Yes, send your husband here.

He can learn how to put his best effort into the marriage.

And he deserves to get the help and support we can give to help him cope with what you did to him.

You owe him at least that much.

Are you referring to your betrayed husband as the person who has hurt YOU greatly?

Do you know that your husband is in no way shape or form responsible for your poor choice to cheat as an answer to your unhappiness in your marriage. That was YOUR choice. There were other choices, but you made the choice to particpate in adultery.

As far as him hurting you greatly, do you know that Harley tells us the destructive affects of adultery on a betrayed spouse are similar to rape, or worse than death of a child. Harley has years of experience with studying infidelity and writes that being betrayed IS one of the worse experiences one can endure.

Harley also tells us that the wayward spouse (you) owes the betrayed spouse (your husband) compensation for the betrayal. How do you plan to compensate him for the hurt that you've caused him?

You are very lucky your husband is open to letting you back into his life, make no mistake about it. If you really want to build a NEW marriage then make a marriage coaching appointment with Steve Harley. Otherwise, cut your husband loose so he can find someone who will love, honor and cherish such a good man.

God Bless,
Jo

wil,

It is quite apparent to me that you have been viewing other people not as people, but as objects.

Objects that were there to meet your needs. When they meet your needs, then they meet your approval. You like them, and you do things for them. When they don't meet your needs, you look down at them and criticize them. The criticism in turn justifies your poor treatment of them.

Case in point? Your BH. Somewhere along the line, he failed to meet your needs, so you wrote him off in many ways. You began to see him as an object, a mere "thing" in the world. You began to criticize him and his weaknesses, blew all of his faults way out of proportion. Then, you began to see yourself as above him - much too good for him, and deserving of something better than him, because - well....look at him! He just does not match you at all, does he? He is definitely not someone who meets your needs, doesn't contribute what you have contributed, has he? As you began to criticize him, you began to inflate yourself at the same time. You saw yourself as working harder in the relationship (but you WEREN'T!), working harder to communicate (but you WEREN'T!), and working harder to save the marriage (but you WEREN'T!).

Ultimately, you felt you were entitled to an affair.

So your AP is SO VERY MUCH BETTER than your husband, and after all, your husband has NEVER BEEN what you set out to marry. Really, he hasn't been. From the words "I DO", it hasn't been what you really wanted. He has not one single time been what you entered the marriage for. He hasn't been the one to tickle those love buds. But your OM, well, now HE is the one?????

Get real. You didn't feel this way about your husband until you betrayed YOURSELF. You KNEW having an affair with the OM was wrong. And up until that decision was made, you were talking yourself OUT OF DOING IT. There was a strong voice in your OWN HEAD saying, "Do not do this. It is wrong, and you will hurt your husband, he loves you, and you will not be able to undo this very wrong decision." But you went against that voice, and you betrayed yourself. But once that decision was made, and you BETRAYED YOURSELF, BETRAYED YOUR INNERMOST SELF, BETRAYED YOUR INNERMOST MORALS, your husband was NO LONGER the fine, good, decent, loving man. Nope. All you saw after that was someone to criticize and condemn.

Because in the moment you betrayed yourself, he became the scapegoat for your justification.


Because in order to justify what you were doing, it had to change. Your husband had to be the bad guy - because to justify what you were doing as "right, good, and satisfying" for YOU, he just HAD to bad. So you began to see only the bad things, the wrong things, the things you didn't like in him.

You made him into an object, nothing more. Not a person, but an object to meet your own selfish needs - and used his human faults to justify your behavior.

Because you betrayed YOURSELF first, and then betrayed your husband, using his faults to justify your moral indecency.

That is the reality here.


The other man is NOT better than your husband. You have colored it that way, because it is the only way you can live with what you have done. The OM is a person who has betrayed himself, his wife, his children, and YOU. And chances are, he lied to you. He lies to his wife every single day. There's a wonderful guy - right? Don't you want a man like that? A real catch, that one. Remember these words: He will bring to his next marriage the exact same behaviors and problems that he has in his current marriage, because he blames everything on his wife - and your plan is to be the wife.......



Call it the "fog", call it denial, call it whatever you want. But that is the truth.



Once you stop contacting the other man, and you inform his wife of what has happened, apologized to her for your role in the destruction of her relationship, and set yourself back on the path of what you KNOW IS THE RIGHT PATH, you will begin to wipe away the dust of the bomb you set off in your life.

Marriage Builders can help you and your husband recover from the fallout.


You can listen to the 2X4's here, and learn from them. You should read the website and understand the basic concepts of the Harleys, because they work - for both spouses. I understand that right now you fully believe you loved the OM, and you probably don't want his wife to find out. Somehow you feel a need to protect the OM. But inside of you, look for a bigger self - and consider that his wife is a person who deserves to know the truth of her own life and marriage. The only way she can possibly fix the problems in her life and marriage is to know the truth of it - and you know that truth. Doesn't she deserve to know it, too?

SB

Maybe you think that other man relationship you had was LOVE or at least showed you what being in LOVE was. Well, I hate to break it to you but that was not LOVE. Do you know why?

1. Because real LOVE lasts forever and your quick friendship/flirting/kissing and boinking this other man could not last since he was married and you were married. So it was not real lOVE.

2. Because real LOVE does harm to NO ONE> Your relationship. adultery/ with this other creep DID do harm, it harmed you, the other man, his wife and faMily and your husband (at least so far, there may be more) So, because of the harm done, this was not real LOVE.

3. REAL LOVE helps others, and aids in people living in peace and happiness. Yours was not real LOVE.

4. Whatever lust you felt for the other man, it had nothing to do with LOVE, real LOVE. So you cannot compare it with REAL TRUE LOVE nor can you say your marriage is lacking LOVE like that because that was NOT real LOVE in any way shape or form. It was fornication or lust or __________blanking blank.

I do not know who is going to teach you what real LOVE is or if you have to learn it on your own or if you even want to know what real LOVE is. But your kissing/flirting with/boinking that other creep was NOT real LOVE.

I was emotionally closed off, too - I neglected meeting my wife's needs and anaesthesized myself with an obsessive hobby. Entirely my fault... but I think I was afraid of real intimacy, just as you may be.


Two thoughts... Firstly, please recognize that you are not the only one who has the challenge of opening up and being vulnerable again to someone who has hurt them greatly. Your husband must do the same thing, because you have hurt him greatly, whether he displays it or not. Many men do not wear their emotions on their sleeves... but they feel them none the less.

Secondly... this all starts with a decision you make. When I was faced with a wife who wanted to leave... I made a decision to change. I made a decision to stop Love Busting and start meeting her ENs. But I also made a decision to be open and honest with her, and that made me vulnerable. And I never felt so vulnerable as when I admitted to her the truth about why I'd lost my job two years earlier - not because my company lost a contract, but because of my obsessive hobby...

Making that decision, to be honest, open and vulnerable, was essential in developing the relationship we now have. It's scary... but anything really worthwhile means going beyond your "comfort zone".

And nothing on earth feels better than having a spouse who knows all your flaws and weaknesses and everything about yourself you wish no-one would ever know... and loves you just the same.

whatislove,

I have not posted in months and hardly come here anymore but I had to reply to your post. Our stories are different but I can very much relate to some of your feelings. Where we differ I was very much in love with my stbx when we got married. He was not abusive but he always put himself first most of our marriage and my opinion did not count for much of anything. Taking that kind of behavior especially for years can lead to a lot of resentment.


If you want your marriage to work you have to tear that wall down. By the time my stbx was willing to make those changes I was so filled with anger and resentment toward him I did not give a damn what he did as long as he left me alone. I did not give him an inch even though he tried so hard. For all intents and purposes we were nothing more than roommates and I was married to my career. I had become the female version of him except I was a lot worse. That is no way to live. Back then I had the same line of thinking you did overall he is a good guy and someone I can get career advice from and take to parties and family functions. I am not telling you anything you don’t already know. That kind of marriage does not work. I ended up betraying my stbx in the worst possible way and our marriage is completely destroyed. No chance of reconciliation what so ever. I will always have that huge regret of not making the marriage work when I had the chance.

You still have a chance. From what I read your husband is willing to save the marriage? I read that Dr. Harley recommends spending 15 hours a week together as a couple. Use that time to reconnect. Once you start meeting each others EN you could quite possibly fall in love with him for real and not have those nagging doubts in the back of your mind. You have everything to gain especially if both are willing.

Brooke

TJ/

Brooke! How are you? Can you give us an update?

/TJ

princessmeggy,

Do you mind if I e-mail you? I don't want to hijack this thread and there is always some kind of back lash on me when I update.

Brooke

WIL,

I have been puzzling about what to actually say to you. It was clear to me that I had a lot I wanted to say. Much of which others have already said.

I find it interesting that you feel your H did not meet your needs and yet you said
Which suggests that you have never committed to this marriage. It means as someone has already said that you were a renter, that expected that somehow your H would be so stupid as to not know you were not committed to him and thus fill your needs while you failed to be committed to the marriage much less to meeting your H's needs.

My bet is that your H is far more sensitive than you are and was/is well aware that you were not committed to him. THus, you go the actions you sought from him. You see if you really wanted him to fill your needs you would not have behaved as you state you did.

You also say that on the whole he was not someone you really cared for, but you married anyway. Were you really that desperate for male companionship? Perhaps so, given that you hand an affair with a married man who could communicate so well with you, but not communicate to his W that he was a liar and a cheat. Perhaps it was because you weren't bothered by his being with a liar and a cheat whereas his W might have been bothered by his choices and actions.

You also said
Exactly how would you describe someone who decided to cheat on her H rather than expressing how she felt? I would say low moral fiber. And he would trust your promise to him that you will not contact why? You also made promises when you married right??

Finally you asked if you could love your H. And the odd but true answer is yes you can. You "loved" OM and yet he was the lowest of the low. He cheated on his W, he failed his children, he had no problem lying to them, and I will bet you are not and will not be his last "conquest". He even risked his future by having an affair with the W of an employee, thus risking his families well being. Nice guy, and yet you loved him right?

Well if you can love a loser like OM, you sure can love your H.

How?? Well, actually it is right in front of your face and is clearly within the quotes I have already posted to you.

Do you know how many affairs begin?? Probably not. It is not by someone DOING something for someone else that meets that someone elses needs. It is by meeting the needs of the someone else.

I wish I had a dollar for the many WS' that have come here and stated "I did not set out to have an affair. He/she was having problems and needed someone to listen to them and offer advice. I helped him/her with some marriage issues, and the next thing I know I am having strong feelings for this person, and then we started being together, and then the EA turned into a PA."

It happens over and over. Now guess why you never felt love for your H (not really true but is true now)? REad the first quote of yours. You never tried. You never put effort into the marriage, you never did as those people did that I just mentioned, Listened, talked, met needs, helped, etc. That is what builds love, that is what loving really is. It is not feelings, those come later. Love is a verb and reread what I put in quotes.

Do you want to love your H??? Then start to integrate yourself into his life. Start to do what you avoided doing when you go married and you will start to see changes in your H, and his behavior toward you. You already know he loves you or this marriage would be over, dead, gone, finished. It is not, and it is because of HIM, not you.

Reread CC's story and notice how his change in actions changed things. But, If you really notice you will see that he is more deeply in love with his W now than he was, why? HE made the effort and while it changed his W, it changed him as well.

You are clearly still in the fog. You will come out of it as you continue to not have any contact with OM. However, coming out of it does not save your marriage, it merely gives you a chance to get it right this time. Love is action, and loving actions leads to love on the part that makes them as well as on the part of the person receiving them.

Do a lot of reading here and ask lots of questions. You control your own fate here, time to take responsibility for it.

God Bless,

JL

Hey everybody-else but Whatislove

Help me out here. Quite a lot of folk have expressed that Whatislove is in a fog. Explain to me how????

As I see it, she has taken the time to come to MB. Would a foggy WS do this? Especially when she had already indicated leaning to vacate the marriage.

She has recognised the fact that she has done everyone dirt. Well I'm sure that WS do that. But do foggy WS weigh up the validity of their emotions?

Possibly she does not realise the full impact of what her husband has and is experiencing. But does a foggy WS acknowledge this?

Further, does a foggy WS take a stranger's testimony and give it thoughtful consideration, eg. Cuthbert Calculus...

I'm going have to lean on you vets for answers....


PS whatislove: Please clarify -Was the PA sexual?

The "fog" takes time to clear. Whatislove has, as far as I can tell, ended the affair not too long ago. It takes time for it to clear.

I'm glad she's come here. In my opinion, the fog manifests itself in two ways in her case:

1.) the idealization of the affair partner. She had nothing but good things to say about him, while others have pointed out how he entered the affair without thinking of the consequences to his own wife and children. One especially foggy comment was when she said that the OM takes his marriage vows seriously. Once the fog clears, I'm sure she will look back and wonder what she was thinking to have written that.

2.) the idea that she has never loved her husband. This may or may not be true, but I'm willing to bet that once she has been apart from the affair partner for a month or so, with NO CONTACT, she may well feel differently. I've seen a lot of Waywards come here saying they've never loved their spouse, then changing their tune as they get thru affair withdrawal and the fog clears. Chances are whatislove may discover this to be true in her case, too.

In my opinion, being in the fog is simply part of the fact that her affair ended so recently. I am glad that she has come here, and very happy to hear she gave my story thoughtful consideration. I hope she continues posting because I believe she is looking for the way out of the fog. But once she really is out of the fog, I think she will feel differently about both her OM and her BH.

Imagine,

""Please clarify -Was the PA sexual?""

PA = Physical Affair as in touching of bodies, exchanging bodily fluids, etc.

EA = Emotional Affair - no (supposedly) touching of bodies. More communication, texting, emails, intense friendship, flirtation..or worse.

When we say PA, sexual is usually understood.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

kirk

For Krusht
I needed to establish beyond all doubt that What had definitely understood that a PA did not have to include coitus.

Cuthbert

I take your point about the OM "taking his vows seriously"
Thanks!
Nevertheless, she seems more together than the run of the mill WW. Comment?

I agree - I think any WW who comes here is more together than most WWs.

Nevertheless, there is still fog, and it is acting as a stumbling block for her. I think her stated belief that she never loved her husband in the first place makes her feel like there is nothing to build back up. I am convinced, though, that once she is fully withdrawn from OM and the fog is gone, that she will feel differently.

And, even if she doesn't change her mind about that, even if she really never did love her husband... there is still no reason in the world why she cannot fall in love with him for the first time if she fully commits to the marriage.

Hi everyone,

First, let me express my gratitude to you all for keeping up with this post, and continuing to help me through this. I am new to the site get a little confused with the navigation (jumping from one forum/thread to next, not keeping track of what I’ve already read, etc.); I’m impressed that you all remembered me and come back to give me your feedback-thank you!

On to answer some of your questions:

Was the PA sexual?
Yes, it did not involve the act itself, but involved other acts and was leading up to it. We were only alone together (privately) on 2 occasions, but was on its way to progressing, even though we both felt bad about just our first kiss and knew we should stop.

In the fog or not?
Perhaps still a little foggy, since it is still fairly recent, although I don’t know if I will feel differently eventually or not. I don’t think I’m “rewriting history to justify affair”, as I’ve felt this way all along…it is nothing new. I know I’ve never “fell in love” with my BH…I don’t recall him filling my love bank to that point. I know I love him because of the person he is, but I think that is more of the platonic type. I don’t feel that I’ve ever gotten my ENs met by him (again, my fault for not expressing them), but that is why I posed the question earlier…how most of us “fall in love” early on in relationships without having to pinpoint and express our needs?? It just happens. Then, as is the case of most people on this site, life happens, we lose touch with each other, take each other for granted, etc…then have realize we need to express those ENs.

If your spouse never did that to the point you can recall being “in love”, then has it ever been a romantic relationship, or just a living situation? Most of the posters on this site have had solid foundations in their “house of love”. Over the years, some replacement of wood rot is necessary, some renovating is necessary, perhaps a new paint job, but underneath it all, that foundation is still strong and the house has “good bones” to work around. I don’t feel we have that foundation or those good bones. But perhaps we have a decent enough site on which to build…I feel I can only start from scratch at this point. I have let him know what my ENs are, and will work to satisfy his, and we’ll see what happens.

Perhaps it’s fog babble, but I feel the OP truly felt remorseful about abandoning his vows…he had tears in his eyes when he said it…it wasn’t just a line, to perhaps see how I would react. We actually both agreed we’d stop it after we kissed, and go back to normal, but then it progressed and would have kept progressing. We didn’t want to ruin our relationships…our spousal relationships, his working relationship with my BH, and our friendships with each other. He truly did seem to be torn emotionally about the situation. We both knew there was so much to lose, but somehow it did not stop.

I admit I took the easy way out of this by not communicating my ENs. I started writing a letter to my hubby, but there was so much going on in our life at the time (he just moved to take a new job, I stayed where I was to get the house fixed up and ready for sale, I moved, started a new job, we bought a new house…all within a few months!) So, the time we’ve had has been spent on these things and not on relationship stuff. Funny, how life works out…it’s still pretty stressful (in fact, a family member took his life last week), but now we’re finding time to work on these issues. I guess at least now he realizes how serious the situation is, where he might have blown it off before.

My BH is a very good guy, but has been extremely disrespectful, critical, negative, verbally abusive, controlling, etc. throughout the years. I’ve not stood up for myself (effectively, at least) and recently figured out that I can’t take it anymore. His treatment has eroded my self confidence and image, and made me doubt my own abilities.

During this transition period, I read “A New Earth” by Eckart Tolle, who so effortlessly describes the ego and its basis in human behavior. I thought that I just needed to take a step back and look at him differently, that it was his ego talking and not really him. I thought “He is who he is, will prob. not change, and I just have to look at the situation differently and change my own behaviors”. I thought my new perspective would be enough, but obviously it wasn’t. It is very easy to turn away from someone who seems to be always criticizing you and expressing their disappointment in you and has a scowl on their face to someone who is positive and uplifting and is always beaming at you with the biggest smile and the brightest eyes when they see you. I obviously was not smart or strong enough to deal with this the right way…

Could someone please direct me to Cuthbert’s success story? I tried to open it via the Success Stories link, but the page couldn’t be displayed. I tried doing a search for it, to no avail (again, a newbie!).

Thank you all, again, for your feedback, and to Imagine, for thinking that I’m “more together” than the run of the mill WW (although I would think we’re pretty much all the same, but I have a lot to learn). I hope that by studying this site, I can answer my question “what is love”? to try and make something good out of my current one or know what I need to know for the next time.

Thanks again,
whatislove

Here is my story to start with. I'm not sure how much is directly applicable to you, although I believe that if my wife had gone thru with an affair with her ex-boyfriend, she would probably have also believed that she never loved me to start with. But, of course, there is no way to know that.

I think that you ought to read Just Learning's post very carefully, though... he had some VERY insightful things to say - I'm thinking specifically about how your lack of commitment to the marriage was very likely recognized by your husband, and probably drove him to withdraw as well... and how you develop loving feelings not by sitting back and waiting for your ENs to be met, but by meeting ENs yourself. I found that out in real life - when my focus was on myself, and my needs, my wife was unhappy - and so was I. When I found out about my wife's unhappiness, my focus shifted so suddenly toward meeting HER needs and making HER happy. And it's been there ever since, because I've found that focusing on meeting her needs makes us BOTH much happier, and has made for a very close and very solid relationship.

As for the fog... I'll make you a bet. You stay away from OM for a couple of months... and work at trying to meet one or two of your husband's ENs on a regular basis... and see how you feel about your husband and your marriage. I guarantee you will feel quite differently than you do now...

WIL,

You said something I thought I would comment on. You said
People don't often change who they are at their core. What they OFTEN change is their perspective on things. You say your H is very good guy. This suggests that at heart he IS a good guy.

So what is with the critical, controlling , etc. behavior???

Want some guesses?? Thank you I will offer you a few.

1. He is pretty insecure, and from what you have said he has reason to be insecure when it comes to you. Your on stated behavior before the A makes him insecure about your commitment.

2. He wants to change things in the marriage but does not have the tools or know how to do so.

3. He needs feedback that his approach does not work, but he needs more. He needs feedback on what will work.

This last point is more complex than you might imagine. If it is true, he not only needs feedback, he needs YOU to model the behavior you want from him to him. He needs to feel secure in this relationship. Your list of his characteristics strongly suggests he is aware that he does not please you. I am sure you have indicated this before, and your A sure did indicate it now.

The point of this??? You have more to build on than you think, but YOU have to take some steps toward him and show him, not just tell him what you need in an H. Please do the reading on this site, it will help you alot. You have no idea the power you have over your H, you have just squandered it to date. If you change he will change.

Read CC's thread and you will see how powerfully CC changed his marriage. It (the story) and CC are very impressive. Listen to him.

God Bless,

JL

This is the first time I have posted here, although I have been reading the MB discussion forum avidly for more than a couple of months.

I just wanted to say that the way Whatislove describes how she experienced the behaviour of her BH during her marriage and affair, reminded me strongly of how I used to feel about my BH too - he seemed critical, ungenerous, bad-tempered and rude. I eventually came to the conclusion that it must be his natural temperament (although he had - and has - infinite patience and gentleness with our children). I couldn´t ever imagine having fun and a giggle with him, or even confiding my worries about things without a negative nagging response.
However, after Dday (I had a PA, I am ashamed to say) in May this year, I was amazed to discover how wrong I was. We have talked and talked, explored the MB site, and he has become gentle, emotional, patient, kind - everything I thought he could never be. I can´t even begin to express how much admiration I have for him, and all the badness and wrongness of my past behaviour seems doubly shocking to me.

Now I realise that a lot of his unpleasantness came from that instinctive feeling he had that I didn´t love him, I didn´t show much affection and especially after the EA/PA started, I stepped back emotionally even more. I wasn´t really aware of my behaviour, just of his reaction to it - which I saw as an excuse for continuing down the same track.

He also sees that his critical irritable attitude to me was a repeated LB, and he has learnt a lot from this place about that too.

I feel sure that if Whatislove could bring her BH to this site, and let him read it, and if they could talk about all of this and do the ENs, she would be surprised at how he would change and how they would grow together.


I might not be able to visit here for a while, as I´m away for a month, but I will try to follow this thread and will be hoping for things to improve for Whatislove and her BH.

Not a vet but there is very little in that original post that is NOT fog. Some examples:





Sounds a lot like my WstbxH - undercurrents of ILYBNILWY, we don't click, and AP is a soulmate.

Thank you, Barbara 46 for sharing your story and for the inspiration!

Your “confiding my worries without negative nagging response” quote struck a chord with me. Seems that the times I’ve tried to confide in my BH his reply ends up being an attack on me. Sometimes he’ll say “that stinks” or “I’m sorry” if I vent about work or my family or whatever, but many times there is character assassination involved…the situation or how I feel about it comes back to be my fault, eventually.

I thought perhaps I was struggling with depression before, but thought maybe it was the R that was making me feel that way, so I started keeping a tally of the days I didn’t feel good, and the negative things he said or did. One example of those that I’d like your opinion on:

We had a large maple tree in the back of our truck that we had to unload and bring to the house. We had contractors working on the house outside; one of them asked if we needed any help. My H replied “No, thanks, she needs the exercise”, and laughed. The reasons why this bothered me, and still does: One is that he is just as overweight (15-20 lbs.) as I am, so he was rather hypocritical with this comment. The other reason is that when I brought this up to him recently (after D-day), he replied that I should grow a thicker skin and not be so sensitive, that it was said in a joking manner and he didn’t mean anything by it. He says I should have retorted back to him something like “Hey, fatass, you sure are one to talk!”. Unfortunately, this “tit for tat” thing is not in my nature. I told him I thought a better comment from him would have been “No thanks, we need the exercise”…am I wrong for thinking this? Can I even consider living my life with someone who thinks the “tit for tat” way when I don’t?

Yes, my BH is aware of the site. We have filled out our EN questionnaires…I read his while in his presence (although I didn’t learn anything new…I knew he needed more SF…but told him it’s hard to want to be intimate with someone who is so nasty to you; he replied that he wouldn’t be nasty if he got more SF…I replied that it’s obviously a vicious cycle that we have to work on).

I started filling out my EN questionnaire after we read his; in the meantime he went off and did housework. I told him I was done with it and it was on his nightstand. He didn’t look at it (saying the questionnaire was “dumb”…that he already knew I needed him to be nicer to me and show me affection). I should have taken the initiative that he didn’t and made him sit with me while we read it anyway I unearthed it this morning from being buried underneath other papers and will share with him the details he didn’t care to learn about.

It took him a while to see that this EA/PA wasn’t just a physical attraction to his boss/friend that we couldn’t control. He thinks we just lusted after each other from the beginning and couldn’t keep our hands off each other when we got the chance alone together. Since reading from this site, he can understand that he wasn’t filling my ENs and someone else did. He can understand how I’ve emotionally distanced myself from him b/c of the way he’s treated me and about the factors that push and pull us into As. But I think he thinks this is mostly my problem, that I’m the one that needs to go to therapy, that I need to stop reading self help/relationship books and talk about and work on our relationship.

He knows what my LBs are…one of his latest is saying “That’s stupid” to something I say, or suggest, and leaving it at that, basically saying “that’s stupid…end of story…let’s move on”. I told him that when he says that, it makes me feel he’s saying I’m stupid, that he’s right and I’m wrong…and it’s also the manner in which he says it…very matter-of-fact and critical, with no explanation to back it up. And he doesn’t even let me explain my side. Well, he said it last night, I brought it to his attention, he explained why he said it, and then I totally withdrew. I actually wanted to be intimate with him, but I felt back to square one as I feel that things on his side prob. won’t change.

Like I said before, I’ve been reading up on relationships for a while now. Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay by Mira Kirshenbaum says I should leave. She says if things were never really good, they most unlikely ever be good in the future. The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by John Gottman suggests that our M is headed toward divorce. Our conversations have harsh startups, no repair attempts, he doesn’t accept my influence (my opinion has never mattered for much), etc. It is frustrating as I know he has a good heart underneath it all, and he does show his love for me, just not in the ways that I need.
I read somewhere on this site (I think) a good quote: Leaving a marriage without trying to repair it first is like buying high and selling low. Better to see how good you can make it, then look at it and ask: is this good enough?

So, even though I don’t feel it’s ever been good…perhaps I can “fall in love for the first time” like CC mentioned. Will continue expressing myself and working to fill his ENs and let you know how it goes.

Thanks again for all your input.


Tabby 1: I(think I) mentioned that perhaps I'm still a little foggy, but have thought this way about BH from beginning.
Voice in my head told me M to him prob. not the right thing to do when we did(there was actually a little financial pressure), but that he was a good guy, I loved him, and I'd prob. marry him eventually anyway. Feelings for OM may change with time.