BFRH,

My WH went to MC while in his A.

First question the MC asked was what my goal was for MC...and I told him to save my marriage. He then asked WH what his goal was, and WH thought about it and said, "My goal is to decide to leave the marriage and be with OW, leave the marriage and be by myself, or to stay and work on the marriage."

MC said, "Okay. I can help you each with your goals."

Then he looked at WH and said, "In order to make this really important decision, you'll need to shut out OW's influence. You'll have to end your A today."

WH didn't say anything. Nor did I. I learned self-control in MC sessions.



At the end of the first session, MC asked that we have two sessions the next week...one alone with me and one alone with WH, and we agreed.

WH did not end his A that day.

He did ten minutes after his next session.

For you, BFRH, I would have already exposed if I could have found OW's H. I couldn't. He was supposedly in another country. I did search and do my best. I told my sons (well, YS told me after WH took him on a date with OW); I told his parents and asked for their help; and his sister, whom he was living with.

And WH still went to MC. You never know...whether it was really to justify his actions, to really make a choice, or what. Fact was, he went. He listened. This guy didn't dance him around...he laid out facts, explained and defined influence and that is was messing up WH's head. And WH made a deadline for his choice, too.

I had to focus on my self-control...and take my ever-loving-control-freakishly-large-hands off of what I had no control over. My WH. And WH moved back in two weeks after that.

We were in MC for a year and a half. We went from crisis counseling into personal growth counseling. It mattered.

LA

No, unlike yourself, I do not feel I am the official spokesman for the Harleys, which is why I post Dr Harley's direct QUOTES. I don't proffer up unsubstantiated, unverifiable - probably biased and self serving - hearsay as you do.

And no, Steve didn't say what you say here when I spoke to him about exposure. Others were there, they might remember differently.

The only thing he told me was that he did agree with our advocacy of exposure here, but that when he was coaching a couple, depending on the situation, he might DELAY the initial exposure until he had a chance to "SELL" the WS on voluntarily ending the affair.


If you feel this way, then why are you giving any advice here at all? Seems like you might want to take your own advice? But wouldn't it be a terrible tragedy for the folks here if we didn't tell them about one of the most potent weapons against adultery? We couldn't very well say we wanted to help folks if we withheld such valuable advice, could we?

Wow, I don't think I've ever met a groupie quite so full of themselves before you!

It's those quotes of Dr Harley's, which are different from his publications and the rest of this website, which promted me 2 ask for his direct input on the topic of exposure. What is someone such as myself 2 believe is the MB method? Your word? No thank you.


And you wouldn't advocate that? Right? And with even less information than SH has in a coaching environment?


Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Do you really expect me 2 answer that question? Expect away, I'm not going 2.


Of course it would be a tragedy. But exposure in the wrong way can also be tragic.

Exposure makes sense, 2 a point, beyond which it is unnecessary at best, and potentially dangerous at worst. Your own example of SH suggesting that a BS picket in front of the OP's place of business clearly backfired when you did essentially that in lino's si2ation.

Just be careful out there.

-ol' 2long

2Long, that is why I didn't post "my words" as you did, but Dr. Harley's words from this forum. I agree that what you say is unsubstantiated hearsay and shouldnt' be taken seriously. It dovetails closely to your own approach to exposure, which was closer to enabling, IMO. This is why direct quotes are so much better than your words filtered through your own biased memory. Wouldn't you agree?

I hope you do take your own advice and STOP giving advice, since you admit you are so very confused. I would hate to see others here end up in a marriage with a 6+ year affair, wouldn't you? [or is it longer?]


Oh, so you don't agree with Steve's advice in this case? How do you know it "backfired?" Are you in touch with lino?

Backfired? Actually, it had the intended effect. The only problem was the realization that MB can be hazardous when SOME people will go to any extreme to aid & enable an affair. I wish I could take credit for that plan but it wasn't mine.

You mentioned on the other forum that Dr. Harley is not a "bright guy." Does this mean you think you are "brighter" than Steve too since you don't approve of his picketing advice? What are your own qualifications?

As you said about Dr Harley: click here

Do you think Steve is also "not bright?"

p.s. Why can't you answer that? I really would like the answer to this. Why do you feel you should continue giving advice here and others should NOT? Shouldn't you take your own advice? If that is good advice for us, why wouldn't it be for you?

Is it because you believe you are "brighter" than Dr. Harley? Are you brighter than the rest of us too?

LOL my post has been officially hijacked...

I'm really sorry, BFRH. 2long seems to have a resentment towards me that he feels supercedes the interests of others. He does this quite often.

2long, how about we continue this via email and leave this man alone? My email is listed in my signature.

Can someone link me to some posts where people exposed to OMW so soon and it worked out good,

I have read a lot where they wished they would have, that's great but that really doesn't help me make my decision, because they have no idea what the outcome would have been.

The one story I read where he exposed like crazy, scope11, doesnt look like it is turning out so well.

Thank you

BFRH, you are misunderstanding exposure. It is but ONE COMPONENT of a larger program to end the affair. No one has ever said that exposure alone is guaranteed to end the affair and magically save the marriage. There are MANY STEPS to this.

We do have affairs that have been killed the SAME DAY they were exposed, but that is the exception, not the rule. My H's affair was one that ended the day I exposed it. Exposure is one of many tactics. [Runnerboy is another that is fairly current]

However, only 15% of affairs even end in Plan A. Most end up in Plan B, which is complete separation.

Exposure WILL hasten the death of the affair, which gives the marriage the best chance. The marriage has NO CHANCE as long as there is an active affair, so the most effective thing you can do is to kill the affair. Dr. Harley recommends causing as much conflict as possible for the affair.

Affairs thrive on SECRECY. Exposing an affair is just like bringing in a crowd of people to the crack house to watch the crack heads. It is no fun to get high anymore when everyone is watching. They are based on fantasies so when the affairee is forced to explain himself and see himself through the eyes of others, he sees how sleazy and ridiculous he looks. This inflicts a huge blow to the affair.

If you are looking for guarantees, the only guarantee we can give is that if you continue to do NOTHING to save your marriage, you probably won't have a marriage. The ones that don't make it are the ones like you who ENABLE the affair.

****edit****

As a degreed professional counsellor myself...

I agree 100% with Melody Lane.

Exposure works.

Mr. Wondering

There are others. A current one is Mike_C2 over on JFO.

He did the kind of exposure that Mel is advocating here, but it appears 2 be working out favorably (so far, that is).

One I remember from years ago is J.R. He confronted the OM at his own house (per Steve Harley's recommendation in his particular case). He managed 2 do it without getting physical with the guy. In the end, however, it made no difference. It didn't end the affair even when the OM got cancer (and is probably long gone by now). He's been divorced and moved on for a few years now.

I didn't expose 2 Rat Meat's W after d-day, and for about 6 months I regretted not doing so. But I couldn't have paid for the way she reacted when she found out herself (RM was consulting on a research project for my W at the time, and when Mrs Meat found their emails on his computer while he was out of town, she reformatted all his hard drives!). My W's affair was really in 2 parts - the first about 4 years long starting in 1991, the 2nd when she hired him 2 consult for her in 2000. Mrs Meat found out about the affair in 95 and made RM go NC on my W, but she never told me about it. Wish she had.

She later threw RM out in the dead of winter, then called him back because she couldn't handle their 2 boys on her own. When he came home, he literally walked in on her and her OM boinking in their bedroom.

I managed 2 miss all the high drama at the time it happened, though I did get a good laugh a year or so later when I heard about it.

RM got DV'd in 2004 and married another idiot about a year later (that he was dating while he was still married and still in contact with my W).

Nowadays, I don't regret the choices I made back then. In fact, I'm rather satisfied with the results (in our marriage, I could care less what those 2wits are up 2).

One thing 2 keep in mind about exposure is the very PURPOSE of exposure - it's 2 end the affair. Now, it's not rocket science 2 realize that the best people 2 expose 2 are those who are close 2 the WS (like trusted friends and family) and can put pressure on them 2 end the affair and recommit 2 the marriage.

Think the OM will be a potential ally? You want NO CONTACT with him on your W's part, so why initiate contact yourself?

That's not 2 say you shouldn't contact him, just that you likely know very little about how he'll react or what he's capable of (he IS a liar and a cheat by definition, after all).

That's why I think exposure 2 the OMW is more important (she needs 2 know what she's dealing with, anyway).

As for family, exposure 2 them depends on whether they'll likely be willing 2 help you rebuild your marriage, or whether they're likely 2 "side with her". Do you have any idea?

Exposing 2 employers may or may not be a good idea. Mostly it depends on the HR departments rules about infidelity (assuming they work 2gether). Some big companies fire cheaters. Most really don't care.

-ol' 2long

I don't know exactly what all is in the link below but it's some really old MB discussion material on Exposure including further links to other old discussions.

EXPOSURE 101

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

BFRH,

Here's a link to a couple of threads thread by TMTS (Toomuchtoosoon) who arrived on November 27 or 28 of last year and by December 3rd had already exposed to his in-laws and parents. He did not know of anyone on OM's side to expose to until the eve of his wife moving out of the house when he found out that OM had a girl friend. He exposed to her as soon as she was found and his wife never did leave the house...The apartment she had signed a lease on became their love nest until she was able to sublet it a few weeks later.

Read through his three threads and see what not only exposure but a well executed Plan A can do.

The Beginning

Questioning

The Long Haul and The Finish Line

The last of these three is 103 pages that will rip your heart out before giving you a reward that seemed impossible even a few days before...

And TMTS was one of the lucky ones. He never had to go to Plan B since the affair ended and he had done such good work in Plan A that his wife was ready to work on recovery almost before the smoke cleared.

Read it if you want to see what can happen.

Mark

BFRH

"Back in the day" I was a very scared BS. OM and WW both threatened me with worse outcomes if I exposed to his long term GF.

Mel, Pep, Kiwi , WAT and others rousted me up to expose.

Me ? I got tired of being controlled by the affair as if *I* had done something wrong.

I decided that if it were OMGF with the info about the affair would I want to know or not ?

I decided that if my recovery was so fragile that doing a righteous thing like telling OM GF what kind of a man the father of her child was would break it, then I could not walk on enough eggshells to sustain a happy life based on that.

I asked myself this question " what would I do if I was not afraid?"

So on a trip to Tescos I called OM GF. I told her everything. I still remember with a shudder the very SECOND that her heart broke.

She thanked me through her tears. We exchanged contact details.

Then I puked in the bushes outside Tescos. It got back to Squid from OM within 5 minutes, and Squid txted me " that's it ! If I can't trust you I will divorce you!" ( Oh the irony!).

OM GF tells me she threw righteous crockery and insults in tears at OM for a couple of hours while he tried to lie and obfuscate out of the well of pain he had dug for them both. His soft lips half convinced her that I was crazy, so I faxed her copies of his "love" letters to Squid.

That was the beginning of the end of the affair.

OM GF and I kept in touch to sync whereabouts and lies for a year. No contact for 3 years now. Not required.

OM GF thanked me for giving her the chance to rebuild her R with OM. They are now happier than they have been for a while. They owe a part of that to ME.

As for ME, I felt myself become a KNIGHT rather than a serf, taking control of my life not being a victim of it.

It helped me plan A, lovingly detach and rebuild our lives all because I did a courageous righteous thing when I was fearful.

The only part of wider exposure I regret is that i told one of Squid's best friends, and she just used it as the juiciest gossip of the month, giving Squid advice like " follow your heart".

Morally stupid people shouldn't be exposed to IME.

Exposure to OM GF was crucial. and effective

LovingAnyway just posted about how he exposed the best he could (OM was overseas so difficult to get info on) and how his WW still went to counseling. Look back about a page, or click his name following the subject line of my reply (where it says [Re: LovingAnyway].

Here's a quote from Down but not out, from today in GQII:

She is shaken up still from the exposure and I think the OM has now called it off (hence her comment what goes around comes around) but I have not asked her about this or confirmed - I have given up snooping.

Exposure is not a guarantee that the A will end immediately but it hastens the end of the A.
It DOES put pressure on the A.

Sitting around fretting does absolutely nothing to put pressure on the A. You are enabling the A. By inaction you have implicitly stated that the A is fine with you. Is that the message you want to send?

It doesn't matter if you have SAID the words "This hurts, please stop." Your WW is incapable of empathizing with that right now. It is just as effective as if you've smiled and said nothing.

Exposure will get the message through.
It will also change her perspective of the A from a lovely secret beautiful fantasy to a shameful difficult mistake. Exposure communicates in a way that words and tears cannot.

Runnerboy did the best and most immediate exposure I have ever read on this board. His thread shouldn't be too far back.

Here's the link: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2058426#Post2058426


(edited to add the link)