Hi 72Dude:

At this point in time, you are engaged in tilting windmills so long as she is in the FOG. I explained the why and what to her at her request and the lack of response to what I said meant, at least to me, that she either chose to ignore or it went over her head. I think it might be called an inconvenient truth from her POV.

I do think she is looking for answers, just in all the wrong places. Her big deal is to attempt to salvage some pride. That is completely counterproductive and a big time waster. I gave her an out and she blew past it. rain really needs to read the post by eeyoree titled "Don't do it." At this stage, rain is like a meth addict making mouth noises of the need to shake the addiction since her rational mind can see the consequences, yet her emotional mind still craves the fix.

If you want to salvage her, just exercise more patience. If she is past redemption in your mind, then do what you gotta do.

All the best.

Larry

I've decided that her 'need' for an outgoing guy is a failing of her childhood. Nothing to do with you; you're just the one who got sucked into the dysfunction. Regardless, I wouldn't like to see you get together unless she does some SERIOUS counseling to determine why she needs this thrill ride so much. If you don't get it resolved, you'll never have a decent marriage.

No, dude, the EN questionaire is supposed to show you what needs are most important to one another. The needs that make each of you feel most loved. You're not supposed to list them in the order they aren't currently being met.

I suspect that Rain's top ENs are conversation and admiration.

When Dr. Harley asks couples to fill the ENQ out, it doesn't matter what EN the W says is her top EN, he will always tell the H to focus on meeting her need for conversation.

Think about it. What ENs were OM meeting? Certainly not much RC, like she claims is one of her top EN. It was CONVERSATION.

When we are getting our top ENs met, we fall in love.

So, if I were you I'd focus on conversation as well as admiration.

All that focus she places on your personality is bogus. She fell in love w/ you and married you knowing you had a quiet nature.

I think her focusing on your nature does two things for her.

1) It justifies her A in her mind.
2) It is something she can point to and say there's no use in trying to save this M b/c you will never be able to alter your personality.

I would pay very little attention to it.


You need to find other things to enjoy together and talk about.

Join a church? Take a class together? Join a type of hobby club? Start reading books together? Maybe a good mystery?

Start walking together every evening after dinner. Or try another sport together.

Your world together needs to get bigger not smaller.


I think a long, dark Plan B is the way you should go.

And I still FIRMLY believe she ought to write OM a NC letter. As long as that door remains open (D your H and then we can be together) w/drawal will just linger on and on....

Rain said this:
He asked her to make a decision. You or him. She says there is no time limit to make it.

That door is WIDE open.

It needs to be shut.

If I were you, I'd insist upon it.

And move into Plan B if necessary.

OM learned that she won't make a decision until she has to.

OM's promise and usually fail to deliver. I suspect that OM is getting on with his life. Get back to me in a couple of months on his progresss

Larry

Last week there was change brewing, and over the weekend she has done a 180 and is almost this perfect wife. I don't understand it, but I sure do appreciate it. She has tried and exceeded meeting most of my needs the past few days. I can tell she is still struggling over some things, but she is putting forth effort.

I am almost at a loss of words right now and don't know what to do. I was just inches from going plan B and now I've been pushed back. Is this a short lived run she is giving me? I don't know what to do now. I'm right back to sitting still again.

Has anyone else experienced this from a WW this fast during her withdrawal stage?

Yes, I think most BS experience this situation. Often more than once.

Ninety times out of one-hundred it means WW got an OM fix and feels good.

Nine times out of one-hundred it means WW has found a potential new OM. You would probably not be surprised at how often a WS gets over one affair by starting another.

One time out of one-hundred it means WW has been hit by lightning and is just a bit dazed and confused.

Stick to your plan. Do not let this derail the NC letter, counseling, whatever it is you decide you need to go on further.

With prayers,

Dude,

Don't let a short spate of EN's being met confuse you. It's probably manipulation. You already know she is good at manipulation.

Enjoy, reciprocate, but remain focused on the big question: Do you really, really want to spend the rest of your life with this person?

With prayers,

Yes. WW was the perfect wife for a while...then dday #2 came, then she left to go stay on OM's "couch" for the night. Keep your guard up my friend.

Thanks, it is really confusing. She is saying all the right things and she has started doing things.

She hasn't posted much, and when she does they are not deep or lengthy, which gives me pause. I don't want to read too much into that, but it makes me wonder exactly what she is thinking may not be too good sometimes and she doesn't feel comfortable talking about it.

I know we are in the baby crawling stage of recovery, if she is truly working toward that goal, and I think she is at this moment, and we both have a long ways to go. I'm still 50/50 on the true need of a NC letter at this point, but it would probably make me feel better. I don't know if it is to confirm my suspicion because she will not write it, or if it is just kicking a dead horse.

Do you think it is safe for me to sit back and ride this where it goes? I think she is honestly trying right now, but I don't know if/how long it will last. That is my biggest concern.

Should I be looking for her to make a transition into more IC, or something of that nature? If she is really heading in the right direction, I don't want to screw it up, and I don't know what she or I should be doing right now either. I want things to move light speed when they are usually sitting on the back of a turtle.

IF she is committed to your M, she'd write that NC letter.

If she is attempting to manipulate you into believing she is committed to the M, in order to avoid writing the NC letter, then she'd behave alot like she is.

If she knows it would make you feel better (I'm assuming you have communicated this to her), and she still isn't doing it...you are in a false sense of recovery, dude. Been there done that. Sorry, dude.

Exactly.

It's not about you, dude. It's about her.

with prayers,

This is right on. So much so I will say it again. This is right on.


You took steps, it forced her to evaluate what SHE would lose. She is not thinking in YOUR best interests right now but for hers.

You need to continue to lead the way and to continue to take steps.

Follow all the recommendations Harley recommends to recover your marriage. It is a narrow path to recovery. Don't talk yourself out of those things Harley recommends, he has dealt with so many of these things.

Hey Dude,


It’s good to see that rain seems to be moving toward reconciliation.


You’re right, don’t read too much into it just yet. She gets bashed and taken to task quite a bit over on her thread and I could understand not wanting to be anxious to jump into that stuff.

She really doesn’t have anything to prove to us, but she’s got a lot to prove to you. You are the one that needs to be satisfied by what she does to recover the M.


Very true,


As she gets back into the M, she will need to write the NC letter. Contrary to what others may have believed, I was never against the NC letter. I thought it would have been a waste of time back then. I doubt that she would have maintained NC and therefore the NC letter would have been useless.

Remember there was no timetable set for her returning to OM and that she had to decide. Well, she will probably need to decide very soon. It is very necessary for your recovery and very necessary for OM to know that she will not be returning to him.

And once the letter is written and sent, it is likely that OM will try to reach rain to verify its authenticity. It is imperative the she not respond to him. If she does, it sets every one back to square one.


It ought to be a big concern. So here’s my .02 worth. Only time will tell for sure if she is serious about this. My guess is that you want her to continue to do this right? If you want her to continue to do this then you need to do things that make her feel good about doing what she’s doing? There will probably be some arguments about this, but a good M is about meeting each other’s needs and doing things that show you love each other.

As long as she is doing things you want, then reciprocate the actions. Do things that she needs you to do to show her that you appreciate what she is doing. To put it bluntly, make sure you are meeting her most important ENs. As much as some may not want to believe; recovery is a work done by both the BS and WS. It’s not a one-man show, performed solely by the WS. She needs to know when she's doing things right.


I might suggest taking Aphelion up on his offer and do a session with the Harleys. Or book a session or two if you can afford it. They can do, in one or two sessions, what it takes other MCs weeks and may cost more. They can help devise a plan that the two of you can follow.


I think all BS’s wanted it that way. I know I sure did. But it’s been nearly 7 years since D-day. 6 years since I found MB and going on four years into recovery. The two years between finding Mb and recovery is what it took for my W and ME to make the necessary changes to restore our M begin recovery.

This stuff dies work and you are doing fine.

Just like Aphelion said…


It takes time to see if she really means it. This will include a NC letter. And…



Blessings.

S&C

Dude,

Have you written a Plan B letter yet?

I would suggest starting to work on it - so that you are prepared and so that you know what you are going to expect of her if she is to remain in the M.

It will also help you identify what she is ALREADY doing. What MORE would be in your Plan B letter than what she is currently doing?

Fox

Thanks. I was hoping you would reply and help me sort it out.

I am waffling on the no contact letter. They haven't had contact in a long time, so I'm not sure about opening the door again. But, then again, I want him to know the door is shut and that he's not welcome around here ever again. I just don't know if the fact she doesn't want to do it is that it isn't necessary, or if there is some other underlying reason I can't reach. I'm fine with not doing it if contact never happens again. I think it would be good also, because I don't want him going out of his way to even ride through our town, as he should know there is nothing for him here.

The NC letter is slamming the door shut, not opening it. Making it clear to everyone involved where Rain stands..