I meet these girls, online dating sites becsuse convenience, bars, parties, work.

I drink once every week or 2 on the weekends. Thw women it varies. LOngest relationship 19 years. That was the marriage. After that had an 8 months relationship until I had to end it. That leaves me with about 4 months of dating and none went past 3 dates alot 1 date. My choice.

Job over 10 years. At times I like or appreciate the job. For the pay I get and vacation time retirement I cant leave it but it is not exciting.

Help no. Understanding maybe. There is aspect of being single I really like but the thought of a beautiful woman that is nice and understanding for long term intrigues me too. I get the help I need at counseling. I have strong opinions about what women get away with saying and doing to men but nomatter what the man is wrong cause he's a man. Unless ofcourse it's a womans dad.

What is it that you would like to come to a better understanding of?

And emotions shouldn't trump logic either.

Look, if the logic says blue = blue, no amount of emotions are going to make me think blue = red.

You can passionately or emotionally argue that, but blue still equals blue.

I find way too often it seems, that emotions are extremely selfish. Folks want you to share your feelings, but only if they make them comfortable. Or they want to share their feelings, but have no room for the feelings of others.

Folks can do the very same things with logic. However, it doesn't seem a prevalent as those who want an emotional connection, but only if it's the "right" emotions, and only if it's mostly about their emotions.

Logic and emotions should not trump each other. In my opinion, it's just as bad to trump logic with emotions and back folks into an emotional corner by using guilty to shame them from their preference for logic as it is to paint someone into a logical corner.

Either way, it's selfish.

Steve - I think you're full of it, and unless I've violated the terms of agreement for this site, I will continue to post what I think.

Your perspective smacks of a faux cynicism reminiscent of boys who claim to be worldly and experienced. It sounds like locker room talk. In reality, I think that as long as you approach women and relationships from an adversarial point of view, you're doomed to 3 date relationships or at best, clingy women who will accept your behavior because they're needy.

My opinion is formed from the words you write here. If I'm wrong, then perhaps you should consider refining your communication technique.

I want people to start understanding that it's not alraight to put men in no win situations that are designed to fail either on purpose or not. I want to see all guys that have been in relationships be treated fair and judged fair and not on a sliding guy scale. I want it to be known that failed relationships that women are 50% at fault.

Abuse and things like that I'm not talking about. Never will say that's right and should be addressed and fixed asap. I want people to know what a lot of guys have to go through dealing with over dramatic momen. Some get away with it like its ok.
If a female ends a relationship everyone says good for you you deserve it.

If a guy ends it. He is a snake nomatter what he had to deal with. I was looking for understanding myself on this to see why it happenes that way. One thing I can say though when a guy ends it it's the females friends that do the convicing.

Enlightened shame and guilt are wrong unness someone hurt someone then they should feel shame and guilt, there is also common sense.

seabird, I'm full of it. Are you saying I'm a liar or wrong on something. I've upped the stakes to try to find less clingy women. Sometimes its hard to tell right away. The girl I was trying for saturday night was one such woman. Very pretty and I had 2 other guys competing for her. I was drunk and lighting 2 cigarettes and handing her one when she dont smoke was a slight setback but later she pulled up a chair and it seamed to go good. However I texted her today to say hi and got no reply. Not good. The jd made me sloppy. It was a reunion though and some experienced partiers. So time will tell on this one. She was pretty and not needy. If I'm full of it because of my examples and stories I give you definatly dont want to hear my high school ones.,

What I was refering to had nothing to do with consenting adults. You basically said you wanted to date so you wouldn't have to go without sex. In other words, your scoping these women out as potential sex partners. That is hardly respectful and women that "consent" to this do so in part because they have little self respect of their own.

For the record, I do quite well with the opposite sex.

I think that I can understand why you would want others to agree with your view and have their behavior reflect it. However, different people have different views and perspectives. Some people even want to be in a no-win situation. Imho, that's their call and not for me to judge. The question, as I see it, is what do you want? And then, how do you go about doing the things that will put you in the best position to get it (without bringing harm to yourself or others in the process)?


Sharing with others about your experience with women who are, in your view, over dramatic can help those who share your view and find themselves in a similar situation. However, there are those who prefer women like that and, for them, it IS ok. Imho, that's their call and not for me to judge. The question, as I see it, is how do you become less attractive to those women and become more attractive to the women you would want to spend time with?


You were trying for a woman who pulled up a chair to spend time with someone (you) who was sloppy drunk. If you are in the habit of becoming drunk, I would tell you that intoxication and/or alcoholism typically involves a lot of drama and to just accept it or change your drinking habits. If you're not in the habit of becoming drunk, then I would recommend not dating anyone who became attracted to you while you were intoxicated. Do you see why I have that view?


In my experience, board trolls can look and sound similar to posters who are in a tremendous amount of pain. Others have a different view and many of them have been "burned" by board trolls before. I would rather risk being played by a troll than ignore someone who is reaching out to others the best that they can in their pain. Trolls tend to leave rather quickly if they don't create enough drama on the board to make it worth their while to stay. If you are a legitimate poster, then just keep posting so that others can come to that conclusion.


Take care

Take this latest example for instance... You execute the same failed pursuit tactics and continue to complain about the quality of women you're reeling in.

Has it occurred to you that perhaps the kind of woman who'd be interested in a drunk guy in a bar, might not be the kind of woman you'd want to date long term? One night stand or casual hook-up maybe, though that's probably one funky sandbox to be playing in IMO.

Who cares if a woman is overly-dramatic and a pain in the butt? That's her problem. Enforce your own boundaries and step away from it. If that's all you seem to be attracting, you might want to consider fishing in a different kind of pond, or at least try some different bait.

You are right that men shouldn't have to tolerate that kind of behavior. Who says they do? But you tend to generalize about them and instead of simply saying, "I don't have to expose myself to it.", you make provocative and misogynistic statements designed to put women you've never even met before on the defensive.

The only men who deal with overly dramatic women are the men who choose to deal with them.

SA,

Basically, from the things you've said, you just want someone to listen to you and validate your feelings. I can understand that. I've been in that position before myself. Thankfully I have one very good friend and a wonderful IC.

The only thing I can tell you is that with where you are right now, all of the built up emotions you express; all of the anger and resentment you express, you are not going to find the woman you are looking for. It won't happen until you deal with your issues. It won't happen as long as you are partying, getting drunk and hoping the women around you might be "the one". They won't be. If they are out drinking like that too, then they have issues of their own that they haven't dealt with - just like you.

That's a lesson I've had to learn the hard way. I spent 3 yrs doing that after my xh and I broke up. I was devistated by the divorce. I was willing to work on the relationship - he wasn't. He refused to do the things Dr. Harley told him it would take to make the relationship what we both wanted. I went through that with him (with counseling from Dr. H) for over a year, and we finally split up. When we did, I went straight for the bar and the booze. It never helped the problem. All it did was numb me up enough, for a little while, that I could enjoy myself for the moment, and then be even more miserable when it was over.

I even met a guy that asked me to marry him. But we both drank too much - and even though we started counseling, he was a sex addict and refused to work on the issues that caused him to be that way. He started cheating on me within 3 mos of the time we got together. (I didn't find out about that until later) He even went online after we went into counseling because he wasn't getting it every single day at least once, maybe twice a day - and no matter how kinky it got - one week he'd say "Wow! I didn't know you could do that!" and the next week it would be "You just don't act sexy enough.".

After I found out he was online, I went online to see for myself. Sure enough, there he was. I didn't put a pic on the board, but I went online myself - just to see if I could "let him get caught" by me. It worked! When he found out it was me, he was furious. But I let him know that if he hadn't done that behind my back, that wouldn't have happened.

Anyway, he ended up finding someone that would do just what he told them was required for him to marry them. Once they were married, he found out that she didn't put out to the same standards I mentiond before either. She didn't continue to do what he had told her was required for him to marry her. He came running back to me. I told him no way - he was married and his sex life wasn't my problem anymore.

But that's the kind of people that go out and get drunk, run around to bars and party. How do I know? I used to be one of them and met tons of them.

Things didn't get better for me until I got out of all m/f relationships, refused to date anyone who drank a lot, quit drinking to numb up, went back to school for a better job, and continued to see my counselor for help with the issues I had to deal with myself. But I learned I had to do it for myself, not for someone in a relationship.

I've dated a grand total of 3 men since March of last year when I left my xf because he refused to work on his issues. One for about 4 dates, one for 1 date and one for about 3 months. None of them keepers. Two were looking for sex, and one was not intelligent enough for me to be able to hold a conversation with. I'm happier by myself at this point than I would be with all of the losers there are in this area. But then again men in this area seem to have an attitude of just staying who/where they are and not bothering to grow into better people. They don't like to work on themselves, they want their women to make all the adjustments. That don't work for me. I've got to be met half way, or it ain't gonna happen. I didn't put out the effort to better myself mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and financially to get stuck with a man that was "stuck".

Go get some help. You need it. You will always have something about yoursself that you will have to work on - just like me and the rest of the world. Nobody's perfect and everyone has to work on themselves at some point or else stay in the same situation they are in. If you are happy in your situation, then disregard my suggestion. But you don't sound too happy at this point. Not with all the negative stuff coming up here on the board.

Sincerely,
RMW

"You are right that men shouldn't have to tolerate that kind of behavior. Who says they do? But you tend to generalize about them and instead of simply saying, "I don't have to expose myself to it.", you make provocative and misogynistic statements designed to put women you've never even met before on the defensive."

I agree whole heartedly with SB on the points made here. Any woman who doesn't have big time issues herself can see your negativism. That's why I said, go get some help. Better yourself and you will learn to hook up with better women.

Thank you Seabird for a very succinct and targeted post.

SA, go ahead and tell me the books you've read on primitive societies. I'd be interested. As regards my marriage, and my attitude etc. please feel free to read my previous posts on the subject. It's all there to read, and you can judge.

RMW and Green - Thanks for the agreement, though I suspect that SA will simply dismiss my posts as sycophantic toward women. Frankly, if he's for real and simply not a young kid trolling here for attention, then I suspect he's dealing with a tremendous amount of anger and resentment towards his X. This board can be a convenient place to let her (and every other women he keeps encountering) "have it" by proxy. His bitterness towards her translating into admonishment toward all women.

Who knows... Maybe he purposely seeks out women that remind him of the ex just have conflict with them and win battles. Just a thought...

Finally!!!

Steve, you are right - you keep making poor choices, you keep ending up with losers. Start picking quality women, and the drama will end too. Easy.

AGG

And I will once again venture to say that a quality woman does not necessarily translate into - and most likely is unlikely to be - the Barbarella type you seem to be into.

Honestly, this is a great thread for entertainment value, to see into the mind of someone so hung up on himself that he can't understand why no one is empathizing. I can only imagine what those dates have been like.

LOL. I still think SA is a troll. What kind of guy lights two cigs at once and hands one to a woman? I think I've seen it done in some black and white movies, but in real life??? Plus, would I put something between my lips that some guy had in his? Ooops. That's right. SA was looking for a girl who would.

"Who knows... Maybe he purposely seeks out women that remind him of the ex just have conflict with them and win battles. Just a thought... "

Actually there is a very strong possiblity that he is doing it subconsiously. I figure the stuff I've been having to work on has something to do with the type of people I kept getting involved with.

Thankfully I've learned to see and deal with a lot of things I never recognized before!

I think this thread is helpful and healthy...which is why troll-based or not...others can read and apply what they want.

Understanding our routine attraction...all those subtle (subconscious and not so subconscious) parts is important. By not looking within, at our attraction, we keep repeating and thinking our picker is broken.

One thing about drama...it's like holding up your arms to look "bigger" to a bear...gives you the appearance of...doesn't mean you are, correct?

If you think of yourself as medicore, run-of-the-mill, uninteresting, lame, weak, insignificant...then you may focus on dramatic events, even making them (from molehills to mountain) to appear bigger than you are to others...signals the desire to be seen this way, to need to put down others to feel bigger, to use events instead of share essence...

gotta remember that when people use drama, it's because they see YOU as the bear...

doesn't mean you are...just really good to know...and you may like secretly being the bear...until you get a chunk of the other's teeth in your hide...

for we aren't bears...and what we do to others, we will do to you, too...hear a woman tearing down a previous BF? She'll do it to you...she has her false payoffs...and if the more rotten he looks, the better you look...then whose hands really are in the air?

LA

I like the way I applied that one : That's the best laugh I've had all day!!!!!!!!

I am also looking for the right woman and I will have relationship with all options open. Your still putting blame on me. I did say before a female told me I was a booty call. Hardly respectful but they are doing the same. A I had a few not even tell me they were in relationships so who is disrespecting. You dont know all their reasons for wanting sex so dont put a spin on it again.

greengables if you want to talk book I will but I'll tell you a good one I really like for now. After The Ice- steven mithen.

agoodguy- yes i have to find better quality women and maybe some of the drama will stop. I am rethinking a lot of things. Anger towards ex yes I'm sure. However when I had the gf for 8 months I treated her awsome and she couldnt deny it when I broke up with her.

I know nobody thinks i am a troll and its an insult so keep saying it till your finger gets a blister. I drink once every other week. It was a big party and thats why people were there. Sloppy drunk, no. comedian drunk who dont know when to quit yes. I did the cigarettes for the humor of it that's why i made a show out of it. but she didnt smoke and it was my mistake. Sat by me because even drunk I am unique. She never texted back so I know she wasnt interested after she thought about it. maybe my friend will find out her reasons and I will post them.

no i dont agree with women use drama cause they see you as a bear.

I reread what you posted and I think that I mistook your reference to being sloppy in your tricks as being a sloppy drunk. I apologize for my mistake, SA.


LA, that's an interesting view that I will think about.


P.S. I've read this board off and on for a very long time and I appreciate all of you who have posted on it. So, thank you and Hello!