Ok, I can see there's some barely repressed anger in there. Maybe I'm reading your post wrong but that's how I see it.

I wrote that post to you off my own bat. Granted, it was after reading Lil's thread. Look, I've been in your shoes. Don't forget I was the wayward one.

Do you want Lil to tell you things like that? She'd do anything to open up communication with you both and move forward. If you want to hear all that she's feeling, I'm sure she'll gladly tell you.

I know this "walking on eggshells" stage very well. My H and I had been married 28 years when I had my A and, during recovery, it was the first time we'd ever had to watch what we said to each other. It was horrible.

Edited to add: I was probably a bit harsh last night but I SO want you both to make it. I DO like you, you know but I think you are a tad manipulative and a bit of a charmer. Takes one to know one. I KNOW you want to do the right thing and you've come here to MB which is great. I was so grateful when I arrived at MB. If I hadn't found it my H and I would be divorced. We wouldn't have had a clue what to do. I wouldn't have had a clue.

I learned so much from reading other people's threads. BS's threads. I learned so much from reading the articles on the main site. I learned so much from people who took the time to talk to me.

Yes, a bit of a charmer........ Are all NZ men like that?

Anyway, I will give him credit for maintaining NC, coming back to his rightful place in the home, and making a great effort.

As we all have been mentioning, this stuff takes time.

Are all New Zealand men like that? Hmmmm, there's a certain taciturn ruggedness about them that's quite appealing.

lol, I married an Englishman.

I only know one. And he DID marry a very strong and capable woman. I forget who said they liked strong women. She was my boss, a lieutenant in the Navy, with a degree in business, AND engineering at 25. A lot of the American men didn't like her because she was smart, spoke her mind, and was a bit of a slave driver. But her NZ guy seems to love her - they are still married with 2 sets of twin boys.

TWO sets of twins??? All boys??? OMG she better be strong and capable.

Flick, you know we're all rooting for you and Lil to live happily ever after, right? And preferably with each other... We aren't just trying to bash you. We tell her straight stuff too, remember. Like when she asked you to be open and honest, and then you were, and she complained...

I agree that she should be open and honest with you, not just come here to whine. I don't think that's what she was doing, but maybe it seems that way to you, maybe not. I dunno, just throwing something out there, and I haven't had time to post to her lately so she didn't "send" me here...

I agree with you, that it's a pity Lil couldn't share that with you herself. Do you think she tried, or why do you think she didn't succeed?

Well, I'm not Flick, but I think that she is just very busy, and excited about the wonderful things that Flick is doing, but still a bit cautious.

She is used to getting support here, and it is a habit. As she feels more and more secure with her hubby, she will rely on telling HIM all of her thoughts. This is still all very new.

Yes, I'm not saying she *was* whining to us instead of being O&H with Flick. I'm just wondering what he may think is the reason behind her sharing or not sharing or trying or not trying to share.

How ya doing Flick!

Hi tst,

I am doing just fine. It seems that Lil is having a tough time at the moment, feeling that she is not getting support from her friends in the same way that she has come to expect. But as a couple we are slowly growing back together and starting to be a bit more comfortable with each other.
We are working our way through parts of the MB programme and have done the EN survey and the results are a little bit suprising. Next we are going to look at love busters, Lil asked me to read part of the book but it seems to have been taken off my bedside table, must ask her if she knows where it has gone.

I have maintained NC and have only found my thoughts wandering to the OW a few times, I want to know how she is. I know that I can not find out and I have no intention of trying to contact her but the thoughts are there still there sometimes and I know that with time they will go away.

Lil is getting fed-up with the farm, calving is always a hard time and you always feel like you are working for nothing, delayed gratification on a big scale. I would go and help her but I don't think it is a good idea - we worked together on a previous farm and both agreed to never work together again. I supose I should get back into the kitchen and do the cooking and cleaning for us. I have rather fallen out of the habit of looking after the house. That will take a bit of the work load off Lil.
She asked if I could mow the lawns today, did half of them - the rest can wait till daughter has picked up all of her "mess" from the back lawn.

I don't know if I have mentioned that I have a new cell number, also got a new cell phone that is much nicer than the old one.

Well time is ticking on and Lil will be home soon so I had better get going and start peeling potatoes and cleaning up the lounge.

bye

Good to hear from you Flick! I'm glad to hear that you are reading and implementing the MB material.

Also, must say I think it's a wonderful idea to do some meals. LD will surely be pleased to have that burden taken from her. Sounds like you both are working to build a fulfilling marriage. Have patience, it doesn't happen overnight, but you're on your way!

Keep working on Meeting each others EN's and spending 15 hrs together.
Have you read "Fall in Love, Stay in Love"? If not, then I recommend you read it soon.


I'm glad to hear you completely understand NC and the impact it has on your recovery.

15 hours? We do that easily. We have always spent a lot of time together, but now we focus on "enjoyable" time together and it is not hard to do. I wish we had known how important it was when we first got married.
As for reading "fall in love stay in love" I'll give it a go, I think that wonderful wife of mine has got a copy of it here somewhere.


The more I learn about the way an A develops and maintains its appeal, the more I understand why I can not contact the OW.

Lil told me the other day was three weeks scince I came home. It seems like longer, we have made some big progress in that time, there's a lot more to do still, but we are mostly happy together now.

Well must go and get ready to go to town with Lil, we have to go and see the accountant and the bank and then to lighten the mood a nice cup of coffee and maybe a spot of lunch.

Glad to see you still posting. I hope you will come to feel comfortable here. Sounds like you are doing all of the right things.

Please let us know when you no longer feel concerned about the OW. I'm just curious because you are an actual live WH. I want to know the timeline. If you don't feel comfortable sharing, that is okay too.

Flick - I saw this by another poster - Schoolbus - she has a way with words and I wanted you to see this -

Is the OW "right and good"? Is she that perfect fantasy that you nuked your marriage for?

Nope.

Here's why.


That OW is someone who came into your life and made sure that she attracted you. You saw her as a love candidate, and you were married. She KNEW you were married.

I wonder - would you want a wife who has no regard for marital vows? Your OW has none. She lacked regard for YOURS. She did not care that you were married.

If you ended up with her, married her, she would bring that attitude into that marriage. Something to consider. Not "good".

Your OW, did she consider your children, and the impact her presence in your marriage might have on them? IMHO, any person who intrudes on a marriage that has children involved, has no moral standing. She was willing to put herself and her own selfish desires above YOUR CHILDREN and their needs, Not. ABOVE THEM. You should never choose anyone who would put themselves above your children - that alone tells you a great deal about her character. Neither "right" nor "good".

How often did your OW say negative things about your BW? About how much better a woman she is than your BW? She said those things in order to drive your wife out of your life, to help you push your wife away - make you hate your wife in your mind - drive a wedge into your marriage, in her selfish desire to "have" you, not to "love" you. There is a difference, you know. Not "right", and no, not "good".



And that fantasy...............

OW was always able to get herself ready for you, had time to shower and dress up. Your wife? She woke up in the real world with you, sometimes in work clothes, sometimes from painting the garage, sometimes from digging in the garden...

OW was always able to put on the candles before you got there, and clean the house. Your wife? She was doing great to have your dinner ready between getting the kids to dance class and catching the dog that got out the gate yet again, and oh, since you forgot to pick up milk on your way home she ran and got it, and "somebody" broke the toilet paper holder again so she fixed that...

OW gave you hand-made love cards every time you met for secret sex rendevous. Your wife?

She made love to you that first time you two were together - remember where and when that was? How you felt then? Make your mind go there - it's reality and THAT IS LOVE.

She bought that sexy outfit once that didn't stay on long and ohhhh she looked great - remember that? And you two made love...that's reality and THAT IS LOVE.

She wrote you love notes once and twice and three times, and more, and you read them and remember them, and probably have them stashed somewhere. She has given you gifts over the years for birthdays and Christmases and "just because", and you kept some and laughed at some and don't even know what happened to others. She lost your socks and stayed up with you when you were sick.

She raised your children.

She probably wrecked one of your cars.

Or you wrecked hers!

She shared more than one laugh with you, and a thousand tears.

And she has stood next to you in the best of times, and is standing right there now, in the very worst of them.

Your OW........gone. Because she was a fantasy, and for all the reasons you can see and more............

Your wife is reality.

Your wife is love.


You make a choice every day about love. You accept it or reject it. You give it or take it.

If there is one thing I have figured out about love, is that it is found where you GIVE it.

Odd little fact.

Ok, wow.
I took a few exerpts from this to show my H. I've tried to tell him that her lack of regard for our children should have made some impact on him but he never seemed to really 'get' that. Maybe if it is coming from someone else he'll see it's not just my jaded impression of her. Oh that dumpy red-head!! Sorry///had to get that out.

fiori-

SB has an advanced degree in linguitsics and seems to always nail it.

This post by her hit me hard because my ex always thought the OW was so wonderful. She said that her 12 year old daughter was the most important thing in the world to her, but she abandoned her to live with my husband for three years.

After D-day I asked him how a good woman could go after a married man. That is just never anything most women would do.

And I had frequent contact with OW's betrayed husband who was fighting in Iraq at the time of the affair. When he got home, he told me that his wife woke him up at 4:00 in the morning by showering and blow drying her hair. She was getting ready to go out to breakfast with my husband.

And that is why SB's post spoke to me.

It has been a long time since I posted anything and Lil is getting a bit grumpy about that.

I have been away a little bit and that has kept me off the internet, but mostly I have been playing with my new motor bike.
I have also been rather depressed over the last week or so, the death of my foster father just over 3 months ago is still the source of lots of sorrow and very gloomy thoughts, I just can't quite come to grips with the idea that he is dead. I have just started to sort through his house and it really is a bit to much to deal with sometimes.

Lil was doing her best to help sort through some papers the other night and she came across a letter that a previous fiance had writen to father after I left her. I had no idea that she had written the letter and when I read it I could not beleive how guilty I felt for what I had put her through. The similarity between that situation and my recent A really struck me. Yes I had an A when I was with my former fiance, I do not think she knew about it (she never said anything) but I know it killed our relationship. She was (most likely still is) a wonderfull woman, very pleasing to the eye and smart too, very similar to Lil. I have sent an email to her (well someone with the same name) to see if it is her and if it is I will send her another email to tell her that my foster father has passed away (she was fond of him), just incase she is interested, but mostly I want to let her know how sorry I am for putting her through so much pain and I will tell her that there was an A during our relationship and that I am sorry. I have told Lil that I am doing this and I think she understands that is something that I feel I must do. I feel like I need to apollogise for the things I did wrong in the past, I feel like if I don't go back and say sorry for the previous A then I can't be honest with myself about the recent A. I am being open with Lil about my contact with my ex-fiance.

I am going away this weekend, with a bunch of guys from church. We are all going to "Promise Keepers" a big conference about how to live a good Christian life and be a great husband. I feel like a fraud to even think about going, I almost wish I could just back out of it. "Me a Christian?" some advertisment I am! What a joke.

I don't find myself thinking about the OW so much any more, maybe I'm getting over it or maybe I just have so much else to fill my head with that she has been pushed to the side. When I do think of her I do not have a feeling of wanting to contact her, I just want to know if her situation is turning out alright, I ran in to some old work mates the other day and I could have asked them but I did not, I know that if I ask other people how OW is fairing then it is just the same as picking up the phone and ringing her - I can't go down that road again, Lil would never forgive me and there is a very good chance that I would never forgive myself.

I went and got the tests done for a bunch of STIs or STDs or VDs (depending on when and where you went to school) and the results for most of them came back today, so far so good. Crossing my fingers now that the last one comes back clear as well.

Well that's all for now.

Hey Flick,

Good to hear from you again!



Doesn't sound like you had POJA on this before it was done. All decisions need to be subject to POJA or they are Love Busters like "Selfish Demands" and "Independent Behavior"
LINK





Read Psalm 51

Enjoy your trip to PK and remember that EVERY man there is a sinner.

Flick,
Even Christians make mistakes...don't be so hard on yourself.

Oh, Promise Keepers will be great! I do look at you as an honorable man, at least what I know of you through your wife's eyes.

My dad died last Novemeber and I am still very sad about it and think of and miss him daily. It takes a long time to feel any better.

Hang in there, Flick, and keep doing what you are doing.