hicktownmommy,

thanks for posting. I did give her the input for the letter, she is going to make changes. She is stalling though. She says it is over, he has moved on, it was never an emotional A it was strictly a fling, happened over two months and was 5-6 times tops. He now has a serious girlfriend and they no longer speak. Sorry but I am insisting.

She knows how devastated I am, and I hear a lot of sorrow, but I don't know about real remorse. The A is not my fault, but she says the situation of our porr marriage is mostly my fault. She is answering questions truthfully and I can see on her face and hear in her voice how much it is hurting her to answer my questions, but she is doing it. She is opening up about her feelings on a lot of things in a way she has never done in the past.

On the condoms thing, I thought about her taking them with her too, but I doubt she would bring the empty packets back to the house and put them in the box, but still, I am worried and I can't tell you how devastated I was when I found them. I nearly threw up, blood rushed out of my head, got dizzy, horrible.

I got a post from Marsh who told me if the A is truly over not to expose further right now beyond who i have exposed to already but to keep snooping and expose further if there is evidence it is ongoing. I am sneaking home this weekend on a military jet and will be in a rental car. So i'll check up.

I have to tell you since Sunday's talk with her I am experiencing a ton of triggers. I am finding it difficult to work or even get out of bed.

I asked some questions about the SF that I felt I needed to know. I guess I get what I asked for. Apparently she had orga*sms nearly every time and the SF, although she say "nothing exotic" was good. She says she is sorry I asked but she is going to tell me the truth. She says she thinks it is because it was someone new and it was a secret from me and everyone else, or something like that. She will not tell me if he is "physically gifted" but rather says that is a juvenile question but if you must know "normal" and no nothing more than you if that.

I remember you telling me about your WH's experiences and how it made you not want to do some things. Well, I am finding it difficult to kiss her if you know what I mean. Was paying for my drink at the store this morning and glanced at the condom counter. Got dizzy...

Oh yeah,

And while she loves my Plan A stuff like yardwork, carpentry, helping around the house etc. stuff I used to pay other people to do, she says she feels like I am putting on the full court press too much and to relax it up a little...

And she knows this how?

princessmeggy,

because she is friends with the girlfriend. went to the movies with her a couple weeks ago. Charlie (OM) and she went to the keys last weekend.

Triggers are a b*tch. They sneak up on you from behind and can take you down in a heartbeat. I don't know how long they last...definitely 5 months as I experience them all the time.

The talk about how you are responsible for the poor marriage is probably only a half truth. Fog babble. She is rewriting history to make it look like she was justified. Even if she doesn't come off righteous, she probably feels better thinking that you were the source of the malaise. Problem with that story is, there are TWO people in a marriage. She is also responsible for the state of the union. Don't take on too much of that burden.

And I would ignore her "relax a bit" suggestion. Do a great Plan A. Let her know that you are doing it because you know that it makes her feel good and that is your goal. She may feel like it's a bit much because it triggers guilt in her.

Details...details...you cannot erase what you know, but I think I mentioned before to be careful about what you ask. Ask yourself if you knowing that bit of information will help your recovery or not. If not, don't ask. I think that's why eventually Harley encourages you not to talk about the A...it hinders recovery at a certain point (but you've still got questions and that's fine).

I try to let H in on the triggers. I try to let him know when I have a hard time. I don't do it to blame but more to let him know what is going on in me. It hurts him to hear, but he needs to know. I avoided telling him things that bothered me before and look where it's gotten us.

Good idea to snoop. I do wonder if it's over...and INSIST on the NC letter. It is non-negotiable. It is her commitment to you that she will never talk with OM again.

HTM

I should probably update with our conversation last night of 2 hours.

She says she is not trying to justify what she did, it is unjustifiable and she says she knows this, but if I am wanting to talk about staying together she has to be able to at least say how she feels about some things.

She says she sees how hard I am trying to be a better husband, coming home every weekend for 3-4 days, doing yard work etc. but she says she feels very nervous because she has seen this frenzied activity before. How does she know this change will be permanent? What if she fully recommits and I abndon her again like her father, mother, family and I did before? Will she be hurt again? That is what she says she is struggling with primarily. She doesn't think she can withstand being abandoned again. She talked about me moving back in for good when the kids get back from Camp, but is nervous about it.

I have to admit she has a point. With the A pushed off to the side for a minute, she has reasons to be skeptical and it will take time to prove to her that I have changed in this regard.

I await your flames...

htm,

I agree, I am not going to let up on the Plan A or NC letter. I don't feel I am going too far, but, I think you are right, seeing me do such a good plan A makes her feel GUILTY.

On the triggers thing, I kinda think for now I know all I want to know. Knowing that the SF was good and that she had many orgas*s is not helping my mental image bank.

And no, I am not solely to blame for us growing apart, when we were travelling in Europe and skiing in Aspen and she had tons of $ she really never said a thing. It was when things started to go south $ wise (and I started checking out mentally) that she became my biggest critic.

SWW,

Find that balance between taking on her issues and resolving your own. Both sides are accountable for how the M is, but you will never be to blame for her A. I think it's a smart move to evaluate the LB that you have done in the M or the areas that you have not met her EN. After all, when all is said and done, you do want to create an Affair Proof Marriage.

Just stay focused on the steps. You're doing great.

There is lots of "rewriting history" that occurs and I believe that it comes from guilt. You can see from my WH's post (dogo1) that he is speaking from history (some of it not entirely true) that occurred from Year 1 of our M. I think he feels justified in his actions by doing so, but eventually he has to catch up to the "here and now" and realize that he has been living a pretty great life.

My prayers are with you. It would be wonderful to see a full recovery of your M. Did she agree to get counseling, IC and MC?

onlyUcan,

So far she has agreed to MC, IC she is nervous about, she hates talking about her thoughts and feelings and prob realizes she would have to do this and it freaks her out. She is the most private person I have ever known and a severe compartmentalizer. I think the cumulative weight of 40 years has caused a mental breakdown.

On the M, she is dredging up stuff from 20 years ago to support her argument, I didn't go to the Ray Charles concert with her, I skipped her brothers wedding in Texas (yea true unfortunately) I fell asleep during the night on the sofa in the hospital while she was in labor for 15 hours (ok, for 20 minutes but I had been up for 36 hours) and other stuff from a long time ago. She has a long litany.

I am confused on one thing though may be you can explain? She says she goes back and forth from day to day, one days she says she is driving around in the car thinking all day "I can't imagine life without you." Like the day not long ago when she hugged me and said, "I just don't believe it's (our M) over."

Then she says she has days like yesterday where she is totally confused as to what to do, not sure she wants to work on our M.

I'm confused, but I told her that no matter how badly she hurt me, I am not going to abandon her and that I still love her.

Here is an email exchange we just had on the NC letter and why she and OM broke it off. I'm ?????

Me: Please look this proposed letter to CT over and let's talk
later. Please remember I am fighting for you and our marriage and family! To you this may seem unecessary as you say it has been over a month since you last had sex with him. To me this is a war for you and my family, and I just found two used condom packets in my house. I believe you, but I am still very gunshy. In one form or another this needs to happen now. Please talk to me before we do anything.

(I send her the NC letter after changes)

WW: hate it and there's no way that's not a form letter. I still don't get this letter thing or why it's so important, but let me do it and yes you can send it or whatever.

Me: why did you and Charlie stop seeing each other? Because he
started dating Darby again?

WW: Had nothing to do with her at all.

Me: What was it? You just decided it wasn't right?

WW: It just ended. Nothing specific or earth shattering ended it.

Me: did u or he say its over, cant do this anymore? or just havent hooked up again?

WW: definatley mutual. I just wasn't all oooey gooey over him and realized that what i was looking for wasn't him or dating other people. I will tell you though, if I had completely fallen for him I would have filed for divorce the next day. I would have known that if I could fall for another guy I didn't really need you anymore.

WOW!

WAYWARD BABBLE! Don't buy it. She is angry...she is in withdrawl. She is lashing out at you.

Insist on the NC letter. I just told my H it needed to be done so let's get it over with. Very matter of fact.

Make sure you read the letter and send it yourself.

htm,

So you think she really did have feelings for this guy and maybe got dumped for the new younger girlfriend? That's what scares me, because he will be true to his MO and prob dump the girlfriend and WW could be waiting to get right back in there. OM is gonna get a phone call or visit with a voice tinged with anger about what will happen if he goes near WW again.

I am insisting on NC letter, it will get done, I just don't know what I can physically do to stop her sneaking over there except snoop and PI.

This really stinks...

This statement is a CLEAR indication that she in the FOG (hmmm, sounds like an oxymoron, huh?) She thinks she can "fall" for someone and feel "oooey gooey" enough to "file for divorce the next day."

She's definitely waaaayyy out there and has miles to go before she gets it.

SWW,

All of it is true wayward FOG and withdrawal symptoms. Try not to over analyze it and make it yours. Just know that it's part of the process and it's not your WIFE, it's the WAYWARD ONE.

I think it's promising that she said she would write the NC letter. HOWEVER, I can tell you from experience that it never really says is quite the way you would want it said. So be clear on some criteria that you need in there, simple stuff, but be sure it meets those requirements so you won't have it hanging over your head that it wasn't good enough.

SWW,
I haven’t posted to you yet, but I’ve been following your story. I thought I could offer some perspective about your WW since I’m a FWW.

When I told Mr. Z about the A, it was because he pretty much busted me. I got caught in a lie and he wouldn’t let it go until I told him the truth. I thought he was ready to hear it; I had no idea that my confession would tear him to the core.

Although I was relieved the A was over and Mr. Z agreed to take me back, I was in a very similar place as your WW. The OM in my situation was also in a new relationship. I have to admit, I was feeling pretty low about it because I couldn’t handle the rejection. The OM wanted to keep our “friendship” going with me, but the truth was he just wanted to keep me on the side in case things didn’t work out with his GF.

Despite the fact that I knew how lucky I was that Mr. Z took me back, and that he is clearly an extraordinary man, husband, and father, I still fought the urge, sometimes hourly, to keep from texting the OM. Texting had been a habit, like smoking cigarettes. Any time there was news on the radio, or some new song, or a new movie out, I wanted to text him and tell him about it. But, just like with smoking, I knew not to give into temptation. I fought thinking about the OM, even though the A caused me and my family so much pain. To some extent, I think I was addicted to the pain. In this state, I could only think of myself and my feelings and I did not feel much remorse for what I did to my husband. He would tell me about his pain, and I didn’t understand. To make matters worse, he was shouldering the burden of why things went wrong in our marriage.

After a few weeks, the urge to contact the OM started to subside. As the fog was lifting, I began to see the A with clearer vision. I began to see what a toxic person the OM was. As the weeks passed into months, I revealed more details to Mr. Z about the A. I also confessed to things I had lied about right after D-day. I was finally able to take responsibility for what I did and recognized (with lots of MB coaching) that I did not protect my weaknesses my A was not his fault. I took the yoke that he’d been carrying, and he felt tremendous relief from that. At this stage, each day I became more in touch with his pain, and more in touch with him as a man, and we began to connect more deeply, more compassionately, and more honestly. At some point, I started to feel his pain so much that I actually fell into a depression. Although Mr. Z felt bad that I was depressed, my ability to feel remorse helped him heal a lot at that time. I really think that’s when we reached a turning point in our recovery and started working as a team.

After four months since d-day, I actually feel disgust if I think about the OM. Sometimes I shake my head and I can’t believe how I let myself become that person. Mr. Z has told me that he is not going to let the A define who I am, because he knows it was an aberration. We still have years to go, but I do think the severe ups and downs are smoothed out now.

I pray this gives you hope.

Mrs Z.

onlyUcan

How's this?

Charlie,

Our having an affair was wrong. I have told BS everything. I have recommited to my marriage and my family and never want to have contact with you by any means ever again. This is why I have sent you this No Contact letter. Please respect my wishes.


Signature

I would intend to follow up with a somewhat threatening phone call. I want to make this cat scared.

onlyUcan et.al.,

I just sent her the NC letter with the instructions that this has to be done today. I am sure she is freaking and she has gone dark.

If she refuses to send it should I further expose? I know OM's boss, he is the president of the company and one of my dad's best friend. Her group of "friends" are friends of them both.

Should I drop the bomb all at once if she refuses NC letter?

MrsZonie,

Thank you so much for posting. I feel like I understand so much more about my WW hearing this from you. Your post gave me the guts to tell her that the NC letter needs to go TODAY.

I hope she makes the right decision. She seems to think if she tells me she doesn't have feelings for him that that should be enough, no reason for NC letter. Fact is, she was sleeping with him during a time she already told me she didn't have romantic feelings for him, it was just fun SF.

Which begs the question, if you were doing it before with no feelings, what's to stop you from going there again?

sww,

I don't think I've posted to you yet, but I've kept up with your story. Seriously ... if she won't agree to write and let you send a NC letter, regardless of her lame excuses, then you show her the door.

How could you look at yourself in the mirror and do otherwise???

MyRevelation,

My thoughts exactly. Thanks you, feels good to have a pair finally in all this.

I'll let you know what happens.