fulfilling loving marriage. Until you learn and do what needs to be done to achieve this, you will not get what you want.

Cathy gave you some great advice earlier suggesting you work on your love busters and your wife's ENs while you are snooping for an affair. Are you doing any of that? Do you have any idea what your wife's ENs are? Do you know what your love busters are? This is where the real work is. Don't neglect it. True your efforts will be muted if there is an affair but you will be building a foundation for future progress. You will be learning and gaining understanding of what has gone wrong in your marriage and what needs to change.

Good luck.

So I’ve been away for a bit. We had a long weekend away. She came back happy and she seemed to have indeed stayed with her cousin the entire time. We had a verily good start to the week, general talking etc – no tense conversations but she still expressed at times since of frustration and angriness (coldness) toward me. Although, last night she comes out and says she just doesn’t want to be married or with me, she wants out. It seems the fight to preserve is over since she has no desire in staying or being with me whatsoever. I was researching investigative services but did act and now it seems unnecessary. It just keeps getting worse.

EM,

Not to badger you with this, but how do you KNOW she was with her cousins?

Do you want to continue your marriage? This is the ALL-IMPORTANT question?

If you are interested in saving your M, you should still hire the PI?

It just doesn't sound as if you still have any more info than you did before.

Very FEW women want out of marriage just BECAUSE. Really.

WH2LE

I absolutely want to continue my marriage and I’ve told her that. I’ve told her that I’d undergo anything to ensure our happiness and success. You’re right; I don’t know anything new other than her feelings for me have progressively lessened to the point where she says she has NO feelings for me whatsoever. The reason I know she was there was, I talked to her while she was there and her cousin. How can I save my marriage if my wife is so adamant that she doesn’t want our marriage or me?

Here’s the latest and all of you guiding and helping will not be surprised at all. My wife decided to stay in Philadelphia for a couple of days for social events last night a birthday party for coworker at a local bar and planning tonight for dinner with the boss and drinks afterwards. On Monday before she left, I asked her to call me when she got back to her hotel that evening. She said it depends on how she felt. We had a conversation about that and she ultimately said she would if it made me feel better. Fast forward to last night, no call from her. I’m concerned but do nothing. I get this feeling while I’m sleeping that something is up, around 3AM ET. I get up out of bed and I call the hotel she staying at to connect me to the room. They tell me that she hasn’t checked in so red flag is up in my mind. I call her 3 times all to voice mail and then she calls me back. I asked what was going on, I had a bad dream and I wanted check on you since I didn’t hear from you. She said she was just sleeping so I said at the hotel? She said yes, but I said I just called the hotel to be connected and they said you were not checked in. She lied a bit more and pressed and then she said, she’s staying with a friend. I said who, she pauses for a bit and then says the girl’s name that the party was for. I called BS, and said I know you’re not there, tell me the truth and after much back and forth she came clean. She said this was the first time and a onetime thing. It is a coworker that she said they were talking and she was physically attracted and decided to act on it. She claims this has never happened before and didn’t expect me to ever find out. I don’t believe her but she has stressed the marriage is over and she’s leaving. She has an appointment with a divorce attorney next week she told me. She wants to understand what her options are and now that she has had an affair what that means.

I’m mentally and physically devastated and I think that I am shutdown right now. I asked her to come home tonight so we can talk about this and coordinate how to approach the divorce. I feel now more than ever I need to protect myself. I don’t know fully what her affair means to the divorce but I know she does not want to reconcile with me, she is fully out and strongly wants out.

Any guidance is greatly appreciated… Thanks again for all the previous guidance and suggestions.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS EM! She feels this way BECAUSE of the A. You are competing with a fantasy and as long as that fantasy is alive you are going to come up on the short end of the stick. NOW it is time to attack the A. Find out everything you can about OM. Is he married? GF? Lives with mommy and daddy? EVERYTHING YOU CAN.

Its time to expose. She's cheating with a coworker. Expose to the company, write a letter to thier bosses and the HR department if it is a big company, there are several examples of such letters, you want to be businesslike and stress that you are trying to SAVE your marriage in this letter. Also expose to her family. Exposure brings reality. Reality destroys As.

She is almost undoubtedly lying about this being the first time, I'm sure you know that. Quit talking D with her. Just stop talking about it. If she brings it up, tell her that you are not going to talk D with her.

IF she offers up some incredible settlement, you may want to consider it. Many times waywards will give up much more initially while they are in the fog. A signed separation agreement may be in order if she does this.

DO NOT give her any warning about exposure.

I am asking you the same question I did before. Do you want your marriage?

If the answer is YES, then GET ON THE STICK AND GET BUSY. Now is the time man.

Go back, re-read all your posts and start doing the things the vets have advised you to do and that you have not done yet.

EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE!!

Tell her, "I don't do divorce, I do marriage."

If you don't want your marriage, then just do as she says and ignore all the information you have been given here.

Your WW is in the fog, big-time. NOTHING she says can be counted as meaning ANYTHING!!!!! Turn the fog lights on and get out the fog horn.

Even if you decide to get a divorce, you should still expose.

I am so sorry you are in this position. We have all been there with you. Unfortunately. Keep posting. MB saved me and absolutely saved my marriage. The advice you get here can change EVERYTHING!!!!

Blessings,
WH2LE

I do want my marriage but she's made it clear that she does not and will not stay. She is meeting with her attorneys on Monday. She extremely angry, cruel, mean, hateful toward me and I’ve been nothing but nice to her during this. She’s told me some things about the person but I don’t know if she’s lying or not – it’s hard to tell at this point. I agree I do not believe that this is the first time. She’s told me that she really doesn’t want anything but we plan to speak about all the stuff and how to approach splitting it up and steps to sell the house etc.

Does the formal separation outline the agreement of assets? I’m really nervous now about my own protection because she seems to be spending money excessively. I’ve told her that I want the marriage and before this came out I told her that I’d be willing to work through adultery but she’s totally unwilling so I’m completely at a loss on that front.

As it relates to exposing, what does informing her work do? I do plan to tell her mom which will tell her grandparents, etc. What else should I do as it relates to exposure?

EM, no matter what else you do you should take steps Today to protect yoursself financially. Dont wait for your wife to meet with a lawyer or for a seperation agreement.

Get your own bank account, move what money you believe is yours. If you have a direct deposit cancel it or change it to a new account. Cancel all joint credit cards immediatly. you are absolutly right to protect yourself. You are perfectly within your rights to do this. Do not be concerned about her reaction to this. You are just protecting yourself.

Do you have kids?

Your wifes behaviour is VERY typical at the moment. You are the receiving end of Fog Babble. Dont get caught up in it. Dont react to it. Treat her like a falling down drunk. Is there any point in arguing with a falling down drunk?

If you want to save this marriage there is hope. My wife said all of things your wife said during her affair. I survived by believing she was temporarily insane (but dont say that to her).


There are a lot of things you can do but first things first. Protect your finances immediatly.

EM,

"I survived by believing she was temporarily insane (but dont say that to her)."

That quote is PERFECT. It explains clearly the way a wayward is thinking, or rather.....NOT thinking.

I also survived by thinking this about my H.

You are giving ENTIRELY too much credence to the words that are spewing out of your WW's mouth.

Who cares if she doesn't want the marriage? YOU DO and you are NOT insane and YOU are thinking clearly. Take charge. You may be the first person in her life who thinks that she matters enough to fight for her. If you want her, FIGHT FOR HER!!!!!! Stop listening to the fog-babble. See alawyer TODAy to protect yourself and start MBing.

You can do this. And no matter what happens, you will know that YOU did your best. Priceless.

WH2LE

I’ve been fighting as hard as I can this entire time. My wife wants out; she’s stopped counseling and will not go back because the marriage is over as she has said. She’s already lined up an attorney and is meeting with them next week and she had her own accounts (checking, credit, etc) setup well over a week ago. It doesn’t seem that I have a way to turn around someone who is so headstrong of dissolving the marriage. She has agreed to make no contact with this other person until the house is sold and she’s moved out. If she does, she understands how strongly I will pursue the divorce and ensure she is entitled to nothing as a result of her adultery. At this point, we are mutually reviewing our assets and she’s agreed to be entitled to only what she needs. This is extremely tough, although, I do have times of numbness which has given me the strength to document our assets and walk through ownership etc.

EM,

I certainly wish you luck. I hope you will be able to heal and move on from this.

Th only other comment I have is that MB was MADE for people like you and your WW. If you have read the posts here, you will see that there are many(if not most) people who have heard the SAME words from their WS that you have. AND now their marriages are recovered.

If you believe divorce is imminent though, continue posting here on the Divorced forum. There is SO much good help to be found at MB. Whatever your situation.

Blessings to you,
WH2LE

I so wish that it wasn't. I just don't know what to do or what I can do to turn her around. I would love to save my marriage more than anything else.