Carnation..

Forgive me for being hypocritical here...but loving someone probably isn't the hard part. It's having them compliment you (not in a verbal way) that matters to our well-being, doesn't it?

The little dog! Tell us about the little dog! I think many lives have been saved by a dog. I know a rather gross, little, white bulldog that came along at the very moment that I needed her most.

Eibrab

Carnation,

Self doubts??? Who among us does not have these to one extent or another? Yes I still question just about every big decision I make to this day. Part of our confidence and self assuredness has been taken away and will never come back to the same level. At least that's how I feel about myself.

What I do know is I have a very low tolerance for a lack of integrity in other people now. I keep my old friends who I know and trust close and anyone new has to prove themselves to me before they can get into my circle of friends. As for a romantic relationship this is even more important to me. The smallest and slightest sign of a weakness in character sends me running. Been there and done that and don't want to go thru it again. Call it "baggage", a sore spot, or whatever you want. I just know it's there for me.

Sounds like you have the same kind of thing going here in your own life. You have boundaries that although they are not as stringent as mine they are still boundaries you will enforce. I think you are doing the appropriate things for yourself right now and it's okay to do this! The doubts will always be there but trust yourself to do what you know you need to do. You have a kind and giving heart that will lead you in the right direction every time if you let it.

duk

Duk..

I could have typed your post virtually word for word.

I, too, find myself very critical of another's integrity. Isn't that horrid of me, as I live with someone who doesn't exhibit an ounce of it?

*Chuckle*

Eibrab

It certainly is a case of self doubts.... or maybe just sad that we could not make it work.... ha ha.... work being the main problem !!!

There def is a sense of peace here in this house and in my own inner house... this I relish.... finally.... scary, not really - just kinda sad that it had to end like this....

Oh well - what happened, happened....

On a lighter note... duk, are you familiar with Flagstaff at all ?? My son is moving back to Phx, the fire dept which he is on leave from... and is talking about buying a second home in Flagstaff which could be my residence if I so choose...

I realize that I can't rush into any thing else. I need to get my bearings and just take my time through this separation/divorce. Hopefully the opportunity with him will still be there if and when I am ready...Just wanted to know if you have any info on Flagstaff or the surrounding areas.

Oh Eibrab - my little Sandy is only the bestest dog ever !!! My sil rescued her from beside a very busy street in a pretty big city here... she was skinny and unkept... but just the cutest, sweetest thing.... very very loving and obedient... half chihuahua - half rat terrier or dauchsand.... too cute.... she weighed 6 pounds when I got her and weighs almost 10 now..... but I must level off her weight.... no more gaining for her.... she isn't heavy yet but on the verge of it... I love her to death !!!!

Thanks so much for the replies..... I feel pretty confident and strong --- until I speak with him.... then I feel bad and unsure... I know -- don't speak with him... duh.... I am just not ready to totally shut that door yet.... ya know ???

So -- as Tina Turner so famously said ---

What's love got to do with it ????? right ????? help on this one please

Hi Everyone,

Wow, I had some catching up to do. It took me a while to read and reread your posts, precisely two cups of coffee.

Despite the sad tidings, it is truly lovely to hear your voices in conversation again. It put a huge smile on my face, that, and the mental image I have of Duk walking his daughter down the aisle - self composed and every inch the proud and caring Dad. I have to keep blinking to keep my eyes from misting up!

Duk, when you dance the father and daughter dance under that big Mexican moon - with your grown up little girl who was so wise in the power of redeeming love - feel the magic. Feel the blessing. I have to stop now or I really will start blubbering.

Carnation, I am proud of you. Finding peace is important and knowing you deserve it even more so.

If you feel in a true state of peace without him - then I think you have your answer - separation is the right choice. It does not necessarily mean you have to rush into finalizing a divorce. Maybe just take it one day at a time. I suspect you will find that when you do come to a final decision you will be comfortable and know it to be the right one.

Flagstaff is a beautiful town! Sometimes life just has a flow to it. When you are ready – your options will be there.

I hope you follow Duk's advice. The emotional roller-coaster that comes with marital breakdown can be exhausting. You need to find ways to recoup and recover. Happily perhaps the best answer is wagging her tail at your right now! Amazing how one small bundle of fur can brighten a room and your heart. I often wonder who rescues who.

I also hope that your husband for his own sake gets help with his addiction.



Eibrab!

Sigh, I am bereft of speech when I read your posts.

I hope Duk will forward a copy of your DD’s letter. I would very much like to read it. (Duk can you post your email address again? I went back through the thread looking for it but it is a very long one.)

There is a great book out by Eckhart Tolle called “A New Earth” You may have already read it. If not, I think it might help you deal with your current situation. The main premise is living in the present moment but it provides many useful insights to daily living – especially in challenging circumstances.

I think your husband is deeply unconscious. You have to choose to accept him just as he is - knowing he will go on making life challenging - or to let him go.

I am "gobsmacked" by how he is behaving.

What advantage does shared parenting of this child offer to anyone? Is it good for the child? Is it good for your children? Is it good for the MOW’s marriage? Is it good for your marriage? Am I missing something? As I understand it – he negotiated obtaining shared parenting of this child by promising to dissolve his marriage, evict his current wife (but keep his kids)? He has lied and deceived both the women who he would have to work in partnership to further the child's best interests. It is a non-starter.

Perhaps he is simply acting out – wanting control – regardless of whether or not it is the right thing to do or offers any real benefit to anyone else. It is just very difficult to understand the ratonale for it when so clearly these actions seem to add up to being a lousy parent and a total disaster as a husband.

Can you accept this situation? Will you be able to enjoy spending your time raising this child? Can you be enthusiastic about it? You have to be able to come up with at least one yes to at least one those three questions. Or you are going to be continually stressed.

Families do overcome these kinds of situations when there is complete honesty, commitment and the miracle of love but none of those elements can share space with deceit.

I am editing this after posting this early this morning. I find your situation just hands down one of the most difficult I can imagine and my first instinct is to shut it down. But you are also an extraordinary woman, Eibrab, perhaps if anyone can find grace in this - it will be you.

Galoot,

I am glad you were able to find the resources to navigate your way out of the morass your wife’s actions created. It shows genuine foresight and profound patience. I hope you both find joy in rediscovering each other anew. Thank you for your comment.

Hi PB !!! How marvelous to read your writings once again.... Your calming ways touch so many.

Yes, I do feel peace here by myself. And, you are correct, as much as I may be second-guessing my decision - if only I can stay focused on this roller coaster, the answer will be right there, as it probably has been ... all along.

Thanks for the book information you passed along... I have been looking for something a tad bit more rewarding than my current non-fiction material.

((( Eibrab ))) Please chime in as often as you feel comfortable in doing so.... Your situation tugs at my heart strings too... Not sure if this is appropriate advice - but please

don't just settle...


We on this thread -- love you.


carnation

Hola Amigo's

I am back physically but I left way too many brain cells in Ol' Mexico. We had a wonderful time and everyone got along! The EX wanted to pretend all was good and put on a show but I suggested (after a light and well meant 10 minute discussion that had everyone holding their breath) just keeping it polite and respectful from a distance and it worked out perfectly.

The best part of this compromise was it worked for the kids. Even at 26 and 24 they had a real hard time with the EX and I being in the same place with them again at the same time. You could see both kids do the same thing. If they were with me and the EX walked up both kids backed away and quit talking. Neither one of them knew how to act or what to expect. I asked both of them about it and both told me the same thing, "it just feels weird". After that the EX and I kept our distance and everything went perfectly. Well I should say on our side it went perfectly. The groom's parents who are divorced (no A) did manage to get into it at the reception and the groom's mother disappeared after that never to be seen again. She missed most of the reception and did not even say good-bye to her son and went home the next morning without telling anyone. Needless to say her son was pretty upset with that move.

I have to get back after it here at work so I will chime in with more later. Thanks for the thoughts from all of you! My best friend Butch said watching me walk her down the beach to the ceremony brought him to tears so I must have looked the part PB. I know it is something I will never forget!

duk

Good afternoon everyone,

PB, I started reading at the beginning of this thread early today, and have jotted down many quotes, thank you for your wisdom. I stopped at page 13 and jumped to 115 because I was running out of time and wanted to see if you were still here. I will go back and catch up on the current state of afairs.

I started at your beginning because that is my now. I told him to leave yesterday after finding graphic images on his email. This is by no means the first issue. I don't have time to go into it all right now but will catch you up if you like.

I just wanted you all to know, PB particularily, how grateful I am that you have shared so much so well.

Please pray.

Hello Everyone:

Hola Duk!

So happy it went well. I was sure it was going to be a great experience for your whole family. It made me smile to hear how your friends were getting teary eyed -some moments are just intensely wonderful and that had to be one of them!

Hiya Carnation:

I think you will like the Tolle book, he has a good grasp of how to understand how important the present moment is. It is a good read. Although I found I had to read it slowly to fully digest what he was saying .

I am hoping you find each day a little easier. I know at first it is tough. Whether or not you are the one who makes the decision to end a relationship there is still years of attachment to let go of. It will take time. Time heals all.


Dear Eibrab,

I found myself thinking about your situation again again over the last several days. I think the most accurate thing I can offer is that sometimes it truly is impossible to understand what someone else is thinking, needing, feeling. Your husband is going through his own process for sure. In a positive light, it is telling that he was so determined that you meet his son. He is looking for your acceptance.

It just would have been so much better if he could talk out the whole situation with you and offer some understanding of how it makes you feel.

Sending you a big hug.



Dear a_hopeful-one,

I am truly sorry you find yourself here, but this site is a wonderful resource to use to deal with your current challenge. There are many here who are wise and have successfully skirted the disaster of marital breakdown by using the strategies offered here.

They work!

I will remember you and your husband in my prayers.

Hey PB!

I need to get you a copy of the Mother's Day letter Eibrab's daughter wrote still. You can e-mail me at **edit** and I will get it to you.

Still recovering from all the fun in Mexico and catching up here at work too. I have some photo's of the wedding if you are interested.

Talk more soon!

duk

Duk, PB, Carnation and all!

I hope this finds you all in a peaceful frame of mind. I have you, Carnation, in special prayer as I know this is a very "thoughtful" time for you. I hope your little dog is doing her job in keeping you in good spirits.

And ummm, Duk... you have my email address for those pictures, too! I am so tickled that the wedding came off in grand fashion. Do you find yourself thinking ahead to the thought of being a grandpa? I think that will be a great time in my life... I just hope and pray that isn't for a long time .

PB, again, your words mean so much. I cannot argue with anything you have said, nor would I want to. I live the most amazing of lives, don't I? It is so odd, that a woman of so many words just can't say many anymore. I just find this overwhelming desire to keep my mouth shut and watch.

I did consult an attorney, btw, and file a complaint for the incident involving the sheriff's dept.. I will not be stepped on or made to look like a fool, when I've worked so hard to maintain grace and dignity. I have a sneaking suspicision that this complaint stems from MOW's displeasure at her child being around me. She can't find anything to use against me at this point, so she has resorted to stupidity. I will prevail.

The child was here quite a bit, then all contact seemed to have ceased. I suspect that he was old enough to relay his fascination with the tortoises and his great time at attempting to catch frogs with me to his mother. I feel badly for this little guy. He's as much a victim in all of this as me and my children. He is not my child, nor do I feel about him as if he is, but we are somehow in this together. I am angry with H for seemingly allowing the visitation to become so sporadic and weird all of a sudden. It screams discontentment in the fantasyland that this could all "work" to me. What these two (H and MOW) have done to shake up this child's world is virtually unforgiveable.

I did attend a few tball games for the child (who, yes, is far too young to do this) as long as I knew that H was there. I sat off in the distance, clapped and smiled. At one game OC even broke away and ran up to speak to me as the game ended. I spoke quickly and happily and then left. The child is mostly unattended. I left dignified and without causing any drama. I refuse to for the sake of the child or my own sanity. I don't really want to.

I suspect that I still have faith that justice is not mine to hand out.

Now..on a positively grand note! Last week, I stumbled upon the deal of the century! Well.. at least the deal of my day. That day, 50 pheasant and 50 quail chicks had been delivered to a local feed store. I just so happened to file for a game bird license with the local dept. of Natural resources here a while back in hopes of raising game birds... so, guess who came home with them?

The quail are the size of a 50 cent piece.. absolutely precious. Maybe, just maybe, I can be as well known in the game bird market someday as Colonel Sanders is to chicken.

Pardon that horrible comparison.

Life is what I am currently making of it...and I am learning every day how important it is to keep a level head.

Again, PB.. your comments and afterthoughts have given me much room for thought and I thank you, my friend.

Blessings,

Eibrab

PS Duk.. it's amigA's..hehe

((( Eibrab )))

I only wish that we all here were fortunate enough to be blessed with your fortitude !!! Your strength amazes me.... I was going to ask that you send some my way -- but just being able to read your replies here steadies my uncertain heart and soul and gives me courage to press on.... heck, if someone in your situation can persevere, there may be hope for us all !!!

Once again, I come away from this thread calm and determined...

Sandy -- my precious little fur buddy is absolutely a life-saver, I saved her from the street and she saved me in return... for her I am soooo thankful...

Grandchildren --- only the very best there is !! You have heard it over and over.... people going on about their grandchildren.... but -- you have NO idea how much joy and love that will enter your life until if/when it happens to you..... talk about unconditional love.... once my grandson called me grandma --- my life was complete.....

Sending warm thoughts to y'all.... from Texas


car

Hey Eibrab,

So happy to hear you sounding so calm, so centered - so STRONG! When ever thoughts of you flash into my mind I say a little prayer - for you, your children, your husband, the oc, the mow and her husband, their children, the dogs, the horses, the tortoises, and now the game birds. I must admit I always linger in sending good thoughts to you and the dogs.

LOL,

I am not sure I mentioned this, but I had a couple of friends diagnosed with breast cancer this spring. I put their names on our prayer list at my buddhist group. Once had a tumor the size of a tennis ball - it disappered. The other had a much smaller tumor - it reduced in size by about 20% before being removed. There is prolific empirical evidence now that prayer is effective in speeding someone's recovery whether they know they are being prayed for - or not. Almost spooky but in a sense just reinforces the understanding that we are all connected.

I hope when you have those dark moments and need some light, or when in public you have to dig for grace and composure that for a few scary seconds you are not sure will be there: that you remember there are many who truly care for you. Who wish you well and are sending happy thoughts to you and all your hoofed, furry, and feathered friends.

A big hug

Paradise and Blue

Dear Carnation,

I loved your last post. Nothing like grandchildren and love to make life complete. Perfectly said my friend. Keeping you and Sandy in my prayers. Hoping the turmoil within subsides and you find peace.

A big hug,

Paradise

Journal,

Funny just about to toddle off to bed and I was struck by a thought I should put to paper. Picking up the mail today, I flipped through bills addressed to me and a lovely thank you note addressed to the dog with a dog bone on the envelope.

It was from my film director friend from the beach, I had her and her husband and a few other people in to dinner last week. Before entertaining I scrambled and pulled together a photo album of some pictures of her 50th birthday party I took. Wincing because I am three years late in getting to this.

She wrote just a lovely note, telling me that though I did not know it - I had captured the last pictures taken of a beloved doctor friend of hers who had died about two years ago to a rare form of cancer. She will cherish them always.

The note sits on my desk - funny and touching.

It is strange how even in the little mundane things in life we do - we are all connected - like threads in a tapestry.

I did ton glen practices for her doctor friend though I thought I had never met her. In fact I did meet her briefly at a very big party. I took pictures of her smiling, sitting on a sofa surrounded by my friend's rascally three hounds (who were flopped over in a series comical postures) while she raised a glass of wine in celebration. I looked at her picture on my computer screen for a good while tonight with almost a tangible sense of her being gone but not gone.

Life really is precious and it is expansive, big, spacious because we really are part of some kind whole.

Yawn ..now I really will go to bed.