I took what SC to mean is that getting off the slipery slope and doing the RIGHT thing was easier than staying on and doing the WRONG thing.

I said that "I" find it easier, obviously this forum would not exist if MOST found it easier.

This is true for me as well.

And that is EXACTLY what i meant.

Yes, that is how I took it.

I would not normally observe someone doing the right and easy thing and be amazed at the behavior.

these days I am more amazed by good than evil!

I do get your point here rprynne. Unfortunately just like the reasons this forum exists it RARELY happens that people do the "right" thing in this particular circumstance. That is why i found it AMAZING.

Try,

I want to make it clear to you (and others) that I am not here debating this immunity vs. non-immunity issue for myself...I don't need validation of that from people here...It is more than enough that Mr. W and I see eye to eye where that is concerned...It has served our recovery well-NOT just from my perspective, but from his too...

My intent is to help you, because IMO, it is an important issue to recovery...Seeing one another as human, in an empathetic way is helpful to both of you...Just as ILMH should try and put herself in your shoes as much as humanly possible...Lay down arms...You are not adversaries...You are on the same team...When you come to each other with humble hearts recovery looks less daunting...

Mrs. W

Ok.


Me too. Which is why I asked the question.


Fair enough and I agree.

FWIW, I don't say to people I would never have an A. The way I view it, is that I can not imagine any scenario in which I would have an A. I just can't. This is even more so since d-day. But I also accept the fact that I can't imagine every possible scenario that could possibly occur in my life. I like to think I have complete control over what scenarios may one day occur, but I realize that I don't. So, I leave it at that.

I would say that when a FWS's says that before they had an A, they knew they would never cheat, were really in the same position. They "knew" this, because they could not imagine a scenario in which they would cheat. This POV is inherently risky, because in most cases, you can't really "know" what you will do until you find yourself in that situation. It reminds of the old saying in boxing, "everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." People usually don't prepare themselves for a scenario they never expect to happen.

Well put. Unless you're Jesus himself, no one can say they will ALWAYS resist-- well they can say it-- but only the future will prove if it's true.

Would it be fair to say that adultery happens when motive meets opportunity?

Oh I agree, there is ALWAYS a motive, even if it's concocted in hindsight. It can be either way actually -- opportunity creates motivation or motivation creates opportunity.

For what it's worth,


Yes, that's exactly what I tried to say about 10 pages ago, which is to indicate a process that has to happen before one acts upon the motive.

This is where a systematic process of dispelling each and every core boundary, one by one, is necessary to achieve that purpose.
As MEDC would say from a legalistic ppoint of view: premeditation!

This is why I stand with Dr Pittman when he says the choice has been made before the act!

To come back and claim "poor me, I didn't see my weakness," is in MHO, at the very least, disingenous (sp, as usual).

We are all weak as humans. The difference comes from the choice to keep our boundaries in place, or the horrible choice to dispell and view those boundaries as obstacles to our desire.

That's what sin is all about, including adultry.

JMHO

All blessings,
Jerry

Yeeeeeesssssss

In one of the lessons that I remember from a recent sermon, our pastor said that he often prays to God for this one simple thing:

Keep me from the desire to sin when I have the opportunity and keep me from the opportunity to sin when I have the desire.

A friend told me that it is the "red light, green light" prayer. I think it fits perfectly with MB. We help to keep ourselves from the desire to sin by building a strong relationship with our spouse where our needs are being met and we are content to remain. We help to keep ourselves from the opportunity to sin by putting boundaries and extraordinary precautions in place.

TTH,

Just had to make a reference to the Dead...I wrote my undergraduate thesis on the question of morality in the concentration camps during the second world war and found a perfect quote that embodied the question of WHO is culpable for their actions (or inactions)...I used it as a dedication...

"Am I the victim or the crime?"

There's ALWAYS an excellent lyric or two to be found to fit any circumstance IMHO :-)

HTM

Premeditation doesn't begin to occur until some of the weaknesses have already gone unprotected though...By the time it occurs steps to infidelity have already UNKNOWINGLY, in many cases (if not most), happened...

An example that I've already shared on another thread here...

One of our staff recently didn't have enough gas to get to our newest location that we are currently doing build-out on...

She asked Mr. W if she could ride with him...

Due to our new "pass EVERYTHING by each other" rule, Mr. W asked if I would be okay with that...I said, "NOOOOOO" (pre-affair he would not have asked and I would not have cared, because I didn't know to)

Here's why I said "no"...Because I realize NOW that that is the very tip top of the slope...That after saying yes one time, the second, third, fourth, etc. would be NO BIG DEAL...During those rides, obviously conversations would take place...familiarity would be bred...and so on and so forth...So that IF an affair did take place the "where it all began" could be traced right back to that intial "innocent seeming" ride...

Mr. W didn't see that as a potential weakness until I pointed it out...Affair proofing your marriage is a TEAM EFFORT...

I do not in any way believe that Mr. W was "premeditating" an affair, when he failed to see that as a potential weakness...

But that's all it takes folks...The devil is in the TINIEST of details...Ones that are OFTEN overlooked...

Mrs. W

P.S. FTR, our employee was given an advance in order to afford gas...

I respectfully disagree. Dropping boundaries and allowing youself to venture forth "unproteceded" is a concious decision, it is not nealy so subtle as you may propose.

When core boundaries are dropped, they are so with a motivation, even if that motivation is unhealthy to the M.
This is the beggining of replacing boundaries with desire.

I dunno, this is JMHO, and probably is meaningless. But it took me six years to finally get here.

At this point, it doesn't matter. I will have a great life with my W because I love and forgive her. should there be another betrayal, I will abandon her in a new york minute.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Jerry...

Did you read my example? Do you honestly think Mr. W was premeditating an affair? I certainly do not...Do you see how giving that ride wouldn't have been protecting a weakness?

Mrs. W

I think EVERY A is premeditated!!!

It begins in the fantasy of your mind that everyone here loves to call the fog for lack of a better expantion.

It's only called fog when you can't or won't expalain it!!

IMHO, no A takes place without premeditation!!

It's that premeditation that allows you to drop each of your boundaries, one by one, and inch by inch.

All just part of the "victumhood" mentality that a phych can make you feel somehow better about. for some, it's the very best they can live with. OTOH, true repentance is taking full resposibilty for your horrible choice WITHOUT PUTTING A LABEL ON IT!!

It was yours and you own it. You can always be forgiven by Christ, and even your BH, but the damage and fallout will still always belong to you. "NOT YOUR WEAKNESSES!"

I have weaknesses too, but I chose not to act upon them!

JMHO

All Blessings,
Jerry


JMHO

All Blessings,
Jerry

No, I don't. I didn't know Mr. W had a weakness for this woman that needed to be protected. We can affair proof a marriage by putting people in a bubble too. I think him riding with her would be fine so long as the conversation was NO DIFFERENT than it is in the office setting. JMHO...but you both know your weaknesses...so, it is best to protect them.