You do have to let her go a bit, but no means do you have to give up. You need to detach. Visit this link to learn what it means to detach and why it is important. It helped me to detach and only after I detached could I function with a clear unclouded mind. http://www.coping.org/control/detach.htm


To her she is not making a mistake. She is doing what is best for her. She does not see a future full of love in respect. All she sees is the past of dis-respect and abuse. You have got to show her that you can provide her with the love and respect that you speak of until then it is only you dream and wish not hers.

You never get over being scared or wondering what if. I have been at this for 2 years and I still get scared and wonder what if. If only gets easier with the more your learn and the more you put what you have learned into practice.

There is no reason you can not be the man, the prince charming to sweep her off her feet. You did it once you can do it again. PMA

There is no guarantee that it will, but don't you want to do all you can to see that it does.

Ok - so I let her go. What if she thinks I gave up because I let her go? Then she'll think I'm a failure because I let her go? Will she think that I didn't try hard enough? Will she look at me like I gave up on her and that I want somebody else? Cause I don't want anyone else. That thought sickens me!

Her not seing that leaving is a mistake is what hurts. So she sees later down the road that she made a mistake. Do I want to set myself up again for all of this pain I'm in? Will I take her back? I can't answer that. Why can't I say for sure that I'll take her back? Why wouldn't I?

We're supposed to go on a date tomorrow night and I have no idea how to act. Do I act like we've been lovers for 15 years? Well, I better not I'd guess. Cause we havn't been. The first 3 years were good. The first date was AWESOME! And we didn't really do anything but sit and talk on a set of stairs.

She did warn me that I better not expect lovey dubby from her and Lord knows I don't. But she's been so cold to my efforts. I sneak in a little snack in her purse and she hasn't said a word about it. I don't know why. I really shouldn't worry about that I suppose. I suppose I should have done things like that years ago. I suppose I deserve this pain! Yeah - I guess I do.

I spent the entire day today thinking of other solutions that could ease her mind of us. I found a brand new house for 149,000 and we have exactly that in equity in our home. We could live in a new house 1200 a month free! Sell a bunch of stuff like my tractor and pay off credit cards. We could get so low in debt that she could even stay home. Then she would have all day to do the things she dreads doing at night when she gets home. Life could be simplified by doing something like this. Divorce is so complicated and all your assets and achievements go to the lawyers!

I like my idea but she still needs to "find herself". What does that mean? Why would she choose single parenting, being broke all of the time, live in a apartment for $550-600 a month, be without her kids when I have them, try to "raise" another man (she calls it) over a simple life with a simple plan. She could still pack up and leave any time she thinks I never changed! 15 years have gone by, what's a few months compared to 15 years. In only a few months she would be able to tell if I changed at all. In just a few months, I will have made so much progress. I know I will! I hate me. How could anyone love that? I want to be a better man for everyone in my life. It's not going to be that hard considering that I already know my faults. It's not like I'm throwing myself at a therapist and saying figure me out and fix it! I'm pouring it all out on the table and already learning how to make some adjustments to myself. All voluntarily. Nobody is forcing me to do this!

I've got to get this done. But I feel time is not on my side at all. And even if it is, I still keep hearing, I gotta find myself. This tells me that no matter what I do, I can't stop it. How do I cope with the idea that she IS walking out on "prince charming"? But just doesn't know it.

Here is my 2X4 to your head. Get of your high horse with all this BS about her walking out on prince charming. OBVIOUSLY you have not been prince charming for the past 12 years or so. So why in the heck do you think you are now. Because all of the sudden over the past few months you have decided or realized that you have been an a$$ and you are desperately trying to change that. You spent the last 12 years or more, killing the prince charming she though she married. To her she is walking away from the mean controlling troll under the bridge. I have already told you twice and here I am going to tell you again. You need to understand she does not view your relationship the same way you do. You see that you have made a few changes and you think that you are her happily ever after and she is a fool for even thinking of leaving you. You my friend are a fool and need to get that thought out of your head. She sees you as the enemy, BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN FOR YEARS!!! SHE IS DONE WITH BEING TREATED THE WAY YOU HAVE TREATED HER!!! If she had treated you in the same way would you be walking or staying put??? Put yourself in her shoes for the past 12 years. What kind of life do you see??? You yourself said that you have been controlling, rude, angry etc. You expect her to forget all that in a blink of an eye just because you feel bad for yourself and you are scared you are going to lose her. Oh if it was only so simple. Well brother, it is not. She has suffered through your sh*t for years and now it is time for you to suffer a bit yourself. For how long??? Well that has a whole heck of a lot to do with you and your growth and maturity.

You spent all day trying to come up with a solution to you martial issues and the answers that you came up with was to try to by her love with a new house and paying of the credit card bills. Brother if you think that is the solution, you need to stop everything you are doing RIGHT NOW and refocus. Trust me and I mean trust me a new house is not going to make her ran back into your arms. In what story have you read that prince charming gets the princess by buying her a house?

As far as her living in a dump for $500-600 a month and being a single mom. Well look at it this way. She views it as a heck of a lot better then staying with you. What does that tell you about how she views things??? Once again you see what you have to offer as roses, she sees it as fertilizer (the natural kind). You need to realize this and stop with the "I have change so much she is going to be sorry. She will see someday what she is missing" attitude. That day may come, but it sure is not today. You have to repair a whole lot of damage that you have caused her, before she sees you with any kind of bright light over your head. So you can either sit by feeling sorry for yourself and thinking she is making a mistake or get of your prince charming throne and put in some real effort and leg work.

On a softer note. As far as the date goes, focus on this one simple thought. NO EXPECTATIONS!!! Do not expect things to be comfortable, do not expect her to fall all over you. EXPECT nothing. Just go out and show her a casual FUN time.

Sorry if I am too in your face or saying anything you do not want to hear. I am not here to be your friend I am here to help you out. Because I have already been where you are and I already made the mistakes you are trying to make. Learn from my mistakes, because I have already been there done that. Sh*t I didn't even get a t-shirt out of it.

First - your response has not upset me a bit and I have nothing but respect for your continued support and your returning to my thread time after time. I see you have nothing but good intent to help men in your shoes. Thank you!

No I am not prince charming. I was referring to the future me. I know I am not prince charming now. But I know I want to be. Maybe I should have been a little clearer about that. I know that the dozen roses, cooking dinners, dishes, laundry, cleaning, sneaking notes and special things in her purse, taping notes to her cell phone, listening to her about her day and looking in her eyes when I do is has not repaired the damage that has been done over the years. You're right. I am her enemy.

Over the money thing. She worries like you just wouldn't believe about money. We live in a brand new house now. It's 3 years old. We built it together. It's 3800 sqaure feet 4br 3 1/2 bath and is almost finished. My intent with the other house was a scale-down from what we have now. Wanting to sell all of my things that makes her worry about money and buying another house with cash from our current equity was only another sacrifice that I am willing to make for her. Anything I can think of to eleviate her worries and eliminate any future worries about me is all I'm after. I know money doesn't buy love and I had nothing but good intentions with this idea. Get the money worries eliminated, fix myself, and then she'll be happy. That's what I was thinking. I thought my willingness to make these sacrifices would show her how serious I am about pleasing her.

I feel improvements in myself every time I go to my therapist. I went last night again for my weekly visit. I can't wait until the next time. It's like waiting for Christmas at 6 years old. I feel like a little boy that can't sleep on Christmas Eve. I have so much excitement in me of what's to come for my personality and the gift of giving myself to her when I find the right ways to do it. Every visit to my therapist seems so short. The hour just flies by. Last night I begged her to let me stay for another half hour and I did. It kept me from having dinner with my family and going to the grocery store with them but I got to work on me some more.

Just so you know, your reply to me was taken like a man! Taken as a wake up call too! Please stay!

When I get to where I'm going, AND I WILL - I will feel just like you and carry a 2x4 with me to hit the men out there like me with. I already find myself wanting to do that. I took my 2 kids to Bob Evans the other night. Sitting catty-corner from me was a younger family of 4. A very nice looking woman with her husband and 2 little girls. I wanted so bad to tell him to look at her and imagine her gone. Find out what she really needs and make sure you give it to her or your table will look like mine. But I didn't. I think about that guy every day and regret not saying something to him. Just, the world we live in is full of freaks and I didn't want to scare him.

On our date (I hope she doesn't change her mind) I will make my best effort to be a good boy! I'll keep you posted on how things go.

Thanks a million for being here for me! I have nobody here with me to talk to or hold. If I could, I would reach through this computer and hug you all! Thank you so much! Please stay and help me! This thing is far from over!

Nugget,

I am wondering what went wrong in your relationship? You sure know the situation pretty well. Your reply to Hubiscous was exactly my thoughts. This shows that you have come quite a long way.

I am not here to sit on my high horse and say yay or nay to anyone, but this is a thread that helps me tremendously.

Hubiscous, the advise Nugget and all the others are giving you are spot on. Do not rush things and do not expect anything. My situation on the other hand has left me all confused. I stated that I planned to reconcile with my husband but last night I am not that sure.

You should be careful what you say coz people listen. Me and my husband went out on a date last night and i was about to tell him that I am thinking of coming home round about the end of the month. But, before i could give him this news, he mentions that he thought about our situation and he feels that i am acting as if I am the victim.... Further, he says that he cannot change and be something that he's not. WOW!

I did not say anything, I just left him to ramble on. He says in the same breath that he has learned alot from this experience and that this time we would be able to work through our problems like two adults.

At this point I'm thinking: "Nothing has changed". He was just pretending before and it's difficult to keep up the pretence all the time. When I confronted him about what he said, he stated that i misunderstood. What about not changing did I not understand?

So my point, I knew that his change was still in the beginning stages and there is still a long way to go, but a statement like that has left a bitter taste in my mouth. Does this mean that once I'm back home we'll just pick up where we left it the last time?

I was willing to take that chance but now I have a whole new outlook on our relationship. The conclusion I came to is that I have to trust my instincts and not go home, maybe never.

PLEASE, don't take this the wrong way, I am not saying that any of you are not being true but I just want to highlight that it's difficult, like nugget said, for us to trust again. My husband really doesn't give me a reason to trust him.

I liked what Nugget said:"You need to realize this and stop with the "I have change so much she is going to be sorry. She will see someday what she is missing" attitude. That day may come, but it sure is not today. You have to repair a whole lot of damage that you have caused her, before she sees you with any kind of bright light over your head.

YOU CANNOT MISS SOMETHING YOU'VE NEVER HAD!

We as women also have our pride, and me personally have come to a point where I was once bitten and twice shy (or something like that I had so much faith that it will work out this time but clearly not - and this time it ended before we could start again.
Luckily for me, I have grown stronger and I had no teary eyed breakdown. I'm past that, have done that for 11 years. It had to stop someday right?

My advice to you, for now, be her friend, Love comes naturally.

Good luck with your date hubiscous and all the best for the future...

hubiscous I now you mean well and you think these things are acts of kind gesture, but they are actually poison. Your wife views them as acts of desperation and pursuing on your part. Ok ok I know your are going into to panic right now. You are saying to yourself what the heck is this guy thinking. If I do not shower my wife with love and attention and I give her space, she is going to think I am giving up and I am the one walking away. The exact opposite is true. She needs her space and she is asking you for it. She will gain 100 times more respect from you if you give her the space she is requesting then she will from a thousand gifts.

There are two main reason that a women leave a relationship. Boredom and lack of respect. The ones that suffer from boredom are those who usual (not always but more often then not) search out the company of another man. scary1 correct me if I am wrong on the following. The ones that feel a lack of respect, like your wife, my wife and also scary1 leave because they are tired of feel disrespected. The dis-respect came from our outburst of anger, our constant belittled, our constant I know more then you attitude. Well our wives and scary1 finally gained the strength and courage to say enough of this. I can not take anymore. Now you have to understand that this decision they took to leave was not overnight. More often then not it took years. My my tells me it took her over 3 years. This was a huge leap for them. I may be one of the biggest decisions they have made in quite sometime. But, along with this decision came some much needed self respect. Something they have not felt for sometime, thanks to us a-holes. They are proud of their decision and they are proud that they are taking a stance. And I am proud of them also. I am very proud that my wife found the courage to stand up to me and look me in the face and say "I love you, but I am not in love with you. I have had enough. I do not like the way you treat me. I do not like to be belittled and put down. I am tired of you making me feel stupid when I am not. I do not want to be with you anymore." Yeah of course this was a sledgehammer to my head, but thank God it happened. If not then I would still be in my pretend perfect marriage. You know how a guy thinks. If the wife is not complaining then things are ok. And if she is complain then it just must be that time of the month. WE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO LISTEN. My have had been telling me for years that she did not like how I was acting towards her, but I never heard it. I was dumb and blind. Well I have heard it loud and clear now. And I have learned to take to heart anything my wife says. If she says give me space, I know she means give me space and give it to me now. What I am getting at is our wives and scary1 did not leave, because they were not being showered with gifts. They left because they were being disrespected. I order for them to even think about coming back to us, the have to feel like we respect them. We have broken our promise to them. The promise we made when we married them. The promise to LOVE & RESPECT until death do us part. We have to gain back their love and respect.

Ok so how do we gain back their love and respect? scary1 I hope you will chime in here and give us your input. You are waiting for the love and respect from you H. Here is what I have learned and what I am trying to put into practice in my life. First I had to understand what "love" is. Love is a feeling, it is an emotion. It is a deep feeling of connection or being involved with someone or something. It is a desire that we have to nurture and care for that something or someone. I lost that deep feeling of connection with my wife. I lost the desire to nurture and care for her. Instead I cultivated a need to destroy her. I did this through my anger, through my name calling, basically through my verbal abuse and constant degrading her. Why did I do this. Simple. It was to satisfy my own need to love myself more then my need to love her. I was not happy with myself and I used my attacks on her to make myself feel better. It was not until I discovered what was making me unhappy, that I could stop the attacks against her. My unhappiness stemmed directly from my anger. Once I learned what anger was and how to control it, instead of it controlling me. Everything changed. We have to show them that we love them. We have to build the deep connection with them. We have to make them feel cared for and nurtured. Not in a monetary or physical way. But, in a emotional and spiritual way. We have to build them back up since we are the ones that tore them down. "You look beautiful today" "I love the way you smile/laugh" "I love how you interact with our child" "I love how much you care for our child" "You are such a good daughter/sister, you family is lucky to have you" But, what you say to her has to be from the heart and you have to mean it sincerely. If not, she will see right through your BS.

Respect Definition

re·spect (ri spekt′)

transitive verb

1. to feel or show honor or esteem for; hold in high regard
2. to consider or treat with deference or dutiful regard
3. to show consideration for; avoid intruding upon or interfering with to respect others' privacy

I don't know about you hubicous, but when I read the definition of respect above I cringe. My stomach turns to knots. I have not show my wife honor or esteem, nor held her in high regard. I have not treated her with deference (respectful submission or yielding to the judgment, opinion, will, etc., of another). I have not show her consideration for her space, for her opinion, needs or spirituality. I have not shown my wife very much respect at all over the years. In fact I have gone out of my way to DIS-RESPECT her. I would be fool to think that she wants to be with me after the way I have treated and dis-respected her. I know I have so much repair to do. I can only wish that someday she will forgive me for all the damage I have caused her let alone even entertain the idea of coming back to me.

I am not a bad person. In fact I am a very kind and giving person. Even my ex-wife will tell you that. But, I let my anger and low self-esteem take over my personality and they controlled me. They caused me to destroy my marriage and they did their best to also destroy my wife. Thank God she got out. I remember my wife asking me several times "Why do you treat everyone else better then you treat me?" "Why will you drop everything to help out others, but when I ask for your help you tell me to figure it out or do it myself?" My answer on several occasion was "I don't know. Why do we hurt worst the ones we love most?" When I said that back then I did not grasp the full meaning of what I was saying, but at the time it sounded good. Today I do grasp why I did what I did and I know now "Why we hurt the ones we love the most" or at least why I did. Sub-consciously I knew in my heart that my wife loved me more then anyone else. I knew she would put up with me more then anyone else. I knew I need to vent/direct my anger somewhere and I knew she would be the one to stomach it the most. I knew that if I treated or dis-respected anyone else they way I was her, that they would not stand for it and they would tell my to get bent. But, because she loved and cared for me so much, she took it. And the more she took it the easier it became to give it to her. The more I gave it to her the more natural and frequent it became. Until finally it started to take it's toll on her and little by little it started to wear down her armor of love. Year after year her armor of love got thinner and thinner, until she finally started to feel the sting of my words. Once she could no long bare the pain any longer she wanted out. Her armor was gone and her heart was fatally wounded by my attacks.

hubicous the job before you and me is to win back the love and respect of our wives. The only way this can be done is on an emotional and spiritual level. When I speak of spiritual, I do not mean religious, but much deeper. Spiritual, as in we need to connect with their souls. A spiritual connection, so deep that it is only found between two people who deeply love, care and respect each other. This connect can not be bought through flowers, gifts or notes of "I love you". It has to be earned. It can only be earned though the changes we make. Through the way we speak. Through the words we use. And by how we act.

Pretty much the same that went wrong in yours. Your husband has done to you pretty much what I have done to my wife. Because of the similarities that our situation have I would like to discuss somethings with you on a more one to one basis if you would be willing. I think/hope we may be able to help each other a bit. If your interested shoot me an email to lovncela@yahoo.com.

Wow - word for word Nugget! Ditto -

I understand exactly what you're saying. Respect is free. Gifts cost money. Who needs gifts more than respect? Gifts are garbage that gets thrown away at a garage sale next year or eaten by the washing machine.

It's a little late to back out of the cards and gifts thing, but I'll stop now. Respect respect respect. I've been doing that too. Showing her I care. Listening really listening to her daily details. I know she shes it in my eyes. She has to, it's the first time she's ever seen my eyes when she talks to me.

I've done all of the damage to my wife that you have done to yours. It does make you feel like a terd once you actually realize what you've done doesn't it?

Before it was lip service, kiss make up and all is good. For a week! And the damge stays and more adds to it and tears her apart. Just like you've said Nugget.

I am serious about fixing me - ok? I am focusing HARD on it and am dedicated to it. I always get what I want. No matter what it is, I get it! All of the things I wanted before seem so useless now that I see the real me and what means most on my wants and needs list is to change this ignorant man I am. I feel good about what's coming. Feel like crap of what I was.

I can't wait to present the new me! I'm so anxious to be a real man! How exciting is it to know that others are going to want to be around yoy? WOW! That's exciting!

I saw my parents today and they saw the light in my eyes. They know I'm on fire and it really shocked them. Mom's been hearing it on the phone but to see it made her cry. She's been waiting a long time for this, just as my wife has. Man I can't wait! I'm really excited!

Look out world! Here I come!

No worries. I spent a far share on my spouse also when everything went south also, but then I learned that the gifts were doing more harm then good.


She will notice the difference. I have noticed the difference. When we used to talk I was the one looking away or continuing to watch TV or out the window, because I was nervous, uncomfortable or did not want to listen. Now when we talk, she is the one looking away, but not for the same reasons I was. She looks away, I believe, because she is not used to me actual paying attention and look at her in the eyes when she is speaking. She has stopped looking away for the most part now and it is amazing how you can feel connected to someone when you look them in the eyes during conversation.

Yeah it makes me feel like a real dirt bag. When I was typing to you earlier about respect and re-reading the definitions, I was getting sick to my stomach to think about how I have treated me wife and how she must have felt. How can I ever blame her for wanting out.

The biggest impact you can have the quicks way to earn respect is to kill those old harmful habits. As long as we continue to let the surface or repeat it is 2 step forward and 2 steps back. We have to put the reigns on those old destructive behaviors. They will notice. We will come face to face with them in similar past situation and they will expect us to blow up or show our old ugly selves, but we will surprise them and let the new us shine bright.

I truly do understand your excitement. I know exactly how you feel. Knowledge is power and it is what drives us. But, we have got to take it slow with our spouses. They do not share the same excitement as we do, in fact quite the opposite. They are quite skeptical or leery about our intentions and actions. We have got to proceed with patience and caution. It is going to take them time to heal and time for them to feel safe around us again.

People do see the changes. They see a different stride to your step and they see the changes in your demeanor, as does your wife. My wifes friends tell her what a nice guy I am. These are the same people who advised her to leave me. Now tell me that doesn't that piss her off. LOL

What a breath of fresh air!

love your post nugget! Funny there at the end!

Hey, the date went GREAT! Here's the details:

The kids are both with my parents camping so they're having a blast!

So we leave the house about 6:30 and head to town. I took her to a very nice restaurant on the river and we had AWESOME food! It was fantastic. We talked eachother's heads off on the 30 minute drive to town and we never shut up enough to eat all of our food!

So we packed it up and moved on back toward another section of town and stopped at a goofy golf. We played and laughed and truly enjoyed eachothers company like it was a first date. By the way, she kicked my a$$ by 3 strokes! And I'm proud to say it was legit! She really beat me! That's the first time in my life I've been beaten and feel good about it!

We then moved on to the highest point overlooking the 2 cities and sat on a wall looking over the two river towns and talked and smiled. Seing her smile makes me feel so warm inside. Was it me that made her smile? God, I can only pray it was me and not a fake smile. I think it was real - it sure looked like a real one.

Then we looked at some houses I've been pondering on and she kinda entertained the idea that it would probably be a decent move. Not sure what she really felt there.

Then I "took her back to her place". I kinda joked with her by asking what time she had to be home and she said 9:30, so I had her home by 9:15. Good boy right?

Here's the part you might not like Nugget but it got a HUGE smile outta her.

Her jacuzzi tub was full awaiting her a warm bath. Incense ready to light. On her pillow was a nightgown from VS. A bottle of VERY nice perfume, a rose, and a card.

I didn't lay a hand on her all night. It was tough to stay tough! Know what I mean? I left her alone to bask in her bath and went to "my room". She thanked me for a wonderful evening and that is that.

Stay tuned...

I am glad your date went well. You did good at restraining yourself and you made it just all about having fun.

YOUR RIGHT!!! I did not like that last part. Talk about putting pressure on her. OH MY GOSH!!!

Here is something I read today that I think you can benefit from also.

Let me give you idea of how men and women differ their thoughts on a sample date. Women have their own rating system that is totally different from guys. Men think: Okay. I bought her flowers - that's worth one point. I took her out to a nice diner - there's another point. I took her dancing afterward - that has to be worth another point. See how this all adds up so quickly in a guy's mind?

The same date from a woman's point of view is going to go something like this: He took me out on a date. He was attentive to me - that's worth a point. He didn't check out that beautiful waitress, even though she was sort of flirting with him - there's a BIG point. He referred back to something earlier in the conversation. That means he was actually listening to what I said - I'd give him 2 points for that one. I felt so relaxed and comfortable with him. He even made me laugh - that's another 2 points in my book. I actually feel as though I could trust him more, now that I'm getting to know him. He is definitely doing the right things to raise my interest level.
--Cory Wayne "How To Be A 3% Man".

The way yo a womens heart is not through gifts it is by connecting with her feelings and emotions.

I get it. It's making sense.

It got a nice big smile out of her. I didn't see any pressure in her eyes. She just wouldn't stop smiling. I saw a sincere smile that I LOVED! I see where I went wrong even though it felt so right.

I forgot to mention that in my card I wrote "These are simple gifts that expect nothing in return". She REALLY appreciated those words. And what I meant by those words goes VERY deep into the last 15 years. Let me explain. In the past, when I wanted something, I just did it! Then left her to figure out how we were going to afford it and make the payment. Here's some examples; boat, 4-wheeler, computers, motorcycle, and the list goes on and on. It was always about what I wanted and this time it's her turn. I did mention the "It's your turn". I now realize I messed up there too. That was another pressure thing.

But you see, I'm learning. I'm still in the very early stages of learning what buttons not to press and which ones to simply snip the wires from so they won't even work if I wanna press them.

When I reminded her that I expected nothing in return. Please don't take my intentions wrong, she thanked me for that. She was very relaxed there in her bed and we were reminissing our evening and how much fun it was; I asked her if there was anything else I could do to make her evening complete and she said YES - a backrub would be nice. I said why of course. What better way to close the evening for her but to remind her that it was all about her and not about me at all. Lying there in her nightgown she just got, she looked so beautiful, especially with that continuous smile of hers. So anyways, I rubbed her back and her arms and her legs and her rear. She was eating it up. She started making moves that signaled something else and I serviced her and she loved it like never before. And I mean that. She made moves I'd never seen!

It was really difficult not to do more but I had to prove the evening and my reasons for the evening were still all about her! I was a good boy and kept myself in check. But how can I resist and say no to something she wanted?

Having her thank me for a wonderful evening after all of that was such music to my ears. I made quite a few mistakes by your rulebook and I'm sure several others, but I just have to learn what they are and stick to my guns on those things. Please feel free to smack me with that 2x4 again after reading all of this. I'm sure there are several things that I could have done or not done. Pick me apart. I'm asking for it! Really! You seem to really know a lot about what's REALLY going on in her head right now. Me, I'm completely lost!

(my previous post was made while she was in her bath. she came to me and wanted to me in the bedroom to talk afterwards. Hence all of this being left out of my previous post. I was so excited to tell you how the date went that all of this I just posted transpired afterwards)

Today, We have a big day separate from eachother's day. My parents are in town for 10 days at a local campground. That;s where the kids are. I was to go over there this morning and hang out with them all day and the wife is going to her parents where her brother is in town to hang out there and do some things with him. My sister is coming in to to hang out with Mom and Dad at the trailer. All confusing huh! Anyways, I work Sunday and an appraiser is coming Monday to look at our house. She planned on her and the kids cleaning the house Sunday while I'm at work. It;s a HUGE job and to be honest, the kids really don't do that much compared to big people. So I suggested to her last night that I WILL be staying home today until the house is cleaned so that Sunday, she can relax on her day off. She really liked that I think. It;s continued efforts and continued acts of kindness and generosity that could be my saviour. I don't feel like I'm scoring points, I feel like doing these things from my heart. All of the things I've been doing around the house are simple to do. Takes no effort at all in my eyes. When love is behind it, it just doesn't feel like work!

That is GREAT that she reacted positively.

They guidelines, experiences or comments that I or others give are not written in stone. Everyones situation is different and everyone (us and our spouse) react and respond differently to different things. If you find that something your are doing is having a POSITIVE impact, even though you had read, heard or been told not to do them, then by all means do them. If you find them having a negative impact or her not responding they way you thought she would then stop doing them.

Well, bad news. I went out with my sister last night and while we were out, the wife called to see where I was. I felt guilty for being in a sports bar drinking a beer, but I was with my sister so I thought it was ok. I told her that I'd leave if it made her uncomfortable and she slipped in the "were separating so why would it matter" phrase and it again made my heart fall to my stomach. I asked her why she had to say that to me and she reminded me that I told her that I'd give her space. What happened to you agreeing to giving me my space?

Well, I am convinced now that she is EXTREMLY confused seems as how last night I spent the entire evening all up in her space and she loved every minute of it.

I think maybe she could be testing me and wanting the old me to come out to justify her leaving me. To make her feel better about the mistake down deep inide she's afraid she might be making. She still wants to go find herself, but I think she might be afraid that it's a mistake even though she's 99% dead set on it. Well, I have bad news for her. That 1% won't be filled up with me pushing her out. The old me is history! I will not let anything get between me and my goal of being a man. A man that ANY woman will soon desire. I will not live with myself knowing that I failed. She canot make me fail for her! I WILL NOT FAIL!

I spent most of the evening with my sister in a christian book store picking up a couple books to help me. One was the Gary Chapman 5 love languages and the other is about anger in a relationship and how to make it work FOR YOU. Forget the name. I ordered a workbook on anger as well and should have these both read by the time it comes in.

I'm starting to get used to the idea that she's already gone. But I'm getting even more used to the idea that I am far from gone. My heart has love in it dying to pour out to someone. Someone that will accept the new me as a sincere man with a passion for respect and trust to and from others.

I'm on a roller coaster here. But the ride eventually ends. Anybody wana ride with me and hold my hand through this. Nugget, you get shotgun, anyone else? Come on, help me out. Scary 1? Wanna go to? Hearing things from a woman's point of view here would really help me out! Please join me!

Hubiscous,

I know this might sound crazy but, you're spot on with the confused idea. That's exactly how I'm feeling.

Although you guys might be seperated, she's still your wife and you're still her husband! I am still concerned if my husband goes out... Not, the jealous concern, but wondering where he is and what he's doing, whether he's o.k etc. Also, could he be out enjoying himself while my heart is at war with my mind???


And yes, you are correct when you say she's testing you. I know i am constantly testing my husband. I would not like to make the same mistake. I am over the worst fears, walking out of my marriage was the hardest thing i ever had to do.

Like I said to my H the only guarantee i have at the moment is the fact that I am the only one i depend on for my happiness. Going back means, trusting someone else with your heart... And we've been there done that.

I know it's not fair to always be on the lookout for signs of the old you (my DH) etc. but it's something that we constantly think about. Oh yes, I too think that divorcing my husband might be the biggest mistake I might make, but what do I have to weigh it up against. Me being unhappy in a relationship vs me alone, almost happy, vs what hubby might or might not turn out to be?

The choice at the moment would be the 2nd and the only sure one. I'd rather be alone than be unhappy... Maybe were asking too much, I too need help, but this is a very confusing time. You guys, and by you i mean my husband is so sure of what he wants... In his eyes it's me. I would love to be that sure... This does not mean that i don't love him but look at it this way. You've always had a choice....

Firstly, it was your decision to act towards me the way you did.
You now made the choice that you are not prepared to let me go. You chose to make changes to your life now. All these choices were made to suit you.

I now, chose not to accept the treatment received. I am now the one having to make the choice if I want you in my life. Suddenly, you have to wake up and listen because now its MY CHOICE and only mine whether we would continue on this path together or seperately.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but this is not meant to be some power struggle. All I am saying is that for all these years I tried to put my family (DH) first on my priority list while I was somewhere on his. Just as you realised that you need to make some changes in your attitude,life etc. so did I.

Now back to you, hubiscous,

About finding one self, this is not just for the marriage but rather personal as well. The struggles i have, is that I did not speak up sooner. I should have let my husband know that his behaviour towards me was unacceptable but i was afraid it would lead to another argument. My thoughts about keeping the peace ate on my very soul. I realised this after 11 years. Now I'm on a path where I am building up confidence so that this will not happen again.

I don't think that the anger is directed at you but more towards ourselves. I would like to be able to speak up when I feel that I'm being treated wrongly in any situation not just my marriage. I have fallen into a whole where i have just accepted things and made up excuses for why i was treated badly.

I don't think your wife wants you to fail... Far from it. I would like my husband to become the best person he can be. Not for me but for himself.

From what I've read in your previous threads regarding your "date" with your wife, she still loves you that is clear. She might even have wanted you to take it further (this is just my opinion), but I think you made the right decision. If I was in her shoes and something did happen my thought would have been: "Oh so, it's all about his needs again, the wining and dining was just a build up to what he really wants." You are still the man of her dreams I know mine is...

I am busy healing (not from the seperation, that still hurts like hell), but I am thinking about my life alone as well as what it would be if I went back. That's why its so tough. You might think that you are working hard to change and that because of that you should be given another chance. You need to remember without sufficient time things could actually turn out worst.

I considered moving back home with my DH but like I said,I saw bits and pieces of the old guy and I got scared ! Now I am right back where I started, contemplating. I am not expecting him to wait for me forever for a decision but I will also not be bullied into one. My DH also said that I have already made a decision to leave him and I'm just stringing him along..that is so not true. But because he has made a "drastic change" for the better, i should just forget everything and move on...

If I was not taking my marriage seriously, I would have been out enjoying myself maybe even dating and he would have had divorce papers etc.

So be a bit more patient and I do think that you on the right path. Do not concern yourself about what she's thinking, this will only frustrate you. The decision is no longer in your hands. You've shown her your cards (You still want her), it's now her turn. Maybe I'm being biased but its not a decision that can be made overnight.

If she decides she wants to move on without you, then you have grown into someone very special and you will know how to handle yourself with future relationships. See it as a win-win situation. You are turning into a very "likeable" person (for lack of a better word ) and you will be able to deal with any situation calmly etc. I am sure you did not change for her, this is for yourself right?

We all get disappointed sometimes but we get over it eventually.It depends on whether you want to see the glass half full or half empty....

Sorry if I'm rambling but my head too is still a mess...

Thank you Scary1 for sticking around to help me in this thread.

It's brings me pleasure to hear what a woman other than mine is thinking and it does help. I've never been through anything like this in my life. The pain is so unbearable. My eyes are dry. My shirt is soaking wet. My throat is killing me. My nerves are shot. My ulcerative colitis is starting to flare up and my head is thinking things I've never imagined I could think.

Last night I was once again reminded by her that there was nothing I could do to stop this. I fell apart worse than I ever have before. The reality is setting in. I wanted to take a walk. So I did. To somewhere I should not have. A Bridge. I just wanted to look at the water and the boats and think. My thoughts turned against me and scared the crap out of me. I called my therapist at 10pm from that walkway and told her I had to see her, I had to talk to someone because I just scared myself. She called the local authorities freaking out. I ended up at the local E.R. embarassed as hell. Everything was good after she evaluated my messed up head and determined that I was not a danger to myself that I just wanted to take a walk. I tried to tell her that but they are trained to react when they hear someone is on a bridge! Can't say I blame her. So anyways, I went to my parents and hung our until 1am trying to sort out what the heck just happened to me. It was simple. I CAN NOT imagine life without the one I love.

You know, we're not all the same. Some people do change, and to prove it let me tell you a story. My wife actually went to one of my sessions and spilled her guts about how she felt about me. She told my therapist that how much she has done to change me. My therapist got a big kick out of that and was interested to hear how she did such a thing. She told her well, he was self employed and I told him to get a job or I'm leaving. Well, I got a job and she stayed so she thought she changed me, when the truth is, I ELECTED to get a job. I could have stayed self employed and packed her bags for her, but I CHOSE to get a job! I made the change! I made the change for the one I love.

Now that brings me to this...I have voluntarily enrolled in counceling, voluntarily ordered these books, voluntarily went to Christian books stores to buy the 5 Love Languages, and am VOLUNTARILY changing myself into what she would desire. Nobody is making me do this but me. So it is for me as you questioned, so your answer is yes, it's for me. However, my ultimatum was very clear and the consequences woke me up.

I am volunteering to be a man. Volunteering my heart to belong to my wife for the next 15 years and the next 15 and the next 15. My soul belongs to her. But let me tell you, I have let go of ALL of the hurt she has caused me because I love her. She needs to let go and I suggest that you do the same, and open yourself up to the idea that this could be real. If it's real, what a glorious thing to do. Keep that guard up at first but you have to be unbiased to even see a change. You can't just sit there expecting the worst and not paying attention to the new.

It's no more fair to us than the way we treated you. No disrespect, but if you love him and he loves you. What's the big deal? Just one more chance? have you heard that? I know my wife has. I mean one more chance. Stay with me, hold my hand through this and I'll hold yours. If I screw up, then leave. What's 2 months compared to 15 or 11 years? Not a whole lot to loose.

There are millions of women on this earth. Plenty right around the corner. Why are we so afraid to loose you when there's several that would want us?

Because WE LOVE YOU!

update:

Her parents had a talk with her last night. Not sure what happened but she didn't want to talk about it last night. Just wanted to talk about the divorce.

As it seems, and as I suspected, she wants to date. While I'm in Cleveland Clinic this winter getting my colon removed, she'll be dating. Between now and then, she wants to be friends. She wants to see my improvements. Time is on my side big time. Now, how do I get better at this point knowing that she wants to date while I'm laying horizontal with a scalpel in me? She clearly has no love for me at all anymore. I have nothing BUT love for her.

Does anyone feel my pain? How do I battle with this and come out victorious. How do I settle with the fact that 15 years and 2 beautiful children later, she wants to date? She wants a divorce to make her date legal. Wow! How huge is this?

Scary1 - help me stay in check here. I'm loosing it! Please help me understand why she's choosing this path of destruction over the new me and the children's sanity. H E L P M E !

NUGGET! WHERE DID YOU GO???? BRING YOUR 2x4 BACK PLEASE!!!!!!! HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do I survive this major operation without her by my side. How do I endure the pain of recovery without the one I love?

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hibiscous,

Breathe, be still in yourself. Find a calm place and think on it. Breathe. There is a thread on here called be still, find it and read it. I know its hard, I know your panic, but breathe, and find yourself.

[[[hibiscous]]]

WOW !

This is a bit of a surprise. Is she really ready for dating?

If that is the case then the only thing I can say is that she needs to be honest with you. Not in any one of your threads did I see that you say she doesn't love you anymore. (Maybe I missed it). If she did mention it, and meant it honestly, i can then only say that you will be fighting a losing battle.

For yourself, I can only say that your health is important and you have to think about your actions for your childrens sake. I know it's painful but unfortunately you cannot make someone love you.

Your wife might be searching for something she hasn't found yet.
Unfortunately it's in the wrong place. At the moment for me, it's better the devil you know than the one you don't.

Hubs, you have to be strong. This is not the end of the road for you. You just have to take a different path. Love doesn't just lie down and die when you want it too. You need to make peace with her decision for now. I'm thinking that she will come around sometime unless she has been emotionally unattached for a long time.

Victory is already yours, you've overcome the battle to change for the better !

Please don't take this the wrong way, but do you know who she's dating. Is this new or was something happening before. Forgive me if I am wrong, but I smell a rat...

You need to be strong for yourself and your kids. This is her loss. Unfortunately we don't have the power to change someones feelings but we have the power to control our own feelings. Why don't you try to channel your energy into something else, to temporarily take your mind of things. Spend more time with your kids, instead of trying to solve this on your own. The more you occupied the less time you will have to dwell on this.

My heart breaks for you but I also know that you will overcome this. In some of your previous posts you said that you were preparing yourself for a life without her. Now is the time to focus on that... If she comes back she will be gaining much more than she ever bargained for...or maybe regret that she didn't take more time to make her decision.

As for myself, I have seen the changes my husband made and I am feeling better everyday. I have decided to work on the "testing" idea and might just be going home soon. Unfortunately I'm only human, and more than often I convince myself that it could be the biggest mistake I make. Like I said before, my hearts in turmoil.

Good luck