Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2111478 08/17/08 06:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 26
C
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 26
My first Post, update at bottom.



My wife and I separated a month ago and a week ago she left the state to go back home where she is from.. We have 2 kids together.. we started because i wasn't giving her attention and didn't see to her needs.. I'm going to counseling to get my stuff straight and to work on myself now.. She said she tried to file for divorce and she couldn't do it because she said its permanent, and she never thought that she would be divorced and she pictured her whole life with me. she said she wants time to be by herself and work on herself.. One day she is being fine and the next day she is being cold.. I'm not telling her that i will change because that never works and I will show her the change, and i stopped begging her to come back, I am just trying to leave her alone and give her space and i call every night to talk to my kids.. We had a good night and we talked and she said this was a good talk and if it keeps up like this then there is a good chance that we will work out.. then when she left now she is a complete different person. so cold and so mean.. She tells me now that she doesn't want to see any changes now and that she is not ready to work on the marriage. i don't know if she has other motives or what? how do i get her to be honest with me.. On her myspace page she has a song called "over you" by chris daughtry but then she is feeding me other garbage, by telling me she doesn't know what she wants yet and that she wants to go to counseling for herself and to try to forgive me for being an [censored]. what the heck is she doing? what if anything can i do and can expect? Is she doing this stuff because she is angry or what.? Can this marriage be saved? we have been married for 4 years now. Has anyone been here and is there a happy ending.. Any advice on what i can do?
Or is She just DONE??
--------------------------------------------------------------

UPDATE

Since she has been gone She hasn't talked to me at all..But she told me that she wanted a divorce. I would call and talk to my kids and she would just answer the phone and give it to them.. A few days ago she called me and we started talking for about half an hour, which is good considering she wouldn't say hi..
So I told her that I have a new counselor and that I wasn't happy with the old one since she recommended that I divorce her and I felt I wasn't there for that. i was there to work on myself and my marriage.. So she told me that If don't want the divorce then don't file for it.. and I told her that my counselor gave me some questions to ask if you want to answer them.. Before she wouldn't talk about the marriage at all. and she says email them to me.. So i did. and she filled them out..Here they are..

1)What are you afraid of most if you return?

that things will be exactly the same. i think it will take a lot more time for him to work out his issues than a couple of months.

2)What could we do to prevent them from Happening? continue with the counseling and respect the space that i've asked for

3)What could we do in the future to prevent them from happening? i want to beself-suffiecient in order to even think about mending the relationship becausei don't ever want to feel trapped again or have money thrown in my face as a reason I owe you something

4)Identify habits that destroy our romantic life. the constant fighting and the hectic life

5)How can we overcome those? He needs to learn to fight

6)Identify most important emotional needs. I want to feel secure in my relationships, something I've always had in the pastbe it with friends or family. I want to know that I can count on the people inmy life and that they feel the same about me. I want my self respect and pride back, which can only come from me prooving that I can do it on my own. Your attitude was always that I needed you, so why should you change. maybe if I show you how strong and capable I am you won't take me for granted if we get back together. I don't want a needy relationship and that is what we had, Iwant a healthy solid relationship like what my parents and mema and papa have.


What do you guys think about her answers??

cantbeliveit #2111523 08/17/08 09:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 244
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 244
I'm sorry,but it sounds like you need to do some homework and find out who she is seeing. SHE is the one who left,not you. YOU do not need to work on yourself unless SHE is with you. This is a 50-50 thing. Don't let her make you feel that YOU failed. SHE is the one not home. SHE is the one that is physically keeping your kids from you. IMO,SHE is the one with the problems. I would suggest you see a lawyer and file for joint custody of the kids.
She sounds very immature. My bet is there is someone else in the picture. I'm so sorry.:(
The kids should come first. She needs to see you will fight for them. SO,YOU are working on YOUR problems? SHE is running away from HERS and thinks SHE has no problems. DO NOT let her blame you. She is the one who ran away.
She needs SPACE? Find out who is in that space with her. Start with her computer and cell phone records. Good Luck. Sounds like you are a good H and father. She is very selfish. YOU do not have to meet her demands if she won't meet yours.

Last edited by jewelldy; 08/17/08 09:46 PM.
jewelldy #2111543 08/17/08 11:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 254
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 254
Just because a women leaves a relationship does mean that she is having an affair. An affair is not what causes a marriage to fail. An affair is what results, for some, from their marriage that is already failed or failing. From what you have posted she left for the same reason that most women leave. Neglect, mis-treatment, not having her needs met, etc. I also do not see where your wife is putting all the blame on you for your failed marriage. I see her only voicing the concerns she has about possible reconciling with you.

Originally Posted by cantbeliveit
1)What are you afraid of most if you return? that things will be exactly the same. i think it will take a lot more time for him to work out his issues than a couple of months.
Very wise of her. She is smart not wanting to jump right back into the same relationship. It may well take more than a couple of months to work out the issues that break a marriage apart. It did not take a couple of months to tear the marriage apart. She needs to see that you are willing and are actually working on making the necessary changes to yourself and to assure her that she will not be returning to the same marital rut.


Originally Posted by cantbeliveit
2)What could we do to prevent them from Happening? continue with the counseling and respect the space that i've asked for
Counseling is key for most of us to work through our own emotions, thoughts and issues. We need time to heal as do our spouses. She is asking for her space to heal, just as she is suggesting for you to seek your own healing.

Originally Posted by cantbeliveit
3)What could we do in the future to prevent them from happening? i want to be self-sufficient in order to even think about mending the relationship becausei don't ever want to feel trapped again or have money thrown in my face as a reason I owe you something
She needs to grow as an adult and feel like she can take care of herself. Many women, when they get married, loose their identity that they once had of being self reliant and being able to handle things on their own. We guys, not knowing that we are hurting, but thinking we are actually protecting them, take over the power of taking care of her and the household. We have built into us the need and desire to provide and through this need that we have to provide and care for our wives and family, we over the years tend to strip our wives of their self sufficient capacity. We tend to do things for them that they once did for themselves and over time we make them feel like they can not do what we do. Once we manage to strip them of their self sufficient or self nurturing need, we tend to hold it over their heads when we argue with them or when things in our relationships go south. We remind them of how we take care of everything and we make sure there is money to pay the bills and we provide the roof over their heads. This all happens innocently enough, but does not happen overnight. It is long slow process. Once it does happen the loose their self worth and we remind them of that through our comments and actions. I have said this so many times. "Why do we hurt most the ones we love most?"

Originally Posted by cantbeliveit
4)Identify habits that destroy our romantic life. the constant fighting and the hectic life
What I get from her response here is that she feels like you two can only communicate your issues or concerns, through fighting and arguing, and she is tired of it. Because she responded to it directly I am to assume that it is one of the key items that built a wall between the two of you. You both need to learn to communicate without fighting and arguing.

Originally Posted by cantbeliveit
5)How can we overcome those? He needs to learn to fight
This one ties into her response to the above question and also my response to her answer ties in here. To me it seems like she is saying that when you guys do fight either you do not fight fair or maybe you shut down and do not want to discuss the issue that is being dealt with.

Originally Posted by cantbeliveit
6)Identify most important emotional needs. I want to feel secure in my relationships, something I've always had in the pastbe it with friends or family. I want to know that I can count on the people inmy life and that they feel the same about me. I want my self respect and pride back, which can only come from me prooving that I can do it on my own. Your attitude was always that I needed you, so why should you change. maybe if I show you how strong and capable I am you won't take me for granted if we get back together. I don't want a needy relationship and that is what we had, Iwant a healthy solid relationship like what my parents and mema and papa have.
She just gave you that answer that the majority of walk away wives give for the reason they left their husbands. She felt disrespected, your actions destroyed her pride, your actions belittled her and you made her feel like that you thought that she needed you to survive (goes back to her not feeling self confident and capable of taking care of herself). You took her self respect away from her. She wants it back and she is working on getting it back. She wants the time and space away from you to regain what she feels like she has lost over the years from being married to you. Her biggest fear of getting back together with you is the fear that you will once again strip away her identity. Strip away her pride and self-respect.


Originally Posted by cantbeliveit
What do you guys think about her answers??
I commend your wife for responding to these questions for you. She has more or less given you the key/clues to what it will take for her to consider reconciling with you. You have the answer to that difficult exam that you faced with "The Walk Away Wive Exam."

Obviously only addressing her concerns about getting back together do not make for a perfect reconciliation. I am sure you have your concerns also about things you would like to see her work on or address on her side also. Those will also need to be addressed and the time for that will come. But your focus for now, should be addressing her concerns that she has. You need to earn back her trust and respect. She needs to be able to feel safe with you and right now she does not feel that. She is worried that you will make her feel small and unimportant as a person again. Prove her wrong. Let her grow and show her that you are proud of who she is and how proud you are of her for being so strong and self reliant. I her eyes she took a HUGE stand for herself by leaving you and her marriage. That was a big step for her in rebuilding her self respect.

Key that I see.

She wants to feel:

Self Sufficient
Self Respect
Confident
Able to care for herself
Independent
Respected by you

She is tired of all the fighting and arguing and wants to be able for the two of you to communicate and not fight and yell.


"HAVE A GOOD DAY" or do you have something else planned!!!

Married: 15 years
Divorced: 07/07
M: 36 yrs
W: 35 yrs
S: 5 yrs
nugget #2111551 08/17/08 11:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,652
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,652
Whether or not she is seeing anyone else, I think she has clearly spelled out exactly what you need to do. Yes if you want, you can see if there's someone else; but with the things she mentions, I think it's within the realm of possibility that she just plain left - the Walkaway Wife Syndrome, yes.

If there's someone else, then you would want to expose, and start Plan A, and you are luckier than most, because she was kind enough to answer your questions.

If there isn't anyone else, then you want to start Plan A, and you are luckier than most, because she was kind enough to answer your questions.

In any case, you want to start Plan A, and completely omit the LBs she mentions:

arguing/constant fighting (AO = Angry Outbursts)
hectic life (AH = Annoying Habits?)
using money as a weapon to hold over her head and coerce / manipulate her (SD = Selfish Demands)
"I want to know that I can count on the people inmy life" (Dishonesty)
"I want my self respect and pride back, which can only come from me prooving that I can do it on my own. Your attitude was always that I needed you, so why should you change." (DJ = Disrespectful Judgments)

Then, *after* you've successfully omitted ALL the LBs, you can start trying to meet her ENs. Lucky you, again she's spelled things out for you quite nicely:

"i don't ever want to feel trapped again or have money thrown in my face as a reason I owe you something "
This sounds in a round-about way like FS, Financial Support may be one, or may have been one, but now she feels like she can't trust your meeting this need in a respectful, caring, loving way. I strongly recommend you do your best to meet this need in whatever way she is still willing to allow. And of course without any LBs.

"habits that destroy our romantic life. the constant fighting and the hectic life "
What causes the hectic life? Does this indicate a need for DS (Domestic Support) or FC (Family Commitment)? Or FS again? Or could it be H&O (Honesty and Openness)?

"He needs to learn to fight"
My take on this, since she just said she doesn't like the constant fighting, is maybe she meant something like, you need to learn to "fight fair". And I think what some folks mean by "fighting fair" is very similar to Dr. Harley's instructions on negotiating and Thoughtful Requests. "Fighting fair" to me means never (!) using words like "never" and "always", and listening to the other person, being fair and allowing them to express their point of view, etc... which basically boils down to negotiating without DJs, being respectful, and making Thoughtful Requests.

"I want to feel secure in my relationships, something I've always had in the pastbe it with friends or family. I want to know that I can count on the people inmy life and that they feel the same about me."
H&O
"I want my self respect and pride back, which can only come from me prooving that I can do it on my own. Your attitude was always that I needed you, so why should you change. maybe if I show you how strong and capable I am you won't take me for granted if we get back together."
Admiration
"I don't want a needy relationship and that is what we had, Iwant a healthy solid relationship like what my parents and mema and papa have."
FC = Family Commitment

And then, you re not alone in your spouse saying they want to know the changes are real, that they are tired of hearing about changes that never stick. So don't *tell* her you are going to change; *show* her.

i totally agree with the following, it's worth reading again:
Quote
I commend your wife for responding to these questions for you. She has more or less given you the key/clues to what it will take for her to consider reconciling with you. You have the answer to that difficult exam that you faced with "The Walk Away Wive Exam."

Obviously only addressing her concerns about getting back together do not make for a perfect reconciliation. I am sure you have your concerns also about things you would like to see her work on or address on her side also. Those will also need to be addressed and the time for that will come. But your focus for now, should be addressing her concerns that she has. You need to earn back her trust and respect. She needs to be able to feel safe with you and right now she does not feel that. She is worried that you will make her feel small and unimportant as a person again. Prove her wrong. Let her grow and show her that you are proud of who she is and how proud you are of her for being so strong and self reliant. I her eyes she took a HUGE stand for herself by leaving you and her marriage. That was a big step for her in rebuilding her self respect.

Key that I see.

She wants to feel:

Self Sufficient
Self Respect
Confident
Able to care for herself
Independent
Respected by you

She is tired of all the fighting and arguing and wants to be able for the two of you to communicate and not fight and yell.


me - 47 tired
H - 39 cool
married 2001
DS 8a think
DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy:
(Why is DS7b now a blockhead???)
(Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
nugget #2111553 08/18/08 12:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
and I disagree with Nugget.

I have reviewed all your previous posts and strongly suspect your wife IS having an affair. She's at least already had several EA's and likely a PA in her past which COULD be an indication she's just foggy but I doubt it. Her response indicates her priority that you respect her space. It is the only reason she answered your questions at all as her affair is her single purpose right now. Space is the athem of the wayward but they want space AND they want you to continue paying for them. This ultimate entitlement mindset IS another strong indication of her current wickedness.

Perhaps she's moved to a state that requires 6 months or one year residency prior to being able to file for divorce there. She MAY just be waiting you out, alternatingly challenging you to file and then giving you some hope...in time, in the hope you won't file in your state. I presume your kids are young...and believe you need to take immediate action if you want them back in your life. She has no right to keep them from you and parental alienation is taken seriously by the courts.

Seek legal representation and get custody of your children. They need protection for her. Stop paying for her and demand equal time with your children. You MAY want to consider laying low and tricking her into allowing the kids to come visit you and then not sending them back. Absent a court order you both have the right to them and she is welcome to come home and visit them anytime she wants...just not to remove them from the state again. If you plan on going to her state anyway...then GO NOW...though I doubt that's a good way to save your marriage as the man she is seeing is undoubtedly there right now.

Anyway...stop wasting money on "marriage counseling" and invest it in a good private investigator. Your WIFE's infidelity is the greatest problem in your marriage right now. End the affair and THEN work on your individual and marital problems TOGETHER. Unilateral marital counseling is just ridiculous in this situation.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
MrWondering #2111555 08/18/08 12:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
In another thread you stated something to the effect that she was sick of you not trusting her and that this particular LB happened after she had an inappropriate relationship with a neighbor in your town.

REALITY CHECK...it is NOT an LB to distrust the untrustworthy.

This "trust me" syndrome is another indication of her very likely waywardness. YOU shouldn't trust her and it's NOT an LB to distrust her....it's a boundary.

You will TRUST her when she demonstrates trustworthiness over a sustained period of time. Until then you will not be played the fool...especially NOT when she moves out on you and takes your two children to another state 2000 miles away and DEMANDS you respect her "space".

Give me a break.

HIRE A PI & a ATTORNEY...ASAP.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
MrWondering #2111556 08/18/08 12:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,652
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,652
I have to admit, what I wrote was based just on this thread. So take what I wrote with that grain of salt - I haven't read your other posts/threads, and it sounds like I am missing a lot of info.

I still think that what I wrote is in line with Plan A, if you want to try to recover your M.

But if there are issues that require action in order to protect your kids, your family's finances, and yourself, please do so.


me - 47 tired
H - 39 cool
married 2001
DS 8a think
DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy:
(Why is DS7b now a blockhead???)
(Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
jayne241 #2111561 08/18/08 01:04 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 254
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 254
Originally Posted by jayne241
I have to admit, what I wrote was based just on this thread. So take what I wrote with that grain of salt - I haven't read your other posts/threads, and it sounds like I am missing a lot of info.
Same goes for me. I read only the information that was provided in the post you made here. If there are other threads or post with details pointing to an A, then that changes things some.

What are your current thoughts or knowledge as far as her being involved with someone? I know you have not had much contact directly with her, so you may be totally in the dark.

Not sure what a PI is going to accomplish. Prove whether or not she is having an affair. Then what? You confront her on it or you don't , depending on what he finds out. To me it is a waste of $. Yesh an attorney is a good idea if you are moving forward with a divorce you have got to protect yourself and your assets and your rights as a parent.


"HAVE A GOOD DAY" or do you have something else planned!!!

Married: 15 years
Divorced: 07/07
M: 36 yrs
W: 35 yrs
S: 5 yrs
nugget #2111564 08/18/08 01:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 26
C
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 26
First I want to than all of you for taking the time and effort to read and post.. First I am not sure if she is having an A or not.. When she left she wasn't, now I don't know.. I know that she doesn't wear her wedding ring anymore.. In my other posts what set the red flag off for the A to come in mind? i am clueless when it comes to that stuff.

cantbeliveit #2111595 08/18/08 07:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,736
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,736
Originally Posted by cantbeliveit
First I want to than all of you for taking the time and effort to read and post.. First I am not sure if she is having an A or not.. When she left she wasn't, now I don't know.. I know that she doesn't wear her wedding ring anymore.. In my other posts what set the red flag off for the A to come in mind? i am clueless when it comes to that stuff.

BIG RED FLAG.

Take it from a betrayed husband, she is pretty much on the wayward flight plan.

The advantage you have that most don't. She actually answered the questions.

I gave my former wife a similar set of questions and they went unanswered. I was promised an answer when the divorce she sought was final. Never got it.

So I would put more stock into her actions, than her words. Words are cheap, even those that are answers to questions.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't work on the things she's mentioned. But I'd also look for evidence of an affair.

And yes, establish custody of the children. Should it turn into a divorce, the courts will not want to change what is the status quo.

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 244
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 244
There is NEVER an excuse for an affair. It's the fault of the person who has one then is too immature to take the blame for their actions. So,one poster thinks HER needs are not being met?
This woman sounds awfully full of herself. It's like ""Jump through THIS hoop,then THIS one then THIS one and MAYBE I will think you are worthy of my presence and I won't break our kids family up".

jewelldy #2111955 08/18/08 03:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,714
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,714
Jeweldy, no one is saying the woman isn't responsible for her actions if she is having an affair.

However, when one spouse about to leave the marriage, that is not the time for the spouse who wants to save the marriage to start making demands to have his or her needs met. The party who is about to leave will be more likely to leave if asked to put any effort at all into the relationship.

It's important to have good boundaries, but that doesn't mean you don't try to meet your spouse's needs if your objective is to save the marriage.

And while the WS chose to have an affair rather than try to fix the marriage, or failing fixing the marriage, divorce, that does not mean the BS carries not responsibility for the state of the marriage. Note that I said "state of the marriage" and not "affair." So, all that's being recommended is that the poster change what he can to create an environment in which affairs cannot happen becuase romantic love has been reestablished between the two spouses.


Divorced.
2 Girls
Remarried 10/11/08
Widowed 11/5/08
Remarrying 12/17/15
Greengables #2111983 08/18/08 04:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 244
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 244
I understand what you are saying but it's a two way street. The blame should be placed on both,not just one. If they have tried all options, then they should divorce. The poster is blaming himself only as is his wife. I feel really bad for him. I don't know the particulars but I have a friend whose H left her because "she didn't make him proud". She worked full time,kept a beautiful home,gave him beautiful children. But he still didn't think she "deserved him". His new wife has a college degree.....and she's also a drug addict. And he is one sorry person. But my friend moved on.....and is proud of herself.:)

Last edited by jewelldy; 08/18/08 04:42 PM.
jewelldy #2112052 08/18/08 07:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 26
C
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 26
I really so want to save this marriage.. That is why I am jumping through all these hoops.. and I have to agree that you can push your partner into another persons arms if your not there to meet their EN.. It is both parties faults for that.. I'm not saying that its OK but its the result of neglect.. I found my problems or I should say I finally recognized them and first admitted them to myself, and I am working on them. I love my wife and my kids with all my heart and there is no hoop small or big enough that I wont go through for them..

cantbeliveit #2112116 08/18/08 08:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 244
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 244
can'tbelieve,you can NOT push your partner into anothers arms. That's THEIR choice and you have NO part in their flawed decision making. I'm not saying your wife is cheating but all the signs are there.
I believe that,if a person is unhappy in their marriage,they should work on it. If they are still unhappy,then,sadly,they should choose divorce. Saying,"You made me do it" is something a child says when they don't want to take responsibility for their actions.
My own husband tried this. Many years ago,before all our MC,he went on a tear through the house. He was incredibly destructive and then he turned to me and said,"YOU made me do this. You made me SO mad". I said,"No,it was YOUR hands that did it. YOU made the decision to tear the house up. No one can make you do something you don't WANT to do. YOU are responsible for your actions,not ME". I remember him standing there,taking it all in.
MC saved our marriage. I was lucky in that my H truly cared and wanted to save it. Was I at fault too? Yes but I did not blame HIM for my faults.
I think your self-esteem is low. It's like she is saying,"I'm so wonderful you are lucky to have me". It's called narcissism...self-love
She wants to go to a counselor to forgive YOU for being an [censored]? I would go when SHE stops being an [censored]. There are children involved here.IMHO,she's not as special as she thinks she is.
This is a 2 way street. And no one is so wonderful that you have to lower YOUR standards to have her be with you.

Last edited by jewelldy; 08/18/08 09:22 PM.

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,254 guests, and 50 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5