WW and DS stayed at friends house at beach last night. WW hanging out out with all of her "enabling" friends, younger girls at least 2 of which told her M wasn't worth it if she was unhappy, better for the kids to D from your horrible H.

She didn't answer phone last night. I called DS this AM and left a message and WW called me back. Very strained conv. about nothing really.

I was very nice, asked her questions so she could talk, she's just very cold. I asked her about picking up DD from Camp and wouold she like me to do it? She said no.

I told her I would be home next weekend. She immediately told me she had a dinner party next saturday night. I asked if it was for couples, she said no, just girls at friends mothers house, but she wouldn't be late.

I told her i understood, but that I was disappointed we wouldn't get to spend time together but i would do something special with the kids. she said she wouldn't be late, and besides what time did i get in on friday? i said late but maybe not too late to do soemthing. I haven't told her i am staying until wednesday.

Earlier I had been excited when she asked if i could come home the weekend of 8/9 august. I said I wasn't sure but i could check. She said, "that would be great, everybody is going to tricia's condo for her birthday weekend so if u could keep the kids that'd be great."

Great. I don't think I've ever known a mother who hated to spend time with her kids more than my WW. it's like torture to her and she pines to be with her girlfriends smoking cigs and drinking miller lites.

I went to thoughts she and OM were still seeing each other, but I don't think it's the case. Confirmed he is getting engaged and is FREAKED OUT that i may be coming home soon. One of WW girlfriends told me so yesterday, she had heard from one of OM charlie's best friend. Charlie doesn't even come to our side of town anymore.

WW just can't stand to be around me or her kids really.

I did look over the sprint bill again last night. Immediately after I told WW that i had confronted charlie she called one of his friends like 6 times. 1st call at 11PM for 10 minutes. THEN, incoming, "unavailable" call for 9 minutes, then successive calls to OM charlies friend for 10 -25 minutes with 10-15 minute intervals in between.

I guess she was flipped out for his feelings, called om's friend to get him a message, OM called with *67 or whatever and then they relayed msgs back and forth thru friend. after that no more calls to either number and i recognize all the numbers on the bill. I think even after 2 weeks she is STILL VERY ANGRY WITH ME FOR CONFRONTING OM CHARLIE!

I placed an online application for phone consult with harleys for late this week. keep praying for me. this thing may be coming to a head despite my plan a efforts.

WW and DS stayed at friends house at beach last night.

I doubt it. She is possibly lying. Again.

She hates you and the kids. She does not want you to get a job in town since she does not like to spend any time with you. Why give her money to buy cigs and beer and gas to go places? You are encouraging her drinking/party-hardying ways.

She is most probably starting to flirt with or boink one of Charlie's friends now. That is, if she is not continuing to spend time and energy ( and cell minutes) to get Charlie back. She knows you monitor her calls YET SHE DOES NOT CARE IF YOU SEE HER FLIRTING, CALLING MEN, AND TRYING TO GET CHARLIE BACK!!!! WHAT A SHREW SHE IS!

Wow, I have not seen a wife so brazen, bold, mean, and cold using you for nothing but money while she parties and carries on her affairs and flirtings and partying. She is like a trashy barfly using you for beer money. Wow. How can you live with this?.

She is treating you extrememly bad, man, and it sounds like she always has been this bad to you. How have you been able to live with this bad treatment from a woman???

I pray that you stop taking bad treatment from this female tramp...er ah I mean "WOMAN".....

I am so sorry she is accidently your wife....

I hope that you get to talk with the Harleys. I think it will really help you to get a clear picture of what you need to do.

You may be right. Despite your efforts, your WW may not want to return to this M. It seems to me that she hasn't just cheated on YOU but that she is really trying to escape her ENTIRE life. Children and a husband are work. She may have just decided it's too much work for her.

It doesn't help that she is around friends who don't have that. It's easy to get caught up in the "single life" if that's what you are hanging around. Do you have any married friends with kids? My H and I had to actively seek out married couples so that our social events were more appropriate for where we were at. Maybe because you are so far away, she has chosen single friends instead of married...to "fit in" better.

Keep doing your Plan A. It doesn't hurt to continue it. But it does sound like her boundaries are just not going to fit with what you want/need from a wife. The Harleys are not magic, but they have LOTS of experience and can give you good advice.

HTM

Stellakat,

you said;

"I doubt it. She is possibly lying. Again. "

You might be right, but I tend to doubt it. She is, essentially, having another affair.

The affair is her "single life dream world" with her yournger friends. They hang out together all the time and do adult things and her husband and kids are boring by comparison.

"She hates you and the kids."

Yep.

"Why give her money to buy cigs and beer and gas to go places?"

She's got my kids, I can't cut her off completely. She buys her own cigs and the beer is provided by her friends whose house they all hang out at all the time. I am surprised the people who own the house don't get sick of it, but they don't seem to.

"Wow, I have not seen a wife so brazen, bold, mean, and cold using you for nothing but money while she parties and carries on her affairs and flirtings and partying. She is like a trashy barfly using you for beer money. Wow. How can you live with this?."

Yep. And it ain't easy. Doing plan A requires me to be nice while not being a doormat when I want to call her a lying cheating trashy wh*re. My tongue is almost bit in two...

"How have you been able to live with this bad treatment from a woman??? "

Good question. Prob because she has interspersed it with good times and great SF.

hicktownmommy,

you said;

"You may be right. Despite your efforts, your WW may not want to return to this M. It seems to me that she hasn't just cheated on YOU but that she is really trying to escape her ENTIRE life. Children and a husband are work. She may have just decided it's too much work for her."

You may be right. it's too bad that she is so immature she doesn't realize that in a very short time all those friends with 3-7 year olds will soon be in the homework, project, carpool stage of life with their kids and they won't have time to hang out every night with a then 45-47 year old WW and she will be alone. Or she will end up ensnaring a rich 55 year old with a house on the ocean, start playing house, only to realize his freinds are much older, it's tough being married no matter who it is, she doesn't like his grown kids who also look at her suspiciously, her kids hate the new H and she is once again unhappy. Of course I can't say this right now without her getting more entrenched in her position.

"Do you have any married friends with kids?"

We sure do, but they are not as "fun" because they all want to do stuff with their kids on the weekends. I hope to get an interview at home soon.

Stellakat is right. She doesn't want to me get a job at home bc that would threaten her lifestyle. I fully expect her to continue it even when I return home. She doesn't want me back bc it will cramp her single girl lifestyle bc she will feel a twinge of guilt every time she leaves me alone with the kids. I'll plan A it for awhile, but not lying down.

Every time she decides to leave to go somewhere without us, I will take the kids to one of our old friends with kids for dinner, or maybe to Disney or somewhere else really fun. She can look at herself in the mirror and at her kids when they tell her how great dad is and what a fun time we had.

In the beginning it will do no good to "forbid" her to go out with the "gang", trust me. I'll bite my tongue for awhile in plan A to see if she comes around.

If not, Plan b, which will be tough to do. I'd prob end up being the one to have to leave like Jon did after Sue talked to an attorney in SAA, but by that time the kids will be really angry with her.

My kids are already mad at her. My DD told me, "Dad, you should divorce her and find somebody sweet who will be nice to you, WW is such a bi*ch."

Words of wisdom from a 15 year old.

I think you have the right idea. You cannot force her to change and she will fight it tooth and nail if you do. She will either decide to be part of your M or she won't.

When you get home, I think you have a great plan. Make your goal to be an awesome dad (and husband). Don't "restrict" her from her friends, but make sure that she knows you would love to have her participate with you and the kids and that you are sad that she is choosing them instead. But if she chooses her friends, then go out and have fun with your kids.

You are completely right about M being work. No matter who you marry, it is not all roses...sometimes it's the sh*t they grow in... Your WW seems to be in this mid-life crisis where she wants to recapture her youth. It won't work. In the end, she will realize that. But by then, you may have had to move on.

Have you thought about a time frame for Plan A? Most people here suggest a timeline in your head so that you don't feel too beat up. I wonder if maybe six months is long enough (maybe too long). Then you move to Plan B.

I think you should do your best to re-establish friendships with those married couples with kids. Build a support system for you and your children so that if and when Plan B comes into play, you have that system there to lean on. I don't think you should count yourself out if Plan B happens...you may be able to figure it out so that she needs to leave and not you. Why do you think you will have to be the one to leave?

Good luck. Keep on trucking...
HTM

HEY! How do y'all like this little email exchange from today? WW emailing me about $


WW: "I cannot log into mypay. you've changed the password too, I guess, make sure you are in complete control of everyone. Did you think I'd try to take your money? nice......

you will need to print out your W-2 or email it."

ME: "WW, at the time my finances were in a shambles, my credit record was torn apart, checks were bouncing all over the place, you were in an active affair and keeping it a secret while lying to me and everybody else, and still to this day you are not willing to say whether you want a divorce or not. Yes, I took some steps to protect me and the kids financially until you decide what you want to do. That is not being in control, it is just being smart."

"WW: Smart would have been to engage in our life years ago and not just assume everyone would be able to handle all the crap you didn't want to. I did my best with the money and the kids. Sorry if you were too busy to notice."

ME: "I realize that I have made some mistakes and am willing to make amends and change those things if you will give me the chance. We will both need to do some trying here. I am not sure if you have really thought all the way through the process of splitting up on yourself, me, the kids and all, but if you are bound and determined to do it there is nothing I can do to change you.

I am trying the best I can to show you that I have made some permanent changes and will keep on trying as long as my patience will last. You are understandably angry about that, "too little too late etc." But those changes will either serve us both well, or at least me and the kids well in the future if you are determined to break us all up.

I still love you and am offering you a chance as well if you want to take it. Gotta run."

Hope this was OK. I know it's not total plan A, but I just didn't know how to respond any other way. I guess I can talk about POJA'ing the finances with her, but with her so mean and nasty I don't think she would respond to that now.

I think it sounds good. You stood up for yourself, but you let her know that you would like to have her there with you.

She's really trying to goad you into a fight. You did great acknowledging her unhappiness, accepting partial blame, but at the same time reminding her that SHE is the cause of a lot of it too.

Kuddos.

HTM

I'm not sure you need to POJA the money thing completely. Yes, you need to make sure that she can pay for daily needs for her and the kids, but you can limit that. Maybe you can set up a second bank account and deposit an "allowance" into it that she can use for food, clothing, etc. Let her know that you want to make sure she and the kids are provided for, but as you stated before, until you know what her intentions are, you need to make sure that you are financially secure...meaning that she has limited access to your accounts.

HTM

hicktownmommy

you said;

"Maybe you can set up a second bank account and deposit an "allowance" into it that she can use for food, clothing, etc. Let her know that you want to make sure she and the kids are provided for, but as you stated before, until you know what her intentions are, you need to make sure that you are financially secure...meaning that she has limited access to your accounts."

That is exactly what i have done. This should be an interesting weekend coming up. I love how quickly she turns it on me and says in response to my securing my finances bc she was in an affair and says,

"Smart would have been to engage in our life years ago and not just assume everyone would be able to handle all the crap you didn't want to. I did my best with the money and the kids. Sorry if you were too busy to notice."

I must really have been such an awful person...not! OK, I made some mistakes, but I can't buy all this cr*p.

I read about 50 pages of abandoned with 3 kids thread last night. While they are different people and I was in no way the domestic supporter he is, WW and I did meet very young and she has now had at least 2 affairs that I know of and has had numerous opportunities for more and certainly ONS's. Whenever we "broke up" she immediately was having sex with multiple partners.

I recently found out by her own admission that one summer during college she heard from one of my friends that I was telling people that we were broken up. She says she tried to call me but since I was in atlanta she couldn't reach me. She assumed friend was telling the truth so she slept with 2 guys in Newport RI that summer, one a ONS the other a few times. During this time i remembered I couldn't reach her for a couple of weeks until we got back to school. We picked up where we left off and she never told me about it. I was like...you just took this person's word that i was saying that and started having sex with people? I never said that. She said yeah.

I will keep trying, but I do have doubts as to whether this woman is worth it.

I'm sorry to hear that...but I think you may be right. While I don't take the hard line that Stella might take (no offense Stella...you speak your mind), I am starting to think that the pattern is so engrained in her that she may not be willing to change enough to meet the needs you have in a wife. She may just not be willing to be monogamous.

In the end, you can at least know that you have done all that you could to provide an opportunity for your relationship to survive.

Question, was there ever a time in your M when you feel like you and your W were on the same page with each other about what it meant to be married? Was it there at some point and slipped away or was it never really there to begin with?

HTM

hicktownmommy,

There were definitely times when we were on the same page, but I now see that my 2 biggest EN's are affection and openess honesty. She happens to find it nearly impossible to display any affection whatsoever and is very walled off with her feelings, never wanting to discuss what is bothering her, would rather keep it bottled up inside to "process on her own."

I have almost never in 24 years had her open up to me about a problem she was having emotionally.

Another of my EN's is admiration. Again, I feel she has never expressed this at all. I shared this with her a little while ago, during the long DDay process that took several days, she said she always told people how hard i worked, how smart i was. I said I never knew. She felt this was good enough, and mentioned 1 time in 24 years that she paid me a compliment.

My other 2 EN's are Physical Attractiveness and SF. She has the physical attractiveness down cold and had the SF more than taken care of until the last year. Yes it's been nearly a year...and counting.

I read in SAA that people for whom SF is an EN typically are the types that fantacize. She does this frequently during SF, very vocally, openly with no shame or hesitance whatsoever and it can be pretty graphic. I always liked this that she was willing to share with me her innermost thoughts (ok, it was pretty hot too.)

At any rate, she has met only 2 of my EN's for years and now is meeting only 1, which in our current state she is not really meeting at all.

I can guess at her EN's but it's only a guess.

HTM, I am catching up on your thread reading from the beginning. I'll see you over there. You have really been thru the ringer...

SWW,

Waywards are waywards. Ab's WW is no worse than any other wayward, IMO. Although, there were times that I wondered if she had a mental illness. I don't wonder anymore. She's just he!! bent. And ab is done.

It is my opinion that until you MOVE HOME, you will not have really tried to put this M back together.

Your WW has consistently believed that abandonment = permission to sleep around.

It's a wonder you chose to take the job you have, knowing this about her. But, what done is done.

I happen to think there's alot of hope for your M.

But, you need to get home.

Have you called Dr. Harley, yet?

PS: I really like Stella. I have no idea how old she is, but she reminds me of my beloved grandmother. I totally get her. She hates to see people suffer at the hands of others.

I think if YOU change. Improve yourself. Cut out love busters,live w/ your WW, and meet her EN's, I believe she will change too. That's what MB is all about.

I am 53, people say I look 10 years younger, tried to get my picture on the MB pic thread but Faith would not put it up on there....

Yes I was raised by super strict parents. I spent years trying hard to find out who I was and what I wanted in life..

I have a lot of inner rules I go by in life and they have not been bad for me. Saved me from a lot of heartache yet there is still pain in life no matter how hard we try to do the right things....

I think this speaks well of your M.

Having a healthy sex life tells me you had a pretty good M prior to moving away. And prior to the A.

Opening herself up to you...sharing her fantasies w/ you IS being open and honest. She wouldn't have done this, if you didn't make it "safe" for her to.

Thank you for sharing that, Stella.

Yes, there's no way to escape pain on this side of heaven is there?

MB is blessed to have you here.

Marsh,

you said;

"Your WW has consistently believed that abandonment = permission to sleep around.

It's a wonder you chose to take the job you have, knowing this about her. But, what done is done."

Thing is I didn't really know all this stuff about abandonment until it was too late and the A's had started. I didn't even know she was sleeping around so much when we were broken up in college until we had been married for years and it slowly came out. My fault not knowing her EN's I guess.

You know, our communication has been lousy for awhile now. It is partly my fault and I have been busted up solid for responding to her complaints by arguing back rather than just listening and realizing that she was trying to be honest and vent her feelings, not just criticize.

If I get another chance I will do just that, listen. I can be a real dope.

I go home this weekend. Headhunter called. Said the corporation is very interested after seeing my resume. Said this company normally doesn't respond quickly to getting resume's so that's a very good sign. Said it won't happen overnight though.

Job is Exec VP Global Operations and is #3 job in a large publically traded corporation, so they will vet very seriously.

I am actually scared to death that they will say "ok, youve got the job." What if I can't do it??? I always say that at the beginning of a new job though, and who cares, at least I'll be home for awhile even if i do get fired after 90 days.

Please offer up a prayer for good old "sick with worry" if you think about it.

thanks.

Your WW's pointing a finger at your past faults is nothing more than her own justification for what she is/was doing. If she can't lay blame on you, she would have to own responsibility, and be miserable with herself. Don't pay attention. You have acknowledged shortcomings, you've offered repairs and solutions.

I did perfect in your e-mail exchange. You told her where you stand. You will not lie down. You opened the door for marraige and recovery. Keep it up.

The new job.. Figuring out "What am I going to do when I grow up".

Can I compete in this new and unknown world?

Don't sweat it.. You've been trained to be competetive, learn at a quick pace, etc. You'll do fine. When I read my job description for the position I took after retirement, I was nervous, It sounded like I was taking on the responsibilities of an entire department of people.

The grass is greener with a blue card

-JKT

Will do.