Cat, you totally amaze me, all these things that you take on. It amazes me to see the progress that you make on a daily basis continue to add up and spiral up and up. I do hear you speaking up for yourself more and more. Thanks again for taking the time to help me, too, to pull me along when I need a hand.

I understand the wanting to avoid resistance, too. Like that saying, progress, not perfection. You can enjoy the results that you are already seeing while you keep taking those making that progress that adds up.

What do you have planned for the weekend?

This is the weekend we go out of town to H's friend, so he can hook up the electronics in his new house. The good thing is the guy is paying for our hotel, and he put us in a good one that's connected to a mall, so D17 will just hang around the pool or go shopping while H works. Plus the guy said he'd pay H $1000 for the work.

How did your trip to H's friend go? Or did you update somewhere else and I missed it?

Thanks for asking! We had an amazingly good weekend, D17 and I, while H worked at his friend's house. The hotel his friend put us up at was a real fancy one, and was at this huge new outdoor mall w/ a movie theater. And H gave us each $100 to spend, so we went shopping, went to a movie, ate, shopped some more, went to the hotel gym, went to the pool a couple times. The only downside was that Sunday we went to friend's house at 3 to pick up H, but when we got there they couldn't get all the electronics to work on the universal remote (just like H told his friend it wouldn't work, had told him not to buy the remote), and they spent from 3 until 9:30pm trying to get it to work, while D17 and I did nothing cos we kept thinking we'd be leaving any minute. D17 finally just went to sleep on their couch, but friend's wife felt like she had to keep me company and wouldn't leave, but if she would have, I could have gotten my computer and worked on some side jobs I needed to finish. Got home at 2am. But a nice weekend.

Aw man, I know the feeling of waiting because "it's just gonna be one more minute"... and having that dragging out... and of someone feeling they must talk to you the whole time when you could be doing something productive!

Oh well, it sounds like over all it was a good experience. I love staying in hotels! I know that's weird, I think it's because they're so clean (assuming they are!) and neat - no clutter. Shopping, swimming and the gym, sounds like a nice mini-vacation with your D. I hope you feel refreshed.

I wrote H an email last week apologizing for getting so pissy on Mother's Day. In it I expressed how badly I had wanted to go see the family up north with my mom, and how it colored my day. I acknowledged what he did for me, but pointed out that I had been looking forward to Mother's Day because it's about the only day of the year when I can ask for what I want, and I had been looking forward to getting him to help with some of the household projects and mentioned how the house was falling apart and it's really upsetting me, that we aren't addressing it.

He finally read it last night, lol. He just said 'I read your email.' I said, "yeah?" He told me that he had tried to arrange with my brother for me to go north with my family, but how D17 couldn't go because of school and he couldn't go cos we couldn't all fit in one vehicle. I didn't say anything, maybe 'ok' and left the room. That's what he does. He rarely follows through on anything, but he always, always tells me how he was GOING to do such and such. Like that commercial where the guy says he didn't get the girl a present, then says 'but I MEANT to' and she gets so happy and kisses him. That comes up nearly every day, something that he was going to do, like leave work early, to explain why he isn't helping or didn't come home or whatever.

What am I supposed to say to that?

Anyway, he emailed me this morning and asked me what I wanted to do for the holiday weekend. That's pretty huge for him, so I guess the apology helped. And I got up from the taxes Tuesday when he came home and hugged and kissed him, something I rarely do any more.

So I answered him that I still had to finish 2006 taxes and hadn't even started 2007 yet, for Tuesday's appointment with the CPA, and that I could use some help with it. We'll see what happens.

Oh, man, cat, good for you for speaking up! How do you feel about this? Does it feel like a huge milestone?

I hear so much overwhelming stuff to do. Your perseverance is amazing and inspiring. Your H is making huge changes, too, ones that don't come easy to him. I like how FlyLady says, "You're not behind! Jump in where you are." I even have the dishtowel on my oven

One of my husbands friends calls my dh gunna because he so often says "I'm gunna do this or that", but then never does. To cut dh some slack I should admit that I often say "I ought to do this or that", but then I don't. So perhaps I'm an otta.

Tell him you would like him to pay back the 100K you guys borrowed. Then, you would like him to do the back taxes with you and finish by doing a permanent budget to get out of debt and never get into debt again.

If my H spent money like water I would want to wring his neck.

So we get back from piano lesson and I sit down at the taxes, H sits on the couch, so I steel myself and flat out ask him to go through his boxes in the bedroom. He asks me why, as though we had never had this conversation before, and I tell him for the third or fourth time that I need to see what other receipts he has in the boxes so I can finish. He actually gets up and goes in the bedroom. I find a reason to go in there a few minutes later, and he is actually going through one of the boxes. So I get all excited, come back to the table. About 5 minutes later, he comes in, throws away some papers, and goes outside to mow the yard. He stops at the door, looks at me, and says 'what?' This is our little dance; he knows he's ditching me like he always does, and he turns it around so that if I say something, I'm nagging. And I chicken out and just say 'nothing.'

So it's 4 hours later, and he has finished mowing our yard, and the forest behind our house (yes, he mows it), and now he is cleaning the mower grass catcher bag - the first time in 10 years he has done that. He is finding any reason he can to not come back in the house.

I had the perfect opportunity to say 'are you not going to finish the boxes?' and I chickened out. What's the matter with me?

eta: Now he's taken the big ladder out front and a pair of clippers. He's going to trim our trees. *sigh*

Cat, there is nothing wrong with you. You just need to learn a new dance. You have been accidently dancing that old worn out one for so many years it is a habit.

It takes a few months to break a habit and form a new dance for yourself, just like on Dancing with the Stars, it takes them a while and lots of work and determination to learn the new steps.

To learn a new dance, you need to see how the old one works. Write out all about how the old dance between you and your H works and why you are wanting to change it now.

Then, write out changes and role play responses you might do. It does not hurt to plan out 4 possible responses for each thing he does or says. Then try the different ones out on him in an actual personal encounter with him.

Write out your LINES like a beautiful actress does and learn them backwards and forwards. Also, it helps for you to be around functional healthy friends and see and observe how they interact with each other. Write down how they speak to one another, etc. This will give you some ideas on how you can get more assertive with him.

Read my lists on Kerby's thread, they might help you also. I feel you are on the verge of a breakthru in your personal way of being in the world.

You are ready to learn new habits, new ways of relating to your husband, to develop new goals and passions for your own life, to enjoy yourself more, and everything. Who knows why I feel this way about you I just do!

Cat', I'm going to share the assumptions I got when I read your story. I'd be really interested to find out if any of these are correct.

• He went into your room to look at the boxes because he wants to make you happy. He looked ion the boxes, and the lack of order in there overwhelmed him
• He went to you to say "what" because it is so much easier to distract himself by fighting with you (change-back behavior) than deal with his overwhelming feeling of lack of order
• He went out back to work his butt off in the yard to restore order in a way he could be successful.

Would it be honest to bring him a glass of iced tea and validate that you totally understand how overwhelming those boxes are. That you feel SO bad for him that this is so overwhelming. To share your hope that you all are so close to being done with this, and then you will have a plan together to never have to struggle like this again. Share with him that thishappens to many couples, but you have a plan (CSS) that has been so successful for so many people.

Cat, when I get overwhelmed at work, because it's too hard, I ask for help. But sometimes I procrastinate something because I'm embarassed that it's simple yet I don't understand it or know what the next step is or feel competent or confident to do the next step. What a GIFT it would be if you offered to help him this one time with this. Or DD17, that kid's as smart as a whip! Or maybe you guys have a friend who is good with this stuff who'd be willing to offer to help him. What do you think?

Stella, thank you. I think I will do that, script it out. It will give me a sense of control I currently don't have.

ears, I took him a bottle of water and told him thank you for trimming my apple tree that has some dead branches. I know you're right about your assumptions; that's how he is.

I'm almost done with 2006 taxes. I'm going to take a break tonight after I finish, since I have Monday off, and try to do some family time tonight. He responds well when I pay attention; I'm just so overwhelmed all the time I can barely function. But I have to give to get, right?

ETA: Well, that did no good. I tried to bring him a shorter ladder to help, it empowered him to be mad about 'having' to be doing this. I asked D17 to go help him, he cussed her out about me making him do more work by bringing him the ladder. So now he's pouting, which is his way of daring me to bring up the taxes/boxes.

Now he's washing the dog. I sent D17 back out to help him wash the dog.

Funny thing: When I told D17 to go outside and help Dad, she came down and said - having nothing to do with me - "Boy, he really doesn't want to work on the taxes, does he? He'll spend the whole day outside in this heat (100 deg) to avoid doing them."

Hi Cat, you're getting some great advice from Stella. Just a quick question, since you are taking over doing the taxes (smart plan), I wondered why you didn't say to your dh "would you please bring me the boxes so I can go through them". If your dh does his usual dance about doing other things, bring him a water and say "Since you're busy doing the tree, I'm gonna go through your boxes and get the receipts, ok?"

Yes, I know this lets him off the hook, but in this case I don't think he's capable of doing the right thing.

I also would have told him when he griped about the tree "You know, nobody's making you do this." Although some people might consider that fanning the flames.

WFG, you're right. I had thought about doing that. I think I'm just going to tell him in the morning that I'm going to go through the boxes.

Sometimes I think its easier to see things from the outside, i.e. in someone else's life. So it's easy for us to give advice, but harder to take it.

I've recently realized that I've been trying to control my dh to get him to do things I think he should be doing. I'm finding in some cases they are things that I can do myself. So for you its taking care of the taxes, for me its other stuff around the house.

I've been hearing a lot of stuff from my dh about how he figures he better "do something now or else he'll catch heck for it later". This comment made me really cranky, but I need to examine my behaviour to make sure that its not true.

I had to laugh a little about you saying the you taking the ladder to your dh enabled him to get mad. This isn't quite true, he can get mad all on his own, you being in his proximity and having a history of listening to him encouraged him that if he vented at you, you'd listen.

Cat, what about listening and repeating his comment about the tree? I hear that you took my bringing you a ladder to mean that I am pressuring you to do more with the tree. I'd like to clarify, I'm fine with how the tree is. This is the holiday weekend, and I thought this was what you wanted because you found it relaxing. Did I get that right?

"I was thinking through how would we like to balance our responsibilities with relaxing this weekend. I am thinking about finishing up XYZ. I am really stressed out about those boxes. can I count on you to get that done before dinner, so I can relax and enjoy our time after dinner?"

I don't know what the solution is, but I think that the thinking through it will really help you clarify what you want here, and what you can do to protect yourself if he's not enthusiastic and doesn't get his part done.

Have you ever read The Dance of Anger? I'm rereading it, and it talks about how the Dance is a way to divert us from doing the work to break free of our nonworking patterns.

I am so proud of you for finding the 90 degrees on this. Not on one end sitting back blaming your H as you three go down in flames. Not on the other end becoming obsessed and punishing and berating and interrogating him on every dime spent.

But rather, being proactive on protecting yourself by getting caught up on the back taxes, investigating into the credit counseling plan, and looking at other options. That's where I think WFG and KLD and others' suggestions are so worth looking at, because they involve you taking cotrol to get real financial safety.

Hi all, been busy with taxes and seeing mother and going to see Indiana Jones. Just finished 3 years of taxes, have an appointment with CPA tomorrow. Gonna give myself a break for a couple weeks, and then start inputting all of 2008 into a database so I never have to go through this again. H has a normal job now, so not as much receipts to deal with anyway. But it's been a weight on my shoulders for 20 years, and I never want to be like this again.

Anyway, wanted to comment, since I've been so busy, for feedback. I took the ladder out, but then sent D17 out to help him, and he griped to HER that I was giving him work to do by taking out the ladder. Fortunately, she doesn't take his crap and just ignores him. I've spent many years explaining to her how he works so that she won't take it personally. The only fear I have is that she'll decide all men are like him and decide to become a lesbian, lol!

Anyway, rest of weekend was fine. He continued to work outside all weekend, finished one box out of the 10 or so in the bedroom. He has control over the money from the sale of our old house, so if we end up having to pay on taxes, well, he could have spent the time looking for more receipts if he wanted to, and he can use the money to pay the back taxes. I've written off that money as not my own, so as not to have grief over it, so it doesn't matter to me any more if he blows it all. I'm paying off my own debt from now on and anything he racks up is his own problem.

I know that's a copout, but it's all I can handle at this point. My success is that I spent the entire weekend at the table doing taxes, instead of what I've done the last 30 years, which is to jump up and help H in whatever chores he decides needs to be done, and ignoring my own chores. Sounds stupid, but it's a victory for me.

ears, I think I'm kind of doing what you say, dissociating myself and protecting myself, while still trying to attend to him as a wife should. He DID take care of a lot of outdoor issues that needed to be dealt with, so I'll just try to look at it as progress. I told D17 this morning that I consider anything he does besides sleeping or sitting on the couch a victory. I know I shouldn't be parentifying her that way, but I want to make sure she doesn't take on any of his baggage as her own.

Wow, cat, how are you feeling? I'm imagining a mix of exhiliarated from all that you've accomplished, peace and a little leftover sadness from what you've come to terms with, and weary from working so hard. Is that close? What else are you feeling?

I can totally understand the taking a little time off for balance now! That's what I was thinking when you mentioned the family time the other night, that instead of viewing it as giving to get, which can become an expectation that sets us up for resentment, that you could view it as taking some balance for yourself and your family.

What do you like to do when you're relaxing for a few weeks? I loved how you talked to YAL about visualizing what you want your life to look like. There is an emphasis on that the in The Gaslight Effect, too, on not waiting until your life matches what you want, visualize and experience that life now, so you can take that and build it into your current life. I think that's what RC is about, too, bringing your favorite things back into your life in ways that stregthen your marriage, your individual growth, and your family life.

Cat, what goals are you working on in IC at this point?

I appreciate your help, ears, even when you have so much on your own plate.

Honestly, I really think I'm at a pretty good place. I have started being honest with H here and there, I have changed my dance somewhat such as not dropping everything to help H with what he decides needs done, and I've determined that now that taxes are gone, I will rededicate myself to exercising 4-5 times a week. So I think that focusing on that, and paying debt, and working on my house, and helping D17 work on college will be my focus for the next few months. I think those are accomplishable goals.

I've only seen IC once in the last month or so, she's been gone a lot. I think I see her next week. We never really seem to have any focus there, just whatever's on my mind. What would you suggest?