Believe it or not, FWW and I have had a pretty good stretch lately. "Pretty good" is a relative term, of course, but it's been better lately.

Well, I'm not a whole lot better on the inside, but I'm getting better at maintaining appearances...not letting the anger and sadness take control of me.

My vents and my expressions of anger here are not an indicator of how I am in real life. I really do try very hard to be a decent person on a day-to-day basis.

Things are going so well that my W has started talking about wanting a third child. She's always wanted three.

I told her that I would like that. I really would, but I get feelings of extreme anxiety just thinking about it.

For those who don't know, my W was six weeks pregnant on d-day. We had intentionally conceived...at the time, I had no idea she was cheating. OM didn't know she was pregnant, and my W claims that d-day was going to be their last "meeting". I know it's right out of the WS handbook, but the pregnancy and all that goes with it makes me think that maybe it's true in this case. I know, I know...don't count on it.

After a nine-month nightmare, the baby was proven to be mine.

My FWW has been remorseful and transparent other than a few "I don't knows" that she maintains to this day. I have zero evidence that she is still in that A or any other, but I would never, ever have caught her in her A had I not walked in and caught them red-handed. There never was a shred of physical evidence.

My question is this:

Keeping in mind that she's duped me before, should I take her desire for another child with me as a very positive sign that she's committed to me?

I know it's a judement call on my part, since I'm her H, I see her every day, and only I can judge her words and actions. I just can't help but wonder if it's really a sign of committment on her part, or if her motivations are selfish.

I assume no sane woman would intentionally get pregnant, by her H, with a third child while conducting an affair.

My problem is that that's exactly what she did with our second.

Not what you are looking for but I wanted to comment that I was concerned about you from what was happening to you the past week. Your posts normally scare the cr@p out of me because of the anger/venting and that has not been the case lately. I for one have noticed a change in your tone on the boards. Glad to hear it was because of a good stretch and not because you had given up.

My 2 cents - does your wife behave differently now? Is she more open with you about everything? I would think that you do believe she is an FWW otherwise your wouldn't refer to her that way. It would be WW.

Kids are great.

Krazy,

Given the anger issues you are still dealing with, the lack of consistent "buy-in" from your FWW, and the additional triggers you will experience during another pregnancy, I think I would pass on other children at this time, but that's me, and honestly, I don't know if I could have made it as far as you have, so I'll just offer my perspective and defer to YOUR decision.

I would never advocate having a child when one spouse is as uncommitted to the marriage as you are.

You are the biggest risk to your marriage now, Krazy, and I see no desire on your part to let go of the resentment and hatred you feel towards your wife.

That is pretty much the basic requirement of recovery.

Because of this I think you should not consider making another baby until your vicious resentment has been assuaged in some way.

Incidentally Krazy, I think that some people cannot recover from being cheated on. I thought for a long time I was one, but I am not. I'll get over this and have a great life. With Squid.

You , however, are very likely to be one of them IMO.
Rather than another child I think you should divorce your wife as viciously as you possibly can, using every legal trick to leave her impecunious and humiliated as possible.

Because short of killing her that is about the next worst thing you could do to her in punishment for her affair. And from your posts you clearly are more invested in revenge fantasies than you in recovery.

Ironically your sick SICK Auschwitz comment contains a lesson for yourself. Like the mocking quote over the gate at Auschwitz says Work ( on forgiveness) actually WILL set you free of hurt, Krazy if only you valued it as highly as you do finding new ways of expressing your hatred for your wife and people who have affairs.

If you stay with your W only to punish her and feel righteously superior to her, I pity her, and YOU, sir.

If you want to recover, time to work on it. Now it is YOU who is cake eating.

And no babies.

Now, now BP, he did open by saying that he confines his venting to here and is much saner in real life. I can certainly relate to that and I don't think anyone should be discouraged from venting here. You have to vent somewhere. At least here it's safe.

Yes, Krazy has a lot of resentment. All BS's do. Not everyone lets go at the same pace as others. That's why he's venting in the first place. Each time he vents, he lets a little bit more pressure out.

Krazy is also still looking for answers. His WW's A didn't have the characteristic fog and withdrawal described by so many here. Am I right about this Krazy? I know for myself, I couldn't begin to dig myself out of the pit until I understood how and why As happen, and began to recognize all of the WS traits in my Wstbx. I can only imagine it would be worse in attempting recovery. Not only are you asking how and why it happened, but how can you be sure it doesn't happen again.

But BP you are correct that Krazy should not (intentionally) have a child right now. Krazy, you have admitted a number of times that you aren't 100% sure you are going to be one of those guys that can make it. I read this to say that there still is a possibility of Plan D in your future. You already have 2 kids who will be affected by this. Focus your energies on these kids for now. Until you have gone past all of your doubt, don't make a complicated situation more complicated.

Krazy,

I sympathize in many respects, but feel your Auchwitz comment is a bit of a poor choice. Innocents were killed there.

I ask that you edit your post accordingly.

I think jail time or fines aren't out of order for cheaters, but what you said is a bit over the top and I'm not a big fan of thought police on this forum so I'm asking you simply edit it on your own.

I agree with Bob -- it is not your wife's reasons, but YOURS that should prevent you from bringing any more children into this mess.

Until you are 100% committed do NOT have another child.

As for your Auschwich comment - really? you don't believe in forgiveness or that a person is worthwhile and can change?
Just kill all of us that has made that mistake? I guess by your standards your wife wouldn't even be around to bear any more children....so your question is moot.

I think Krazy has some rough edges to work out...but bottom line is, I still se his wife as being the problem. I would NEVER have a child with a FWS that has not shown at least 2-3 years of consistent behavior. Even in that case, there would be a post nup that would spell out custody in the event of divorce. I also think a paternity test could be asked for by any BS.

I think if you have any doubt about her still lying, she should submit to a polygraph. "I don't remember" or "I don't know" is frequently...if not always..code for I am lying.

Kind of new to your situation Krazy, but I have to wonder...

Maybe your W is clued into your reticence about the marriage and wants the baby as a sort of reassurance and insurance. I know you said that she always wanted a third, but perhaps she's also hoping it will bond you to her.

Not saying that's necessarily a good thing at this point in time. And I'm just offering up one of many possibilities.

I appreciate all of the responses. I did edit my post.

Please keep 2 things in mind:

I didn't ask if I SHOULD have another child.

I DO mostly vent here, not in real life.

I'm looking for thoughts & opinions. Thanks.

Do I think your wifes mention of having another child shows commitment to you ?

I think it more likely shows a desperation for some security in her life with you; a manifest gesture that you love and accept her.

After all if you knowingly make a baby with her it would show you love and accept her right ?

I think your wife lives on a knife's edge fearing you will turn and ditch her any moment. And I suspect you quite like it that way.

How's that working out for you ?

Why the attitude?

Just my perspective (not directed at BP but the MB forums in general), but this board doesn't respond well to strong BH emotions (anger, rage, physical conflict, resentment, revenge, etc.), and I think because of that, many here don't relate well with your personality (nor mine either). Personally, I see the overall "softness" of this board being one of (if not the) biggest things that prevent the type results that MB proclaims, but rarely achieves.

I can relate to your personality very well, but MOST of the BH's with this personality type have either successfully recovered their M's through their efforts, or they proceeded to Plan D, and in either case they have left the forums. Therefore, when a strong, plain spoken BH shows up, they stand out, and draw criticism.

Personally, I view you as very healthy mentally ... this is just your place to come and vent your considerable frustrations. I also didn't have a problem with your original comments in this thread ... they were simply the products of your anger and desire for revenge, which is very understandable to me.

Hang in there, Krazy ... you may be a little at times, but I don't think you're nearly as Crazy as you or some others may think at times.

My attitude that your revelling in self righteous indignation is injurious to your recovery ? Because its true. I know because I've been there and I know what blessings await if you divest yourself of that crap.

And BTW I meant every word in my post, it was not written as "attitude". I DO believe you are very happy to keep your WW on her toes" in your marriage, and that you keep your hand on the hilt of the divorce sword whenever something happens that you don't like in your M.

And I think you need to BREAK the sword and try to recover or divorce. Living like you are is hell for both of you.

What is your PLAN for change in your current strategy K ?
While you keep fondling the handle of that D sword you don't have one, I guarantee that.

* Myrev, I handle it just fine when BHs hurt. I got about six monts of visceral hurt posts if ever you want to be depressed to death.

What I don't like is perpetual vicious venting from someone without any plan to change the status quo. Hope is not a plan. Holding a FWS a hostage to divorce is not a plan that I have eve seen work.

I spent enough time there to know it is a crap zone.

Hi Krazy--

I don't post much, and you may not want to hear my opinion since I am a FWW (but also was betrayed myself, and I still believe to this day I don't know the whole story about my H's betrayal-- just doesn't add up-- but I have no proof or way to show that, so I am "stuck" living with the story he's given me concerning it... I've come to terms with it... but I digress..).

So, I can see where your wife is coming from. I'm not that familiar with your story, but from reading other people's perceptions, I can see that your anger and resentment is very similar to my H's, and at times he's been manipulative, withheld affection, and had plenty of DJs and AOs (which he then claims I "deserve"). And I've been talking with the Harleys.

I feel that he always has one foot out the door, is always watching, not to build security and trust between us, but because he's looking for the tiniest little slip up so he can run out the door and pin all of this on me.

This has been going on for a year now... this is behavior I expected at first, but not a year later. And we haven't progressed and the relationship hasn't gotten better.

Now, I'll give him SOME credit. Recently, I've seen some changes in him, and I really like them, and it seems he's committing more, etc.

Anyways, so, I guess I can see where your W is coming from asking for another child. Truthfully-- that has crossed my mind too-- for the reasons another poster said-- looking for security and validation.

I realize that this is silly, and truthfully, I have kept it to myself-- because I believe it is a selfish desire on my part to have another child for my own security-- selfish toward the future child. So, I won't. But, its crossed my mind. And I've often wondered if things would change if I got pregnant accidentally (I'm not trying for that, and never would tho. I think it is despicable when women-- even married women-- get pregnant "accidentally" (ie- it wasn't really an accident, they just pretend it is...).

I would say a good sign from your wife-- she WANTS your approval and security and validation. But at the same time, it should be a HUGE RED FLAG for you that she would NEED another CHILD to get that sort of security from you. And that she's so desperate for it that she would go to that lengths.

Living in limbo forever and feeling like you are constantly on eggshells and under a microscope is no way to live, and its no fun. I wouldn't have a problem with it if I felt that it was there to build trust, but I feel like it is there to try to FIND my mistakes and use them against me-- and use it as justification to continue this towards me. Its rough.

And I've offered full transparency-- told him to check up on me, he has all passwords, etc. But he's not following his half of ANYTHING. And remember, he's cheated too. Its just in his mind his "isn't as bad" (although that's open to discussion... I think it was just DIFFERENT than mine, and that you can't assign "point" values to something like that...).

So, I would advise against the child, but take it as a sign that your wife is desperate for some approval and love from you, and to feel like you don't have a foot out the door all the time or are constantly looking for mistakes so you can jet...

And that's not a good feeling. And not one you want your wife to have. I know that even though I feel that way, I would NEVER EVER repeat my mistakes of the past, I have learned and I have changed. But I don't know your wife, or how "prone" she might be to relapsing with another man if she feels that insecure with you...

Just be careful you are not "setting the stage" again, Krazy. But-- she wants you and needs you-- a good thing

Work together. It will make it easier, I promise. I know you come here to vent, but you also need to find a way to get PAST those feelings, not just suppress them around your wife and vent them here.

Just my 2 cents.

E.

Bob,

It's clear that I've given a false impression of myself by often being so angry and upset when I post.

Most days you'd never know I'm angry at all, even if I am.

In the few weeks after d-day, serious talk of divorce came up a handful of times. Not because I was using D as a weapon, but because it was one possible outcome of the post d-day mess.

I can honestly say that I have never threatened her with D one single time in our entire marriage. Not once...not even on d-day when I was standing in front of her and OM. Both naked.

I, however, have been threatened with it more times than I can count on my fingers and toes since d-day. It's always been during an argument related to affair fallout and said out of anger, but it's been threatened.

You can only size me up based on my posts here, but in real life my W is FAR from cowering in a corner, hoping and praying I don't file for divorce.

It's my fault you've gotten the wrong idea about me. I'm not some scary guy who's an inch (centimeter :D) from beating his wife. I love her and I'm doing the best I can, and she knows it.

I don't mean to threadjack but I want to thank you for this post. I'm glad I saw it because it really hit home. I appreciate your taking the time to write this. It helped me.

It's clear that I've given a false impression of myself by often being so angry and upset when I post.

It doesn't matter a rats butt what impression I get, mate, its teh one your wife gets that is germane to your recovery.

Most days you'd never know I'm angry at all, even if I am.
I had to learn a new way of communivcating emotive topics respectfully. I can use words pretty well when i try and its very counter-intuitive for me to actually STRIP them of emotional portent in order to explain to Squid how I am feeling.

Stuffing it behind a rictus grin just builds resentment in YOU and insecurity in your W.

In the few weeks after d-day, serious talk of divorce came up a handful of times. Not because I was using D as a weapon, but because it was one possible outcome of the post d-day mess.

I can honestly say that I have never threatened her with D one single time in our entire marriage. Not once...not even on d-day when I was standing in front of her and OM. Both naked.


I never used divorce as a threat either. Instead I made it hover silently above her , justifying it to myself that because I wasn't openly inferring it I wasn't manipulating her. What BS. rewarded myself with divorce fantasies every tikme Squid did something I disapproved of. You think I could walk in those thoughts without it affecting my manifest coimmitment to my W and my marriage? You think she didn't pick up on that ? If you MEAN it it should be discussed as an option, but never as a threat.

I, however, have been threatened with it more times than I can count on my fingers and toes since d-day. It's always been during an argument related to affair fallout and said out of anger, but it's been threatened.

What is your response to that ? Do you avoid the conflict then come here and vent ?

You can only size me up based on my posts here, but in real life my W is FAR from cowering in a corner, hoping and praying I don't file for divorce.

Bear in mind that in unequal marriages, the spouse who needs the marriage least controls it. Does she control your marriage right now ?

It's my fault you've gotten the wrong idea about me. I'm not some scary guy who's an inch (centimeter :D) from beating his wife. I love her and I'm doing the best I can, and she knows it.
Every machine or process is perfectly calibrated to achieve the results it gets.

So to change the results you have to change the machine.

Whats your plan, mate ?