most do IMHO.

Also, hiding the content of the discussions also requires an deliberate act of deception. In criminal court, most infidelity would be considered a premeditated act(if in fact it were classified a crime). This is no invouluntary or negigent act.

BTW, hello Mrs. W. Thanks for the correction (although, humbly, I think both work just fine!).

LOL! You got me!

It was meant as a "polite correction", if that makes a difference MEDC! Being the wife of an attorney, as well as a former Criminal Justice major well, yanno, it just becomes INGRAINED!

What I was trying to explain though, is that by the time you get to that point, you are already deep in it...Altered...Self Deluded...FOGGY...Gosh, I wish so much that I could explain exactly what I know...Dat be hard! If I had more time right now, I'd try, alas, I'm out the door to meet Mr. W for a little work project and dinner...

Mrs. W

I posted this to Tyk when he was struggling with "why" the affair happened.

And I think you might some value in this. I'll try to read more about your situation TTH, but I suspect your wife wasn't even considering you when she chose to go forward with the affair.

Great post Lexxxy

I have been watching this thread for awhile and thought I’d throw in my two cents since I’m working on the same assignment as ILMH right now. I am writing scenarios to help keep my defenses up so that if I find myself in a similar situation as before, I have a strategy to keep from falling into the same trap.

First let me say that I believed I was impervious to having an affair. I believed our marriage was strong enough, and that I didn’t have a need to keep my defenses up because I didn’t believe I was vulnerable. I was high and mighty about it, in fact. A couple who are friends of ours divorced a few years ago because the husband had an affair. I was irate with him for hurting our friend like that. I was angry at Mr. Z for continuing to be his friend. I used to pride myself in being a conservative republican. I was always a hard worker and believed in working an honest day’s pay. If I went out for long lunch, I made up my time. I got a master’s degree while working full time and didn’t miss work while doing it. I was a self-righteous snob.

Then, the OM moved into an office right next to mine. A liberal, a prior musician, an avid book reader, and no college degree. I loved getting into banters with this guy about politics, religion, music, and art. Although I was very conservative, I was raised by liberal parents, my dad was an artist and I grew up to become a graphic designer and illustrator by trade. Even though I enjoyed arguing with this guy, a connection was simmering. As SH put it, and ILMH echoed, it’s like the frog on tepid water. The temperature was turned up slowly over several months and I didn’t notice that my defenses, my proud conservatism, my morals, my character, were slowly being boiled away to be replaced by an attraction that I allowed to consume me.

The reason this realization of letting down defenses is so important is that I know now what I did wrong. This guy knew how much I loved to hear compliments on my artistic talents, my opinions, the way I was able to cause him to “think” about things. He knew I didn’t like to bother with idle conversation. We took turns standing on our soap boxes, and delighted in the validation we received from each other. Now I know to avoid those kinds of passionate discussions with the opposite sex, unless it’s with Mr. Z. If someone of the opposite sex begins to marvel at my artwork, the correct response is to say “thank you” and not to indulge in what inspired me, or why I chose those colors, and never say anything like, “wow, you’re the only one who got that!” Do you see what I’m saying?

Also, if you read Surviving an Affair and Dr. Harley’s basic concepts, you know that he says that if you are getting your top emotional needs met by someone other than your spouse, you are vulnerable to an affair. When my hubbie read that, he felt that my affair was actually his fault because he realized he wasn’t meeting my emotional needs while someone else was. Once I admitted that it was my fault that I let my defenses down, it took him off the hook. He felt tremendous relief from that. This step has been crucial to us, more to the point, it’s been crucial for him to know that I take responsibility for my own actions.

I hope this helps

Mrs. Z

Great post mrs Z!

KNOWING you could have an affair is an excellent defence IMO.

OR as 1 Cor 10:12 puts it..

I know that i always get myself in trouble on these kinds of threads BUT i am going to post anyway.

I personally do not believe in "the fog" so to speak. I mean no matter what those innocent little things are that lead you down that path YOU knew they are wrong (no matter how innocent they seemed) and if you would think about it the other way around (if your spouse was doing it to you) YOU would never even start with the first little thing to begin with.

And once you did start with that first little thing you should have enough guts to talk to your spouse about it instead of taking the next step down that slope.

I have been in situations where i could have taken that first step and have ALWAYS chosen not to take it and TRY VERY HARD to NEVER let myself be in a situation where anyone else COULD meet my ENs. To me it has not been DIFFICULT at all for 25 years.

Even now when things are such a mess i would not CONSIDER talking to a memeber of the opposite sex about my personal life EVER (except for on this forum)!!!!

I agree with every word!

yeah sure **in a good marriage** that would be some reasonable steps.

But what you are not understanding is that most waywards that start affairs are not bonded to their spouse. They do not have the intimacy.

I was very much in a state of withdrawl from my husband at the time my affair started. (you know those stages Dr. Harley talks about: intimacy, conflict, withdrawl?)

And I also had underlying anger towards him because my plans and dreams for my family were taking a big backseat to his independent behavior.

So I had no interest in running to my husband with my concerns about this encroaching threat. Finally somebody was paying attention to me -- and I certainly didn't want my HUSBAND to spoil that!


So yeah, most of you would push away any threats to your marriage. Easy to say now. But if your needs aren't being met, and you aren't bonded to your spouse...it can happen.

I feel like I had been begging my husband for years to pay attention to me. I was sick of trying with him. Somebody else came along and it wasn't a big CHORE to be with me.

And it was easy for me to say when my needs were not close to being met in my marriage...I felt distant from my also distant spouse but NEVER entertained the idea of stepping out on her....and I was 26 at the time. My views are only stronger at this point in my life.

So, it's not just easy to say NOW...I have been tested in those fires and KNOW what I would say under any circumstances when it comes to infidelity.

whatever medc.
Of course you are the exception to every rule.
You are the perfect human model.

I was referring to the rest of us.

I would still DISAGREE on this matter.

When my H had his A more of MY EN were not being met than his and i still would NEVER EVER turn to a member of the opposite sex to EVEN discuss them much less have them be met by someone else.

I feel the biggest reason my H had an A was because we had a family member (he is MY family member not my H's) who lived in our home that i did not want to be there because he was a HORRIBLE ALCOHOLIC and it seemed like we were taking care of a kid rather than letting a 50 year old man have a place to live while he got on his feet. I begged and pleaded with my H to have this man leave our home.

Well my H kept making excuses as to why this man needed longer so after three years of this man living in our home i withdrew from my H. And he was still there for almost another year. Heck the reason he first went to the OW house was to take this guy and try to set the two of them up. The OW wanted my H and not the other guy and went for it HARD.

So in my eyes i was the one who COULD have had the A not my H because he was taking this man's feelings more into consideration than he was mine. No matter what i said or how i said it my H would always come up with a reason for this man to be there.

I still NEVER talked to any member of the opposite sex regarding ANY relationship issues PERIOD. And i know that i NEVER will.

Lexxy...why not the same resposne to this post from SC? Oh wait...never mind...who cares.

I thought the purpose of this thread was to help TTH understand "why" his wife had an affair.

I thought perhaps my comments would help him understand some of the wayward thought processes.

So I simply don't understand why you feel the need to discuss yourself.

That's just because you are the perfect human model SC.

That is GREAT, truly GREAT that neither you or Still will EVER have an affair! Good job.

Now can we get back to helping TTH understand how waywards end up entrenched in affairs?

by TTH
well, since these are TTH's words from THIS thread, I assume he understands and values my input.

Ok lets put MEDC, and Still, and TTH in the little bucket of people that will NEVER EVER cheat.

Now what?

Does he still want to talk about his original question?

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on this, but can you please try not to get personal with each other? It's not helping.

No-ones ideas are any better or worse than anyone else's. We simply each have our own unique perspectives. I believe this forum is intended for us to share our perspectives that we might try to get something of value from them.

I am a BS who has never cheated. There are many of us here. There are also many W and FWS's as well. Obviously we are not all going to see things through the same prism.

Sharing our differing points of view calmly and with respect for each others' differences is healthy and helpful. To reduce a change of opinion to petty sniping is childish and counterproductive.

I don't think any of us has anything personal against any other board member. H*ll, we don't even know each other...

I come here to get a respite from conflict, not engage further in it. Let's try to focus on the subject of each thread, not get derailed and end up in some unproductive pit of negativity.

Please?...

PS - I DO value everyone's input. As long as it's not petty and misdirected. MEDC and Lex, I get something from each of your visions of adultery. It helps me get closer to understanding what she did and where I am. Thank you both for taking the time to share.

PPS - Can someone clue me in on how to post those little quote boxes in a thread? I'm feeling pretty tech-challenged right now and may have to go listen to an 8-track...

I certainly don't agree that some people are "immune" to affairs...I feel that way BECAUSE I once thought the same...That I was "immune"...I learned the hard way otherwise...Dr. Harley also believes that none of us are immune...

I do not think that it will serve TTH and ILMH well at all for TTH to continue to believe as he does about his own immunity...It will cause him to feel "above" her...It will cause her to feel "looked down upon" by him...Not a recipe for a successful recovery...

I have noticed that some of the most successful recoveries here have this in common...The BS comes to understand that their WS is a FLAWED HUMAN, just as they themselves are a FLAWED HUMAN...That is a big step towards becoming a team...To deny your susceptiblity is to deny your humanness...

Mrs. W

P.S. Superhuman Action Figures like Batman/MEDC aside, of course!