Can a man "choose" to be in love? Does it make sense that a man can get caught up with the endorphins of a new relationship and become enamored but then pull back and make a conscious decision to slow things down? If so, then this may be an emotionally unavailable man fearing commitment, correct? And if that is the case, then why would this man continue in the relationship, claiming to want to be in a relationship but fearing the closeness?

I have been dating this man for about 14 months. I have been divorced about 2 years from an "unavailable" man suffering from considerable mental illnesses (bi-polar, severe anxiety, depression, etc). He was certainly unavaible to love me and participate in a marital relationship. After divorcing I dated a man for about 6 months who I later beleived to have a narcissistic personality disorder. He was TOTALLY unable to emote. The relationship was extremely painful and unbalanced. He had many of the surface qualities I was looking for, but yet he was certainly unable/unwilling to emotionally attach.

I was married 20 yrs to the mentally ill man and read many books to learn about why I stayed in the marriage that long. I learned much about myself and searched for answers as to why I chose "unavailable" men. AFter the 6 month relationship, I began dating my current BF. I was hyper-sensitive to NOT repeating my pattern. I watched his every move and my every move, constantly observing how the relationship was playing out. I did not want to be hurt yet again caring for someone who was unable to care for me.

I kept myself distant from him initially, although he pursued me with a vengeance. After a month or so of his calling & texting me daily, I went out with him. I knew from the start to be leary based on his long work hours (he owns restaurants and is either working or "on-call" much of the time). We began dating and I allowed him to continue to pursue me. I had vowed to never again be the one to do the chasing. After about 2 months of dating, much to my surprise I began to really like him and trust him. I saw many traits that were deeply important to me...more important than the type of work or education or family background someone had. He showed me a strong religious faith, honesty, integrity, and a positive outlook. We began to fall for each other.....

Then....I sensed his pulling away. Classic commit issues rooted in fear, according to my books. I discussed it with him and he denied it was about commitment, claiming it was about being busy and having work problems on his mind. He professed over and over that he wants to be with me, is not interested in anyone else, is working towards us being together.

I began to trust him and the relationship even though I had my own insecurities and fears which were rooted in my past relationships with men unable to love me. I was open and honest about my fears and he was a rock for me. He didn't leave the relationship even when I felt clingy and needy. I worked through a LOT during the course of our dating as our friendship grew and solidified.

BUT, I am at a point where I still do not understand his feelings for me. He says he is not "in love" with me because for him that means making a long term commitment. I believe he believes that loving me and allowing himself to be "in love" with me is only an option when he is ready to make long term plans. This is confusing and troubling to me. I can love him NOW even though I know that neither of us is ready/able to get married or commit to anything else right now. Is it possible he thinks he should not love me because it means he would be ogligated? We have already agreed that we are committed to the relationship in terms of dating exclusively and being open with each other about problems that arise, but I really don't understand this about not being able to love me.

I am so confused about what to do with this relationship. I want it to work, yet to some degree I feel he is not emotionally with me because of his keeping a distance from "love". It almost feels like we are now just "friends with benefits", and I feel like the relationship is at a standstill. We spend no more time together now than we did at the outset of the relationship (usually once a week due to our busy lives), although we talk at least once a day.

So...is it possible that he is aware of all of this and is able to choose the degree of feeling he has for me? Or is he simply unable to emotionally attach to me, in which case I should move on to a relationship where the feelings can be reciprocated? HOw do I know if he is ABLE to go further with his feelings, or if this is it? I am willing to address this issue, and I feel like I have broached these areas in gentle ways to see how much understanding he has. Should I keep discussing about this, or cut my losses and go? He has ALWAYS engaged in "relationship" talk with me, and I TRULY believe he cares about me and WANTS a meaningful relationship. I am just concerned that he has a significant problem in this area. He has told me over and over that I am everything he wants. If I want to continue with this, how would I facilitate his ability to open up and trust me with his feelings and emotions? Or how do I tell if it's a hopeless cause?

I'm really at a point where I need to decide if I should keep investing in him and the relationship. I am 46 and he is 49, so I don't want to invest any more years in something that is never going to be fulfilling. If this is as far as he can love, I know that it is not enough for me. I do not want to be "stuck" in a relationship that is destined to always be painful because he cannot love me on a deeper level. Any thoughts, opinions, or ideas would be very helpful. Thanks for reading!!

Hello, Cards.

It's good that you are so aware of your history, and you are wise to approach this relationship carefully. Hope you have a good therapist. He/she can help you evaluate your approach to this relationship, measuring against your previous ones to see whether you're really playing it differently. If he's 49, odds are that he's been married before. What do you know about that marriage? If the story you've gotten paints the ex-wife as the sole reason for the split, beware. Talk to people who've known your BF for years...history is the best predictor of the future.

Does a man "choose" to be in love? During the initial stages, it isn't much of a decision. Brain chemicals make it happen for both of you. Intellect kicks in later, and that's when real love can take root--when it isn't biochemically driven. You both make decisions to ACT love. It changes from a feeling to a verb. When we act love to each other, the feelings follow. (I say that with conviction from having lived it the past two years, long after our "feelings" of love had morphed into the typical American marriage where each partner "does his own thing" and finds themselves alienated. From there, it's a short slide to an affair, which brings the whole thing under a microscope. After that, you make it or you don't, but the plan Dr. Harley has put together for making any marriage work gives mutual, mature love the best recipe for longevity. If it works after infidelity, it should be even easier for you two.)

Why not order Dr. Harley's books, "His Needs, Her Needs," "Love Busters," and the workbook that goes with them (find them all on this website). If your BF is willing to work through the course with you, you will learn more about what each of you needs to do to give your relationship its best shot at success.

You have to decide if he's able to meet your most important emotional needs ("ENs" on this board). To do that, you need to clearly identify them, and discuss them together. The book will help you do that in a very concrete way. You seem to be meeting his needs, but it's got to be a two-way street. You're the one with the concerns, so don't jump in too deep without getting them addressed.

Best of luck to you.

I have a theory that I have expressed here a number of times based on one of the statistics that Harley includes in his Basic Concepts. I can't recall it exactly now (and I'm too lazy to go digging), but he states that women leave men far more often than men leave women. The ratio was something like 3 or 4 to 1. Maybe someone else can chime in with the exact numbers. The point is though, that there is a huge disparity in the ratio.

Given that his numbers are accurate, I suspect that as men get left over and over, we eventually become conditioned to it. Gun shy if you will... Men get a bad rap for being unable to commit. Really cynical women accuse us of acting like "dogs", or always just waiting for "something better to come along".

I don't think this is accurate, though it's understandable to see it that way. I think instead that men who don't commit do so out of fear of being left, yet again. It begins to seem to us that women are quicker to jump into a relationship, but they're also quicker to jump right back out.

I can obviously in no way know the mind of your BF, and I can't guess as to what is holding him back. Fourteen months certainly qualifies as reasonably long term relationship though and I personally find it odd that he can't or won't allow himself to commit to an ILY.

To answer your question more directly, I don't know if it's possible to choose to actually fall in love consciously (some here say that it is). Instead, I think that we can choose to allow ourselves to fall in love. If that makes sense. In other words, we can consciously choose to lower our barriers, to trust in ourselves and in our SOs, to accept our SO's love, and allow ourselves the freedom to reciprocate it.

In a way, it sounds a bit like your BF is in a kind of withdrawal. He's not allowing you to make enough deposits in his bank to allow himself to fall in love with you. I suspect one culprit is your limited time together. One day a week of face to face time just isn't enough.

There might be other external factors distracting him. No offense, but is it possible he's got another woman on the side?

Wow, if you find the answer, write the book and make millions!

People (both men and women) cool off after the newness of the relationship dies down. Then you can get a better idea what they will be like down the road. They will never revert back to the early days and likely anything that isn't looking great now (eg emotional availability) will only get worse. This is important to keep in mind. But something more disturbing in your story is this:

[/quote]BUT, I am at a point where I still do not understand his feelings for me. He says he is not "in love" with me because for him that means making a long term commitment. I believe he believes that loving me and allowing himself to be "in love" with me is only an option when he is ready to make long term plans. This is confusing and troubling to me. I can love him NOW even though I know that neither of us is ready/able to get married or commit to anything else right now. Is it possible he thinks he should not love me because it means he would be ogligated? We have already agreed that we are committed to the relationship in terms of dating exclusively and being open with each other about problems that arise, but I really don't understand this about not being able to love me. [quote]

Can you ask him what his definition of "in love" is? Because for me, this would be the dealbreaker right here. You have been together 14 months. This means you have both cooled off and are past the endorphins. It also means that you like each other enough to continue the relationship. But maybe on his side, this is all he needs. You clearly need more. I would need more.

The way I view it is that the relationship should always progress forward, as if it was destined to long term, until it hits a point like this where it stalls or your needs diverge. Even the first date fits this pattern - you wouldn't even go if you knew for certain there would be a second date and so on. He seems to have hit the point where he wants to go no further.

Thank you so much for responding. Yes, bf was married for 17 years. She had affairs which ultimately led to the divorce, but I am sure the underlying problems had to do with his business commitments and his possible lack of "availability" for her. He most likely was not attentive to her needs. He had lots of anger following their divorce and proceeded to bury himself into his work. He had not dated or had any relationships until he met me (not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing!...). I also see where his behaviors mirror his father's lifestyle, and although his dad did have a fling or tow, my bf never cheated on his wife. At some point following his divorce he became more heavily involved with church and a men's group, and then established a genuine relationship with God.

My bf and his family attend the same church as me our kids attend the same affiliated parochial school. I did not know him more than an acquaintance, but had mutual friends who attested to his character. He is an awesome man who works tirelessly and has been a devoted father and dedicated church and school volunteer.

I hear what you say about love and the requirements to keep it active. We talked at the beginning of our dating about relationships and what it will take to build a healthy relationship. We both agreed about honesty and expressing needs. And I actually had HN, HN when I was attempting to save my marriage. My (now) xh and I worked through the worksheets before realizing the severity of his issues and problems. For us it was impossible for him to meet any needs of mine. Anyway, that's a good suggestion to get the book again and see if he would be willing to work through it. Thanks!

Cards,
He sounds like a good man. Do the work and keep the faith. And don't worry about time running out. You're only 46. My H of nearly 40 years and I didn't get it right till AFTER his A two years ago. He was nearly 60 at the time!
Right Here

Thanks,Seabird...Interesting statistic, and I am certain that much of Bf's fear is rooted in how his marriage ended. I am sure trust is a HUGE factor for him. I think I am sensitive to that and knew from the beginning that it would possibly be a bit of time before he would trust me enough to let down some of his walls. I have been by his side and supported him during some pretty tough business times in the past few months. I have expressed my desires and needs for time for this relationship, and I have also been forgiving and patient when he has had to break plans due to work issues. IMO I have demonstrated that I am trustworthy and that I don't run at the first sign of challenge or problem.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that people can CHOOSE to allow their needs to be met and CHOOSE to allow themselves to be loved. I think this is exactly what is happening. I think he is still fearful and is not ALLOWING me to love him.....I actually told him that exact thing the other night. Which is when he basically said that he can't love because he can't make any long term plans at this point.

External factors....yes, work. OTher women, absolutely not. I agree with you that the only way to continue to build on a relationship is by putting into it with time and meeting each others' needs. As far as time together, we do have a standing date for Wednesday, and then try to spend time together on the weekends, especially the weekends when we don't have kids. It's really a tough time in our lives to find time with kids and jobs and houses. I believe he is putting in to the best of his ability, yet I fear that his "block" to further his feelings could be the death of this relationship. How do I get him to acknowledge and work on this?

Tabby, I agree with your response, and I do think his emotional needs are less. I am so torn because I do think I can love this man....yet he is not allowing me. I guess it could be that some people need less, but don't you think every human being inherently wants and needs to be loved? I suspect that early in our relationship when he began to maybe feel he was falling in love, that it became painful on some level.....that he was starting to feel the joy of love, but then became scared because of the fear of maybe having to feel the pain as well....

I don't know....

I'd like to think we can get threw this, but I don't know that I can endure the pain of once again trying to love someone that cannot love me back. That's my dilemma....and maybe only until I leave the relationships can he be able to decide if he should push himself to explore his feelings on this...

Thanks again for writing!

Maybe this man is just not into you....

You have baggage, he has baggage. Maybe your baggage does not mesh with his!

A man is not going to fall in love with a woman he is not well matched with. He knows you are troubled now since you used him as a counselor to help you through.

Maybe it would have been better for you to have used a paid professional counselor and kept your troubles out of this new relationship. But at least the man knows who he is dealing with now....and what lurks inside your personality.

No one is perfect, but your flaws have to meld with his flaws for you both to fall in love. Otherwise he would be crazy to fall in love with you, he knows how difficult marriage is. I think he is seeing and observing you and you are not his cup of tea beyond a friend or a friend with benefits. Have you two talked marriage yet?

I suspect that early in our relationship when he began to maybe feel he was falling in love, that it became painful on some level.....

Maybe he was in pain when you started using him as a free counselor for your problems. Perhaps he was dissapointed and in pain because he did not want a woman who needed a free counselor....and he was hoping for so much more from you!

Did he start pulling away as you were talking to him about how all the other men abused you, were crazy, were insane and mentally ill, were unavailable etc??? Yet, with these insane men, you married them and had children with them anyway!! You did not see thier insanity?

So, you are a newly healing human being and probably not yet ready to jump into a permanent relationship. If you break up with him try and get some help to heal. You are precious and deserve to dump some of your baggage before embarking on a permament relationship.

I was open and honest about my fears and he was a rock for me. He didn't leave the relationship even when I felt clingy and needy. I worked through a LOT during the course of our dating as our friendship grew and solidified.

He may have seen this and wanted to run. But being a kind "father type" caring man he did not run. So, instead, he put you in the FRIEND category in his mine. Instead of the ROMANCE category. At this point, you are not one he wants to fall in love with or stay with forever or marry someday. He has ruled that out due to many things. he may not even know why he has ruled it out. Usually people know after a few months if they are in love, longer if you only see each other once a week.

What do you want from this man?

For him to be in love with you leading to a permanent relationship? Something leading to marriage so you dont have to date anymore>? A father for your children?

He has told me over and over that I am everything he wants

I am sure you are everything he wants! RIGHT NOW!

He wants this friends with benefits lifestyle with you. Anything deeper or more serious he does not want WITH YOU. RIGHT NOW.

It sounds like you want a relationship that is loving and "going somewhere deep and permanent". If you did not want this, you would be fine with this WEEKEND, FRIENDS WITH BENEFITS thing that he is liking right now.

So, admit it, you want a permanent relationship, right? And he is saying he cannot give this to you, right? This is the bottom line as I see it.

Did you tell him all about your troubled relationships? WEll, if you had to do that, it means to him, that you ARE NOT READY to be in relationship with him. If you picked bad men so far, even crazy men, to be married to most of your life, this normal man is wondering about you.

I think this man does not want to be linked permanently to a woman who has not had time alone enough to heal from previous relationships.

Probably most people inherently want to be loved, but everybody expresses and receives love in different ways. How you want to receive love may not be his natural way to express it and vice versa. Perhaps he became scared or perhaps he has come to realize that it is an effort for him to express love in the way you want to receive it. Or, perhaps you are reading too much into this? Have you actually spoken to him about this?

Hmm...

I didn't use him as a free counsellor. I recognized my own issues and dealt with them on my own, but as they affected our relationship I was open and honest about how I was feeling and why. After having been in a loveless marriage for a long time it is a difficult thing to date and try to understand all the feelings associated with a new relationship. We were both new at all of this. He had not been in a relationship or had not even dated for the 7 or 8 years since his divorce. We both had hurts and fears to face.

No, I don't believe he pulled away due as a result of my marriage. We talked all about both of our marriages when first were dating. As far as my past...my xh did not exhibit signs of depression until a few years into our marriage. It was not until we had kids that it became apparent that there were more serious issues and disorders to deal with.

Yes, I admit to being a "work in progress"...we all are. And yes, I do want a permanent and healthy partnership with someone at some point. I readily admit that. Yes, it could be that all he wants is a "friendship", but then why wouldn't he simply admit to that when asked? That's why I am confused. When I have directly asked him what he wants from the relationship, he says he wants to be with me but that he doesn't know what the future will be. Why would he say he wants a committed relationship and to date exclusively if he only wants to be friends?

Yes, Tabby. I do tend to analyze....I don't like gray very well, but I realize most things about life are gray.

I have the book "The 5 Languages of Love" where it discusses the different ways in which we give and receive love. It's an excellent book and I recognize that he gives me "love" by acts of service. I have tried to give him "love" in the way he can receive it.

Thanks for all your thoughts and ideas!

a lonely man is never going to tell you that all he wants is a friends with benefits arrangement. he knows that if he admitted that, you'd end the arrangement immediately. he knows you are husband hunting. the only guys who will admit to wanting friends with benefits are the man whores who don't care whether you go away or not

i say he is lonely because he didn't date anybody for seven years after a divorce caused by his xw's adultry. i'm sure he likes having a woman stroke his ego for the first time in years. it is also quite possible that he does want something long term with you but is not capable of expressing that in a way that meets your need for "connection"

this is pure speculation based on limited information but my guess is that he has trust issues... won't open up because he had been hurt too many times like seacoin touched on earlier in the thread

otoh, there something to be said about the facts that he has a good job, is a church man and is obviously not a "player"

i know your biological stopwatch is clicking but maybe if you spent more time together he would learn to trust you enough to let his guard down and express the feelings he is holding in?

Thanks for the ideas Charlie..

Actually I'm not "husband hunting". I have 3 teenagers and it will be 4 years before all my kids are off to college. I have zero intentions of getting married and blending families with my kids before that time. Yes, I would like a stable, loving, healthy, monogomous relationship. Not bragging, but I am told I am beautiful, have a great figure, and am usually guessed at being 5-10 years younger. The point is, I am not young but I can and do attract dates.

The points you made were very insightful, and I agree that he has trust issues & is/was somewhat lonely, although he barely has time for a "relationship". He spent the last few years immersing himself into his work. I respect him in so many ways, and I think we have the basis of a great relationship, I just get fearful of my own vulnerabilities. I am sometimes concerned that after that long without dating that he should date many women to see what works for him (we have talked about this and he is not interested in dating others).

Yes, I think time together is imperative in which to build a relationship but he is dictating that with his work. I am having trouble discerning if he is "using" work as a way to avoid intimacy and closeness.

How does a person get beyond trust issues? Do you think that naturally over time and within a honest relationship the trust problems simply dissipate? Or, is additional work and counselling necessary in order to get beyond it? I am sure that every person is different and there are no cookie-cutter answers, but I am working on this relationship and simply need some positive signs.

Thanks!

like i said earlier, i'm just making some guesses here, so take this all with a grain of salt but don't you think that if he could date many women he would? lonely guys are lonely because they don't have the ability to communicate

normal people get ego boosts from the opposite sex or friends or whatever... a lonely guy doesn't have those options but he can do well at work and boost his ego that way

this guy probably loves you more than he is capable of expressing

problem is, i don't know how to fix that. i am the same kind of guy. i'd imagine counseling to weed out some FOO issues may help but he'd have to be willing to work on it

since you aren't "husband hunting" you have time to work with him but please don't go on one of those female crusades to change your man... if he wants to change than you have the makings of a good relationship. if he doesn't and you don't want a LTR with a guy who can't communicate then...

EDIT: In reference to the trust issues, I don't think it's possible to even guess because you don't know what has caused him to be unable to communicate. If a counselor can figure what that issue is, you can work to tear down his wall as Pink Floyd likes to put it.

cardsonly, I am not sure I understand the basic issue, so maybe you could clarify a couple of things for me. You say that you suspect he only wants a "friend with benefits," which I agree with. That seems pretty obvious to me. He has made it clear he wants no more than that. But what I don't understand is that you admit you don't want a commitment either, so what is the issue? He is not committed, you are not committed. He has no desire for intimacy, only sex. If someone is in a relationship for the sex, that can often preclude their desire to be truly intimate, IMO.

You are both, admittedly, freeloaders [not a negative connotation when defining a dating situation, most daters ARE by definition] and not buyers, so it shouldn't be expected that you will do anything to maintain a house you don't own.

[sidebar: Dr Harley claims that he was a freeloader when he was dating Joyce. She DUMPED HIM. Suddenly, he became a BUYER when he realized the house was not for RENT, only for SALE. She raised the bar and said, no freeloaders need appply]

Now, if you did want a committment and a husband, I would point out that this man is not a buyer,[NOW] so if that was your goal, you would want to move on. He is a freeloader or renter, at best. And that is OK as long your house is for RENT and not for SALE. If you are FOR SALE and are only interested in buyers, then he is not your guy. [AS HE IS NOW, that is]

Have you told this man about your own infidelity in your past? Is he fully aware of your past?