|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 176
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 176 |
As I said before, you do not accept responsibility for your crime. So you can't say you "take 100% responsibility." You do not. See this is the punishment model that a lot of you like that I will not buy into. Referring to an affair as a "crime", please.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,965
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,965 |
I just seem to be a bit different then some people that come here. Nope. You are a very typical, completely average, tried and true, plain vanilla wayward spouse. Nothing special or different at all. You want to think you are different. You want to think you are special. You want to believe that the pile of S*!t you buried your BW and OWH in smells like roses. I don't blame you. Should the day come that you truly understand the devestation and hurt you and your OW have directly caused to your spouses well.....I am glad I am not "different" like you.
Testosterone boys! Testosterone! It ain’t just for nose, ear and back hair anymore!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288 |
Direct confrontation doesn't work for me either. Your response is under your control. You can continue the conflict or let it go.
Fox You make a very good point right here. I think I will follow it. Until I have a specific question to ask I am not responding to any more posts here. That's fine...disengage when you feel threatened...even if what we are telling you is going to be helpful for YOUR WIFE...nicely done, pal.
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth"
Henry David Thoreau
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288 |
As I said before, you do not accept responsibility for your crime. So you can't say you "take 100% responsibility." You do not. See this is the punishment model that a lot of you like that I will not buy into. Referring to an affair as a "crime", please. Tell that to your wife...see what happens.
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth"
Henry David Thoreau
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,916
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,916 |
HU: Your methods don't work on me. What does work with you? And if you accuse me of being Mel's yes man, you will be wrong. You are on a forum that follows the teachings of Willard Harley, Jr., a shrink that has formulated a plan for marital recovery and marital stability, which most of recognise as a good thing. What I see clearly in your posts is an entitlement mentality and one that has problems with defining honor and integrity within the conditions of the Golden Rule, right versus wrong and that you have bought into the garbage of "Doing what feels good," type of thinking. No, I haven't read all your posts, not gonna. Your attitude sucks in my opinion. I have asked you questions to see how you would respond. So far, you have made the choice to justify instead of answering, to rationalize instead of owning your own cr@p. I am just another stranger; you haven't impressed me and I believe I correctly state that you don't care. And not caring is your downfall in the test of being a grownup and a real person. I am outa here. Larry
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 80
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 80 |
Because even though I am over thought of "her" I am not over the thoughts of how the affair was different then my marriage. That is something I struggle with daily. Call it fantasy land or what ever but every memory in your head is a fantasy so a simple answer of just forget it does not work. Reading your posts it seems that scripting scenarios that are beyond your domestic reality is important to you. I sort of get the impression that you're rather dissociated from the ordinary incidents of real life and gravitate to a more fantastical POV. Obviously, I don't know you, but I wonder whether you have kids and if you play MMORPGS or something similar? It's almost as if you're running away from something--but that's just a supposition on my part.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906 |
dagnabbit... now he won't read my post... and I think I was up for an award on using the word nuturing and its derivitives more than humanly possible in one post...... I'm just like Kathy Griffiths... always on the D-list of posts!!!!!   arkie
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,423
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,423 |
I was invited in so I don't harbor any feelings of responsibility. So....if you follow this line of thinking..... This may seem to be a drastic comparison but if your belief just "is what it is" than it should apply. This is an incredibly DRASTIC situation to your BW and the BH. If you were INVITED to assist someone in a killing or INVITED to be a party to molesting a child - then you have no responsibility in it, right? The BH did not INVITE you into his marriage. You STOLE from him. You need to GET THAT. OW has a responsibility to her BH and SO DO YOU. You have a responsibility to your BW and SO DOES OW. Your BW cannot truly heal without this. Fox
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
Sorry to tell you this but different people respond to different methods. Your methods don't work on me. YOUR methods don't work on you either, though. Have you noticed that? Your method has been to surround yourself with YES MEN who will tell you what you want to hear. And what is the result? A wayward man who is as foggy after 5 months as an ACTIVE wayward. You are simply angry because I have pointed out the obvious foggy contradictions in your statements. Everyone sees them except you. You are the falling down drunk in the room and everyone is looking on in shock. Your "methods" do not work, friend. They have availed you NOTHING. Do you want to go somewhere with your marriage? Because we can take you there if you take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth. We will help you, but we won't tell you what you want to hear or pretend like you aren't spewing some bad fog.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 176
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 176 |
I will be honest that being aggressive and defensive is my nature and is not going to change.
I just want to play with this sentiment here a bit....
I want for the sake of debate and arguement.....that perhaps being aggressive and defensive...has not served your wife, you, and your marriage so well....
and that while it may your first impulsive response to a situation...that it is not as much as nature...as a choice...
the first choice that comes to you probably...
but still a choice....
you and I and anyone else....have first reactions....
but you and I and everyone can see and CHOOSE the appropriateness of the response...
I'll bet you that when your boss is telling you something you don't like...your first response is NOT aggressive and defensive...though you may feel that way...and you may want to say something along that route...you are smart enough to realize that in the work situation it doesn't serve you well...
logically then
perhaps in rebuilding...
recreating
and even maybe creating a marriage both you and your wife's spirits will thrive...perhaps it is time to change...time to learn and time to figure out new ways of communicating...other than what you call your nature....
people can and do change allll the time...
you can as well....and in fact it will serve you much better to be open to it...
here's some other things your post has me chewing on..
you several times stated that when you love someone you contiue to care about them and want to protect them......like you have done for anyone you have loved...
yet your actions where of the most unprotective sorts that one can do to one's spouse....
in other words.....
you didn't apply much protection to your wife...
Because even though I am over thought of "her" I am not over the thoughts of how the affair was different then my marriage. That is something I struggle with daily
this is where ownership and light shed on this issue can be helpful....
marriages do not exist on their own...they are products of actions....
affairs do not exist on their own...they also are products of actions....
in affairs....the WS and OP participate in thoughts, actions, and emotions that are given to one another...and held back from every one else...
YOU most likely spent a great deal of thought sysnapses on your OW>..
thinking of her
thinking of seeing her
thinking of telling her this or that
thinking alllll kinds of things.....lots and lots of cerebral energy placed on to and focused on her....
lots and lots of energy taken from your marriage....and misplaced in to the affair relationship...
you were probably more energized with the OW>..not because there are super powers that make you energized...but because that is what you wanted to be and present to her....
you were probably more charming with OW....
than with your wife..
more flirty
more witty.
more more more and more.....of you placed on to the OP....
and if that is the case...
if you did all these things....
the affair was different than your marraige because YOU created it to be different..
in fact the more sentiment and power you gave these acts and feelings and more it fed in to the cycle of the affair that it was different...better...funner....than marriage....
it's a vicious cycle...
it's new and brain synapses LOVE new things...
take a serious thoughtful look on every act you did in the affair..
your tone of voice..
your desire to please her
your desire to charm her...
I realize you had a long term affair....
did you keep the energy level up..or did you settle in to the familiar in the affair...
your affair was as good as you made it..
marriages can be as good as you make them as well...
I have one more question...
do you value nurturing...and do you believe you are capable of nurturing....someone else...
I ask this sincerely...not to make you defensive...because you really do present with an attitude of seperating your self from other lives...
that few people mean anything to you...
the betrayed husband...
even the fact that you view the other womans actions as her choice and the consequences her problem....
it's very interesting and I am curious if you can and do see yourself as a nurturing guy...
and is that something interests you at all...being nurturing...
and if you are being honest.....about the issue of nurturing..
if the answer is no you don't feel like you would want to be the type of guy that can nuture...or it is not natural for you or whatever...
that's an OK honest answer....
and I would weigh that answer heavily in to rebuilding...
cause marriage is all about nurturing...
and some people aren't interested in it...but they should be honest about that ...
and if you value nurturing
do you think you are a good nurturer...
or something you should learn better
have you thought a lot about nurturing...
cause your post sure made me think that you a much more black and white kind of thinker..
you give respect only to those that earn it...
you care about only those that care about you..
but believe me...I can be way way wrong on this....so I hope I didn't offend you too much
ARK WOW now that was a powerful response!!!!! Yes I am from an IT background so I am very black and white on issues. I do consider myself nuturing in some cases. You make so many valid points in your post I really cannot respond to them all. But you really struck home with the I did not care for my wife when I did have the affair. I was not protecting her and you are right. I am trying to make my marriage more like the feelings (not the actions) I had in the affair. It is a struggle because I still to feel withdrawals because the affair seemed so much easier. Thank You!!!!! I am going to save this post and read it again.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 176
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 176 |
Reading your posts it seems that scripting scenarios that are beyond your domestic reality is important to you. I sort of get the impression that you're rather dissociated from the ordinary incidents of real life and gravitate to a more fantastical POV. Obviously, I don't know you, but I wonder whether you have kids and if you play MMORPGS or something similar? It's almost as if you're running away from something--but that's just a supposition on my part. I don't play MMORPGS, but you have a fair analysis of me. To do a lot of the work I have think outside of real world. I do at times feel like I am running away from something but not really sure what it is.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288 |
Reading your posts it seems that scripting scenarios that are beyond your domestic reality is important to you. I sort of get the impression that you're rather dissociated from the ordinary incidents of real life and gravitate to a more fantastical POV. Obviously, I don't know you, but I wonder whether you have kids and if you play MMORPGS or something similar? It's almost as if you're running away from something--but that's just a supposition on my part. I don't play MMORPGS, but you have a fair analysis of me. To do a lot of the work I have think outside of real world. I do at times feel like I am running away from something but not really sure what it is. Responsibility
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth"
Henry David Thoreau
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906 |
affairs are easy because we are always most likely on our better if not best behavior.....
and even the bad times we apply this twisted torn lover emotion status......
the poor us...
we are victims to our love...
and it's so hard to go on....and on....yet in the name of love...we will get through this...crisis...drama...etc...
for we are soul mates....
the old ...it just happened ...we couldn't help it
also if your affair was years long...
you used your brain waves for a very long to compartalmentalize...your actions...
you seperated values...
honesty
truth and
pretty much existed in relative moralism...
that the lies you told your wife to enact in the affair were justified because you luuuuved the OP....
that's a long time to bend your brain waves to make the "wrongness" of something see "right"
you drank the koolaide of affair flavor for a long long time...
ARK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,153
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,153 |
Before long some new loving husband of your wife's will be putting your kids to bed, tossing the football, watching Saturday morning cartoons and taking them to the movies.
And you will have been the cause of it.
That's if you're lucky.
If you're unlucky, your wife will choose poorly (she did once) and she will marry some drunk who will slap her and the kids around. Maybe he's even a molestor?
And you will have been the cause of it.
Wake up.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
See this is the punishment model that a lot of you like that I will not buy into. Referring to an affair as a "crime", please. Dr Harley, a clinical psychologist, defines it in the same category as RAPE or the death of a child. Other psychologists rate it as bad as a PHYSICAL ASSAULT. It is the WORST thing that can happen to someone. Did you know that? Have you watched Dr Harley's video on the How to Survive Infidelity link?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 176
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 176 |
affairs are easy because we are always most likely on our better if not best behavior.....
and even the bad times we apply this twisted torn lover emotion status......
the poor us...
we are victims to our love...
and it's so hard to go on....and on....yet in the name of love...we will get through this...crisis...drama...etc...
for we are soul mates....
the old ...it just happened ...we couldn't help it
also if your affair was years long...
you used your brain waves for a very long to compartalmentalize...your actions...
you seperated values...
honesty
truth and
pretty much existed in relative moralism...
that the lies you told your wife to enact in the affair were justified because you luuuuved the OP....
that's a long time to bend your brain waves to make the "wrongness" of something see "right"
you drank the koolaide of affair flavor for a long long time...
ARK All very true. So what is the best (or any) way to purge the koolaide? Because I would love to have what I felt in the affair with my wife.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288 |
See this is the punishment model that a lot of you like that I will not buy into. Referring to an affair as a "crime", please. Dr Harley, a clinical psychologist, defines it in the same category as RAPE or the death of a child. Other psychologists rate it as bad as a PHYSICAL ASSAULT. It is the WORST thing that can happen to someone. Did you know that? Have you watched Dr Harley's video on the How to Survive Infidelity link? Here's the link....... http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6806_inf.html
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth"
Henry David Thoreau
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,288 |
affairs are easy because we are always most likely on our better if not best behavior.....
and even the bad times we apply this twisted torn lover emotion status......
the poor us...
we are victims to our love...
and it's so hard to go on....and on....yet in the name of love...we will get through this...crisis...drama...etc...
for we are soul mates....
the old ...it just happened ...we couldn't help it
also if your affair was years long...
you used your brain waves for a very long to compartalmentalize...your actions...
you seperated values...
honesty
truth and
pretty much existed in relative moralism...
that the lies you told your wife to enact in the affair were justified because you luuuuved the OP....
that's a long time to bend your brain waves to make the "wrongness" of something see "right"
you drank the koolaide of affair flavor for a long long time...
ARK All very true. So what is the best (or any) way to purge the koolaide? Because I would love to have what I felt in the affair with my wife. Hate to break it to you, but what you had in the affair was a dishonest, immoral, delusional, fake relationship. You may want that, but I'll tell you without even meeting your wife that she doesn't. You're wasting your time.
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth"
Henry David Thoreau
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 176
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 176 |
Hate to break it to you, but what you had in the affair was a dishonest, immoral, delusional, fake relationship. You may want that, but I'll tell you without even meeting your wife that she doesn't. You're wasting your time. So the feelings of love, affection and admiration are not possible to have outside of an affair? Because if that is true then yes I guess I am wasting my time.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,834
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,834 |
HU:
It's a crime.
What we did.
You may not think so.
Now.
But you will.
And until you realize this, you will ALWAYS be susceptiable to another affair. So will your BS. Because she senses that your not "all there" for her in this M anyway.
It takes awhile to change this attitude.
Lets change the direction of the conversation.
What have you done since D-Day to be a better husband?
To establish trust?
To re-connect?
To address WHAT your BS needs to stay married to you?
What behaviors have you changed?
It's tough being a wayward spouse on this forum. It's easier once you earn your "F" for former. There is room for you, but you have to do the work to start protecting YOUR personal boundaries.
Withdrawal? Yeah, its tough. Give up the fantasy. Six months of NC should have clean out your withdrawal issues by now.
You never had to pay the bills with OW.
Never had to do the laundry.
Never left to play golf on her and leave her with the kids and a messy house.
I told my OW that "She only got the best of me."
In reality, I was only giving her my worst. Because it was a fantasy.
There is alot of help here.
I still recommend that you go to Minneapolis for the MB weekend with your W. That will open your eyes and it will show committment to your spouse that your ARE interested in fixing yourself and your part of the M. To make it the best it can be.
LG
|
|
|
|
0 members (),
320
guests, and
53
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
