Thanks guys..

I'm not sure how much of a bind she's in financially.. this is the time of year where Wonderboy should be bringing home some bacon before the big winter layoff. They seem to be alright, and WB seems to be able to afford a new $500 softball bat, a new truck, and other fun stuff. Not sure there's much to leverage there.

As far as negotiating custody though, what I believe would be best for DS is joint legal, with physical custody to me.. though I think I'd probably have a much better shot at getting a 50/50 split.. but even then the judges don't like to do that unless the parties agree.. and even then sometimes not. That's the only wiggle room on that I may give. As awful as she has been through all of this I don't think it'd be right to completely take him away from her.. but his primary influence needs to come from me if he's going to have any hope of a 'normal' life. I have a feeling though that custody is going to get fought out in court.

As for the property stuff.. both vehicles were purchased prior to the marriage.. by me.. and I'll be happy to let her buy one of them from me or refinance it in her name.. I think that's fair, though I doubt she'll be able to finance it with her credit. The house, we had for less than a year before she left, and owe yet about 5000 more than the 'actual value' on the tax assessment I got in the mail Saturday, which is a big swing from the 12000 of equity she pulled out of her rectum on her worksheet saying she wants part of. I also know that no bank in the world would finance her for our house at this point. The rest of the marital debt, including a promisary note that she's done her best to 'hide' and didn't include at all in the division of assests worksheet, I'd be happy to split down the middle with her.

The penny ante crap like the couch pillows and boardgames she can take or leave what she wants as long as it wasn't mine before the M, or given to me by my family (though I will admit this covers about 80% of our 'stuff').. but I don't think I should have to pay her for it.. if she doesn't want it, what value is it to her?

Does that sound reasonable?

In the long run, he would be better off.

As for WB's salary...they are no longer living together...right???

I suppose, technically his mail goes to a different address.

Can I prove he's living there? No..

All I've got is the fact that he's there with the kids more than she is.

Hi James,

I am certainly no expert in the legal arena, just one fortunate experience. I would imagine laws change from state to state and the comment to ask your A is the best as they know the laws.

They also have the experience in the courtroom and know what is best to argue your case.

I had to decided what was more important when my A told me that I was going to lose the battle of my children meeting the OW or the money.

I fought my A on this, but then he said essentially I got what I wanted which was the parenting plan I wanted and that was the only thing I gave up. So when I lost in court WH felt like he had won, but I knew I would lose and was prepared for it.

You have to search your heart and find out what's most important here. Pick your battles carefully unless you have an A who will be able to go after her and win. Mine takes more of the conservative approach and nailed WH in court.

I'm praying for you to see G-ds will and gather the strength that you are going to need to get through this next phase.

On the whole you really sound good. I'm glad and it's nice to see you.

How was your 4th? Football in another 3 weeks, camp is starting. Woohoo...

Well.. I've got lots of homework to do it looks like, before I meet/discuss with my A on Thursday.

As for my 4th it was a very relaxing weekend spent with DD. We went to the fireworks at the county fairgrounds.. though I heard afterwards we -should- have been at the ones near GuidedCertainty's stomping grounds. Saturday DD went out shopping and to the movies with friends (she's going to be a teenager on the 15th... God help us all), so I ended up dragging a couple sixers across the street to my neighbors house and we had an impromptu neighborhood pool party, complete with some of the best chicken primavera and breadsticks this fella has ever tasted (mad praise to the neighbors wife and SIL for hooking that up... my tummy is still happy)... lounging in the sun, and good drink, good friends, and great food does a lot to heal a burdened soul. I don't know how I got so lucky to have such great neighbors but I give thanks each day for them... they've both been through this, and I struggle a fair bit because I look at their relationship is an affairage, even though I think she was absolutely right to leave her first H with the abuse/drugs/cheating.. but it is what it is.. he's an xBS and identifies a lot with what I'm going through.. I haven't discussed my confusion then about how he and his W started.. but then again, it's really none of my business. They've gone out of their way a lot to do nice things for me, DD, and DS through all of this and have been super supportive.. whatever their circumstances, I'm glad they're in my life.

Saturday night I went out with my guitar player and we hit up some local scene places. Before I realized what was happening I found myself moving beyond smalltalk, and chatting up a recently un-engaged woman.. I didn't pick up on, or wasn't watching the signals until she started asking some fairly personal questions.. and TBH.. prior to the M I probably would have leveraged the opportunity, but for whatever reason the emotion I could best describe as my gut reaction once I realized what was going on was panic.. I know I'm nowhere near ready to even think about dating again.. Honestly it scares the begeezies out of me.. I couldn't exit the conversation fast enough.. and of course once I started putting on the brakes the interest on the other side piqued. Long story short, I ended up calling it an early night and curled up with my puppy on the couch.

So there's my confession and retelling of the holiday weekend.. was pretty good all told.. just a very weird one from certain angles.


Ok... I thought I was mentally/emotionally doing well.. how the heck did training camp start without me noticing?????

Oh.. and speaking of the puppy.

CAN YOU BELIEVE SHE WANTS ME TO PAY MARITAL INTEREST IN THE DOG?!?!?!???


*sigh*


Man.. if I wasn't so dang attached to that varmit.. he's a handful and go fabulously with her apartment and new furnishings.

LOL - just helping your recovery along and watching your back dude.

Is it too early yet to say that this year, Indy's got hands down the best halfback corps in the NFL?


Just watch em..

It is amazing what the wayward mind will conjure up as reasonable and fair to them. Thank G-d for the fair judges.

I'm watching them, and glad we only play them in preseason.

We actually have a little easier schedule and I think I might even get to one or two games on the west coast.

YEAH....

James

Having just gotten a great property settlement myself, I'll reinforce what others have told you.

Focus on custody first.

Then go for the whole ball of wax on the property settlement as your inital position. I too thought about trying to do a "fair" settlement. My awesome A talked me out of it (said you can only negotiate down from your starting position so don't shortchange yourself) and I ended up beautifully.

Property you had before the marriage is separate and yours.

Try to protect your pension/retirement funds if you can.

Won't comment on the puppy...good grief!

She pays her own attorney's fees--period!

Remember: Waywards do not have the best reasoning skills--a necessary component for any negotiation process. So unless she's got a high powered attorney, you actually have an advantage.

Keeping you and the little ones in my thoughts and prayers always.

Smartie

Listen to Smartie James,

She KNOWS what she is talking about.

Thank you so much for this ((((Smartie))))... reinforces much of what I was thinking.

I talk to my A on Thursday... I'm going to have a plan in hand, ready to go.. starting position on custody is physical and legal custody with me, her getting standard visitation. As for the property stuff, I'm tempted to simply wipe the slate with the penny ante stuff and focus entirely on the debt. I stood in her A's office when all this started, her coworker friend present in the room when I told her to give me a list of things she wanted.. I told her that what was mine before or given by my family stayed, but she could have whatever else she wanted.. she gave me a list.. I typed it up (still have the origonal handwritten list) and made her sign when she came to pick it up.. as far as I'm concerned, anything not on that list or currently in her possession she's abandoned.

Our mutual debt however, and the negative equity on the house.. well.. she's going to owe me for.

Her Atty can eat her fees as far as I'm concerned.. Furthermore, she can pay me back for mine.. I wouldn't have needed this guy if it wasn't for her poor choices. I certainly wouldn't have needed to spend thousands on this guy if she'd actually agree to a fair parenting time schedule.

Bottom line.. my son wants to come home.. I want him home. Her own family acknowledges that she isn't doing right by these kids, and while I likely won't see them on the stand, I have a solid way of getting their opinions/testimony in court without subpoening them. Our neighbors will testify for me.. babysitters/daycare people to testify for me.. and I think it's pretty clear that while she and I are both capable of taking care of DS's daily 'needs', that if the court considers mental/emotional development of the child as a factor, I'm clearly head and shoulders above the 7 (soon to be 8) divorces between the two families.. Frankly, unless the judge really wants to see my son doing as he's learned from his mother in twenty years.. he'd best come home, right now.

Hi Jamesus -

Please take the advice given here about going for physical custody and negotiating from there.

Your son is a little tiny human being who needs you. The rest of it is nothing but stuff. You will always get more stuff. If your WW is as bad as you say, she may trade him for your stuff. Callous and cold as that sounds, some moms do.

Once this chance is passed, it will never come again.

If I were you, I'd at least dangle it. She can have the things she asks for, but some tweaks to the visitation/custody. You may even be able to get half/time. No child support, and he lives with you half the week, or every other week. That can work at least until school starts.

If she doesn't bite, oh well. If she does, borrow from your friends, relatives, or do whatever you have to. It's your little boy, James. He needs you.

I suppose I could let the A dangle it after our talk on Thursday, and be ready with the 'I'm asking for everything' settlement offer when she says no..

I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, the judge will most likely not see it this way. Most likely the only thing the judge will consider at this point is the evaluations and the status quo. On either front, you do not stand a great chance of coming out of this on top. Your wife has had almost sole physical custody of him for 11 months. The judge will be hesitant to upset that situation(absent abuse or neglect).

I would strongly advise you to NOT count on the judge seeing things your way. Hire a PI to verify that the kids are indeed with WB more than the stbx...and also to show that WB is living there (and thus her move was only to fool the evaluator). You most likely would need to hire the PI for about two solid weeks to confirm patterns...but it will most likely be the best money you ever spent.

When/if you DO go to court. You'll need to back up WHY the status quo should not be followed.

Explain why it is NOT working - and WHY you allowed the status quo to be what it is (reducing battles with WW to cause less stress on DS). - anything that focuses on causing the least damage for DS and all the reasons why a little boy needs his dad and how much dad wants his little boy.

I WAS able to change the plan we had been following. I was SHOCKED to get it - but I had darn good reasons WHY it should happen.

Make sure you back up everything - the judge needs to hear the WHY's - not just that you think it's better.

Hang in there, James. I'm praying for you.

Fox

Here are your WHY'S.

Thanks guys.. and yeah, even you too MEDC..

I'll look into the PI thing and see what the A thinks on that one.. I really honestly don't think the judge cares about the A.. She pretty much admitted it on the stand, stopping short of calling it an affair of course.. but still..

It's easy to get discouraged looking at just how much is piled up against me.. and I almost wonder if working in ANY additional time other than the guidelines is going to be a victory..

Doesn't mean I can't -start- from a position of, he comes home and he is legally and physically all mine, and she gets to visit with the parenting time guidelines... much like I am now.

James,

It was my experience that the judge did not care about the A.

However, they should at least care that WW is being less than honest about the living arrangements for DS and who he is spending the majority of his time with instead of her.

Always, Always, Always begin a negotation of this sort by asking for EVERYTHING. What would be the reason not to?

Be strong. Put on the Armor of God. It is going to be a battle and it is one well worth fighting for your DS.

{{{James}}}

Actually this is what the judge certainly WILL care about! It would be beautiful to get his stbx to lie on the stand and then come back at her with proof from a PI. Judges HATE to be conned. This is Jame's best...and I think only chance at this point...of securing custody of his children. Let his STBX hang herself with lies in court.