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Ignore any future calls from either one of them. Let them bask in the misery they have created for each other. Reminds me of Dante's second circle. HUH...what the heck??? Explain please. And, YES, it did feel rather good to take a few shots...and I'll admit, he really didn't refute anything I said. I'm thinking he's growing tired of dealing with all of the drama that comes along with this A. Just wait if he moves to this area...then, he'll REALLY have to deal with things MUCH more up close. I'm thinking that's when the A will see its demise; even though, I'm sure at first they'll grow even closer to each other. WW is very manipulative, I've always known it, but just played along to make her heppy. No doubt, she manipulated him into calling me to try and "rescue" her from this mess. Once, when another woman accused her of seeing her husband (another "chaplain" with the same company), she even convinced me to go and talk to her face to face to defend her reputation. A lot of good that did, now she's thrown away that reputation all on her own! What I mean is that, if your WW is using the OM to try and manipulate you, don't answer his calls. Let him go back to your WW unsuccessful in contacting you. Make him the ineffective POS that he really is!
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Let me answer a few concerns. First...I have not spoken with this other lady again at all. I have decided to follow the same rules for now as if WW were still here. My rule was always to NEVER allow myself to be alone with another woman, even on the phone. I also have always refused to discuss another woman's husband/marriage with her unless her husband was present. Even on business, I have refused to do "dinner/lunch" alone with a person of the opposite sex unless with a group. I AM following these same ruels today. I quickly realized, after 2 phone conversations, that this lady may quickly develop a deeper interest...we do have MUCH in common!
AS to the "pattern," yes there were implications in the fall of '06. I'm almost certain I have shared this info. previously. I even recall someone once saying that my WW was now a "3-time cheater(there was a full blown affair during our first year of marriage...which I know I did reveal)." I'm now thinking that the other "chaplain" was more than just an inappropriate friendship or EA. I now believe that he simply drew a line where this current "chaplain (OM)" has not. I realize this makes me look foolish for not pursuing the details of that event then, but I truly am a VERY trusting person, definitely too much so!
Plan B is now completely dark. Again, I didn't mean to speak to him, but once on the line, I HAD to hear what he was saying. He did start things by apologizing (NOT sincerely), so I thought something good was about to come of the conversation.
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ABW3, I am relieved to hear you are not communicating with the female friends.
Wow, I also don't remember ever hearing about an affair, 14 years ago, in the first year of your marriage. That is very concerning! The honeymoon phase is not typically affair time. I do remember seeing where she left you 10 years ago. Was that also affair related? Then another accusation in 2006?! This is a disturbing trend, if I'm reading correctly.
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I even recall someone once saying that my WW was now a "3-time cheater(there was a full blown affair during our first year of marriage...which I know I did reveal)." Ouch - during the first year of your M? I dunno - that would have been a definite dealbreaker for me. How did you manage to recover your trust in your WW after she broke her "for a lifetime" vows to you in less than a year?
ManInMotion =========== (see "MiM's Story" for more details)
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Let me answer a few concerns. First...I have not spoken with this other lady again at all. I have decided to follow the same rules for now as if WW were still here. My rule was always to NEVER allow myself to be alone with another woman, even on the phone. I also have always refused to discuss another woman's husband/marriage with her unless her husband was present. Even on business, I have refused to do "dinner/lunch" alone with a person of the opposite sex unless with a group. I AM following these same ruels today. I quickly realized, after 2 phone conversations, that this lady may quickly develop a deeper interest...we do have MUCH in common! I can respect this. I was exactly the same way when I was married. The only exceptions were when I was at war and my aircraft commander was a woman. Kind of had to hang out with her, but it was professional. She became a mentor and someone I turned to for advice. We're still in contact.
D-Day 28 Feb 06 Plan D (Not by choice) - 24 March 06 DD6 DS4(Twin1) DS4(Twin2)
She moved away with the kids April 08. I contested it and got a lot more time with my kids. She's unhappy that I want to stay involved in their lives and don't settle for being an "every other weekend" dad.
Never going to happen.
Ongoing personal recovery through the help of friends, family, and DC United Soccer!
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Actually, I mis-spoke, this WAS the affair I had spoken of before. 10 years was just an estimate. I suppose, looking closer, that it was about 11-12 years ago, my son was just a baby.
Actually, WW and I lost our first child (daughter) after approx. 1 year of marriage, then almost immediatly, she got pregnant w/ our son, and he was still in the crib during her first A. Of course, she accused my constant drinking (haven't touched a DROP since the first A) on her unhappiness.
Then, everything seemed fine until the fall of '06. I moved past the first A by unconditionally forgiving her (for the sake of my son) and NEVER bringing it up again. Not even during the most heated argument...I NEVER mentioned it!
I then excused the events of 1 1/2 years ago as just an inappropriate "friendship," though I now see that it could easily have been much more.
Why do I STILL hope for R, you ask? Because I have tried to remember those "in between" 10 or so years where everything seemed perfectly normal. We had our daughter, built a home, became foster parents (which gave us the current baby), took numerous trips and vacations, and just generally led the life most only dream of.
We are (were) held in high regard in our community and church. Simply, God blessed us and used us beyond anything we ever could have imagined. How can this not be God's will after he blessed it so much? How can any spiritual person just walk away from all that they have ever known or wanted without feeling conviction?
I know I'm a little crazy for wishing for "US" back, but I do at some point hope that is the case. Funny, today my son made this comment,"I don't want S(insert WW's name) back, I want momma back!" I couldn't agree more. We don't know the person she has now become...the fog is too thick...though I do think it may be starting to lift!
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We all want our spouses back. They often never return. They've been permanently replaced by the alien possessing them.
Sometimes they come back when it's too late.
I understand your son's feeling. I remember a good home and family when my mom and dad were together and don't remember a lot of bad things. I remember the heart of my parent's marriage, which was good for many, many years.
Then middle age hit.
Same goes with my exww. I left for the war and never saw my wife again. She was replaced by the waywared and I haven't seen my wife since. Don't expect I ever will see the person I married.
That's why it's important that YOU stay a rock and a steady presence for them. Let them turn to you for stability while she goes and runs around like a dog in heat.
Sad they can't see what they're doing to their kids.
Last edited by pomdbd3; 06/12/08 09:07 AM. Reason: Pandas
D-Day 28 Feb 06 Plan D (Not by choice) - 24 March 06 DD6 DS4(Twin1) DS4(Twin2)
She moved away with the kids April 08. I contested it and got a lot more time with my kids. She's unhappy that I want to stay involved in their lives and don't settle for being an "every other weekend" dad.
Never going to happen.
Ongoing personal recovery through the help of friends, family, and DC United Soccer!
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He explained a long time ago about her infidelities (plural). That's why we were trying to get him to move on.
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Abandoned, if your wife comes home, the agency will not give you the baby. The child will be immediatly taken away.
Even that agency knows what a cheating lying nightmare your wife is, I hope you do not let her back into your life.
On top of it, she feels she is actually RELIGIOUS in her cheating behavior. That is the height of insanity. And cruelty to you and "her" kids.
I dont think she is going to change if she felt cheating was OK from the first year you were married. Is she mentally unstable or something? why all that cheating? Have you ever figured out why she needs to and wants to cheat? What does she get out of it anyway?
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Okay, batton down the hatches...this is gonna be a long one.
Once NC is established (REALLY established)...then what. Here's why I asked. I admit, my Plan B kind of reverted back to Plan A last night, but I think that I got the desired result just the same.
Around 11 last night, WW called ALL of our phones and left hysterical messages, sobbing uncontrollably. Finally, after hearing the words, " I just want to die, I wish God would just end my suffering," I decided we'd ALL had enough. I did (be gentle) return her call and reach out to her.
I ended up going to her new place to talk to her. I learned that the way the children have treated her is literally killing her. She passed out 4-5 times and vomitted 5-6 times within the span of about 2 hours. I really should have called 911, but I was afraid she would be commited to the psychiatric ward and I would be accused of calling just to make her look bad in court(I know, that sounds odd now, but it made since at 1am).
Once, when she passed out, I took HER cell phone and called OM from it. I informed him that this had gone on long enough. I told him that, if I ever found out there was any further contact between them, I would drive to where he was and "handle it!"
She heard the end of the conversation and told me that she had already told him earlier they could not continue in their sin. However, she is still only willing to discuss her relationship with the kids...not really me!
I left around 3am and immediately called OM again from the car. I decided to approach things with him from the "Christian" perspective. I told him that, if he was AT ALL spiritual, understood ANYTHING about the Bible, and TRULY cared for WW, he COULD NOT continue to encourage her sin and deception and would HAVE to excuse himself from the equation. The mess they have made is obviously destroying her emotionally, physically, and spiritually. I explained that my children and I have prayed FOR HIM every night, in hopes that he would realize that he was only using my WW to fill the void of loneliness his ex had left.
He tearfully admitted that he knew he was wrong to let things go this far. He agreed to calling her today to inform her that he would no longer be calling her or accepting any of her calls. At this point, I had to take his word, but only because I could sense true remorse over the phone. I did reiterate (in Christian love) that I was serious about handling this if I found out his word was worthless. I assured him that I had only begun to expose this A and would ruin him him he was deceitful. Of course, once WW wakes up from the fog, I would have to take more certain steps to insure NC, but I had to deal with what I was given last night.
This morning, I texted WW just asking if she was okay. I got NO sleep last night and am sincerely worried about her. She responded,"I will be much better soon. Have a great Father's Day weekend with your kids. You're all they need!" To me, this sounded suicidal. I have now texted her over 20 times today, with varying responses.
Remember, we have both been VERY spiritual people (until she lost it 6 weeks ago), I know that she is feeling convicted for the sin she has commited. I have offered to help her in any way possible, possibly even psychiatrically.
I know that I have gone beyond my worldly and Biblical obligation in this M. I know that I am justified to just walk away if I see fit. But, I do STILL love her and her children are literally dieing over this. They have become kids I sometimes don't even recognize. We all need her back here, where she belongs. What else can I do???
Does Plan B ever revert back to Plan A; or, what's the next step now. I know that the pledge of NC I received was possibly hollow, but I am hoping and praying for the best. HELP!
BTW, I know that WW could not possibly return to our home until after the adoption. But, I think this might be a good thing and give us time to work on things without actually living together again immediately. Thoughts???
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WOW, she is indeed the best manipulator on this planet. Her relationship with the OM is blowing up. Her kids are dislikeing her. So now what choices does she have? She has to get in good with her family again. Her fun is ended.
I want to take lessons from her on how to have an affair and all that fun and then and manipulate your way back into the family. Goooood lucK! If you take her back you cannot adopt. She is very unstable. It will be a choice between the new baby and the unstable manipulative wife who does not love you.
Others will help more I just dislike her for her extreemely good manipulations. She really has you wrapped. She knows just how to do it.
Since she had three affairs that you know of, if you are weak enough to think about taking her back you need to put protections in place.
1. A tracking system on her and her car 2. A post nup agreement giving you most of the money in case of divorce 3. Some kind of written custody agreement in case it happens again 4. A signed statement from her that she had sex with the other man and an affair. 5. Other legal precautions 6. Many other protections that these folks on MB can tell you about.
If she will not go for the above, then you would not be smart to take her back at all. Let her throw up and pass out. I dont believe it. She is a manipulative drama queen. A best actress award should be given to her! Wow, all the waywards should take lessons from her.
Last edited by Stellakat; 06/12/08 11:07 AM.
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Wow, it sounds as if she is really breaking. This is good. It reminds me of when my husband finally "broke" earnestly. He was a broken man and THAT's when God really began the work in his life. Until he reached that point, there was nothing to be done.
You're a blessed husband for reaching out in love to your wife after all she's done. Hopefully, this is the beginning of the end of your nightmare.
I'm praying... and I know others are too.
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage ********************* “In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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I am praying you refuse to take her back. But I am praying that if you do take her back, it sounds like you are going to, that you first put many many protective things, legal and otherwise, in your marital agreement. You have to. She already had three affairs that you know of. Nothing stops her from having a 4th affair and then manipulating you again to get back in.
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If she will not go for the above, then you would not be smart to take her back at all. Let her throw up and pass out. I dont believe it. She is a manipulative drama queen. A best actress award should be given to her! Wow, all the waywards should take lessons from her. Stella, were you there?!?! How do you know? I think AO3K knows his wife better than you do. I see this as Plan B being very effective in this case. I agree with you though that there's a lot to be done if they do recover and safeguards need to be in place. But chill girl, this is his life, not yours. You act as though you have a personal stake in the outcome. Sheesh.
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage ********************* “In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Yes, I almost feel like i was there! Sorry my sister used to throw those hysterics to get her way again and again and again.
I agree that he must put many many protections in place now. Or, just take her back and then put up with her manipulative personality and her little affairs every couple of years.
He could have an "open marriage" where affairs are allowed.
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Stella, I knew you would blast me. Believe me, I wish that I didn't care anymore. I wish that I could just walk away into the depths of Plan B..and possibly later D. I thought I was doing a pretty good job of it, until I heard that pitiful voice crying out for help.
Perhaps she is a dram-queen, perhaps she is being (once again) manipulative. Time will tell. It's not like she's here with me now.
There would be MANY steps to any possible R, I just know that she, in her heart, does want to at least take the first one.
Still now, she is refusing to do so. I will NOT beg. I have stated my emotions and feelings and have left the ball in her court. She knows the road back home will be a long and hard one, but the way back to God is just one simple step. At least then, her children might grow to respect her again.
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"Still now, she is refusing to do so. I will NOT beg."
Yes, she wants to have YOU CHASING HER. Until she gets that dynamic going again, she is going to play you. Once you bend to her level the way she wants it then she has you fully under her thumb again.
Why not give her an "affair allowance". Tell her she can have one affair lasting three months every two years. If she cant quit having affairs, at least limit them!
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You are caving and undoing all the work you put into a well thought out plan.
It took extreme hysterics from you WW, but she proved that she can get to you. Wait until next time, who knows what extremes she might go to to get your attention.
Crying and carrying on because of her ruined relationship with her children? Those are the consequences.
What are you doing talking to OM? Issuing threats with "christian love"? Get real. This guy has no more integrity and honor than your WW, might as well have a discussion with your dog.
You told your WW what it would take to have a relationship with you. Your kids are showing her what it will take to have a relationship with them. The right thing for her to do is NOT difficult. It is obvious, it is simple. You are not asking her to do something extraordinary. In fact, what you want her to do is in HER best interests, your children's best interests, and your best interests, right? Who are you to interfere with the process of her coming to terms with the reality of her decisions?
You "saving the day" was imo a horrible setback in a situation that was progressing. If you DON'T MEAN IT when you say you are in Plan B, then do NOT go into Plan B.
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I ended up going to her new place to talk to her. I learned that the way the children have treated her is literally killing her. She passed out 4-5 times and vomitted 5-6 times within the span of about 2 hours. I really should have called 911, but I was afraid she would be commited to the psychiatric ward and I would be accused of calling just to make her look bad in court(I know, that sounds odd now, but it made since at 1am). If she had a heart attack, would you have NOT taken her to the hospital because it might possibly have made your motives appear suspicious to outsiders? My point is, an emergency is an emergency - be it cardiac arrest or a mental break-down. I think you did not do a good job here. on the other hand ...... Once, when she passed out, I took HER cell phone and called OM from it. I informed him that this had gone on long enough. I told him that, if I ever found out there was any further contact between them, I would drive to where he was and "handle it!" I think this comment was just fine ... as long as he was not recording this conversation. HOWEVER, you allowed your WW to listen in , she might use this "threat" against you in court. He tearfully admitted that he knew he was wrong to let things go this far. He agreed to calling her today to inform her that he would no longer be calling her or accepting any of her calls. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh - this is is the old "closure" routine. Have you read any of the "wayward closure" threads on MB? Many a time these "good-bye" calls progress to "good-bye letters" which progress to "good-bye meeting" which progress to "good-bye kissing" which progress to "good-bye roll in the hay" .... which bonds them closer. For future reference - do NOT encourage any "closure" activities or discussions that are done privately between adultery partners and outside the eyes & ears of the betrayed spouse. This closure BONDS them. We've see this happen over and over. Pep
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ab...wow. I'm sorry, but that was dumb. All of it. She played you like a fiddle. Please step back now and resume NC and Plan B. You've just taught her a very destructive lesson, and you can rest assured that if you get back together, you can start expecting these little episodes with increasing frequency, every time she doesn't get what she wants. OMG. I thought you might benefit from re-reading some of what you wrote in your first 10 pages: I have treated her like a princess. She does nothing around our house, she allows me to handle most of the parenting chores, she literally just had her job during the day, and a loving home at night. I constantly tell her how much I love her and how proud I am of her and her calling as a hospice nurse. She has left before (10 yrs ago), so I am guarded as to breaking this cycle that seems to be developing. I'm not sure I want her back, although I know our children need her. She just called me moments ago to tell me what scum I was and that I had destroyed the lives of a "good man" and his 10 year old daughter. Is it normal that my wife would change her story about the OM on a daily basis. It almost feels like she is backing away from her devotion to him, but she isn't yet willing to put any efforts into me. At first, he was just someone she had confided in. Later, he became the man she had met at a hotel 2 hours away. The next day, she attempts to dagger me in the back by telling me how they made mad passionate love, and telling me she is in love with him and has never felt this way about any other man. On Sunday, he returned to just being a friend again. Yesterday, she tells me that they weren't physical at all, as she was on her cycle and today he is a "good man" who doesn't deserve this, he was only a close companion. What the .#$!@#$? I'm getting dizzy here. Okay, I gave in and called her...too soon! I was told that I had cost her her job and that if I did have any hopes of reconciliation, they are now gone. She said she didn't care if I died today. I shouldn't have called, but I couldn't stand it!
She has a very angry side to her and I have always bore the brunt of most of it. One update, she did call to ask to come over and see the kids tonight. When I informed her that some of our mutual friends from church were coming over and that the baby was spending the night elsewhere, she went nuts. She cursed at me and told me that she hoped I would wreck my car and die! She called back later to apologize. she reiterated that she would NEVER live with me again! She now says that she just sees potential for a relationship with OM and that they haven't been intimate. She has always said that she couldn't live alone, even saying she would remarry quickly if I died. She can't see how his presence in this is only providing her comfort to leave. She says they pray for me every night, 1 1/2 years ago, W tried to leave. She had an inappropriate friendship with another of her company's chaplains. So inappropriate in fact, that his wife called me accusing my wife of a PA. I believe that it never got that far, but now think that W was just searching for another man to comfort her when she did this. Remember, she always said she could never be alone!
Many times I have wanted out myself, but would NEVER have considered it because of our children. No one in my family has ever been divorced. I will be seen as the first to graduate college, then the first to divorce. All of my wife's relatives have been married at least 2-3 times!
I DO still want her back, but I don't think she has the self inspection skills necessary to see that we both have made HUGE mistakes in our life together. If she is ever willing to evaluate things honestly, I will gladly take her back and enjoy what a marriage should REALLY be like! But I will not go back to life as it was...if I did, it would only be until the next OM came along, then she would leave again! I suppose I never mentioned the two previous A's because I had forgiven her and moved on. I have never ONCE mentioned her indescretions to her, even in the most heated of arguments! I am one who believes that, if you forgive unconditionally, you forget as well. Though I know that I never really forgot the other events, I never allowed her to know that they did still bother me at times. Again, I thought things were fine! I assure you, I never ignored my W, if anything, she ignored me! I am not willing to take W back without intensive counseling I AM accepting my role in our M's demise, but I can't fix the obvious problems I see while she is not willing to try. A professional counselor would have done us a world of good 10+ years ago, one still could, but I can't MAKE her do this of she is not willing. Besides, NONE OF THIS excuses 3 affairs! I CAN and DO except the things that should've been different, but I CANNOT accept her third A in 14 years or believe that anything I have done justifies them. Yes, I DO still love her and would take her back TODAY under the right circumstances (agreement to counseling, true remorse for her actions, etc.), but I will not be convinced that I should feel guilty in any way about the life we had together I do know that her mother has suggested therapy to her, she only insists that nothing is wrong with her, only me(though she can't offer any specifics). Until when or if the day comes that she is willing to examine herself, R is not in either of our (or our children's) best interest. I am just praying that she will, at some point, look in the mirror and wonder what SHE could've done differently.
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