Hello, first post. I'm not sure that I have a question so much as I need to vent. My W and I have been married for almost 5 years. We have 3 kids, the eldest is not mine by blood, he was 2 when we got married. The second was born nine months later. Needless to say, there were many stresses in our life that allowed us to neglect each other and focus on other things.

We have had issues for a long time, over money, communication, and your basic typical stuff most marriages face. We started growing apart and spending less and less time together. I became very depressed, and didn't really take care of it until this Januaury. After this, things were steadly getting better between us, until we had big blow up where I left the house, something she had wanted me to do for about a year, although I never really understood how far on the edge we were.

So I moved in with my mother, and she essentially went on with live without me and was rather happy. I, of course, was not in good shape at all, and I could not get her to really talk about things, or even say that she was willing towards reconcilliation or divorce. After about a month of this, we had another big blow up where we agreed to divorce while caught up in emotions. I immediately regreted it and she has held on to that.

However, since we reached this new stage, things have changed drastically. She went from being happy to being scared. She did not have a job and did not secure one until recently. Since she's a teacher, she won't actually start until the fall. She has had trouble sleeping and has said that she feels guilty about what this was doing to the kids. She has made an effort to include me more for the sake of the kids, and to be friends.

I was able to find some relief somehow, and was able to start working on what I needed to do. From the advice of my counselor, I purchased "winning your wife back before it's to late" and found that it fit my situation perfectly. I've been pretty good at being selfless and finding ways to demonstrate my love, although giving space and being patient is very difficult for me. I have been supportive of her in any way I can and told her how much I care and provided gifts her in every possible creative way I can think of.

So after 2 months of this, she has responded to my actions by telling me when things have meant a lot to her. She has never really turned me away to anything I've specifically done or said. So I've felt like I've made progress and shown her that I can be the husband that she needs me to be.

However, she is stubburn in wanting to carry out the divorce, and has held on to many hurts, even the ones that are years old. This weekend seemed to be especially telling. She had invited me to go to one of the many kid birthday parties and I happily went. She told me at this party that there was another birthday party immediately afterwards, and I asked her if she minded if I came, which she said no. The second party was rather ackward, and afterwards she told me that she didn't want me there, especially since her friends would see that I was being nice to her and would use that to tell her she was making the wrong decision. It turned into somewhat of a fight, though it was mostly her telling me all the things she doesn't like about me, followed by an email later repeating everything again. I was rather hurt by this, as I was really hoping that she was starting to turn the corner a bit and rethinking things.

Anyway, I normally respond in detail to things like this, but I waited till Sunday morning and simply thanked her for her email. She replied back "I'm sorry to hurt you. I really am." I didn't respond to that, and she sent another email on Monday afternoon asking a random question. I waited till Tuesday morning to answer, and got the immediate response "Okay. Are you angry with me? I'm sorry about the way that I said things to you. If I wasn't angry, I wouldn't have. I shouldn't have written you right then", followed by a phone call 5 minutes later asking the same question. I told her that I wasn't mad and replied to the email with "Really, I’m not angry. I’m really trying to respect your wishes and let you go, but I’m just not very good at it, so I probably just seem rather unemotional." Again, she immediately replied "I just feel bad and I don't want u to feel bad, but I guess we're going to. I'm sorry."

I pretty much know that I just need to leave her alone, but I am very scared. I'm afraid that I haven't shown her enough that she can believe that things could be different. But I supposse I've done all I can there. I don't know if she is subconciously having 2nd thoughts or just guilt. Maybe that doesn't matter now. Overall, I'm feeling pretty empty, and I'm scared that I will either get impatient and try and fix everything now, or will start looking for EN elsewhere. I try to tell myself that since she won't work till late August, there is plenty of time to wait. She may not even really be ready after that because of all the stress.

I don't know how to stop missing her. It's so tough having any kind of life right now as my family was my life, and I now have to live in a room at my mother's house. I've worked on things for sure, but it's so tough not to try and make contact with her, and find ways to keep myself occupied.

From reading other threads, it looks like I'm on plan B. Where can I find an article that defines these plans. Also, any advice is welcome, I've left out a ton of details and will fill those in as needed, but just wanted to get this out there.

-mel

mel,

I just wanted you to know you are not alone. This is a very hard road we are traveling. I will be praying for you.

Thanks Kathy.

Wow, Mel. It sounds like you handled that blow up and email really well. You can expect her to vent a laundry list occassionally as she moves from withdrawal to conflict before reaching that emotional connection again. This is actually a good sign, especially since you didn't just have a defensive knee-jerk reaction. Instead, you showed her you heard her.

Give it time. There are years of frustration and distrust to overcome for both of you. Drag your feet on the DV. She may come around yet.

And once she starts working.... She may really decide she wants to stay married. Working as a divorced mother of two is hard, as a mother of three it would be exhausting.

And no, don't rush into anything whether trying to "fix" the situation or date others. Now is a great "growth opportunity" for patience. All the tough times in my life, I've relabeled "growth opportunities." This helps me see the silver lining, and do the hard work rather than wallow constantly. Over the next several months, you will develop self-restraint and patience like you never imagined. This will be one of the hardest things you'll do, and it will be worth it whether you reclaim your marriage or end up divorced.

Thanks so much for the advice Greengables. I think you're right about things, but I fear that my wife is too far gone to ever turn back around. I need to be patient regardless(and I suck at that) and let her figure things out for herself. She says that she doesn't love me anymore and is deadset on divorce. She actually so a lawyer yesterday, so the wheels are in motion.

She was upset that the lawyer didn't give her good news about what she'd get from the divorce. I told her today that I was really worried about her future, not just the kids, and she told me she didn't near anything negative right now (regardless of how true it may be).

I think I really, really, really need to step back and leave her completely alone. There is nothing I can say or do anymore. That's so hard, becomes I'm very lonely. I miss her and don't know what to do with myself anymore. But you're right that this is a growing oppurtunity, and I do believe that I am capable of great change. There are things I can work on for sure.

I don't think she's as far gone as you think. Otherwise, she wouldn't have invited you to go to the party. Plus, think of the reason why she was uncomfortable with you at the second party: She didn't want her friends to tell her she shouldn't get divorced. In my case, I didn't want my ex to come to parties because my friends would get angry I was still with him.

Lonely is tough, but you know, it's good to know in your gut that you can survive being lonely. Do you have friends you can hang out with? What about joining a volunteer group or taking up a new hobby? I repainted my house one room at a time.

While I'd give her room, I'd also remind her of you. Send flowers every once in a while. Maybe don't sign your name. I just have a weird feeling she's going to see the changes you're making and come around.

I know what your saying, but that happened weeks ago. However, I do see signs that she cares. And one thing I've noticed is whenever she's done something that she knows hurt me, she immediately tries to make contact and smooth things over. She did that yesterday after she told me she saw a lawyer. I got several phone calls and few emails about things that didn't need to be discussed.

And I'm sorry to hear about your case.


I have friends that I can hang out with, but they are all pretty much married with little time. I'm trying to spread out my time and make new friends. Hobbies are somewhat difficult since I'm living at my mother's house (which totally sucks). I painted her living room a few weekends ago and put finish on a bookshelf this weekend. Thinking about buying some more unfinished furniture. I've also started scanning every picture I can find, and organizing them into folders. And I'm working on playlists as well. I workout whenever I can. I'm going to this series on raising your boys at the church. So yea, I got some hobbies, but it's not enough.

I probably should look into volunteering, thanks for the suggestion.


I thought that, and I spent a couple months doing that. She admitted that it was working to an extent and she felt good about what I was doing, but it wasn't going to change her mind. I haven't exactly stopped, but it's getting harder to do so.

She is convinced that not only will she be happy without me, but the kids will be better off this way as oppossed to growing up with parents that always fight. My parents always fought so I know how that goes. My Dad also had kids from a previous marriage and I know how that went as well. She doesn't believe we could possible reconcile and fix things, regardless of the fact that circumstances have changed drastically.

I've been hanging on to that same weird feeling your talking about, but it's getting harder and harder to keep up the faith. It's probably time to just put her aside and find a way to make myself whole again without her.

Hmm. Maybe it's time to make yourself whole again, but not time to give up on her. I'd still keep doing the stuff you've done that she admitted she liked. It can't hurt, and you want to prove to her you're in this for the long haul. The worst is when people make changes that are short lived. Short lived changes destroy trust.

Yea, I was thinking about that a lot last night. I know I am a better person then I used to be, and I've been doing it for myself, but I'm not there yet. I know the person that I was when we got married and I'm not that confident in myself yet, amoung other things.

Yesterday when we talked, which was kind of an arguement, I could tell that she was playing both sides of issues. She would tell me that I wasn't thinking of her as far as divorce settlement goes, but then when I told her all the things I was scared she would have to face on her own, she told me I was too negative. I'm starting to realize she's making me feel guilty all the time, and I can't let that happen.

As far as negative goes, it's ironic, because she's the one who's quitting, not me. We she calls as positive is really just ignoring reality. She tells me she's happy now, and yet she also tells me how stressed out and worried she is. Like me, she's on depression meds.

I think I've been trying to soften the blow for her too much, and she really needs to deal with the full brunt of what she wants to do. I agree, that she needs to know that I still care and I'm still here, but not try and protect her from all the things that come with divorce.

update: she just emailed me and said she wants to meet for lunch "because the kids want to see me". I am so tempted to say no.

Maybe, but don't! Be there for her each and every time, no matter how nasty she gets. Let her work out her conflicts on her own - you continue to be the good guy, the one she'll want to come back to. The high road. And consistently. That's what women want, I think.

yea, I told her yes, but I'm not going to make sure I don't do something stupid like I'm prone to do. By that I mean say something that makes me look desparate. There's a good way and a bad way to tell someone you think they're beautiful. We always get along great when the kids are there and don't talk about us really.

btw, I just got a lawyer. I don't want to, but since she has one I kind of have to. I still want to drag it out a bit though.

A good lawyer will help you drag it out.

I agree you should say yes to invites, but only if you don't already have plans. It does not hurt for your spouse to know you actually have a life. It makes you interesting and appealing.

How old are your kids, Mel?

Yea, things will drag out as well since my wife tends to procrastinate on things. It took her over a week to get the mobile phone transferred under her name, even with my help. When she starts teaching again in the fall, she's going to have almost no freetime and will be moving very slowly I'm sure.

As it turns out, I didn't respond to her quick enough and she was no longer near my office at 10:45 AM when I responded to her email.

My kids are 7-boy (technically not mine and already under child support from his biological father, 4-boy, and 2-girl. The 7 year is used to being shuffled around a bit and is quite, but wants us to get back together. My 4 year is taking it the worst and is extremely clingy when I get to be with him.

And yes, having a life is a problem right now. I do have friends I can do stuff with, but they are either married and busy, or coworkers who just want to go to happy hour all the time. I was kinda foolish during marriage as I let friends drift away.

Hey, me too. And, I don't make friends easily. I'm trying to work on that so I don't die a lonely old lady.

Actually you do have a life. It's just got an empty space right now. But, soon you'll have that filled with other stuff, like committees or a garden or a dog or heaven knows what will creep in.

When I started dating I had really mixed feelings because I didn't have any time. I'd have to give up some activities to fit in dates. Yoga class went by the wayside, as did obedience training and dreams of agility training for my dog. And, I haven't been able to hang out with Newly in about 2 years. She's an MB person I've met in real life. Oh, and it cut down my posting here for a long while.

At least your wife called to ask. That shows she doesn't hate your guts. I would go to extremes to avoid sitting down for a meal with my ex, and he would do the same.

Do you have a plan for the oldest son in case worse comes to worst? I'm assuming you'll want visitation with him just as with your other two. I'm really glad you have a lawyer to help you with that.

My only legal tie to him was by marriage. I can't see how I can get visitation rights since he already has a father who pays child support and has visitation rights. However, my wife (I need to learn these acronyms) has assured me that she will never prevent me from seeing him. I've been the main male figure in his life, and it would be cruel for me to drop out now, especially when his brother and sister get to see me.

However, since his Dad has weekends and I have weekends, the sometimes coincide and then I only get the 2 little ones. But the there are also times where he is with either of his two Dads, and Mommy may not get a weekend with him for several weekends in a row.

As far as sitting down together, it is very strange. The last time we had dinner together, was for my daughters birthday, about 2 weeks ago. The kids played in a sandbox almost all the time and we just talked to each other.

My mother said something last night that I think was right on. She wondered if either of us really ever trusted each other with how we felt and would tell something honestly that may expose us to potential hurt. And it's odd because there was one thing that my wife used to do that bothered me, and she never would stop. I realized that instead of telling her that I was hurt by what she did, I tried to say that it was morally wrong...which just made her feel like I didn't think much of her. A few nights ago I told her that what was happening hurt me...and then she stopped it. I was so surprised, and I don't even know how to say thank you for that.

Like you said earlier, I have a lot of learning and growing to do. I know I've changed a lot already.

As for her, she simply internalizes things and starts to build up a wall, instead of talking it out with me. It's sad maybe, the other night we got in a little arguement about lawyers and looking out for each others intrests and it got to the point where she started breaking down and expressing things she had never told me before. She said that I had told her at one point that "I don't love you" and "I don't like". She couldn't tell me when I said that, and I can't recall it or even picture a situation where I would say that. I truly believe she internalized that fear for so long (and I reinforced it unfortunately) that it became such a reality in her mind that actually believes I said it.

ok, I'm rambling now, but it feels good to talk. I am starting to consider maybe working a deal with her. Unfortunately for her, she has very bad credit, and hasn't even worked for the past 2 years. The home loan is under my name because we couldn't include her name and get a loan. When it was time to buy her a new car, again it had to be under my name and not hers. She's going to have to buy our house from me and her car as well, and I can't see how she can do that alone. Her parents are well off and maybe able to use there credit, but I don't know. As well, starting a new job, while going through a divorce, figuring out where you're going to live, and raising 3 kids is more then anyone can handle, no matter how confident and positive you can be. So anyway, I'm considering saying that we should continue living together in the house for another year. She can save up all the money from her job as a downpayment...maybe just buy the car for now to buildup credit. Then she can get a divorce. That gives me a year to show her that things are different and she doesn't have to do this. I know she'll not want to do this, but she may not have much choice. She'll have her guard up, but she could soften up a lot and rethink things. I can tell her that we should get along if we don't talk about us because that's what we do ok right now.

She's really needs to see how bad this is going to be for her before I mention that though.

An excellent plan!

It occurred to me last night that if she call to have lunch with me 'for the sake of the kids', I could do the same thing. So I called and left a message last night to let her know I was only working a half day today so I could make lunch. She didn't respond until this morning by email to ask when and where, so I called her back to work out the details.

Again rambling, but I'm getting tired of email communications, and even phone conversations to an extent. It's too safe, face to face convsersations make everything more real, more honest, and overall better.

Melvin, you aren't looking at it from your wife's perspective. She likes phone and email because it's safe. Safe is good.

Make sure the face to face contact is as benign as the phone calls. Benign has gotten a bad rap as "boring." It's not. It's safe.

I see what your saying. However, it bothers me that we have only sat down face to face and talked about us once in the past 4 months.

I've heard before, and it makes sense that communication is more then just words, it's tone and body movement as well. When you talk on the phone, the listener assumes body momvements to be more what they want to hear. In a letter email, the listener assumes tone and body movement. So given that she wants justification for divorce, I fear she takes the worst interpretation.

I don't know, I guess it helps to say little positive things on the phone or in person to help build up the trust.