lildoggie,

we haven't sent the NC letter because 'she' was the one that called it off with my H and we didn't want to raise any dragons as someone said.... we talked to jennifer and she is ok with this for now.....

i do not 'require' a response from him.....i guess it's just how it used to be. he simply thinks now that if i'm not asking a question or something that would need a response that he doesn't have to be even 'considerate' by letting me know he got the text or email, etc.... he used to respond to everything.....not anymore since he's taken on his new identity.... you can bet if it were the slut OW he's be contacting her first! i guess i'm jealous at that to know that he used to be that way with me......

you are right about the OW....she didn't tie him up. yes, he is 50% responsible for his share in the A. i guess cause she made the first move and he decided to play along is why i'm so angry at her. she used our family to get to him.... this is where i blame myself - - i allowed him to be vulnerable to someone else taking my spot - known or unknown!

the past couple of nights my H hasn't read in FILSIL. he may be letting me catch up. we only have one copy and he started reading it one evening before i could get to it so i went back to reading SAA (we were both reading that originally). jennifer had us switch to the other. anyway, he's on ch. 14 and i'm in ch. 9...i'm trying to catch up, so maybe that's why he hasn't read the last couple of nights. i suggested we get another book (well, he did originally) but when i said ok, let's get another book, he said he's about done and would probably be able to finish up in about a half hour....he reads much faster than i do...

one thing i have noticed about other books he has read in the past is when he gets the part in the book that is gonna tell you how to get on with things and heal, etc....he stops reading. he has done that with a couple books anyway. i'm hoping he's just waiting for me to catch up. the chapter he is on is the 'giver/taker' one.... he knows his taker is completely in charge right now. maybe he doesn't want to read about it though.... i don't know. i'm choosing to believe he's waiting for me...

i have seen progress over the last weeks, especially since starting with jennifer but in the past week or so he's turned back. it's all about him not wanting to let her go..... i told him he can't have it both ways. and one way or another 'she' will be out of 'my' life....with or without him....

thanks for all the hugs and i agree about this time we're in.....it really stinks!

hmm, you say at first you dont require a response, but continue by saying several reasons why you would like a response. Perhaps you do require one.


Yes you did, but he didnt have to 'fill your spot'. I know this one is a hard one to work your head around, I am still working on it, but I am not as hard on myself as i used to be.


What are your thoughts on the recent turn about? has he had a trigger of some sort, or just letting the thoughts linger you think?

Recover, so they keep telling me does get better. I think I kind of agree

i guess i just want it to go back like it used to be.....he looked forward to hearing from me....i looked forward to hearing from him... all those 'just because' calls or emails..... i miss them. i know when he's out of his 'fog' he will look forward to it again. maybe i'm feeling if he responds back when i'm not asking a specific question..that if he does, then it will indicate to me that he is coming back to me... a baby step but something i look forward to again...

you are right - - he had no right to fill my spot! how dare he!!!!!! that's probably the biggest blow to my heart....that he is allowing someone else to take up residency in heart in place of me...... it cuts every time he says it's hard to let her go.... like our daughter said to him, 'yeah, i know that feeling, i had it when i liked so-and-so....it hurt for a while, but you get over it.' wow, i couldn't believe she said it...and to him!!! GET OVER IT ALREADY!!! Go daughter!!! :-)

yes, triggers and i can't help but think he lingers on thoughts of her too..... crap head!!

i am looking forward to the day that i agree that it's truly getting better.. we are still back and forth right now... glad for you that you are farther along.... wish i could hurry it up or help us both run faster.... but my H seems to be stuck in cement! i think it's up to his neck! well, that's good, he won't be able to use any of his body parts if she does come back to see him..... lol just kidding. it's pathetic actually....

he was very down today when he came home from work.... he changed and is sleeping on the couch before going to the gym..... i confessed to checking his messages.. i think it wounded him. he was already down so i'm not sure if i pushed him a little further 'down'.... ug.

when he layed down on the couch he sat in such a way that i knew he didn't want me to sit by him.... so i went around the backside and began rubbing his head and forehead and massaging his shoulders a bit.... i don't know if he wanted me there or not, he moved at one point but kept his arm so i could still reach it... to me, that was saying it's ok to be there...... we'll get through it. it's just a long, heavy haul for sure!!!

ya know....i don't want to just post all the crap about my H, cause i want you guys to really see that he is a good guy..... he's just taking baby steps....i think he's a snail actually....

he asked me to pray for him the other day to be strong and not listen to the country music as he 'lives there', 'finds comfort in it' and is reminded of her as their songs play and songs that played during their little fling play as well... well, to my knowledge he has been listening to his talk radio more. as far as i know, he hasn't had the country music on....but i haven't asked so don't really know for sure.... he said he knows this might be one way he has to let her go as well..... i've been praying for this for a long time now....

how do you ask about things without coming off like i'm checking up on him or don't trust him though........ such a hard road!

he went to the gym.... he's very down. he has that look about him again....those dark eyes that lets me know the wrong spirit is in control of him right now..... i hope he falls to the foot of the cross soon so he can feel the cleansing power of God's forgiveness and mercy upon his soul! why does he resist it so.....

gotta keep praying!

I know you want everyone to think he is a nice guy, he probably was at one point and will be one again, but this thread is not about him its a bout you, and honestly we can work out our thoughts about him by reading his thread.

Its good he is asking you to pray for him. my WH has shut down on God as far as i can tell. If God is still a focus ansd has some sort of impact on your H, then thats great!
If you are not noticing country (ewww bad music that) on the radio, thats great too. Some stuff you have to let go. I know that when Flick scrools thru the radio channels and stops even if briefly on OW's fav, it kills me a little but he moves on. I cant fight every battle right now, have to pick the most important ones. You to.
As far as...

I am not the best to ask. i am at the stage where I think 'tough mate, its all about me here' and I just do it. Was a bit funny the first few times, now doesnt worry me so much. from reading other threads I gather it does mildly annoy the WS but generally they accept its something the BS needs to feel safe.

As far as

tell him. He can not read your mind anymore than you can. You are worthy of being heard. Tell him what/how you feel. Then let it go. Whether or not he does something with the infomation is up to him. He has most certainly picked up enough information on MB to understand what ignoring your spouse will lead to.

And remember actions are better than words anyway.
Hhe is with you reluctant or otherwise.
If he never shapes up, you'll lose your love for him, and move on with a clear consence.

yeah, i guess when he gets to the point that he wants to move through this quicker and get to the other side, then you guys will know what kind of guy he really is..... he's certainly a keeper but i must admit.....i don't like who he has become....

yes, i don't fight him on the music either....it's one of those things that i am having to let him come to his own decision in his own time.....that time is coming i think.. :-)

i'll just try to figure a way out to find things out without just coming right out and asking him.... it's all about tone isn't it.... i'm learning that. i'll be gentle. i almost feel like he did realize that he has reduced our relationship to this though....i think he'll accept it. and i truly believe that someday i won't have to or even want to check his messages....

you're right about telling him how i feel... maybe in our half hour we get tonight i'll tell him that... we'll see. there might be a better time... i'll wait for the right time.

he has done much much much reading on the MB site....sometimes i think it's only to find out what he can get away with..... why is he so interested in reading other threads.... ??? he said cause it interests him.... it's one he thinks is close to ours...

actions definitely speak louder than words.... and he falls a little short here. he told me once that he would work his butt off to prove to me he loved me..... he's not working it off yet.....

i did thank him last night for being here with me..... that it told me he was somewhat committed whether he wanted to be or not....

yes, if he never shapes up, i'll lose my love for him and be able to move on. i'm praying he shapes up long before i get tot that point!!! he really is worth it when he's in his right mind....

well I'll quietly tell you what I am doing re checking up, but I will delete some of it later after work as i dont actually want flick to know everything

blar blar blar



another than that i just let it all go. I want to know if he starts up his A, which i dont really think he will...maybe.... but only so i can find my sharpest utensil

wow....is that what i'm gonna have to do.... i so want to trust my H again.... our bank acct is joint and i have the password although at one time the acct was separate and he changed the password but he changed it back so i have it now.....same with our cell phones....the accts were separated but then he put them all back together and i have the password.

we deleted his only yahoo email he had with her.... he doesn't have any other accts. i know that name and password but i'm sure he won't use the same name, etc if he were going to do it again....

never thought about the voice message on the phone being disabled, but we changed his cell number so i'm not too worried about that. it's his work stuff and of course him contacting her first.... ug. i pray he stays strong. but he's really low right now...i am handling him carefully....he's my precious cargo...

he told me he wants me to delete her contact from his computer from work....he brought it home over the weekend but we didn't do anything with it. again, i don't want to seem overly anxious to cut her out of his heart!!! but i'll do it in a heart beat!

i am learning to choose my battles for sure..... and probably the biggest hurdle i'm trying to leap over is not bringing up the A at all......i can honestly say i believe i've made it through today so far.... we still have our half hour this evening...but i'll hold my tongue.... i'm gonna tape a smile on my face if it kills me..... (jk, i'm not gonna die after all this work i've put in....i'm seein' it through to the end so i can reap the fruit of all this labor...) it will be sweet.

p.s. if you 'edit' your post to cut things out, etc.... will it edit in my thread as well.....

No, you dont have to do this sort of stuff, its what i do to make me feel safe.
You do what makes you feel safe.
I am not anywhere as compulsive about those things as i was 4 weeks ago, back then i would check several times a day. Now its every 1-2 days depending.

Someone on MB says it better than me..."trust, but verify anyway"

As far as taking her off things, if Flick showed any inclination to do anything i wanted, i ran with it there and then so he couldnt change his mind. Which is why I have one last thing for him to do

Choosing your battles is tough, i try to look at it as objectively as possible (really need a snort icon here) and work out if it is worth it, or to save the effort for someting else. it is amazing what I can relax on when i think like that.

How long has Not2l8 been NC?

Dont worry about us not liking your H.
I know exactly how you feel. I want to strongly defend my H from criticisim too (and not beacuse he might see my thread). I love him and I know he has great qualities and dont want all my negative posting to diminish all the other good stuff he has to offer.
But here is what I am learning. I accept my H for ALL that he is and when I write things aloud it works as a reality check for me. Yes he is Good and yes he also hurts me in these ways.
So its kinda heathy for you to live in the true reality of what and who your H is. Yes he is good and YES HE HURT YOU.

That being established (meaning I agree that your H is a Good Guy ) here is what I want to say to you. Now I am no expert on recovery by any means and yet I see red flags for you.
Given how you are feeling I am sure that is the last thing you want to hear from me but I defer to my ACCEPTING THE REALITY statement above.
I feel like you are justified in your "anger" and "sadness" from his withdrawl being put on your shoulder. He should not burden you will helping him withdraw and you should not be allowing him to respond to you with statements like "If I choose you then that means I loose her".
In my very humble opinion that is a very big flag for me.
On d-day I knew one thing for sure. I was not willing to attempt any recovery or continue any conversation regarding us if there was an OW in the picture. I needed a complete NC commitent even before I found this site.
What I have leared from this site is that as long as there is contact WS cannot let the fog lift and recovery cannot begin. I want to be the last person to say this to you but I think you need to entertain the thoughts of plan B. I am really sorry to say that to you, and I want to make sure to look out for your interests. Sometimes its hard tro see that what we are doing is hurting us.
If you continue to love and give and "fight for" and he continues to not return any love units to you, you will "Fall out of love" for him cause he will become super withrawn in his account. I am not sure how long plan A is supposed to last but I read that its not supposed to be indefinate ....

When is your next call with Jennifer? May be you need to express to her all of the concerns and feelings you have in your one on one and ask her expert opinion on this matter. I hope you can preserve your love for him while he figures his way out.

He will be damn fool to loose you as its apparant that you love him so much and it will be a shame if he comes to his senses too late.

Hang in there take care of yourself and let in sink in that you will be OK no matter what !

I wanted to let you know that I suggested your husband contact me and e-mail a bit and talk. I also suggested that he NOT set up any other e-mail accounts to do this, unless YOU want him to.

My e-mail address is to be forwarded by MB and will come to your home e-mail and then you can forward it to him at work as long as YOU are OK with this.

TST,
i am sure i will be forever grateful to you....reaching out to my H (and me). i definitely feel i am totally losing my H without any knowledge of why..... i don't understand why he continually 'chooses' to take steps backwards and away from me... well, i guess maybe i do....he told me in order to let me back in he would have to let her go.... and he's not willing to do that yet. (that last part was implied by me....he didn't actually say he wasn't willing to yet....)

so to answer your post....i am SO thankful you are wanting to talk to my H. AND, if he's willing to talk to you, that's even better. i'm just not sure he will want to hear what you have to say to him.... but, that's a DJ isn't it and not for me to judge what he does or doesn't want.. i just don't know what he wants anymore... well, one thing....the slut OW!!! (forgive me) if they're not in contact, my continual blasts at her are unfair (especially cause they're behind her back) (course, look what she did behind mine!!! and him too!!!! they both did a disgraceful thing!!! and to think they were lovin' it....)

gotta get off that subject!!

i think i would prefer not having another email address.... it was his secret before....and who's to say he wouldn't give the info to her if they ever did contact each other....

any ideas on how i could know what sites etc he's going to on his cell phone? when i check the bill online it only indicates a web connection....not what web address or if it's email, etc.... and then if he knows i'm checking, i'm sure he'll delete whatever he might be trying to hide anyway. seems like a lost cause to me... he was so sneaky and sly before.... right now, he still has that trait i'm sure...

i really feel i am developing more of a paranoia and distrust for him now... i have so tried to trust him....

so, talk to him if he'll talk to you.... i hope you can help him. i will continue loving him on my end and do the best i can to stay afloat... i will forward the email to him when it comes. he has not told me you contacted him about this... but i will be picking him up at lunch to take him to get his truck so maybe he'll say something then....

i will pray for God's guidance in your communication...

Thanks!

no - really - THANK YOU!!!

i haven't received anything yet from MB.

Hi 2b1again

I am glad to see your H posting to tst again

hey there wmf,

i'm so happy too that tst is reaching out to my H. he seems to be sinking...i think he fell all the way in that pitty pot...

i have been really sad today. i haven't even been posting today (except to tst).... i have about three i need to get to still, yours being one of them...

i was reading on your post today though....saw you asked schoolbus to post to me... i need to just get off my own pitty pot and move forward with or without my H.... so hard to think of being without him though... i think that's my biggest fear though.....that he will really leave me... why am i afraid of this....technically he already left me didn't he, and he's just fighting coming back..

i really hope tst will be able to help my H. he doesn't really have anyone here that is encouraging him at all.... he KNOWS what he's supposed to do, he just doesn't want to do it.....

i am going walking for a while. will try to get home to fix my H's dinner (or at least the taco shells). before he left (to meet a friend and go to the gym) i told him that i want him to know that he's my number 1 priority.....that i'm trying to meet his ENs if he would let me. and that i have been reviewing the sheet of his EN (i wrote everything down he said) and trying to do the 'i'd love it ifs' and the 'i love it whens' but that i needed him to tell me just what it is that he wants me to do....more of something, less of something, do this and not that...or whatever... i told him that it will only work if he 'allows' me to meet them - - whatever they are..... he just leaned on the edge of the bed and stared at me. he probably wanted to tell me to get out of his life really.....i don't know.... i'm just hurt that's all.....

but walking will be good for me. i'll walk it out...and off! (i had pizza and pepsi for dinner....not the healthiest of foods....) i will be joining the gym hopefully in a few more weeks at the latest.....waiting for the 'special' of the membership fee to be waived.... i don't know...i think i'd rather just pay it and start now! i'm motivated now! but my friend will be going with me.... so, until then, we'll just be walking...

i hope you had a better day. seems you and your H are doing pretty good....lucky you - - no, lucky him! keep up all your good work and love your man. he loves you....he just got sidetracked in the worst way possible..... :-(

gotta get going.... i'll check in later and try to tomorrow. i'm behind in my transcribing and we leave friday with a college bound daughter....who happens to be partying her little heart out (or is that her liver...lol). she got a huge tattoo last night on her side.... it's a cross with a heart on it and underneath it says: forgiveness holds the heart together.... she's hurting too in all this.... she has lost her 'real' dad.... and he can't see that...or if he does, he doesn't really care, cause he wants what he wants.....

life! ug!!!

2b1,

I've read through your thread.

I have a few words that I hope will help you.

First off, please understand that his affair was never about YOU. It was all about him.

Affairs are the epitome of selfishness.

So every time you find yourself going down that road you keep going down - you know that road - where you say "if I had been a better wife" or "if I had met his needs" or "if I had ...." then he wouldn't have had the affair?

You are wrong. Because the affair

was not about YOU.


Not. About. You.

He chose it. He lived it. He fantasized it. He had it.

Nowhere in there was it about you.

So every time you find yourself going down that road, make a U-turn.


Not about you.


I also see that your husband has said to you that he thinks you are sometimes insincere about things. I read that in your posts, too, when it comes to believing him about wanting to recover the marriage. You do say you are not sure that he is committed to it, and he is bound to see that in you in person. Somewhere along the way, you need to believe something from him. He is there with you, right? He is in counseling, right? He is reading, posting......so there is actually something going on.

My advice is that at some point, you have to give him something to go on. He needs to feel that you have some level of belief in him - because if you don't - what does he have left?


Oh - BTW - you think your posts are long? You're looking at the expert on that, girl. Move over.


And do you know how strange it is to enter a thread and see your own name bandied about as a "vet". Bizarre. I don't think of myself that way. I'm just a goofball who managed to patch up a marriage on a wing and a prayer and squeeze out the other side with things intact.

(Now MEL and PEP, those folks are VETS! And I think they are older than I am, too. )

I made lots of mistakes along the way - LB's, DJ's, and Plan FU included.

Hey, some of them worked. Others, not so much.


And I did my share of crying.


Which brings me to DJ's and LB's. I can see that you do some DJ stuff in your posts. And some sarcasm in your talking with H. I did that. I took digs at him whenever I had a chance, and this was NOT in the workable plan. See, I saw it as something he "deserved" and probably needed to just accept as his consequences for what he did.

He thought the same thing - for awhile. Then, he thought it was punishment, and that I was taking it too far. Then, it lasted too long, and I was just downright mean. And he was right - I was being mean because at that point I was in the anger phase, and I was feeling plenty mean.

And those little sarcastic remarks, those constant probing questions, they really were meant to dig at him. Did I really need to ask him every day about contact, or was it alright if we agreed for him to tell me if it happened and for me to have a check system in place for me to freely double-check on my own? Did I have to dig at him constantly to "know" - or was I using this as a way to remind him constantly of my pain and his wronging me?

After a certain point, it was me digging at him. It wasn't me needing information.

It was me somehow keeping that wound open, not me working to close it.

Somehow, I needed that wound to be wide and raw, because I had not a clue as to what to do for the next step - beyond the pain phase - and how to become close again and leave the anger and pain behind.

And constantly digging at him was what "worked" for me at the moment, so I did it.



I'm asking you to question yourself. Do you trigger yourself? Do you use sarcasm to maintain the anger, to let him know you are still hurt? To dig back at him because he is in withdrawal? This only prolongs the problem, really. You know that, right?



Finally, for this post anyway, my favorite piece of advice.

You only control one person in this world - yourself. Focus on how you act and react, and change that. When you are a master of yourself, you are a master of everyone around you.




SB

2b1again



It Ok to be Sad with all that you are faced with. Just dont let it drag you down. Cry it all out if need be, or better yet Walk it out. There is no substitute for doing something positive like walking. I love the feeling I have immediatley after/ during a walk. Its cleansing and healthy and makes you feel more positive and energetic.
So enjoy your walk. I am sure you will come back more refreshed than you are now.

I know its hard to not be focused on your H's recovery but please please please focus on your own first. I know it seems like a vital part of your recovery of you but as much as your recovery is connected to his it is also some what distinct and seperate. Your H (P.S. a growm man) is hurting and you need to make sure you take care of you while you continue pouring into his bucket. His bucket has a lot of holes like a sieve and unless he patches some of them holes most of your efforts will drain away.
Be hopeful for his progress but at the same time do not stop working on your own healing as you hold your breath for his.

Keep replenishing yourself so that when your H is ready to receive your love and care that you will have enough to give him.

For what its worth sit on the pity pot as long as you want until you have read sores and you are ready to get up

No matter what you do or dont do your H has to make his choice of what he wants all on his own. You can show him what you have to offer (hence the plan A) but you cant make him want it. None of us want to imagine being on a path that leads us away from our spouse , hence we are all here on a MARRIAGE BUILDING website. No matter how horrible your stich seems to you just rememeber that there are countless (yes countless) others who are or have been in the same (or worse, I know its hard to imagine worse) stich as you. See the success stories around here look back at the really early posts of some of the vets (especially FWHs) and you will see how Fog filled and traumatic their ordeals were. And them look at their current posts and wisdom. You will see there is plenty of HOPE out there.
So dont just see sadness see hope and happiness in the big picture and let the details of how you get there work themselves out.

So be the best you can be for yourself. Give the best you can give to the one you love . Find happiness in what ever constructive ways that makes you happy. Let your happiness be the one thing that shines thru and lifts you ( and hopefully your H).

I think you both need some happiness and some form of temporary break from this ever present sourcse of unhappiness.


I hope walking helps provide some welcome relief and clarity for you

Since you like my name I'd just like to add that if you notice my sig line, it says I wanna move forward and be happy. Not I wanna move forward from this A and be married at all costs, but rather I wanna move forward from this pain and be happy. I am proud of that goal I set for myself and I know I will get there. Not sure how and I am sure I will screw up along the way but I WILL get there. I hope that includes me being married to my DH for a long long long time (till death do us part and all that) but my success/happiness is not defined merely by it.

I know in the end you will find Happiness too ( I think I can , I think I can)
The purpose of life is the pursuit of happiness - Dalai Lama

Sb-
Sorry I was too busy typing my epic post so I did not read yours before I posted. Well I guess I take the prize on the longest post this round


I love that your path was not "perfect". It allows you to see all the huge mistakes that we are making and wave the red flag and say BTDT DONT DO IT.