Hi There

I have been reading your threads today. I am new to these boards and have not been through what you are currently going through, I therefore do not feel qualified to give you advice and you are in safe hands with the advice others are giving you.

I do however just want to say that I admire you very much for being so adamant in your love and belief in your marriage. Fight the good fight and continue to stay strong and find it in yourself to be her lighthouse.

You sound like a really decent guy and your wife is very lucky to have you in her life, whether she knows it or not. Hopefully one day she will realise what she has is rare and that your commitment and loyality to her should command her respect.

Stay strong my friend and enjoy your fishing trip

Not if you've beaten her to the punch and they already know from you. Once they know that she knows that they know ( ) they'll assume that she'll put some sort of spin on it.

The only reason I suggested mentioning to her that you exposed is that all the people in her life seem like incredibly not-get-involved type of people, therefore, it's possible not one of them is going to say anything; therefore, the point of exposing is wasted. Only then would I bring it up, just to point out to her that no matter what she does from now on, they know. That should be good enough to get some of the old guilt juices flowing.

I agree. After I exposed my WW to her 6 sisters, they all gossiped among each other, but none mentioned it to WW. Two of them called and asked if she was doing all right, which made WW a little suspicious. It was only after one sister (who also had an A in the past) called WW and told her about one of the gossip session that WW went ballistic, as well as started feeling guilty.

You don't mention exposure BEFORE doing it, because that gives WW a chance to call up all her friends and family and say "He's gone crazy, he's so possessive and jealous - he even thinks I'm having an affair! He's turned violent and mean and I had to move out just to feel safe. He's really NOT thinking clearly. I'm worried about him."

Once you've done the exposure, you WANT her to know that her little secret is out. Usually folks call her up saying "Is it TRUE? What are you DOING??" and she feels all guilty and we love it.

But her circle of friends and family do seem to be of the "don't get involved" persuasion. Give it a while and if she doesn't get angry that you've exposed, you could let it slip that you've exposed.

I don't really know how you could do that effectively without suffering bodily harm... maybe email her and say something friendly and newsy, then "I sure hate things have gotten so bad between us. I've asked your parents and a few close friends to pray for us, keep us in mind, whatever, while we work this out." Then something else light and newsy.

Thanks for your support. It's a very trying time in my life and like everyone else here, thought that I'd never be here and don't want to be here.
I sometimes think that I shouldn't care anymore that after all the hurt and pain she has caused me. I haven't seen or talked to her in ALMOST A MONTH!!! As you've seen I've emailed her but I don't even get a response back. HOW can you try to save a marriage when the other person won't even talk to you? I don't know, BUT my heart feels so differently and that's what's keeping me in this.

Well I'm back, not much of a get away since i was building a deck everyday but I did enjoy myself, it's such a beautiful place.

The evenings I did a lot of thinking, writing and reading. Every night I couldn't sleep, woke up with my mind racing so sat on the dock under the stars and wished (on the stars), prayed, and talked to my WW as if she was there.

I read a book called, "The Five Love Languages", by Gary Chapman. Found if before I left. It was a gift from our wedding and niether of us have read it. Now after reading it I bet you my marriage would not be where it is today. I highly suggest it.
Main idea: like the love bank and ENS this book is tied very similarily except its a love tank and the five love languages are: Quality Time, Words of Affirmation, Gifts, Acts of Service, Physical Touch.

From this site and now the book I see where I definately didn't meet these needs. I want to badly to show her that I can BUT with her not even emailing me back where can I go from here?????

I think plan B will just make her think I gave up and I don't want to do that. I feel so driven to save this marriage and have tried, not necessarily in the best timeframe to do the things described here and in other readings, she just doesn't give me a chance!!!

I will write soon, I'm going to read all I wrote over the weekend and refresh my mind of the book I read then maybe all of you can support me again for a good push on Plan A? The day is comming that I'll have to get this separation in place to I can protect my finances....

P.S.- I sent the email with the pics of the cats. No response back.

Family of the "don't like to get involved" persuasion is useless to deal with.

It's a lost cause if that's what she has.

Not only that, but they'll take her side in the end and excommunicate you like a leper once they side with her.

So don't count on them helping you.

The only thing that will truly help is handling YOU and you only.

That's all that you can control anyways.

So focus on the things you can change. All that really is, in the end, is yourself.

Welcome back! Too bad no fallout from exposure, that sucks.

Gary Chapman's book is wonderful. Reading that helped me to get out of a funk where my self-talk was "If he really loved me, he'd write me just one measly note." to "Wow, he REALLY loves me, he came all the way out to my taekwondo class to change the burned out headlight on my car as a surprise for me when I got out of class." My language is words/touch (a toss-up) and his is acts of service. Now that I can listen to him in his language, I can tell that the boy is crazy about me! It's quite cool

No, because if/when you go to Plan B you'll give her a carefully crafted letter that will explain WHY you're going to Plan B and exactly what her path back should be.

Would you QUIT worrying about her actions? She is the floundering ship, remember?

What else have you done besides the cat pic?
Is the deck visible from the road where she can see it when she drives by?
Have you cleaned up the yard?
Cleaned up the clutter in the basement (I know, probably not because you were building a deck)?
You have a ton of Plan A things you could be doing, so get hopping!

The deck was a great one though, especially if she can see it when she drives by. Did you take a pic to send her? Have you mentioned it in an email? How tired you are and how great it feels to be productive?

Thanks Turtlehead, I really liked the book, very insightful to our situation. I think our REAL problem, the MAIN problem, in our marriage is exactly this....we don't know how to communicate and have NEVER worked on it becuase we just didn't know. I wish I knew long ago what I know now. LOL... Already figured that from this site too.

The deck I built was at the cabin 2 hrs. away, she won't see it but I will tell her about it along with my other good experiences at the cabin last weekend. Like mentioned before, she bought me a new tacklebox for my b-day a few months back, litterly days before everything started to happen. I think she really put some heart into buying it for me but my love language is not "gifts" so I don't think I really told her how much I appreciated the gift. She seemd kinda down when I just said thanks. I'll tell her how much I enjoyed/appreciated it.

This week is clean up time at the house, getting the renos started etc. I was mentioning that she still hasn't responed to an email just for you readers to keep you in the loop. I'll keep emailing her about these plan A things I'm doing and try to word my emails so that they meet her love languages.

"I was mentioning that she still hasn't responed to an email just for you readers to keep you in the loop."

Oh. My bad.
Carry on!!

You care because you do. Don't invalidate your feelings by saying that you feel as if you shouldn't care. Your wife IS lucky to have someone who cares about her as much as you do.
As long as she is reading your messages/emails etc then she is absorbing at least a part of it.

One day perhaps she will see it and realise just how lucky she is to be in that position. Until that day, sadly all you can do is be unfaultering in your position and continue to show her just what she is missing out on.

Talamasca,
Thanks again for your kind words. I do appreciate them. It's so hard to have someone you love so dearly walk out on you and seem so happy.

I know we are all in the same boat here, a WS has had an EA/PA and we all want to try to save what's left. That's why I'm here. Every situation we are all in is slightly different from the standard...

I think my situation is different from alot of you from what I read of all your posts throughout this Forum. These are generalizations. Most of you have been married for 10+ yrs, many of you are a fair bit older than I or my WW (we're both just getting to the 30 mark), many of you have families and you are fighting for them. You have a lot to fight for!!!

I look at myself this way, now at least. We have no kids, just a house, couple of cats, and a few vehicles. Pretty easy to move on from, easy to split up and go our separate ways. Not much holding us together except our love for eachother and our marital vows.
I have stood by my vows and even though I had no vows for the 6.5 yrs we were together before I felt like there was vows. I take a relationship seriously when it comes to my heart and morals......obviously my WW does not.

I've read/and anyone that has posted on my thread has told me about the WS being in a fog, not themselves, like an alien, nothing but lies, not even feeling remorseful at the time of confrnation, believing/convincing themselves that they are right and that does decribe my WW but there is more....

Seems like most WS still want to keep contact with BS, still need to know they are there, to talk, email, text, willing to meet with them for coffee, go out to a movie, etc.

They want to be cake eaters, and sit on the fence. I thought this was my WW up until now....

Here are the thoughts I'm having, I'm getting a little upset that I have seen not one bit of effort on her part to save this marriage, NOT ONE!! Please help me with this, I feel maybe my situation isn't just about the affair but her just wanting to move on?

I have a feeling my WW is just moving on, not just having an A to fulfill her needs that I haven't met but still wants me to be there, but actually moving on with her life without me and the A just happened becuase as she was looking for comfort, OM got involved and was there, she used it as a crutch to leave the relationship. As time goes by she just keeps drifting further and further away from me to the point now that she won't even email me unless it's about moving forward with a seperation. She's hanging with a different crowd of people, not really any of her old freinds, she's out being very social with her new GFs and seems so much happier in the pics I see that she posts on Facebook.
Seems like she kinda had a mid-life crisis and thought of all that she never did when she was in high school. She didn't even date in highschool and only had one serious relationship before me that was 6-8 months and then went straight to me since she was 19.
Looks like she is more trying to find herself and what makes her happy in life than just having an affair. Like in a split second (well more like a couple weeks) she went from wanting and trying to have kids, having a family and living happily ever after to wanting to be social, party, not have kids, get involved with OM, and question our marriage and her feelings for me. YET, she says, these are her words, she doesn't know how she'll feel in a few months or even a year and may want to come back but she needs to be selfish right now, she needs to be on her own.
Counsellors and friends and even people here say they get the idea that she wants me to wait for her while she does this, doesn't necessarily want a divorce but wants to do this for herself....

Thoughts please, maybe I'm just in a mood but today I felt I can do no right. She doesn't want to share with me, say in contact.

Should I take my emails in another direction? Should I ask her for coffee and maybe show an interest in her new life and try to get involved in her new found happiness (AS LONG AS SHE MAKES THE CHOICE TO END THE A). I think that she is relating talking to me as every conversation from here on in is ALWAYS going to be about how much she has hurt me, how sad I am, how lonley etc....Is there maybe another direction I could work this?

I'll tell you this. The A stands on it's own as a subject to deal with. I do stand by the Plan A/B, I have Exposed, I'm doing the 180 for myself and it feels good. I LOVE my wife very much and still believe that we could have a very strong marriage if we can get though this as there were no major faults in the marriage, we get along great but ENs were not being met right and the passion suffered. At heart we have always agreed we feel like best friends but have a closeness of love added on top. You would think that was a good recipe but every marriage needs work and we are both a little too immature sometimes to think it shouldn't just be perfect.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I know I shouldn't be looking for the quick fix and I'm not BUT a little compassion from the WW would be nice once in awhile, a hint that what I'm doing is making even the slightest differance?

Could there be a new direction I could be taking? I'm not in Plan B yet, this is still Plan A but sending light-hearted emails and not even getting a response back for a month now I would've given up already if it wasn't for the fact that I snooped and saw her reading/keeping the emails.

Plan B looks to be rearing it's head around the corner, I don't want to be there yet, at least not for a few more weeks.....

The only advice I can give you at this point is that your focus right now should be on YOU, not her. Have you gone out and found some other things to do? A busy, active man is so much more attractive, than one who just sits at home. It's just human nature - if she finds out you're going on with your life, you'll suddenly look a lot more desirable to her.

Of course, it IS possible that she feels free now - not that you're a bad person, but sometimes people get together and find they can't get what they need from that relationship, and they feel stifled and need to get out. On the other hand, in my instance, I love my H deep down, so even if I left, I may still want to get back with him, but on MY terms for the first time ever. BUT. If I did leave, I would first want a taste of that freedom, something I never had. So once I got out, I simply might want to be alone - all alone - for 6 months, maybe a year, just to find myself. Find out who I am when I'm not trying to please a dozen other people. It's possible she's going through that and it has nothing to do with you, just something she has to do.

But you can't control any of that. All you can do is focus on making YOU the best person you know how to be. So what have you done different? New hobby? Sign up for a class? Volunteer somewhere? Learn how to build furniture? Meet your neighbors? Do something!

Why SHOULD she make an effort to save the marriage? She's out playing and partying and having a blast. You're sitting at home and available whenever she needs you. What's uncomfortable about that? She's cake-eating, big time.

That's the beauty of Plan B. It will shock her into realizing that you *won't* always be there. That her behavior is unacceptable and carries consequences. You need to get that Plan B letter posted so folks can take a look at it and help you polish it.

You also need to be doing a STRONG Plan A - more than just some light hearted emails. You have a list. Work on it.

I see you talking a lot but not doing much. That could just be the fact that this forum only allows small glimpses into what is really going on; a few posts on a forum cannot possibly give a total picture. I see you spending a lot of time talking about what you could do, but doing very little. Buying a bedspread and sending a photo of the cats is not a lot when there's clutter in the basement, yardwork to do, home renovations that you *know* made her crazy, etc.

I think that you need to kick into high gear. You need Plan B to get her to quit cake-eating. You can't have an effective Plan B until you've had an effective Plan A. So far there's been a lot of talk but little action. Just my perception, of course.

Alone,

There is a category of affairs that are associated with walk away Wives. They in fact have affairs to end the marriage. I cannot say if your W is in that category.

There is a part of me that says, tell that young man he has a whole life ahead of him don't waste it on a woman that does not love him. There is another part of me saying: but he loves this woman and he is her husband and it is his duty to do his best to recover this marriage.

It is may opinion that part of the power of this site is greatly unappreciated. It gives you tools to work on the marriage. It provides plans to try and end the A and save the marriage. It offers great advice about building a better marriage. But, it does something else. It helps you define YOU. It helps you come to the realization that you can in fact end this marriage and have a good relationship with some other woman in the future.

Man and women are NOT that unique or all of these things would not work as consistently as they do, WS's would not say verbatim what they say, and BS' would not feel exactly what everyone else seems to feel.

My point??? You need to use the tools here, but you need to be focussing on YOU. You need to get to the point that you can leave this marriage with confidence that you can be/are/were a good husband but will become a better one...for someone. The ability to be able to leave helps you negotiate a better reconcilliation IF your W ever gives you that chance. If she does not, you leave with less baggage, and the prognosis of a better future marriage.

So does this sound like I am telling you to leave her? I am not. I am telling you that you need to be ABLE to leave her and do so with much less baggage than you are carrying now. You will then be in a better negotiating position. But, if the worse does come, you are better prepared for a good future with a woman that loves, respects, and values you. Currently that woman is NOT your W. It may never be this woman.

I don't say this is easy to do. You will ALWAYS remember her, she is a huge part of your life, even if she were to die tomorrow. Face that fact, but understand as the years go by and you find another mate, the feelings attached to those memories fade and go away and all that is left is what you learned.

I am not trying to discourage you. You do however, have this mistaken thought that YOU can end this affair if only you did the right thing or said the right thing, or made yourself into someone else. That does not happen. The A has to end, exposure helps the two affairees see things more clearly, it causes them to question one another. Often the affair ends. Only then do you have a chance to "get her back".

Alone, you need to work on yourself for yourself. Become a better man, a better human being, and a better H when your W comes back or if in the future there is another woman. You keep speculating what she is thinking, what she is doing, what is needs. Quit speculating. Do plan A, then move to plan B.

By the way, plan B is not designed to affect the WS at all. It is designed to preserve your love for your spouse longer. There will still be withdrawals from your LB, but they are smaller, thus giving the A more time to end. Any affect, good or bad, it has on your W is secondary and not really part of the plan.

I hope that something I have said is of help to you.

God Bless,

JL

JL,
I agree that Plan B is designed to protect the love of the BS for the WS, so that if/when the A ends the BS still has some "oomph" left for recovery.

But isn't it also true that when the BS goes into Plan B, then they are no longer meeting the WS' ENs? Doesn't that have an impact on the WS?

I guess I'm asking if, from your perspective, while Plan B is not *designed* to have an impact on the WS, doesn't it have an impact anyway? Sort of a side effect?

Turtlehead, you say you want me to kick it into high gear for Plan A, well I'm doing all those things we discussed earlier BUT how will my WW see these improvements if she doesn't call me text me and as far as I'm concerned (since she's been not contacting me) will not even come by the house? Email is the only contact right now and she's not even replying.
I'm thinking of calling her later this week and see if she'd like to go for coffee, or come by the house to visit the cats (even though that would be going back on my word that she has no rights to visit the cats since the PA was brought to light).
I need to open up her communication channels again. I was stupid in saying to her that "I'm walking away". That was the last thing I did before she walked out the door and we haven't talked since.
I think I've really given her mixed messages now, sending emails after I told her I was done. Maybe she doesn't know how to react.

Can you explain more about this? This could be a possiblity. But it doesn't explain why she would be confiding in him to help her figure out her feelings for me and why after talking to him for so many late nights that she came home in the midst of spending so much time with him to be excited to work on the marriage. Of course the next day she started hanging out with him again..... and why when she was getting ready to move out she wanted to invite me to see the apartment, told me all excited that she got it, wants to see the finished renos at home.

WW and I have not discussed where our relationship stands in the last month. I know Plan A says to stay away but I feel that I'd like to make appologies to her about some of my aactions and things said like walking away. I want to give her the book I read, "Five Love Languages" and tell her that this book was given to us when we married as a gift and I have read it. I now would like to pass it on to you. Read it if you wish. I'd like to make some ammends for the wrongs I've done, but not take acceptance for her actions.
I was thinkinf of doing this over a walk in the park or coffee and have my plan B letter ready if she doesn't want to open up. At least then I have been open to her where I stand...

Thoughts?