I don't really know how to convey that I want equal treatment. I'm seeing positive results so I don't think I should be entirely disheartened. Do you think I'm still breaking through her barriers and it's still difficult for her to reciprocate? Will there come a time when one gets through these issues and start reciprocating?

FB,

Thank you for the big LOL this morning from your post. I'm delighted you experienced your special marital brand of connection through a prank. Unexpected, eh?

I heard in SBS's wonderful post that how you treat your partner is where your power is...there's no responsibility or power in struggling to get your parnter to treat you in a certain way.

Treat her as your equal--for she is in every way. See her, address her, value her as your equal. Doesn't get her to treat you in the same way...changes your half of the dance, is an act of respect, love and commitment.

Her barriers are hers...she allows or limits your influence. Please know this...just as you work on your stuff, so is she responsible for hers. As you act from your beliefs, the dance will change...and you'll perceive your "treatment" by her differently, even as she does treat you differently.

Everything changes, FB. Depend on it. Why are you asking if there will come a time when...about her actions...are you basing your choice to act from respect, honesty and love right now based on how she will or won't act in the future? Would that make you a slave to fantasy, conjecture, basing yourself on someone else? Or would you act in the future from your own commitment to love, honesty and respect, anyway?

LA

Can relationship talk be a lovebank withdrawal? Everytime I bring up our relationship I seem to be making my wife angry, sad or more distant. I didn't think telling my spouse what's on my mind or asking what is on hers was considered bad. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes it can if it makes her feel bad. Too much, and she'll start avoiding you, to stop feeling bad. Find a better way to get what you need.

It's just hard to do anything productive without direction. Seems like she is in an emotional limbo. She knows that acting like a beast will drive me away. She knows that acting cold is torturing me. Kinda sums up the relationship recently actually. She does not want to let me go but not does want to treat me with respect. She was never one to tell me what would make her happy. I have always been stuck wondering what I needed to do to make our relationship work. As I result I'm just kinda stuck with my thumb up the [censored], staring at the wall for support. Can people be so unhappy with themselves that they find comfort in causing loved ones displeasure?

Of course they can.

But it's much better to take the high road.

Maybe the two of you could agree to start learning how to talk to each other honestly and without judgment and without having to defend yourself. That way, you'll both feel safe to explain what you're going through. You really need to know this stuff - both of you - about the other before you can fix anything.

I expressed how much her lack of passion has hurt me and that all I want is somebody that loves me back. When I ask her why she has lost her passion for me she says "I don't know....I honestly don't. When I find out I will let you know.". Possible she is waiting for the right time to break some horrid news to me. I would just rather her be honest with me at this point. It would cause me alot less pain and confusion to know there is a reason for her feelings.

Talked with my parents about separation. They advised me that it might be a good idea to have some space. Seems like I'm exhausting myself on a concept that might not work anyway. The more I look at my wife in the face, the more I just think about how much I love her while she is unable to feel the same way. If she grows away even more during the separation it might be better than post-poning the inevitiable. If she truly values our love and marriage, maybe it's time for her to show some effort? Everybody I talk with seems to think I'm beating a dead horse. My mother has gone as far to say that she has used me until she got her degree and now is ready to move on. I don't know, what do you all think?

Well, first off, I think you skirted the issue of hiring a PI. Why? Does it make you feel guilty? I see one of two options: She's having an affair or she used you to get through school. If she used you, you might as well cut your losses. But if it's an affair, you can stop the affair and you'll get your old wife back once the OM is out of the picture.

That's why you HAVE to do the PI. Not to punish but to do the one last step to prove whether or not you can save your marriage.

I think that there might be more gray area though. She could have been showing affair symptoms in order to get me to act rather than just tell me what she needs. Might seem logical to some women to neglect there mates in order to get a response out of them. She might not think she is worthy of me. She might be purposely trying to sabotage the relationship, trying to get me to mess up, so that she won't have to feel guilty about it. I think she showed strong symptoms of this when she said "I wanted you to cheat on me so that I could be mad at you". Maybe she feels that I deserve a physically/sexually active woman as she feels that is uable to provide that...she feels inadequate and guilty. That would kill 2 birds with 1 stone...I would get my needs fulfill and she would get the ammunition she needs to complete the distancing process. She constantly says how much of a "good guy" I am. If I was truly horrible and not worthy of love, wouldn't just leaving me be a better option? I need to somehow let her know that she is worthy of my attention, and I worthy of hers.

I just started looking at your posts so I'm going to comment on stuff from a few days ago.

There is a fine line between treating her like a Queen with you as the peasant and with you as the King(as someone earlier very accurately put it). Treating her like a Queen when you are the peasant makes you needy. Don't take offense to that because everyone that has been in your situation, myself included, is needy. The trick is to not let the "Queen" see it. When you have your relationship talks you are showing her that you are needy. A queen doesn't want someone that is needy. They want someone that is strong, confident, a King. Even if inside you really aren't those things, you need to show her that you are.

You are 33 years old. You are young. If you don't already belong to a gym, join one. Read books/magazines that interest you/make you a better person. Don't just work on your marriage, work on yourself both physically and mentally. When you are working on the marriage you are working on it for both of you. When you are working on yourself you are doing it for you. No matter what her decisions are with your relationship/marriage, she can't negate the improvements you make for yourself. As you work on yourself you will get the confidence back in yourself. You will once again become the King that she is looking for. That will be the difference between you and the other guys you are talking about. Their wives KNOW that they NEED them and therefor will walk all over them. Your wife will know that you can survive without her and will respect you as an equal because of it.

This is very hard to do but when you are working on your marriage, don't expect anything in return for a while. If you ask for it from her you are needy. Come here for support. Go to your friends and family for support. It's one of the hardest things to sit their and get nothing in return after working so hard. But your marriage didn't turn this way in one day and it won't go back to what it was in one day. Think of the end goal. It will be worth it. Good luck to you.

Or she could just be having an affair and you don't want to consider her possible of it, so you'd rather lose your wife than have it be true.

I already belong to a gym. I used to be in excellent shape, but let myself go due to work and being tired. Been picking up the pace more lately as I feel it is a good stress reliever. My wife told me in kind terms (at my physical peak), that she was not attracted to muscular men.

As far as an affair, I do have a prime candidate for an emotional one. A co-worker. A guy that has many female friends and few male ones. Divorced. I've seen him interact with others wives/gf's in ways that seem somewhat inappropriate. This guy seems like somewhat of a predator to me. I've seen my wife mimic his moments like a woman does when they are interested in the opposite sex. Problem is I don't know how to confront her about it. Will it not seem even more desperate and paranoid...especially if she is not doing anything with him?

Which is why you hire the PI.

Don't confront her about it until you have hard evidence of an inappropriate relationship with someone else, whether it is a PA or EA. She will only deny it and then hide it from you even more, making it even harder for you to figure anything out. Your story is very similar to mine in that my fww had an EA with a coworker. Those are just as damaging as PA. I found an email that tipped it off. You need to find some way of monitoring what is going on when you aren't around. Someone mentioned using a voice recorder hidden in her vehicle. I would say that is a very good idea. Odds are they would be going out to lunch together if anything was going on at work. I was fortunate enough that my wife was on maternity leave for 3 months which was when I found the email on her home email address and was able to monitor it for a couple of months to find out what was going on. I didn't have to hire a PI but you might not have a choice. I would at least try to get a hold of her cell phone and check it. You should be able to get a hold of it when she is in the shower or asleep. Just don't tip her off that you know something until you think you've found about everything you can. I held out for 6 weeks after I found the first email before I let her know what I knew.

Going to MC today. Wish me luck. Hopefully I won't have my wife rip out my heart and do an endzone dance on it like she did last time. I ultimately want our sessions to be therapeutic and not an excuse to talk about how sad we are. I'm just going to point out positive things today and how much the relationship means to me. If there is one thing I have found out in last month is that my wife eats my compliments like it is food...after a year of starvation. Seems to amplify when I do it around others. I'm starting to see things clearer. As strong as I thought my wife was, I now realize that everybody needs reassurance, a sense of belonging and acceptance (even if they don't want you to know this). Perhaps alot of this meltdown has been from my lack of expressing this. When I would compliment her in the past or try to be romantic she would say "you are being corny" maybe she meant "you are being corny, but I like it and need it, but I won't tell you this". I mixed message I know, but I'm starting the realize the complex nature of the opposite sex. I'm going to pull something positive out of this. Worst case scenario: I know to handle my next relationship.

Oh is there a table that list the various abrreviations that are used in the post. I am one of you guys now....I best learn for sure what the abbreviations stand for.

Wife didn't show up for MC today, which I totally understand. She was having a busy day at work. She often does and I can't fault her for that. MC and I tackled some issues and seemed to be a decent session. MC asked me what I thought my wife found attractive in me. Thought this was unusual since I don't really know what to think my wife should see in me...that's kinda her territory to expand on. Tried my best to play along.

Wife and I went to birthday party for one of her friends. Had a decent time but I feel awkward in social situations now. I realize that no matter how well things turn out, I will 99% likely not to have any intimate contact with my wife when I get home. It's a feeling that eats at me when I see my wife having a good time....I feel in a healthy relationship good times=good feelings=physical contact later in the night. I also sometimes feel the pressure to "perform" in front of a crowd, so that my wife might see me as a worthy and desirable person. This more often than not makes me over-think my responses, makes the flow feel unatural and makes socialization more of a chore. My wife complimented me to one of her friends, which again made me feel awkward as I feel that I should be complimenting her to feed her emotional needs.

Got home. Felt weak and alone. Asked my wife how she thought the relationship was going. Wife states "I don't know". Felt even more weak and alone. Broke down and cried in a room by myself. I didn't really want my wife to know I was so emotional yet again, but she heard me anyway. My wife came into the room and held me....something that she has not done without prompting in a while. She asked me if there was anything that she could do for me. I told her that holding me meant alot and was enough. My wife said "I still love you". My wife said "I'm sorry". I told her that I would never take anything for granted anymore. I told her that she was only 1/2 of the picture and I was the other 1/2....that she was not entirely to blame. These were all normal responses that I would expect from my wife pre-conflict. I felt a little reassurance. I see some of her barriers are coming down.

My wife called me this morning. She wants to go away to San Antonio with me this weekend. Starting to look much better for me guys. Might be premature, but she hasn't shown this kind of interest...in well...years. Thanks so much for your help. I'll keep you posted on our progress.

Just a post to update you all. Things are really looking up. I just wanted to post some thoughts in case somebody else is having similiar problems...maybe they will find my thread insightful. Had a great weekend. Very romantic and revealing. I think I'm pouring so much into my wife's LB that she is unable to keep the walls up. When we got back from the trip I asked my wife how the relationship was going and she replied "good". When she asked me how I thought it was going i told her "better, but I know I can do better and I don't expect to win your trust completely in this short of time". My wife questioned this response and I told her that there obviously had been something that made her question my abilities as a husband and that it would take some time to gain that trust again. My wife did not question me further. I have learned that my wife is struggling for her own identity. In the past my wife has relied on me for all her interests, friends and hobbies. She is breaking off from that and I am tryig to reinforce that this is totally understandable and appropriate. I want my wife to have her own identity...I just need to reinforce to her that I am comfortable with that. I believe she is scared that breaking off from my interests would create a rift. It won't and I actually find it attractive. And I have been letting her know that I will be there to partake in these new interests with her. I also learned that my wife wants to be "WoW'd" by me. I find that I can impress people on a daily basis, but these are people that don't know me like my wife. She is not so impressed by the same old tricks. I need to somehow instill those thoughts of admiration in her again. I've done it before...I can do it again. Lastly the important thing I've discovered is that my wife needs to feel safe. As independent and strong as she wants to appear on the outside, she wants to feel that someone has her and will protect her. Part of our conflict has occurred because I saw my wife as a friend, somebody that will love me no matter what I do or how I screw up. I got lazy. I know the reality is that my wife needs more on my part and that I need to strive to her ideals. Even if I don't get there, she needs to know I'm trying. It's the act of striving that will show my love towards her. I know this now. Thanks for all the help. Special thanks to Loving...you are truly a philospher and gave me so much inspiration when there seemed to be little hope.