I don't know if anymore exposing will make a difference. I think that if she refuses the NC letter, you should make a timeline to complete your Plan A (you might feel like you are done) and start on your plans for Plan B.

Those are Dr. Harley's plans and so you know you will be following an expert. Plan A, then Plan B.

Plan B is meant to protect any love you have left for the WIFE and not have contact with the WAYWARD ONE. Maybe one day she will get it and be grateful that you cared enough to follow through.

I hope she sends it and chooses into reconciling, either way you go it's going to be difficult.

We're here with ya!

SWW,

I agree with OnlyUcan. She either does the NC letter or the deal's broken and you go to Plan B. She is resisting for some reason. It may be that she wants to keep that door open, it may be that she is too wayward to get that it is the right thing to do for your M. Whatever the reason, no NC letter means no recovery.

To many pages to go through and I do not remember who you exposed.

I hope that you have exposed to WW parent's and siblings.

"I know OM's boss, he is the president of the company and one of my dad's best friend. Her group of "friends" are friends of them both"

I would expose to the OM's boss and her group of friends.
I would do it regardless of if she sent a NC letter.

Expose OMW/GF? Why not? Do it now!

TheRoad,

Did not expose to parents, siblings but exposed to close friends of hers that that live in our city and have a lot of influence on her and strongly dissapprove.

Did not expose to OM GF because they were not dating at the time, they had broken up. Verified this through a freind of OM. Did not expose further as she came clean once busted and initial exposure took place, promised it was over and would make changes.

Her friends have exerted enormous pressure on her, some coming over nearly everyday and then talking to me as well. If she was going to knock it off completely and was sorry I did not see the need to further expose her A.

Now we are possibly stuck on the NC letter. She is going to call me back in a minute.

SWW,
I’m glad I could help. I should mention that I didn’t write the NC letter for a long time after d-day, it was about a month after. We didn’t know about Marriage Builders at d-day time, so the way I broke it off with the OM is I called him about 3 days after d-day to tell him that I could not talk to him anymore. His response was “I’ll be here if you need me.” A whole month passed, and then he sent me a text message from his phone to my work computer (so that Mr. Z wouldn’t see it) and he asked about the photo printer I have in my office (I work in graphic design). It was something to the effect of, “what kind of printer is that you have there in the back that prints 16x20 photos?”

By that time, Mr Z and I had learned about Marriage Builders so I knew about the NC letter. I did not reply to the OM’s text, what I did was I immediately forwarded the text to Mr. Z and then called Mr. Z right away. I offered to write the NC letter that night because I realized that I hadn’t been firm enough with the OM to ensure no contact. I wrote the letter at work and sent it to Mr. Z. via email, and then he gave me his feedback on what he wanted removed and added. My letter was pretty long, but I think our situation was different. When I got home that night, I hand wrote the letter, gave it to Mr. Z again to review it, and he put it in the mail. I can post it if you’d like, but like I said, it’s pretty long. However, it did the trick. He has not attempted any kind of contact since then, and it’s been about three months since the letter was sent.

But to answer your concern about your WW not having feelings for the OM, I have to say that she is in denial about that. She is saying she doesn’t have feelings for him so that you won’t be upset with her about contacting him. She may not have “love” feelings for him, it’s probably anger, and she feels rejected, and she wants to feel better about herself. She wants to know if he still has feelings for her, even if it doesn’t go anywhere. To put it succinctly, she is looking for a fix. She thinks the fix will make her hurt go away. It’s kind of like crack, you’re always looking for that euphoric feeling, even though the crack leaves scars on your face and ravages your body, you still hope that it will feel better this one last time. Think of the OM as the crack dealer and your ww is the junkie. Right now, she views the NC letter as removing the crack dealer from her life, and she’s feeling incredibly anxious about that because she isn’t ready to let go of the source of her addiction. But, you have to take control of the situation (which is what you’re doing). Just know she isn’t going to like it and she is going to resent it for awhile.

On another note, I was reading my earlier post to you and I was thinking that I must have come across like Mr Z and I are practically recovered. But, that’s totally not the case. We are still struggling and I’ve still got a lot to learn about how I interact with people. I’m learning that I have an intense need for approval, validation, and admiration from men, and I get that by feeding the male ego. This whole experience has caused me to examine my day to day behavior and Mr. Z is not very pleased with me at the moment.

Anyway, keep it up, your doing great and I know this has got to be tough for you.

-Mrs Z

MrsZonie,

OMG!!! You are exactly like my wife!

you said (sorry don't know how to do those boxes:)

" But to answer your concern about your WW not having feelings for the OM, I have to say that she is in denial about that. She is saying she doesn’t have feelings for him so that you won’t be upset with her about contacting him. She may not have “love” feelings for him, it’s probably anger, and she feels rejected, and she wants to feel better about herself."

I think you are exactly right! She says she "doesn't have love feelings for him, never really did" but I can hear in her voice how she is protecting him. She is worried NC letter will hurt his "feelings."

I told her if you say you were sleeping with him when you didn't have love feelings for him then, and now you are saying I don't have to worry about your sleeping with him again because you don't have love feelings for him now, how do I feel comfortable you won't just go back there when he breaks up with GF.

She sounded confused and couldn't say anything for a minute, AND THEN...

With a real sound of sadness and resignation in her voice she said, in response to my above comment, "Well, I hear he's shopping for a ring, so I guess it doesn't really matter..."

You said:

"Right now, she views the NC letter as removing the crack dealer from her life, and she’s feeling incredibly anxious about that because she isn’t ready to let go of the source of her addiction."

I think exactly, i just got a textbook fogbabble set of reasons why she should not write the letter as it was worded.

1. It's so cold.
2. It's cruel.
3. It will hurt him.
4. It wasn't his fault.
5. Why do you always have to get what you want exactly when you want it?
6. I can't be forced into doing something, you know that!
7. Why don't we write it together when you get home this weekend, make it a little less harsh.
8. You want me to do something beacuse YOU WANT IT!
9. So much of this is your fault!!!
10. Well it won't do any good he's in the Bahamas. (me: send it anyway.) Her: NO!
11.blah, blah, blah

She is going to see an IC tomorrow to try to "sort out her feelings" (something that is anathema to her) she wants to know if our relationship is a mistake and she is just prolonging it. She went from nice to furious to nice to furious etc. etc. I think she wants IC to tell her not to write the letter.

Then she dropped this one! "I am sorry, but I still don't know if what I did was wrong." I know you don't want to hear that but it's the way I feel.

I said "I thenk you for telling me the truth, but, you are telling me that you decided to start sleeping with another man because you were pi**ed at me and decided we were separated and that's not wrong? You lied, covered up, lied to your friends, your kids, me everyone, screwed another man while we were married and you still don't know if it's wrong???"

"If you had shred of integrity or honesty you would have said, BS, I am sorry but I cannot live this way, I am filing for D. You would have gotten a divorce and THEN you would have been free to do whatever you wanted with your integrity intact."

She had no response except, "well....." long silence.

You said:

" I’ve still got a lot to learn about how I interact with people. I’m learning that I have an intense need for approval, validation, and admiration from men, and I get that by feeding the male ego."

Oh my gosh, my WW to a TEE! She CRAVES Male attention and has been willing to sleep with men she is not in love with, ONS to get attention. She HAS to be the center of attention.


I truly fell like I should write a chapter for a book on this topic. My WW's A, her behaviour, her reactions, her lies, her fogbabble, EVERYTHING is EXACTLY WHAT Y'ALL SAID!!!

She is like a train going down the tracks and at this point she can't go left or right, she HAS to keep going straight along the script, she has no choice.

Only thing is, she is the only one that doesn't know the script!

SWW,
I agree that she is looking to the IC to tell her not to send the letter. My MC was practically anti-marriage. She was very critical of Mr Z’s snooping and thought his exposure was all about gaining power, as if gaining control over your marriage is a bad thing. She also said that my A was very normal reaction to my husband’s bad behavior. She gave me lots of approval and wanted to be my IC so that she could help me build back my self-esteem. I actually considered it too, but Mr Z was very against it. I was willing to pay lots of money to have “professionals” tell me what I wanted to hear.

It’s a good thing we found Marriage Builders. I do think I need IC as well, but I’m going to research it carefully and make sure that the IC is consistent with MB concepts. I’m certain that my need for attention stems from the destructive relationship I had with my father and older brother. I recognize that my current actions are my own doing, but I need to get over this need for attention.

If your ww’s IC can help with her issues, that would be very helpful, but your marriage needs to come first. Have you shown her these boards?

Let me know if you would like to see my NC letter. I will show you the parts that Mr. Z asked me to add. I have to say that by the time I decided to write the letter, I was ready to do it, and I was ready to be harsh. Had I been asked to write it a month earlier, I would have resisted too. I’m not saying you should delay it though.

Mrs Z

MrsZonie,

Please let me see the letter.

Thank you, you are a big help!

sww,

The more I consider your situation, the more I think you should RUN from this W. She will only be misery to any man she comes in contact with after the initial honeymoon period wears off.

Here it is! I know it’s long, but this letter worked because it was obvious to him that it came from me. The parts Mr. Z asked me to add are in italics. You’ll see that I’m affiliated with the military because there is a reference to a Dining Out.

I got your text message today and decided to write you a letter as opposed to an email. I promised Mr. Z that I would report any attempts on your part to contact me, no matter how innocuous that text message may have seemed. I sent your message to him and I decided it was best that I write this letter so that you are completely clear on where I stand and what I need to do.

I didn’t consider Mr. Z and my daughter at all when I decided to have an affair with you. When I told Mr. Z about it, the devastation it caused him was immense beyond words. I deceived him for over a year, I betrayed his trust, and showed no respect for him as a man or as my husband. I promised to care for him for life, and I dumped all over that promise. He hardly knows me anymore. I have revealed to him every aspect of the affair I had with you and I have stopped all of the lies. This meant I had to come clean on the timeframe, about what we did the day you cleaned out your office, the unprotected sex, the Dining Out, and all of the details. These confessions, as you can imagine, crushed him and almost caused him to leave me, but I had to tell him the entire truth in order to help him believe that I will never lie to him again. I love Mr. Z deeply, and now I can say I love him honestly.

Despite all of the pain that he has experienced because of this affair in all its details, he wants us to be together. It is going to take a lot of time to regain his trust, but I want to rebuild our marriage. To do that, I promised Mr. Z that I would not contact you ever again. I also need for you to not contact me - ever.

That simple text message you sent seemed innocent, but honestly, you don’t need any information from me about printers. You have internet access and you know we use Epson. If I replied to your text, I would be opening up a dialog that I promised Mr. Z I would never have. I’m done with lying and pretending that a friendship with you is possible or even desirable.

You did not lose anything because of this affair, you could continue on with your relationship like nothing ever happened. I, on the other hand, risked and almost lost everything. You must be aware that if you try to contact me now, you are putting me and my marriage at risk.

-Sincerely,
Mrs. Z

Not to dis Mrs. Z cos I think your letter is awesome...but I have heard people mention that the letter should be concise. I tend to agree because it doesn't allow for more fodder for the OP to use.

I don't know. My H wrote one that was about 10 sentences long...half a page hand-written. It didn't say much, but it said what was important. Sometimes I think that is stronger than an in-depth explanation (no offense again Mrs. Z...just a different perspective).

HTM

I can't remember if I posted this to you before or not. Here's a different letter...just to see the options. My H wrote this with some basic guidelines:

OW,

I love and respect my wife and children. I want to protect my marriage and rebuild my relationship with my wife. I will never communicate with you again nor accept any communications from you. What I have done is hurtful to my wife and everyone involved. No one deserves this kind of hurt. There is no need to go point counter point, the affair is over.

H

It is simple yet to the point. H told me afterward that he struggled with it more so because he knew that it was not just for OW but also for me. He told me that he may want to write another letter later...for me.

HTM

No worries HTM! I know the letter is long. I just felt it was necessary for my situation, but I didn't ask any opinions before I sent it. It did do the job though!

Mrs Z...do you have a thread of your own? I would love to see your take on things. Our stories and timelines are similar (only reversed roles). It might help me to understand my H better.

HTM,
I have lots of them. My story is pretty despicable, here is my first post:
I'm the WS and lied to "protect him"

Then there's this one, which hurt Mr. Z a lot, as it shows my withdrawal phase:
WW needs to talk. Need some ears and your thoughts

This was like a kick in the gut to Mr. Z:
As the FWW, do I allow abuse from BH?

This post is where I started to reveal the lies I had been telling:
Confession from a wayward

Finally, this one is about the depression I fell into:
Help! Both stuck in well of depression-Lala, MrsW?

you ALL are so awesome.

I would have jumped off a cliff without you. Got a 2 hour meeting and i'll give you the details when i get back.

Thank you so much.

Wife's IC emailed me (she was my IC as well) about upcoming WW session for background. she is very pro-marriage and does not believe snooping, NC letter etc. is a bad idea.

Your WW's IC might be pro-marriage, but she knows nothing about affairs.

SWW, There is no "perfect" NC letter that will please your WW right now. B/c SHE doesn't want to send one.

She doesn't think it was wrong, and doesn't want to hurt OM.

Which means that either the A is still on going....or she hopes to one day rekindle it again.

She's lying to you about her feelings for OM. Obviously she cares about him otherwise she wouldn't care what he thought of the NC letter.

I noticed that you still haven't moved back home. Why is that?

Have you talked to your WW about relocating?

If you want to R your M, you need to be home every night.

Also, as long as OMGF goes unexposed, (even if they were on a "break") your WW will remain in contact.

She cannot continue to hang out w/ his friends...including his GF.

She cannot continue to travel in his circles.

No Marsh you are right,

She as much as admitted she had feelings for him and I think feels rejected. I am moving back home, we discussed it and I will be back in the house when I go home on weekends which i am now doing every weekend. I have a job interview but it is not until August.

She told me yesterday, "I still am not sure what I did was wrong, I am sorry because I know you don't want to hear that."

She is still in the fog. Mrs. Z's post nailed her head on. She is hoping IC will tell her don't worry about NC letter etc. That is why she is going.

WW goes back and forth and is really inconsistent. I understand full well that she has secret hopes of rekindling the A, and how important NC letter is and the enlistment of her friends in this and my ultimately moving home with a new job for good.

SWW,
Part of your WW’s withdrawal is her grief over the loss of her A. She knows intellectually that Charlie was harmful, but she is struggling with the rejection. She is probably wondering if his GF is going to stick around, and she is afraid that any chance of getting back with him will be lost if you send that letter. Clearly the guy is a jerk, but right now she can’t see that. She may also want to look for reasons not to love you right now, so all of your Plan A actions are making it hard for her to make a case against you. That’s why she wants you to “lighten up.” I don’t know how long her withdrawal phase will last, but the NC letter will force her to throw away the crack pipe.

If she establishes NC, including not talking to the OM’s friends, her withdrawal symptoms will subside and over time you will become her hero. She is keeping contact with the OM through mutual friends, and that doesn’t help at all. She needs to stop talking to them.

Right now she is also wondering if she wants to stay in the marriage. The very beginning of withdrawal clouds wayward thinking so much that we view saving the marriage as a jail sentence. I know that’s got to be tough to hear.

I went through all of those emotions. It’s hard to believe, but once the fog lifted, I fell in love with Mr. Z again; I didn’t think that was possible. His enormous character floors me to the point where now I feel I don’t even deserve him. He put aside his pride and took me back, and that speaks volumes about the incredible man that he is. Although I feel unworthy, I’m holding on to him and I’m trying to be the wife he deserves.

I hope your WW will see that in you. If she does, your marriage will survive.

-Mrs Z