Thanks hon....we can use all the prayers we can get....lol....and right back atcha.....


I will tell you, this road is even more difficult than the other. Not so much up and down stuff....but the resentment stuff....whew....VETS can tell us, but man I never knew....

BUT I will say it has all been good.....even the crappy stuff. Some of it we trying new ways to resolve our issues, so that is fun. I say fun, because it really amazes me how much better we come out of it....

Anyway, keep your spirits up...

not2fun

ok,,,,did ya all miss me????

Well, WS and I went to the mall today for some window shopping and lunch. It was nice and what we needed after the whole necklace crap. I think the mall is where we go to kind of get us back on track. We have many pleasant "recent" memories there.....

Anyway, Mimi and Cat you are both right......

No I do not want the WS. Yet, I do not want my "old" H back either. Remember, I was very open from the beginning that our M sucked. For BOTH of us. Neither of us had EN'S met for a VERY VERY LONG TIME....

Now, do I want him to do all the crap he did for her...HE77 no...

There are some things that kind of boggle my mind. BUT yet some of the things he did for her, he COULDN'T do for me because of money issues....he had just begun his business and it started thriving RIGHT before the A started.

Now about the card issue....let me clarify this....

Ok my H hardly ever gave cards, a waste of money according to him. He also did not like to RECEIVE them from me...for the same reason. The second to the last time I gave him one, he didn't acknowledge it and when I brought it up (I had put in his truck for him to get in the morning....) he just kinda mumble "thanks, but don't do that anymore. Its a waste of money."

Now, for me I LOVED getting them, but even more so I LOVED buying them for others. I did it all the time. After that, I was so hurt, I never did it again. And for the most part I stopped giving them as well. I know NOW that I should have told him in a calm but loving manner how his reaction made me feel and hurt me...but I didn't know then.

So, yes, it rather "bothers" me that they exchanged cards quite often. AND that he had a WHOLE stash of them for future use......I mean the long mushy kind....

Now, if he were to get me a card tomorrow, I probably would have a hard time with it.


Now, I think the hardest thing I am dealing with is all the words and expressions of love exchanged in the emails, tm's, and such. And I can only IMAGINE what it was like when they were together......

Anyway, that is something I TRULY AND DEARLY need (not sure which EN it falls under....). H was not like that with me rarely. To be honest, in the past few years (and he knows this) I have questioned his love for me......I know ACTION SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS....but sometimes I NEED the words.....that's why I was so happy when he said he loved me when we were out riding 2 weeks ago......

Now, its funny this all came up because I asked WS if he was feeling "normal" yet. He asked what I meant. I said that he seems to be returning to his "old" self. He asked if that was a good thing or a bad thing. I kind of chuckled and said well, actually you seem to be returning to your "old" self, but with some added improvements.... .....

And the respect thing, I get that also. Before all fo this, I did not have any respect for myself. I have gained that since all of this. And when it takes a dip or two I have a couple of things I know to do to help raise it......though I will say I sometimes wonder if I am sacrificing my self-respect in order to be with him. It also doesn't help that most of those that "were" close to me seem to have lost their respect for me.

But that is ok, because WS and I will get through this and have a better M than ever. Which is why I am doing this in the first place. I love this man. I have always loved him (even when it doesn't make sense.... ;)). I believe in him........and I believe that he is truly trying to do everything he can to get this right....

not2fun

oh.....

And I am "trying" to remember that he is an addict....

I am "trying" to remember the whole alien/drunk stuff....

I am "trying" to focus on the positive......really I am.....

and yes I wish this whole thing would just go away.....I am tired of cleaning up the "residue"....and I am tired of wondering whether or not they have broken NC....tired of wondering whether or not I am getting a "performance" or the real thing.....

And to be fair and honest....he is DOING his part. Has he messed up??? You betcha...(I am STILL upset over him using her company for mailers.....)..But he is trying really really hard. Even when I don't handle things right, he has been the one to come and offer the "white flag". To try and get it back on track....

And to be fair and honest....I have made many of my own mistakes during all of this. It would be UNFAIR for me to say otherwise......in fact, I myself have lied to him about smoking when I know FULL WELL the damage it causes.....

And I know that the reason he gaslights me of stuff is because of my LB's. Not because he is still in contact or because he is "pining" for her......Its my reactions.....and I am the one saying that...not him.....

I haven't had a good handle on the LB's lately.....I admit it....

not2fun

and NO I am not getting any sleep....its been a restless night for me.....


not2fun

Not, I understand this completely. One of the biggest hurts for me in early recovery was knowing that he wrote "love" letters to both OW while I had never received a single on during our 25 years of marriage! I cried and railed about this to my husband at first.

He said "Princess, I understand how this hurt you. But if I were to write you a letter now, after you've practically demanded one, it wouldn't be true because I would feel like I was being forced to do it. You wouldn't believe me. What good would that do?" I finally let it go and accepted that I had my husband back and that my "real" husband didn't write love letters.

Mimi is right though, those "words" that your H said, texted or wrote, were based on fantasy and were not honest. It was the same for the letters my H wrote.

By the way, I was wrong about my "real" husband. The husband that returned to me is a much better man but it didn't happen over night. It was about two years into recovery when my husband handed me a long hand-written "love" letter. I cried, because it was straight from his heart, not contrived, or based on a fantasy.

If you will just hang in there Not and be patient, everything that was "stolen" from you will be returned better than you ever expected.

EXACTLY..this is what I THINK, too...

Hey Princess,

Thanks for the encouragement. And its good to see ya....

I think I really struggle with this quote above. Mimi and I have talked about it at length.....me accepting him.

I find it hard to understand "why" I have to change things about me that were not "natural" for me persee and yet I am supposed to "accept" him. Some days I get it, some days I don't.

Now, no my WS was NEVER a love letter writer. EVER. Seriously. But as far as some of the things he did for her, many would consider "over-the-top". Well, I will say he has ALWAYS been this way, and I have reap the rewards of this MANY TIMES OVER. It is sometimes embarassing (but I do love it.... :D) during Xmas because he spoils me so bad......and when we were dating, he left me flowers and balloons in my car almost once a week. And he was only 18......

Now, let me tell you the most touching thing he has ever done for me.....

We had only gone on 1 date but we really like each other. We saw each other through my work so it wasn't like we hadn't seen each other, but we were still at the "trying to get to know each other, but like what we do know so far" stage. Anyway, one night I was leaving work and there was a piece of paper stuck in my windshield. I got it out and it was a Xmas (we started dating in Dec. My H can still tell you the date of our first date...) card that he had made for me. It was so sweet. It wasn't mushy or lovey-dovey, just plain sweet. Anyway, I still have that card and I attached a ornament hook to it and now it goes on our Xmas tree EVERY year (even this year....).

So, anyway, I know the romance is in him....and I have seen bits and pieces of it. And yes its a matter of patience....and what you said your H said was dead on....WS has said things like that many times in the past....

And right now we have concentrated more on just having fun and reconnecting....and I have to say we are more connected right now than we have been in years......

not2fun

Ps...Mimi....thanks girl. I know your my cheerleader (and butt-kicker.....)

[/quote]


I never looked at it this way.....this sums things up pretty well...I like this.....

not2fun

Good morning everyone......


Well, this has been a rough rough week for us. As life is getting back to "normal" around here, I find that that in its self is scary. WS is working hard to get his business back in shape. He's back to doing seminars, which is turning out well. He's also very busy with appointments, which is VERY good, because that is how he makes the money. I as very proud of his taking the reigns here to get that back in shape. It will probably take us the rest of the year to dig us out of the hole he got us in, BUT I have every confidence and faith he will do so.

Of course, with him finally getting a full work load on, it leaves us shorter on time for "us". Which has made me very nervous. This is how it started. That scares me. Now, I will conceded that WS is making good use of the time we DO have together. And it probably doesn't help that I am still on summer break, so I have loads more free time on my hands. We also spent SO much time together early on in recovery, that it is hard not to miss that.....But I will back at work in 2 1/2 weeks, so that will help me immensely.

We do well with the meeting EN'S part, but the LB'S....well they are much harder. I find I am ok with not doing those, until I get a few too many thrown my way. MC had educated us well on the EN'S, not so much the LB'S. I know more about those, but WS doesn't. I suppose it is time for us to look closer at those, as it seems at this time each deposit we make keeps getting withdrawn.

Anyway, I am looking forward to the weekend, as we have had an exceptionally busy week.

not2fun

Not,

Have you read FILSIL?

Do you own a copy?

Any chance your husband would read it with you?

The neat thing about FILSIL is that it lays out the Basic Concepts, then describes ENs, has you do the ENQ and share the results and sign off on agreeing to meet them for each other.

Next it addresses Love Busters and gives some practical help with how to do away with them.

Mark

Hey Mark,

It so good to hear from you.....

No I have not read that one. I started to, but didn't get past the first chapter. We got a copy of it when we went on that marriage retreat.

Would he read it with me??? I don't know, but it doesn't hurt to ask....maybe I will approach it tonight.

Like I said, we are doing well, but sometimes I find it hard to gauge....

WS mentioned my "expectations" being too high last night....isn't that a laugh...me with high expectations.....

not2fun

He's RIGHT!! I was thinking the same thing before you said it.

Don't push him to read a book.

Continue to focus on enjoying each other.

It hasn't even been 3 months has it?

Full withdrawal...3 to 6 MONTHS!!

I won't push it, but I will ask if he is interested. Of course, I may set myself up for resentment by doing that. If he were to say No, I would see that as him not wanting to "work" on the M....need to change my POV on that...


NC will be 3 months on the 6th......


not2fun

TJ/

Mimi and Not and others? Could you guys please go over to Espirit's thread and help her out. Her FWH is HOME and she's about to give birth. She's trying to rush recovery big time and I think she could use some pointers. Thanks!

/TJ

You are NOWHERE in RECOVERY, NOT...

It's way too early to have ANY EXPECTATIONS...

My H did not finish WITHDRAWAL until 6 months..NOT NORMAL until a WHOLE YEAR...

Come on, Not..

You are having HIGH EXPECTATIONS...

ENJOY..ENJOY..GO FOR A RIDE..DON'T GIVE A FLYING FLIP...CLEAN HOUSE..ORGANIZE..

TAKE YOUR FOCUS OFF OF HIM..FOCUS ON YOURSELF!!

Preach it Mimi!

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2032593&fpart=1


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074574&fpart=1


ok here are my first two posts. Mark told me many months ago how to supply the link, but I finally got around to it....(better late than never, eh Mark....). Anyway, the first one is actually my second thread and the second one is my beginning....if that doesn't confuse ya...


not2fun

Good morning folks....

Well, I am posting an update. Things are going well. WS and I had a pretty good weekend. WE did have a "blimp" on friday, but all ended well. Sat was good and sunday was great.

WS bought me some shelves I was admiring at Costco. I saw them a couple of weeks ago. He had asked me about them, and I told him I really liked them. He asked me where I would put them and I told him of the place I had in mind. I never asked for them though. Actually, I have never asked for much of anything. WS will even attest to that. He said during the whole A mess, that he would never find someone as low-maintence as me.... . Anyway, he went and bought them for me and put them together THAT day. I love them to death......we are also going to get a chair and some lamps for the same room later this week....

We seem to be getting along well. I am continuing to improve on my DS skills.

The only problem we seem to have is his work and home life. He is spending many hours at work trying to get his business back in order (which is going well, he had a great month last month, his first full month back in the swing of things...). He's having a hard time juggling it all. I actually really feel for him. I on the other hand have to deal with my feelings of what his work does to me. I am trying to get better at expressing them without LBing. I don't think WS "understands" them, but as I keep being told, that is his problem to deal with, not mine. All I can do is let him know about it, its up to him to decide what to do about it......

WS got a motorcycle in May and that seems to help a lot in our R. We have spent lots of time on it, which is good. It is a RC need being meet, plus we get to be physically close, but yet not too much talking. Even though conversation falls high on my list, sometimes "not" talking is good too, since sometimes it leads to the dark place we are not ready to go to yet.... . So, all in all the motorcycle has really done a lot to bring us closer. I only wish now that I would have been more for it last year when he talked about getting it.


Now, we did have a bad thing happen to DD 14. I ask for prayers for her and the family. I really do not want to go into details, but hopefully this will serve to bring the family closer.....

Oh, and I did take a stand for my son against his Bball coach. Mimi, you would be proud.....Seems like Not found herself and voice in the A mess and I am not letting it go....lol...

Anywho, I don't have much else to report. Which, may be a good thing.....

not2fun

Good afternoon folks,

Well, the last few days have been much harder for me. Whether it is more anger and pain setting in or what I am not sure. Well, I do know that something happened unrelated to WS/A/M that is taking its toll.

A couple of weeks ago, DD14 spent the night at a friends house. Her friends 19 yrs old brother "touched" her. She did everything right. She went to the bathroom immediately and called me and her dad. We went to go get her and we called the police immediately. The case is going before the DA this week, so hopefully we will hear something this week.

It is hard to believe we are in this position AGAIN, but alas we are. We all seem to be handling it well this time around, only things get a little "murkier" this time around in the eye of the law. Seems the laws are a little different when the victim is 14 and the perp. is 19. This time around DD14 will be under much more scutiny as will the whole family (our home sitch in last few months will also not help, and if this goes very far, will probably be come more public.....ahhhh...another consequence of A's....). This is also a little harder to deal with, as we have known this family for years, the mom is my sis's best friend and my niece spent many nights at their house as well with the younger daughters. So, its a little messy.

Anyway, that stress does not help with all the "other" stress we have all been dealing with, but we will make it.

I have also been having a harder time dealing with the A and everything that went along with it. Especially the fogspeak and things said during. I know its all in the past and can't be undone. I know I need to look at what WS has been doing lately and all the good progress we have made, but it is still sometimes hard. Its weird though because sometimes when we do talk about it (which is NOT OFTEN....I am still too angry and hurt and keeping those pesky LB'S in line on this subject is still too hard) WS sometimes cannot remember thing he said or did during all of this. He even questioned MY remembering, but then when I point out that it is all on record here, he stops that.

I just find it strange that someone could be so cruel and mean, and yet not fully remember it. But then he also tell me he is not proud of those things, which may be why he doesn't remember some of them......who knows.

It is also hard to deal with such things and not take it out on WS. I do not want to do that. He has tried so very very hard to change and correct things between us. He still has a way to go, but I am positive that he will get there.

As far me, well, I am trying. I will admit some days are worse than others. Sometimes, I truly feel like giving up or not working on my changes, but then when I DO go that route, it does not help me feel any better. The fun of sifting through the ashes......

I know it will take time. On a good note, WS seems to be more accepting of MB and the Harley's methods. It probably helped that he did like the concept of EN's, LB's, and the Love Bank when they were presented to him during the A. He even mentioned buying his mom and dad HNHN and Love Busters last night.

I asked him to read the chapter in HNHN on Affection for me. He said he would so we will see.

All in all, things are going well. I still find old posts and threads on here that I hadn't seen before that help. Mel posted on DR. H's stance on complaints, which has helped me a lot lately. Pep posted on Starfish's explaination on Giver/Taker in marriages which REALLY SPOKE to me. Seems like my Giver has been really really bad in this M. Now if I can learn to let my Taker out but not so ragingly.... :RollieEyes:.......

Anyway, just an update....for those who still follow or wonder. I will say again that I had NO IDEA recovery was this hard. But then there are the moments and times that make it all worthwhile and make me most hopeful for the future.....

not2fun

Not,

You have discovered why Plan B becomes necessary...

At some point you have worked so hard to try to get to a chance at recovery only to find out that actual recovery is harder than ending the affair in most cases. Unless you have left something in the tank, entering recovery can end your hope instead of creating more.

So sorry to hear about DD. Hang in there and you and H cling together through this rather than pulling apart over it. I know that my getting sick did more to boost our recovery than any discussion we ever had. Let the trial bring you closer and make you (as in the plural) stronger.

Mark