Amazin - in an effort to not "threadjack" Believer's thread I thought I'd respond briefly to your questions without really trying to answer them here.

Do you want answers to them from a "humanistic" framework or from God's perspective as He has revealed it to us in His Word?

If you want to discuss these from God's perspective, I'd be willing it talk about them, on another thread, perhaps on the Recovery forum or whereever you might like to start such a thread.




Here, briefly, IS the answer to your questions: "Faith, hope, and love remain. But the greatest of these is love." "Love" as God intended it to be and as He has commanded us. From that springs faith and hope. It does NOT come from "mind games" we play with ourselves. Our PURPOSE in life is NOT to "overcome obstacles," though without God there really isn't any other way to deal with things that impact us other than to "turn them around" in a "self-preeminent" way, to "protect" ourselves and maintain ourselves as the "center of our universe."

God bless.

A woman will get this analogy easier than a man for the simple reason that each woman, as she goes through childbirth has a reference for what it means to either fight the pain and get more pain, or surrender to it, breathe into it and work with it to complete the process.

Too many times, when life gets difficult, we want to get up off the delivery table and say, I'm done - as if we have a choice to run from difficulty - instead - it follows us, and gets worse!

Imagine the wayward prone person recognizing their REAL thought processes BEFORE the affair - and saying the truth in translation - gee life is tough - I think I'll add some more difficulty!

For men, if you've ever had deep tissue massage where old injuries have left scarring... Have you ever heard your massage therapist telling you to breathe and relax while he grinds his elbow into your back or quad or glute? And instead, you fight him by tensing the muscle he's working on - the act of "protecting" that area through tension only increases the pain exponentially. Next time, relax! Focus on breathing. Soon you'll find the knot unwinding and the tension you carried into the appointment with the therapist gone! Life becomes difficult but bearable.

So the lesson is to relax and breathe! You're in good hands!

That was really good KaylaAndy!

"relax and breathe, you are in good hands!"

And Cind said it right too with " Living well"

I have not been relaxing and breathing lately, and I mean long before the mess of the last few days. I have had SO much going on with full time school, full time work, packing a house and moving little by little each weekend into a new one, getting kids registered for a new school, getting their physicals done, etc, etc... I have not had time to breathe and have felt on the verge of a meltdown for some time now. It is a lot to do all by myself. I have been forgetting to "live well" and forgetting to "breathe" and not putting things in God's hands where they belong, instead trying to do everything on my own. It is very overwhelming.

I am hoping that once the move is done, and I know all things are taken care of, that I will come down an notch or two.
I only have one term of college left as well and I will be done.
If I can just hang on for a bit longer without completely losing it!

mlhb

Victor Frankl wrote my favorite book of all time called, "Man's Search for Meaning".

The basic premise of his book is that suffering is inevitable, but we can achieve greatness and be defined, even uplifted, by how we overcome that suffering or cope with it.

We can wallow in the suffering or accept that it's simply a part of life and continue living despite the suffering.

I've been feeling this more and more lately, especially when it comes to my kids and being able to see them.

I can accept things as they are and know that they will be that way, hope for more in the future, but not get engrossed in the day to day disagreements with my ex about being able to be involved in their lives.

I've accepted that she will never see things my way and will always view me as an obstacle or hinderance and a nuisance. She's the mother of my kids, regardless of how I feel about her personally.

So accepting that she's different and is blind to her role in our conflict has been very liberating, because I simply expect her to behave as she does and it doesn't surprise me anymore.

Gas prices go up. I can't control that.

Bills increase. Can't control that either.

We go to war. Nope, no say in that.

My kids are growing and I see them less than I wish. Well, I'm trying to do something about that, but need to learn to maximize whatever time I do get.

Life is a series of challenges and so is marriage and friendships and just living in general.

But the biggest lesson for all of us to learn, regardless of where we are, is that marriage is hard and takes work. Bailing to find greener pastures won't decrease your problems, only increase them.

Quotes from Victor Frankl and "Man's Search for Meaning" (the only book I've ever read that prompted me to grab a highlighter):

"We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."

"Nietzsche's words, 'He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how.'"

"When we are no longer able to change a situation—just think of an incurable disease such as inoperable cancer—we are challenged to change ourselves"

"Fundamentally, therefore, any man can, even under such circumstances, decide what shall become of him - mentally and spiritually. He may retain his human dignity even in a concentration camp."

"We can discover this meaning in life in three different ways: (1) by creating a work or doing a deed; (2) by experiencing a something or encountering someone; and (3) by the attitude we take toward unavoidable suffering."

"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life—daily and hourly. Our answer must consist, not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual."

"Man is capable of changing the world for the better if possible, and of changing himself for the better if necessary."

"Set me like a seal upon thy heart, love is as strong as death." (Cf. Song of Solomon 8:6)

"We have come to know man as he really is. After all, man is that being who invented the gas chambers of Auschwitz; however, he is also that being who entered those gas chambers upright, with the Lord's prayer or the Shema Yisrael on his lips."

"A man who for years had thought he had reached the absolute limit of all possible suffering now found that suffering had no limits, and that he could suffer still more, and more intensely."

"Woe to him, when the day of his dreams finally came, found it to be so different from all that he had longed for!"

"We were not hoping for happiness---And yet we were not prepared for unhappiness."

"Live as if you were living already for the second time and as if you had acted the first time as wrongly as you are about to act now!"

I've lived most of my life under the assumption that life is tough, and you just need to adapt and learn how to overcome, to solve the riddles to work your problems. Life isn't easy.

It wasn't until I began allowing my WH's view of life seep into my brain that I had PROBLEMS. I didn't know how to solve them because I couldn't. They really weren't MINE to solve. When we had a child together, PWC was VERY negative, about nearly everything. I allowed that to paint my view of having a child. I struggled with his negativity, because it was never like me to allow the challenges in life to get me down.

When PWC was having his affairs, I allowed that to color who I thought *I* WAS, as some reflection of his choices and actions. I AM NOT. I am who I color myself to be, and a product of my own choices and actions. It surprises me how enmeshed I became. I am unfolding, little by little, day by day, and finding myself hidden inside. It's a blessing to accept lifes challenges again.

Yes, life has thrown me a huge curve ball. I just need to practice my swing.

It's not how hard or far you fall, it's how high you bounce.


Life has difficult moments. But life, in and of itself, is not difficult. I don't believe that overall, life is difficult.

It depends on how you look at it. Someone said on this thread that "venting" has become something in pop psych or pop culture that is overused. I cannot agree more! I think one of the problems we face today is that people believe that venting, or complaining about problems is an acceptable approach to relief of negative feelings towards those problems.

To some degree, venting is probably helpful. In a limited format, I am certain that there is a healthy release of anger in the use of venting. And certainly, it is a human reaction to situations to complain about things that are bothering us.

HOWEVER (you all knew that was coming, right?)


Science does show us that what you think about is what you talk about, and what you talk about is what you think about.

So, repeated "venting" is probably not a good idea. This can likely contribute to a cycle of venting-ruminating-venting-ruminating which can be unhealthy depending on a person's nature and ability to cope, etc. Also, if you make this a habit, and do not intervene in the problem with an ACTIVE SOLUTION - that is, if you only vent-ruminate-vent - then there is no problem solving going on. This type of behavior can lead to problems with sadness and an outlook that focuses only on THE PROBLEM, and does not see any type of outcome that looks hopeful.

A similar situation comes of complaining all the time. Too much complaining about a problem, and not enough looking at the truth or facts of a situation, not enough working towards solutions, can create negative outlooks and negative outcomes emotionally for people.

Downward spirals - that is the problem with too much venting and complaining.

You can see this at work in your workplaces. People in cliques who are the "complainers" at work, or a specific person at work who does this. Many times, these people actually have a lot to offer, but are very frustrated over something in particular and cannot seem to work it out for some reason. Take a look at how the dynamics of these groups work. They tend to be the more unhappy folks on the job, tend to be less involved in the solutions to problems, tend to be the people who will point out potential roadblocks to possible solutions or will tell others why solutions will "never" work, tend to be naysayers in new projects, etc. They also do try to come up with new ideas, but will tend to be the first to tell others why nobody will listen to the idea, or why the bosses won't try it. Watch for the dynamic in the workplace - chances are you have seen it at one or another place you have worked.

But the complaint goes on and on and on - it never stops, and the worst part is, everyone is tired of it, including the complainers.


It is a very hard rut to get out of, once it starts. Because the cycle feeds itself. The brain works that way - the talking feeds the brain, the brain feeds the talking. Works the same way in marriages, friendships, churches, workplaces, whatever it is.

How to change it? Change what you are SAYING. How you say it. Look at facts.

You look at the words you are using. No, LIFE isn't hard. Life has hard MOMENTS. What is hard about life? Lots of things. But let's get down to the reality and facts - there are so many beautiful things about life, too. For each and every hard thing, there is one balancing easy or beautiful thing as well. Truth in that.

So I've changed my mind on this. Life overall isn't hard. Sure, we face challenges in life. We also face beautiful and glorious moments that make it all worth the living.

Yesterday, I saw an enormous butterfly. I watched it for 15 minutes, taking nectar from my lantana bushes. Glory in the beauty and splendor, the delicacy of the wings that carry that creature aloft on the breeze. Those 15 minutes? Not hard at all. Not at all.

Just glorious and full of wonder. God's work before my eyes.

SB

I have friends and family that complain all the time. It's like their way of communicating. We talk about their complaints.

I have wondered if it's not solely so someone will pay some form of attention to them or pity them (yuck).

I'm not going to spout off and say that I never complain. I certainly have, and do. I sometimes complain about the complainers in my life (rolley eye here) I don't make it a habit to wallow in it, though. It's usually done to get the angries out, and then I can either drop it or work on a solution, if the situation warrants one. Some situations are just annoying, like traffic, or a cold, or the HEAT (105 degrees today--WHEWEEEEE--that's HOT!!!); I rarely complain about that stuff. I don't have the power to change it, but I can remedy it. I can float in my pool, to negate the heat

SL,

Yeah, I can't say that I don't complain either!

It's just that we can't let it all be about complaining, or venting. There has to be some action towards fixing the problem, or it winds up all being about the venting. That gets old. And people end up not liking you!

Really - who wants to sit and listen to griping all the time? Who wants to listen to complaining, especially the same old complaint, again and again?

That's sort of what venting can become, if we aren't careful. I guess my point was that while venting is okay - it's only okay with limitations.

A person has to vent, then MOVE AHEAD. Have a plan, and take action to make things right in their world - to take control of the things they can control, and work toward a solution. Solve the things they CAN solve. Complaining about things you cannot do anything about only goes so far.

Change what you can.

Plan for what you can plan for.

The rest? That's up to God, I guess.

But I've never figured that complaining for too long ever did much to make a difference in it.

SB

I would have loved to learn these things another way, but the affairs and dealing with the trauma and learning and growing from it have taught me that there are more things to life if you just open your eyes and shut your mouth for a minute.

I have a close friend who seems to complain all the time, and tends to be an attention seeker/junkie. It can be very annoying. I have actually gotten to the point of being angry with myself for being annoyed by her complaining. I cannot change her. I can only accept and move on. Her complaints aren't about work. It's usually about something stupid she did to HERSELF, like a sunburn or not sleeping enough ('cause she was out late partying) or whatever the wind blows her way.

I tend to vent and then move ahead. I don't vent nearly as much as even a couple of months ago. Sometimes I feel downright ZEN.

It's gotten to the point that i can FEEL others tension in their body movements. It's a little disconcerting at times.

edit

You know, I don't know that I've ever inspired a topic of such discussion. I'm bustin' w/ happiness. See, sometimes I can be a thinky person!!!!!!

life is hard
life is not fair
and
things happen because they do...not because of some great cosmic conection meant to teach us a lesson...

there are lessons everywhere and in everything...

well that just my opinion

ark

Yes, Cinders, lots of different viewpoints.

It is a wonder the divorce rate isn't higher than 50%. People expect life (and marriage) to be easy.

I'm continually amazed at the reasons folks give for affairs - depression, sickness, inability to have kids, leading separate lives, being bored, EN's not being met.................

It is the stuff we used to call life.

I've been here a long time and have seen the aftermath of lots of affairs and divorces.

One of my favorite sayings is from Frank Pittman who says having an affair is like burning down the house because the bathroom needed remodeling.

Believer, you didn't know that was a good way to get your home renovation costs paid for by someone else.

Sort of like my x...left us then wanted me, with no job, to pay $17K in debts he had run up and pay him $16K for the equity in the house or he wouldn't give me a quit claim deed to the house.

If there is one classical philosopher I would like to study, it would be Augustine.

I once read Terry Waite's autobiography. He was the envoy of the Archbishop of Canterbury. He went to Tehran to try to facilitate the release of some hostages during the early 1980s. He was captured, also, and spent almost 5 years in solitary confinement.

In one paragraph, he had a quote from Augustine and that quote has gotten me through a lot of stuff and has been very healing for me.

To have peace, you must know yourself. To know yourself, you must be alone.