It looks like SWW ended the A.

And now it looks like he's going to get a job that will keep him at home.

Two very big hurdles.

I'd be willing to bet that SWW never learned about love busters or other MB principles before he came here.

He's learning.

And if she is willing, she will learn too.

Hopefully SWW will call Dr. Harley and set up an appointment so that they can formulate a plan that will make them BOTH happy.

IHadEnough makes some very good points SWW. You should file that post away for down the road if your WW decides to continue this acting out, EVEN after you have returned home and done a good Plan A. She has been yankin' your chain for quite some time.

Hi all,

had a decent night last night. A little fun with WW and DS. Slept in my bed with WW on the other side watching tv and then falling asleep.

No confrontations, no talk at all about thr R or the M or the A.

I can't explain it, but today I just feel this incredible sense of power and clarity.

I now realize I control my destiny and if she wants to come along on the plan that I have she is welcome and of course it will ultimately be a plan that we both subscribe to hopefully. If she cannot, then that will be her decision. I am plan A'ing and refuse to be baited and it feels really good.

It's almost like I am a teacher and I know the lesson plan, I know what excuses (like the dog ate my homeowrk etc.) that she is going to come up with, say etc. She is a perfect foggy WW and doesn't even realize it! Her words are almost funny to me and I have to resist cracking a knowing smile.

I read the lengthy posts from a lot of you to that HU character and it was very instructive, he sounds like my WW only WW is not so angry, or at least doesn't outwardly show it.

WW is very depressed right now and on the emotional roller coaster. I am just riding along in the seat next to her smiling.

Awesome news!

Felt good to sleep in YOUR bed, in YOUR bedroom again didn't it?

Now don't you leave it!


Good deal!


You are. And you do!


Plan to take her out and have some fun w/ her.

You've got to start doing stuff TOGETHER.

She has learned to have her "fun" w/o you for too long.

No more babysitting so she can go out.

You go out together.

Fill her social calendar up w/ YOU.

NOW...

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO CALL DR. HARLEY?!?!

Excellent news! I am so glad that you have seen that YOU are the master of your destiny in this marriage. You are RIGHT about your WW needing to decide to follow your lead or get off the ride. That's GREAT!

It is hard when a WS says something directly from the script. I still find it intriguing how predictable a WS can be. My H still spouts fog babble sometimes...although not as often.

Keep spending quality time with WW and family. Make it an awesome Plan A.

BTW...my H did come home for the appointment last night, although he spent the majority of the time arguing with the counselor.

Hi friends,

boy what a crummy night last night. Wife left to go out with "friends" leaving me and DS at home.

I offered to take her to dinner:

ME: How about Longhorn.

WW: I hate Longhorn.

ME: Ruths Chris.

WW: No too heavy.

ME: How about Italian or Mexican?

WW: No.

ME: Is there somewhere you would like to go special?

WW: No I am really not hungry, why don't you go to the store and cook a steak for you and DS, I'll just eat a little something from the fridge.

I go to the store, get steaks etc. and come back. WW is dressed up and is obviously going out. I pretend not to notice. After a little while she says, "hey I am giong to run over to friends house and smoke a cigarette, I'll be back in a bit."

She leaves, I cook me and DS dinner on the grill and we settle in for a little Indiana Jones. WW comes home around 11:30 and heads straight to bed. I did drive by "friends house" her car there and no OM car. Just abunch of her girlfriends cars.

It is patently obvious that she hates having me in the house and makes any excuse she can to get out of there, go to the store etc. I didn't realize someone could sleep on 2 inches of mattress either. She won't undress in front of me (I guess I understand that for now) and is very quiet and seems angry.

I am trying very hard. No angry outbursts, DJ's or LB's but it aint easy. I asked if she would like to do somehting fun today? No. I offered up half a dozen ideas, none appealing to her, why don't you just take DS? I am going to stay here and clean.

So, me and DS going to eat lunch and play golf I guess. Nothing has changed...

Oh yeah, ixnayed the calling the Harley's idea outright, "wants to figure it out on her own and doesnt appreciate being pressured."

No, YOU call him so he can help you w/ YOUR plan.

Having a plan and a coach to get YOU through this is what you need.


You've got to get rid of your expectations. Otherwise they will quickly turn into resentments.

It isn't surprising that she isn't on board yet. You've got to try to sell her on the idea by working a good Plan A, and trying to make deposits in her LB.

Call Dr. Harley.

Try this... "W, I know you're angry. You must know I'm struggling too. What do you say we go out one night and just have some fun together? No relationship talk. I've got tickets to the comedy show tomorrow night, and I've arranged for a sitter. How about we go together?"

If she declines. Just say, "OK" very matter a factly.

But, YOU get dressed nicely (new clothes), smell great (new cologne) and YOU go.

She told you, she wasn't exactly going to roll out the red carpet for you.

Her behavior shouldn't surprise you.

She's got her walls up.

You've got to be patient and look for oportunities when she will let her guard down so you can make deposits in her love bank.

Remember, if she starts to talk...even if it is foggy, don't argue w/ her or try to educate her. Let her talk, b/c it is meeting her need for conversation. You don't want to cut her off.

Let go of your expectations and keep watching your LBs.

Marshmallow,

yes ma'am, taking ds to play golf. WW unsure what she is doing tonite either. I told her think about it but would love to take her to a movie if she likes. She said no way, "the new something movie (can't remember) opens this weekend, it'll be a mad house."

I'll keep trying and call Dr. Harley when I get back to dc next week.

Cut her some roses from my dad's garden, put em a nice vase, red and yellow with a firey yellow red flower to match. She seemed to really like them and like she softened for a minute.

I'm such a "hopeless romantic" now eh?

For WW actions are what's important, not words, which is why my comlpimenting her and such rolls off like water off a ducks back. The roses gig was pretty good though.

She's right.

The Dark Knight is selling out everywhere.


You'd better!


That's good stuff.


Good job paying attention!

Picking flowers for her let her know you were thinking of her! So will hiring a babysitter and buying tickets for a special night out.

So will picking out a thoughtful, but not over the top card and MAILING it to her.

Women love this stuff.

And be chivalrous, be gallant, be thoughtful, and win her heart again.

Does your WW like to buy new clothes? Something my H did for me once was he got us a sitter and then took me to the mall and we went shopping together. I tried on outfits and he gave his opinions (usually good) and I got to choose a few new things to buy without thinking of the price. Then we went to dessert in a little coffee shop. It was a pampering experience and one that I wouldn't have done for myself. He didn't tell me what we were doing, he just said it was going to be a treat for me.

Other things that show affection through actions...

Draw a bubble bath for her and let her just soak.

Make her dinner and set the table romantically.

Write a sweet note and stick it to the mirror in the bathroom.

Bring her flowers (something you can do again).

Make popcorn and have a movie night at home with her.

Put a chocolate or a flower on her pillow.

Text her a love note. (I love it when I find little love notes)

Dedicate a song on the radio to her.

I'm not sure what things will go over well with your WW because some might feel too pressured for her, but the little things are very possible to do.

I agree you need to talk with the Harleys about a plan for you. It will help you to feel like you understand where you are going with this.

I am a little concerned about leaving her at home while you and DS do things...it feels a bit like you are giving in to her independent behavior when you COULD be there. I get that you cannot stop her from leaving without LBs...but you could stick around the house and do things there with your DS so that WW sees you and feels your presence. I may be way off on this one, so don't hold me to it.

How's it going? I hope your time at home is going so well you don't have time to come here.

We are thinking of you.

HTM

hicktownmommy,

thanks for thinking of me. Time at home ended this morning, big navy called yesterday and i was on a plane this AM early.

You know, I have to say I really tried. No LB's all weekend and didn't succumb even when baited.

No R talk either, except if she brought it up to say she still doesn't know what to do. She was uncomfortable being in the house with me all day and night though and thought up excuses to leave, even if only for 10 minutes or so.

Talked for 25 minutes this morning and got several emails from her where she was doing some online research for the company that may want to interview me.

Cell phone bill comes out in a day or so, we will see if there is NC since my dropping the bomb on her and OM charlie. Prob won't be but we'll see.

I am going to call Harleys later this week when i get uncovered to see what kind of schedule they have. WW goes to counselor (unless she cancels again) wednesday.

This is pretty hard, being blamed for the A and having to be the one to be the nicest to someone who cheated, lied and then SHE can't make up HER mind if I am good enough for HER!

I know, it's all part of the drill, BUT, although it says it takes 6-8 months from DDay to get angry, I am starting to feel it coming on already. I shudder to think how much i will have to bite my tongue in 4-6 months. Brrr...

I think that you may be surprised how quickly your WW will turn around once she really has NC with OM and you are back at home.

As for the blame thing...you don't have to LB to defend yourself. You can still state that the A was her choice and you are sad that she made that choice, but you are willing to work to rebuild your M. I think it's important to know that while you are doing Plan A, you are still honest with her about your feelings. You just have to do it in a constructive way and not get sucked into a fight.

If your WW makes a snide comment about how you are the reason she went to OM...you can respond by saying "We all make choices in our lives and I am hurt that you chose to go to OM, but I am here now and want to rebuild our M." Something like that...that way you can let her know that she's not going to get away with blaming you, but that you aren't going to attack her either. It has to come off as a statement of fact rather than a judgment.

Tricky, eh?

HTM et al. Sorry this may be long...


"I think that you may be surprised how quickly your WW will turn around once she really has NC with OM and you are back at home."

Not sure about that one HTM. I really don't know what to say this morning...

Had a 1 hour conversation with WW last night. Started out ok, then she dropped the bomb on me I had to come up with roughly 6k for schools etc. by 15 aug.

I was actually pretty restrained, but, it did go into arguing. I can't remember how it progressed, but it got into how she was miserable, frozen, depressed and angry...

She is tired of her friends who i exposed to telling her to "fix it." She has her back up.

We talked about the A and she maintains "we were separated, I didn't do anything wrong, and as far as I am concerned we still are separated."

She is angry that I didn't give her time to visit IC to figure out how she would have handled OM charlie. Said like everything else, I took matters into my own hands without regard for her feelings or side of the story. Said it has been this way forever.

I was not a doormat, and told my side.

It seems, for years I have been fulfilling only one, but her most important EN, Financial Support, once that was undermined the whole house of cards came tumbling down. When things started looking bleak, she started the EA with old BF glenn. Things bleaker, she started PA with Charlie.

I know one thing for sure, as long as I am up here in DC this will never work.

She says NC in place, BUT, she doesn't care if I care or not. She is done, out of gas, no feelings of love for me at all. Not anger or hatred, just nothing, doesn't care. Can't see any hope at all and hates to be around me. Confusing, as she calls me sometimes or when we hang out she wants to talk, but that is fleeting. Says she knows how much I snoop and I think she thinks it is pathetic, not angry anymore.

I am like the boyfriend/girlfriend we all had in college that just couldn't get it; "it's over, don't you see, quit trying, I don't want you anymore."

She talked about D, said maybe it's best you call Bill and let's get it done. Said she knows she doesnt have a pot to p*ss in but that I would have to support her.

I told her I loved her still. That I thought it was a bad idea to throw away 24 years in anger. She is just spent and depressed, mostly about the finances. She blames me for everything that is bad in her life.

I am going to call Harley's now. I really need help.

WW is very resentful that it took her having an A to wake me up.

I think it may be best that until I talk to Harleys I just leave her alone and don't call her. Just be pleasant when/if she calls.

sigh...

Back up? What did she mean by this?


This is not surprising. It takes a while before a BS will get a sincere apology.

Remember, she has been justifying the A's to herself for a long time.


Again, this is typical fogspeak and marital history rewrite.


Did she actually say this, SWW? That her number one EN was FS?

B/c it doesn't make sense to me that a woman, whose number one EN was FS, would fall in love w/ two different men who weren't making MORE money than you were.

But, it does make sense to me that a woman whose H was only meeting ONE EN would find herself vulnerable to A's especially when you throw in financal stresses.

Financial stresses can rattle a good M.


You got that right!

When will that other job open up?


This is not surprising. You haven't made many deposits in her LB in a long time. Partly b/c she blocked them w/ her A's. But, also b/c you thought there was only one kind of deposit she was interested in.


Now, granted I don't know the entire conversation, so I'm just going by what you've said here, but you would have done well if you hadn't given your side.

SWW, your WW was opening up to you. I tried to tell you earlier to just LISTEN to her. You are meeting a VERY important EN when you do this. My guess is that conversation is her number one emotional need, as it is usually very high w/ most women.

The next time she tells you how abandoned she felt, say something like this, "I am so sorry. I never realized how much you hurt b/c I was so focused on my career."

The best way to stop a woman in her tracks is to admit that you were being stubborn, insenstive, inconsiderate, and hurtful. Do your best to pay attention to her, let her vent w/o letting her words get to you.

I know how difficult it is to have someone you love, blame you for all the problems in your R, but if you want to R your M, then you need to LISTEN more. Don't argue or try to educate her about how mistaken she is.

Now is not the time for that. She's not ready to hear your side. She wants to be heard.

She NEEDS to be.

Try to find something you can agree w/ her about. Be humble. If you can't agree w/ anything she's saying then say, "I understand." Or "I can see what you're saying."

You can turn the most unpleasant conversation into one where you are making HUGE deposits in her LB if you are willing to JUST listen.


Good. And yes, you do.

SWW, you can R this M.

You just need a plan, a coach, and time w/ your WW.


This is very typical.


You can call her.

Just try to be upbeat. Humble. Open. Caring.

And yes, definitely pleasant.

It would have been ok to tell her you needed some time to think about what she just said. Tell her, you'd get back to her about this.

Then take some time to cool down. Go for a walk. Think about how you wanted to respond and then call her when you've calmed down.

Someone needs to be in control during difficult conversations. Let that person be you.

Have you read about the POJA?

Marshmallow,

as always a breath of fresh air. see below if you will:

She is tired of her friends who i exposed to telling her to "fix it." She has her back up.

Back up? What did she mean by this?

She is a very headstrong, and yes, stubborn person. Her friends that I exposed to are encouraging her to work on the M and this makes her more opposed to working on it she says than if they were to leave her alone she says. She will not be "forced" into anything.

We talked about the A and she maintains "we were separated, I didn't do anything wrong, and as far as I am concerned we still are separated."

This is not surprising. It takes a while before a BS will get a sincere apology.

Remember, she has been justifying the A's to herself for a long time.

This one has me worried. If she is maintaining that because we were "separated" she has the right to have affairs, her argument that "as far as she is concerned we still are" means but one thing; time to start another?

She is angry that I didn't give her time to visit IC to figure out how she would have handled OM charlie. Said like everything else, I took matters into my own hands without regard for her feelings or side of the story. Said it has been this way forever.

Again, this is typical fogspeak and marital history rewrite.

Thing is she stalled on going to IC for weeks and still didn't fully commit to going tomorrow. Yep, she told me last night that as she looks back on it she didn't do anything wrong at all in our married life, that she was the only one that tried at all.

It seems, for years I have been fulfilling only one, but her most important EN, Financial Support, once that was undermined the whole house of cards came tumbling down.

Did she actually say this, SWW? That her number one EN was FS?

No, this is my interpretation. She told me last night in the same conversation that she was saying we were unhappy for years and it was my fault, that we had had a lot of good times and mostly these seemed to revolve around things we did that required money. Travel etc. She says she is so stressed out now over $ that she cannot think. So, yes conversation is very important to a woman who talks 5000 minutes a month on her cell, but I think FS is her most important.


Here is my concern. She doesn't seem to follow the same model as many WS's. I honestly don't think it was a highly emotional EA involved with the PA so I don't think she is really going thru severe withdrawals, I could be wrong of course.

I think this is more along the lines of, "BS, I hate your guts and I am going to do whatever I want, no matter how much it hurts you because NO ONE is going to force ME to do ANYTHING. You no longer matter to me so I am free to do what I want. The more you call, email or try to be nice, the more you disgust me and sound pathetic."

That is the reason why I think I should let her call me, which despite the vitriol, she does, just to chat. She called yesterday afternoon from the beach with DS to tell me what they were up to and to let me know she had DS's phone in case I needed to talk to them. Yes, DS was with her, spoke to him briefly.

I am just confused...

Marshmallow,

yes I know POJA and mentioned it to her without using the words or intimating where I heard them. Just basically said we needed to agree together on everything and try to protect and care for each other.

She derided me and told me that sounded so sappy it made her sick.