Hi Carlee,

Texted the WW yesterday before leaving Washington. Trying to plan A a little after closing down her bank accounts etc. I knew she would still be angry. Anyway she texts me back and says she's no longer angry and was sorry for flying off the handle. Told me she understood why i was doing it and didnt blame me. Spoke to her again last night for a half hour, very funny and pleasant conversation, no mention of any troubles, although of course she went out with 2 of our homosexual male friends earlier that night as one of their parents was in town, or so she said, once again leaving our 2 kids at home alone. The kids did say they were invited though but didn't choose to go. These are the guys she left me with to disappear to the Super Bowl in Tampa a few years ago. I used to feel safe with them taking her to events when i was out of town or deployed because they took good care of her, are very nice, and I didn't have to worry about anyone hitting on her.

Anyway, here's the fog babble I believe. She said she was glad I was making such an effort to keep us together and that she had had to do something to shock me and wake me up and pay attention to our her and the children before they were old enough to leave the house.

Now I grant that the military is hard on families and the separation is also difficult, but essentially she is, I think, trying to claim that she started partying like a teenager, leaving our kids at home 6 nights a week, planted lingerie and UTI medicine around the house to make it look like she was having an A and then told me she wanted a separation, started spending the night out with no contact and told me to "get used to it" in order to shock some sense into me that she was feeling very neglected/abandoned and so were the kids. I asked her if that was the case; that she had done all that to get me to "wake up and pay attention to her and the kids?" She didn't answer...

I was speechless. First I don't believe hardly a word of it, there's far too much going on for that to be the sole reason, although she has complained about it for awhile, even though we mutually agreed that I needed to take this job because of the pay.

I thinks PLan A is working a bit, she seems more amenable to talking to me now that i am nicer, but it won't be enough to stop the A or A's.

I think this is an excellent time to stop asking questions about A's to lull her into a false sense of security that I've finally stoped wondering, practice plan A and continue to very surrepticiously snoop, perhaps with the PI. What do you think?

I won't be home till next weekend, so I am sure her social calendar will be very full this weekend as well.

Lastly on another front, I found myself really depressed and needy today. I know, sorry if you think all military officers are Rambo all the time. But I find with her being nice to me now, even if she is manipulating me and doesn't mean it, makes me miss her all the more and despair when she doesn't call me and my mind begins to wander to thoughts of where she is and with whom, and the fact that i've been dumped. OK, nuff whining.

I thought you already hired one?

I don't get it.


Maybe the stick part of Plan A, although she could do w/ alot more stick if you hire a PI and find out what's going on!

She's being nicer b/c she doesn't want you to cut off the money.

SWW,

Just be careful. Remember that the FOG is so thick, whether it is the FOG of an A or the FOG of addiction. She has had time to think about this with her "shock" that you are taking action.

Make some plans for fun things to do with your kids when you get back home next weekend. Preoccupy your time with thoughts of them and with healthy activities so you don't go crazy this weekend.

Marshmallow,

No just spoke with a PI and got details. I have to talk to him when i get in town late this week to devise best plan of what are the best times to follow her. of course with her, just about any time the sun starts to go down is appropriate these days.

I agree, she doesn't want me to cut off all the $ she has been blowing through.

onlyUcan,

OK, I will focus on the kids. Just found out she is going out again tonight while I sit in a hotel...sigh...

Tyk,

Yeah that was a little crummy to do, sorry. I had only a few minutes and didn't have time to post the whole thing till now.

Hello, SWW!

Well, that is a very interesting turn of events. This is not my area of expertise, but it seems that you've made progress and can at least remain "cautiously optimistic." I'm sure feels good just to be on better speaking terms with your wife.

Of course, as OnlyU and Marsh have suggested, there is still much work to be done. Remain strong, my friend, and don't apologize for needing emotional support. As human beings, we all need that.

Please keep us posted. We're pulling for you. :-)

Carlee

Thanks Carlee and everyone,

Stop the presses, WW is actually staying home on a friday night with her children and is cooking real "food" bought at one of these places called a "grocery store" on this contraption called a "stove". She also took them to the pool all day today and apparently took time to speak to them.

I know it won't last but at this point anything is a reason to have a little hope. Actually called me and said she was going to feed the kids and would call me later...

I haven't chimed in yet, but I thought I'd give you some support (and btw, even Rambo must get emotional every once in awhile).

I think you're doing a GREAT job with what you have to deal with. I spent, I guess, the first ten years of my M as a married single. I knew my friend's H's didn't behave like mine, but I could never seem to get him to understand that it was wrong to go out and party without your W and when I stood up, I was seen as a b*tch. I now know better. The last three+ years, H added an A to the mix and I still never managed to get through the fog and stand up.

Then H came clean (of his own accord). We've been working on recovery for four months now. It's a rough road, but he's started to become that H that I always hoped I would have but never did.

I guess I'm telling you this because I think it's sometimes important to know that it CAN change. That your WW CAN change. That it CAN get better. It doesn't always, but it CAN.

I think the PI is an excellent idea. Putting the question to rest in your own mind will enable you to stay steadfast in your journey. And once you have proof, you can expose and hopefully end it.

I'm not a vet, so I may not give the best advice, but I want you to know that I am here as well...fighting the fight, working through the challenges, riding the roller coaster...and if a housewife can survive it, then Rambo sure can.

SWW,

Any chance your WW found this thread?

I thought that b/c "not knowing was physically killing you" you'd have had that PI working over time for you...

So, YES, hire one, pronto.

I read or heard Dr. Harley once say that when a man takes abuse from his WW, and is still in love w/ her, it is more than likely b/c she is very beautiful.

I wonder if this explains, in part, your R.

hicktownmommy,

thanks for your comments. It's weird, my story is similar, I never really stood up to my WW. Good for you for standing up, maybe it will work for me as well.

Marshmallow,

Any chance you were that Marine Gunny I had 19 years ago? I need it! Thanks! You are right, I needed to get off my [censored], sneak home, hire the PI and get it over with already and stop whining and making excuses. I go home thursday, i will talk to this guy again Monday.

No chance WW has found this thread. I have told no one about it, and I work in a facility where nobody can ever see what i am doing on a computer unless they are inside and while I am logged on at a hotel I have taken measures to be sure I cannot be traced or it can be traced to me, unless someone was really serious and suspected already, which, as I said I have said nothing.

Interesting what you said about Dr. Harley. Did he really say that "when a man takes abuse from his WW, and is still in love w/ her, it is more than likely b/c she is very beautiful?" That sounds like an odd thing to hear from a Psychologist, but must come from extensive experience.

That sounds like my situation to a tee. She is. She is a real head turner. All she has to do is smile or wear the right outfit and guys flip. I always knew it and took some satisfaction that my W was really hot, but never worried at all about an A till the last year.

As I look back, I remember times we would go out together and she (as I recollect now) was looking smoking hot, tight skirt, heels, low cut top, hair done, and guys definitely paying attention. I never really thought about it. She used to gripe that I wouldn't get her a drink when she wanted, that i was talking to my friends and ignoring her.

I guess 20 years of that and she had had enough. What a mistake that was!

I'm not sure Dr. Harley said it was abuse the H was taking...maybe it was just not getting his EN's met. It's been a while since I read/heard it.

If I were to guess, I'd say your number one EN is physical appearance followed by SF.

Your W met your top ENs very easily for you.

Which is probably why you ignored your better judgement back in college when you got back together w/ her.

And why you have over looked alot of her behavior during your M.

What about her ENs? Do you know what her top ENs are?

And how can you meet them when you are away from her 5 days a week? Dr. Harley says you ought to be spending 15 hours a week together.

Hi Marsh,

Actually not. While I have always appreciated that my W was beautiful it was not my number one need by any stretch. While I have not having taken the EN test yet so I don't know the exact terminology, i would say my number one EN would be affection and validation that i was loved in return. Also, SF for me is not an act just to fulfill a physical need. In fact I have been by far the more giving of the 2 of us in that respect.

As far as why i got back together in college, yes she made me jealous by dating my friend, but she also changed her appraoch completely and began opening up and sharing her feelings with me, told me she loved me and wanted to marry me and why. As we got back together there was a concerted effort on her part to meet those needs.

Once we were married though it went back to as it was before. I was always the one to say "I love you." Maybe this is not one of her needs.

Why Have I overlooked her bahaviour during our M? I honestly don't know. Maybe I have been too scared to really stand up to her. She has a temper, and also plays the shutting down card very well to get what she wants. She needs $, social status, position and power. (I don't mean to portray her completely as a calculating shallow person, she can, very very occasionally be affectionate and sweet.) I provided that for her for a long time. When our business went down the tubes though, primarily due to 2 years of hurricanes, her need for $ began to not be met. My IC says she feels abandoned due to my travel etc. but this behaviour on her part never cropped up when the $ were rolling in.

Do I honestly know what her emotional needs are? I would have to say no. She does not like to discuss matters of the heart at all; makes her very uncomfortable I believe because she has to show vulnerability.

How do I spend 15 hours a week in my current situation? I can't, that's why I am desperately trying to get a civilian job lined up at home.

My sister recently asked me, "You are trying to get this huge job that pays a lot of money at home because you know that's what will make WW happy right? Well what kind of marriage do you have if that's all that's important to her?"

Here are the list of emotional needs...

Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration

When you take the questionaire, don't answer according to what needs your W isn't meeting. Try to answer them according to what really makes you feel loved.

And vice versa. B/c your W is beautiful, you might be tempted to put that need at the bottom, b/c she has got that covered.

You see?

It takes a little thought.



Right. Which is why Dr. Harley includes it in his EMOTIONAL needs list. It is more than just a physical need. It is an emotional need too.

I think it is the one place where men are 'allowed' to be intimate.



This isn't what you originally said. I believe you, I just think your initial post was more telling about what really got to you then.

Also, w/ regards to your W's beauty. Lots of men mention their Ws good looks, but you mention them more than most. That's why I still think physical attraction is a high need of yours.


This is the one thing that has puzzled many women on the board. Why so many BS's are afraid of their Ws anger.

Don't be afraid of her anger. She has learned how to use it to get what she THINKS she wants from you. What she really wants...what all women really want is a man who is man enough to stand up to her.

Honest.

Hold her accountable for her actions. Decide what you want from your M, and if she can't/won't try to build that kind of M w/ you, then cut her loose.

Take note of what happened when you took back control of the money. Initially she got angry. But, when you didn't fall apart at it, what did she do?


Her number one EN might be FS. Which might be the reason she started 'acting' out when you took a pay cut.

Or...

it could be something else that you provided when you were home more. W/ her more.


Good! B/c your M and family is falling apart and if you want to have a prayer at saving either/both, you need to get yourself home more often than just weekends.


And what was your reply to her?

Marsh,

you are right. I need to take the EN test. Is it on the homepage by link or in one of the books. Yes, it may sound shallow, but attractiveness is important to me, not the most, but it is important. Maybe you are suggesting that that is the real reason I have been willing to put up with her behaviour for so long.

Yes, I have started to stand up like a man and haven't backed down one bit, but i am being calm and rational about it. Yea, no woman wants to be married to a wimp who doesn't stand up for himself.

As to what my sister said, I really didn't have a good response. She is giving me a lot of advice, but it mostly seems to be directed towards making me "see the light, and get a divorce from a toxic person who is incapable of telling the truth."

SWW,

Marshmallow is taking you through a real "gut check" exercise that is very healthy. Stay with the process, get clear and take committed action.

Good job!

As for your sister, you can't really take her advice...it will always be one-sided because you are her brother! She will always see the path that takes you away from pain. Even having experienced Infidelity, I did the same thing with my brother when he was going through it. I didn't want him to suffer, that's just how we sisters are.

thanks onlyUcan,

I know and i need it. I had the most disturbing dream I have ever had in my life this morning. I had a flight to go meet my W, and at every layover for some reason I would get off the flight to do something. When i would return the plane would be gone. I would go into a stark raving panic each time and beg the airline people to help me, which they did, but when i would get to the next city i did it again. again panic, but it would work out. When I reached my W's home city there she was. We sat down together waiting on the bags talking pleassantly.

She looked like she was glowing white, like an angel smiling and said she was tired and I rubbed her neck and stroked her hair. She smiled at me and closed her eyes while i stroked her hair, her still glowing white. The bags started to come out and I said hold on, I'll get our stuff when she said, "that's ok, I am staying at the Wyndham downtown and I already have my stuff." I asked why? She said it was closer to her friend " name's" house from High School. My stomach dropped 100 stories in my dream and I woke up and had to go to work.

I know this isn't a psych analysis center, so I prob should'nt have told that. I may be thinking and dreaming irrationally, but I continue to act rationally, plan A'ing but 180'ing too.

I'll post again when I have something to say that's actually relevent to the topic at hand.

Oh yes, and if you all want to collectively toss me off this website due to this "dream" post, I won't like, but couldn't blame you. Gotta go catch a flight back to DC.

LINK TO QUESTIONAIRE

No, it's not shallow.

It's an emotional need.

And yes, I think that is how you could stay in love w/ her even though she was love busting you.



Exactly what you want to do more of.

Stand up to her w/o being a bully or love busting.

Women can't love a man they doesn't respect.


That might be the direction you will need to go in.

But, you need info to be able to evaluate what you're dealing w/ here.

Is it an A? A drug addiction? A seriously flawed person?

Hire that PI to help you figure this out.

Also, when your W fell in love w/ you back in college,you must have been meeting her top ENS, which DID NOT include FS.

What were they?

They haven't changed.

I HIGHLY recommend that you get the books, His Needs Her Needs, as well as, Surviving an Affair.

You can order them on CDs too.