And, FWIW, I think that the Zombie was NOT textbook. I don't think he was a garden-variety romantic affair wayward spouse. He was/is more seriously broken than that.

Hi everyone!

Sorry for not being able to respond today, but it's a bit crazy at work. 2 hour conference calls really mess up my day, not to mention my MB posting time!

Ok, I emailed Steve and update and left him a VM. I am sure it will be next week before I hear back, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. I think I can manage using the previous coaching he gave me. (I hope! )

There's so much in your posts that I want to respond to - I hope I don't miss anything!

From my previous conversations with Steve, it is about laying out the breadcrumbs for Drac to follow YET also letting him do the actual Pursuit of me.

PM, it will be done however I think will work best, but it was to 'start' with little hints and comments leading up to asking him to give Steve an hour of his time. Comments like "have you ever thought about there being an 'us' again". I asked that question last night and it was a Yes from Drac.

Last night, though, wasn't yet the time to take that next step to the call with Steve. I think we both needed to get things out there. As Lexxxy has said, Drac needs to feel 'safe'. It's not going to happen with just one nice conversation. Also, I need to see continued signs of interest from him to believe his interest is real, too.

About the 'liquid courage', it wasn't what Drac had lead me to believe. That was a 'cover' just in case he was rejected. The friend that he was with told me they each had 4 beers. For Drac, that's a drop in the bucket.

About the meeting next week, yes I think you are right Fox in that he is concerned with his 'image', but I also think that was a bit of a 'cover' as well. A way to work me into a friendly position with him under the cover of work. When he asked me what we should do, my reply was "I feel no need to do anything. I don't care what anyone else thinks. It's none of their business. If it gives them pleasure to gossip, that's on them. I don't need or require their approval in my personal life."

Oh, don't you all worry - I TOTALLY see the degree of 'self' in his comments along with his own little pity party he was throwing. I wasn't blind to it at all. Nor was I blind to how important my responses were in that regard. I was going for what Lexxxy commented on,,,,giving him comments to help him see that he can be forgiven and this can be fixed. He doesn't yet believe that. For the next step to happen, he needs to believe it is possible.

Mimi, your input with the comparison to your H is so helpful to me!! thank you!

At the same time, I was trying very hard to keep my boundaries. I was totally honest about the pain & suffering I have endured. I was totally honest about everything.

Including how he was losing Ladybug. THAT right there, the fact that he RECOGNIZED he was losing her because of the HO and that he did something about it is very KEY to my believing this is for real.

Also, when I was being honest with him about what he's done, how I feel/felt, he did not try to argue or excuse his actions/behavior. I think that also goes to the plus column for it being for real.

So, I think more time is needed for him to believe in the possibilities. I left him with that thought - telling him to believe in possibilities.

Today, I've heard nothing from him. I think he may be a bit skiddish after everything last night. I sent a friendly, but factual email a short while ago about kid stuff. I wanted to keep the door open a bit, but not overly invite him in (even though it's hard not to).

And God in Heaven Thank you Thank you - - and thank YOU all for my being 'prepared' for that conversation!! I would have TOTALLY
screwedmessed it up otherwise!!

I intend to continue to proceed with Caution. And, at the same time, I'm carrying on with 'my' life. I am making plans for an out of town Girl Trip over Labor Day weekend. He will have the kids.

I haven't told anyone besides you all about last night. I'm not ready to try to 'defend' or discuss my position on this with anyone outside MB. I know I 'want' recovery, but a lot of the actual forward movement of that depends on Drac.

I'm more hopeful today than since that dreaded DDay. For that I am extremely thankful. And, as Fox said, even if recovery doesn't happen, to have had the conversation we had last night helps a great deal. I KNOW he's realizing what he has lost.

Time will tell if he's willing to work to get it back.

And actually, he's not getting back what he lost. He'd bet getting something and someone BETTER than before!!

Love ya all!!!

EXACTLY!! That's what I was thinking...

I think he needs to do some more SUFFERING..waiting for YOU to call him..DON'T...

Like you have said and as suggested by Steve, let him PURSUE..

I think he's probably waiting for YOU now and when you don't start CHASING, he will WORRY and that's what he NEEDS to do..WORRY...come up with some other reason to reach out to you..

Hi Bugs,

I don't have a lot to add...you're getting great advice....just dropping by to let you know that for a 'bunch of us' you are in our thoughts, and even though we may only be lurking, we are rooting for you...all the way!

You are doing GREAT!

((((((((((((((((((BUGS)))))))))))))

don't mean to t/j Bugsy...I am doing well. I'll post an update soon.

You are doin' mah-ve-lous!

I will be praying for you.

Wow Bugs. You have been there and back. I have read your posts. And I am glad things are looking better for you. Everyone has given great advice and support. I just wanted to let you know I am happy for you.

Bugs,

Be sure he has met all your conditions before you let him return.

While he may be a broken man, he might not have hit bottom yet.

I don't want to rain on the party here, but please go slowly with all of this. It is so easy to get wrapped up in the excitement of an opportunity and when it doesn't play out like it should have we either get more depressed or worse...

We try to force it into what it is not.

You have an opportunity, don't waste it.

But you also need to make sure you are not settling for the old status quo or you'll be back here in a few years...

Or your resentment will eat you alive...

Decide based on FACTS rather than feelings.

Sorry to rain on the parade...

Mark

Thank you, Mark... because this is exactly what we count on here... help from the Board to keep the 'facts' straight!

Sorry for the t/j Bugs.

Eph, I am looking forward to that update from you!

APF - thanks for stopping in and for the support!

Mark, no apologies are necessary. I didn't take it that you were raining on my parade at all.

You are just helping me watch out to keep me from creating a storm of my own. That's good advice and I appreciate it.

Steve and I talked a lot about that in our last session. I read up on those notes every day and intend to protect myself as much as possible.

What I am doing IS a big risk and there is potential for hurt - I need to tread carefully to keep that level of potential hurt as low as possible at any given moment. As our interactions deepen, that level is going to naturally rise.

Great rewards require great risk. But that doesn't mean it should be done hap-hazardly on my part!

Before I read Mimi's response last night, I had sent Drac an email - I'd passed a park where we went on our first date. I emailed "Just passed the park on X Street. Thought of you. Made me smile".

Drac emailed back about the park and then about the kid stuff about 11:30 last night. I replied to the kids stuff first and it was 'done' with fairly quickly.

His reply on the park "I thought of that night when I drove by there the other day"

I replied, "Really? What did you think about?"

Drac, "The details of the night, how nervous I was, that sorta stuff"

Bugs, "I had no idea YOU were nervous?! I could not believe you were attracted to ME. What would you possibly see in me?!"

Drac, "I felt the same way"

Bugs, "I saw you as an amazingly smart, sensitive guy. Someone who saw me the way I wanted to be, someone believed in me.
You made me feel like I was special. Like I was important, and that I could be/should be a part of something wonderful - a part of his life".

No reply from Drac. While I was honest, I wish I had replied MORE about what I saw in him, what I found attractive about him VS how he made me feel. But, what's done is done. Next time I'll do better.

While a tad disappointed to get no reply, I'm not too surprised. I think it's going to be a bit of a game of cat & mouse for a while and I must be careful not to overplay this. I think he 'needed' to be the one to not reply because during the 'something to talk about' conversation the other night *I* was the one that stopped replying without stating the conversation was finished.

That's ok

Other than I had a nightmare last night that the HO was back. UGH! I'm not going to let it ruin my day. I have total yard work day planned today. Am starting early as I have plans out tonight.

Have a great Saturday!

Bugs,

Without a doubt you are walking a tight rope that borders with emotions and intellect. You have worked hard for this opportunity, studied, learned, asked questions and sought G-d.

You are getting some amazing advice on here, some that is what you want to hear, and then some probably not, but just as appreciated.

I am amazed at your restraint to not just walk forward and the heck with the advice of taking it slowly, but then I understand you or anyone else doesn't want this to be false or blow up in your face a few years from now.

So, KISS, keep is simply silly. EASY DOES IT. Let Go, Let G-d and know that G-d has a plan for you. HIS PLAN is beyond your wildest imaginations because you have been loyal to HIM. TRUST him, walk in FAITH with HIM, because he loves you more than you understand and he will give you everything you NEED.

You are the PRESIDENT of our GODDESS society, we love you and are just so proud of how you are doing this. Why, just think there could be another book on the horizon from the Harleys' using YOU as the example. That's how strong, amazing and inspiring your walk is today.

{{{{{{{{{{BUGS}}}}}}}}}}

Bugsy:

This is great news.

Many of the same things came from me and were said by Flamingo on D-day.

Different circumstances, possibly you can have a similar ending.

About "liquid courage" I know that you backed off of this, but remember, the "drunk man says what the sober man thinks"

And you note that "he only had 4 beers, which isn't much for Drac", I would give GREAT PAUSE to continuing with Drac without his drinking being addressed.

You read Silent's story, so, you don't want Drac back and then have him turn into a Zombie.

You have dropped enough bait. Take it slow, respond to him, and offer a little more each time.

Keep your list of WHAT he has to do to reconcile in your pocket, for now. Bugs was ALWAYS fixing stuff, right? This is HIS to fix. You have your boundaries, and those have to be met. ANd you will KNOW when its time to either give him the list and/or tell him what steps you will require.

Its really great news. No matter WHAT I might be saying above, this is really great news.

LG

Hey Queenie!

Thanks for the sweet, sweet post! Just don't go getting too carried away now! I am really just doing the best I can and making mistakes along the way. I don't think we're anywhere close to being 'book' material!

LG,

Thanks for the wise words.


This is good to know. Gives me hope. Of coure the outcome depends on the level of sincerity and commitment that will need to come from Drac.


Or as we were discussing at church last week, "out of the heart, the mouth speaks".




Please let me clarify this. I didn't mean that 4 beers isn't much because Drac drinks a lot. I meant that if he were 'blaming' the alcohol for the things he was saying, 4 beers isn't enough to loosen his tongue that much. He's a BIG guy and it takes more than 4 beers for him be what I'd call an 'emotional' drunk.

I appreciate the caution, and most certainly don't need to have SL's sitch repeated here.


Well, this speaks to the title of my post today. I made a mistake, and it could be considered a pretty major one. I worked outside ALL day yesterday and perhaps I can blame it on 'heat stroke'? I had this nagging thought all day long and ended up acting on it when I should not have.

Last night had plans to go out with a group of friends. It's somewhere that Drac and I went when we first met. I kept thinking about his wanting things to be like when we first met. So,,,,,,I left him a message saying that I'd be there with friends if he wanted to come by.

I was drying my hair when he returned the message and so I missed the call. He said that having a couple of drinks with me sounded really good, but he'd had a really bad day. He had planned to go to his dad's with the kids in the afternoon, but had ended up having to work. He took the kids with him in the morning, and Dad had picked them up after Dad got off work mid day. He was on his way to Dad's.

He said that while it sounded fun, he didn't think that he wanted to go out with a group of friends. He'd like go out with just the 2 of us so that we can have a chance to talk.

So,,,,,,,,,,it while it was TOO forward on my part to invite him. I "think" that it turned out OK. He has said he wants to spend time with me one on one and that he wants to Talk.

That's good, right?

Of course, it really depends on what he wants to talk About.

I have no thoughts/idea of when or how this might happen. I PROMISE you all and myself that I am going to WAIT for HIM to invite ME for this.

With this week's crazy schedule, I seriously doubt that it can happen before the work meeting Thursday. I wish it could happen before that.

So, I went on out with my friends last night and had a really good time. I wasn't out late, as I was too exhausted from all of the work/heat. I talked to the kids who confirmed they were all spending the night at Grandpa's last night. Ladybug can't wait to get home. She's been "really missing you Mommy" all week and counting down the days to today on every phone call.

I woke before 5 a.m. this morning. I've walked the dog, shocked the pool, am doing laundry, and have pulled weeds 1/2 way around the pool already! Let's hope I can continue being that productive today!!

Please, guys,,,,,,,,,,don't beat me up too badly on the invite to Drac. I KNOW it was a big mistake.

Bugs,

I sit here with tears streaming down my face and my children are asking me what is "wrong." I think there are many others reading your post with tears flowing. I have read your thread since joining, and I shed tears of joy with the others. Yes, it may be just a flicker of a flame for now, but even a flicker sheds much light in darkness for others to see their way.

I rejoice with you Bugs and I rejoice myself because it has helped to renew my hope that I may see the same some day.

Thank you for sharing yourself and leading the way for many of us on this long journey.

Tired

Bugs,

A mistake? Probably, but I'm of the opinion that if he REALLY wants to come back home, that invite isn't going to discourage him. Just go dark again and let him invite you out for the next one.

And I don't blame him for not wanting to be with a bunch of girls. Right now, he is probably embarrassed by this whole A thing and the fact that he did make a mistake and now knows it all too well, and perhaps maybe sensitive to what your friends think of him right now too. He's saving face I believe. It will take a long while before he is comfortable being with you in front of others. Does that make sense?

Hi Bugs,

Good to hear to enjoyed your night out with friends.


...think CL is right, Bugs. I wouldn't worry too much about it...

...the 'ball' is in his court... wait for his 'serve'...

(((((((((((BUGS)))))))))))))

((((Bugsy)))

I do think that it was a MAJOR MISTAKE on your part.

I've been THINKING about this and can't figure out what happened with you.

No need to BEAT yourself up about it, though.

Drac's RESPONSE is GREAT NEWS..so APPROPRIATE and NORMAL from him, indicating that he DOES want to RECOVER..because that is EXACTLY what is necessary FIRST, a one on one conversation between the two of you and that DOES need to HAPPEN and you need to be PREPARED for that in terms of being able to speak to him about how RECOVERY IS POSSIBLE.

But, Bugsy, are YOU READY for RECOVERY?

IT IS NOT FUN AND GAMES...

IT IS THE ONE OF THE HARDEST THINGS THAT I HAVE EVER DONE...

You will need to FOCUS YOUR LIFE ALMOST ENTIRELY ON YOUR MARRIAGE...

There will be limited contact with your girlfriends...

You may need to get a whole new set of friends or even distance yourself from your family...

It is not REALISTIC and is INSENSITIVE to expect that you can just start back like it was before..you and Drac going out with your GIRLFRIENDS..TOTALLY UNREALISTIC..I'm willing to say IMPOSSIBLE for many YEARS to come...

Get it?

IMO, it would be recommended for you to send him a SHORT note of APOLOGY...because this probably was VERY SCARY for him...

I admire his GUTS almost in proceeding with the idea of meeting with you...

I say this out of LOVE and ADMIRATION for you, Bugsy...

Is this what YOU want to do?

Are you sure?

I'm wanting you to CHECK yourself and figure out what was up with you to ASK him out with your friends??? I just don't get it...

DITTO

Mimi's question is a good one, it will be helpful to you in the future to look at this closer NOW and learn from it... because as she confirms, I can see how it would take a long time for ANY WS to be comfortable again in a 'social setting' such as you were proposing to Drac....

What I hear the pros of M recovery say is... that if personal recovery is like climbing a mountain, M recovery may be comparable to.. a chain of mountains!

...I hear them saying: M recovery may be the toughest gig yet, and if so, do you still want it, Bugs?

Know what Mimi? For as long as I've been here, I still haven't found an effective way to warn spouses about the level of difficulty and the sheer effort and willpower recovery will require. No one expects themselves to experience more and enduring pain and deeper despair once they reach the recovery phase after an affair.

If you discover a way to communicate this - please let me know.

And also a way to communicate the deep and enduring rewards of recovery - in spite of the pain.

Perhaps no one can know until they are "in it" themselves ??

Pep