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 Originally Posted By: hurtmomof2
Pepperband,
Since you are probably one of the best to give advice, I want ask you this.



Hurtmomof2-

Thank you for asking me for my opinion.
Now I think it is time you call a professional and seek their guidance.


We offer opinions on the discussion forums - the Harleys are marriage coaching professionals and can show you a roadmap back to a happy and safe marriage should you choose to remain married.


Pep

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Medc,

How am I supposed to enforce NC with OW? She is single. How would he be able to pick up the OC without having C with her?


Me: BS-37
WH: 39
OC born 6/08
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It can be done. Use an intermediary to pick up the child. I have worked this out in my own life with parents that are entitled to see foster kids...but that I do not wish to see them based on their behavior.

An intermediary would be your best bet.

DNA is very important too.

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Pep,

H and I do have appt. with MC in 2 weeks. His idea. His job transfer came through and he will be moving home permanently this weekend. We were not separated, he was working out of town during the week and coming home on the weekends.

Told him there was no way to recover from this long distance.

OW is local to my area.


Me: BS-37
WH: 39
OC born 6/08
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 Originally Posted By: hurtmomof2
Medc,

How am I supposed to enforce NC with OW? She is single. How would he be able to pick up the OC without having C with her?


This is exactly why you should not trust snakes!

YOU or a trusted intermediary (court assigned) would be the one to pick up/drop off OC for court ordered visitation.

This all needs to be done legally - which is why DNA proof is necessary.

Pep

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There really is no one to be the go-between. I suppose I can insist that my oldest child (daughter-16) go with him when he picks up OC, that way I can be assured that nothing will happen between them. Having just wrote that makes me sick to my stomach, the fact that I distrust him so much.


Me: BS-37
WH: 39
OC born 6/08
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 Originally Posted By: hurtmomof2
There really is no one to be the go-between. I suppose I can insist that my oldest child (daughter-16) go with him when he picks up OC, that way I can be assured that nothing will happen between them. Having just wrote that makes me sick to my stomach, the fact that I distrust him so much.


court ordered intermediary - like a social worker

NOT your daughter

NEVER should your daughter be asked to clean up after and take responsibility for her father's adultery

NO!

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you can hire an intermediary. Sort of like a baby sitter/child care person that receives compensation for their work. That is how it is worked out through our county.

Trust me, should you decide to do this...there is a way to work out these details.

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 Quote:
the fact that I distrust him so much


he has harmed you and your children and cannot be trusted to stop harming you and your children - not yet and not for awhile

he's still blind to the actual depth of your pain and to the extent of harm he's done to your children and the depth of harm he's done to OC

he will ask you to endure more pain and suffering and cloak it as your moral obligation


get DNA

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H will do what he wants, I can't force him to do anything. He will not get a DNA test, he insists the OC is his. I do not agree that waiting until OC is 18 to start a relationship is the best thing.

You're either going to have C or have NC. It's not rocket science.
What guarantee is there that OC would even want a Relatioship with a father she has not seen until she is an adult?

A million things could happen in 18 years. OW could get married have more children with new H. OC will be loyal to that family if that's all they ever knew.

I also don't agree that every person who has OC is going to use Oc as a way to have sex with OW. Consenting adults.......if they're going to do it, they will, OC need not be a factor in that equasion.


Me: BS-37
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I personally would insist on a DNA test if I were the BS. That would be a deal breaker for me.

You need to set the boundaries that are important to you.

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Just so no one gets the wrong idea. I was not saying this just to pep, but to everyone who responded to me. I don't want it to seem like I was singleing her out.


Me: BS-37
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Have you scheduled the DNA test?

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Wow I missed a lot since this morning...

Any hurtmomoof2 ...

You are receveing some good advice and some not so good advice from some folks ...after reading the thread... I strongly suggest you take some time out think to think about your wants and needs and not what you husbands needs are. You have some big decisions to make.

And by the way the following poster is right when they said that H was telling you the truth about wanting C with OC. You can't ignore that fact and you now need to decide what you are going to do but you should have DNA test first...

1. Integrate OC in your life and allow C
2. Divorce because you believe C w/ OC is not for you.3.

Just remember none of these choices are optimal but for you to know what is best for you need to step back , breathe and discover what your wants and needs are and do what is best for you. Please discover your power/ your inner strenght.

I also want to share something else with you when you are contemplating your decisions and may be good to discuss with your H and kind of piggybacks off of Pepperbands info about this being a marriage building site. I added this excerpt to it before sharing it with my H to put the OW and OC in perspective..

Quote:

I do not know about you… but the last time I checked it takes two to have an A and two to make a baby and it is wrong especially in this day and age when people choose to have an A, to have an A w/someone who is married and furthermore to have an A with someone who is married and has children and then get pregnant on top of that. Especially when women now hold more power and control over their reproductive choices then men, and when a pregnancy can be prevented and or taken care of. Don’t get me wrong men are to be held accountable as well for not protecting their W‘s and COM’s but in our society today women alone hold most of power when it comes to choices such as these. The OW knows this and will use the power of seduction to get what she wants.

This is also a classic tactic in how an OW tries to keep, trap, use guilt by a means of moral obligation and make it very difficult for the BS to forgive the WH so he will return to the OW. The OW is trying to seal her fate because they feel the WH/WW owes them. It is like saying…

“I got you now and I am not letting go of you without a fight. If I lose I will destroy everything you value more than me and if I do not destroy it I will make you pay for not choosing me by making your life difficult and full of regret!”

WH’s need to realize that this a NONVERBAL FIGHT and that the OW views this as a win- win situation and views the WH in a win- lose situation and the BS in a lose-lose situation.. The OW lets the outcomes speak for themselves while patiently waiting, going on with life like WH does not matter, playing nice, being understanding, coming across as being rational and cooperative and occasionally taking jabs at the BS via disrespectful comment/judgments and trying very hard to be the total opposite of the picture painted of the BS by the WH when they were pursuing their A. Remember you went to the OW/OP because they were someone you could talk to, was understanding and was very accommodating of your emotional needs. The OW/OP knows this will try to continue to be this way. Easy going!

The OW will remain quiet, will not expose the WH and will keep his secrets, and whatever else she convinces/manipulates the WH into doing by using his guilt over MORAL OBLIGATION to the OC and the BS and COM (if any) against him. She will also make it known to WH that she does not want the OC around the BS. A tactic displayed by the OW that keeps the WH in a position where they cannot mingle the two worlds without difficulty, which also puts him in a compromising position with the OW and the BS which encourages the WH to maintain the secret second life which creates more deception and feelings of betrayal for the BS. The OW is letting the naive WH dig a bigger hole for themselves to get out of and pretty much destroying all chances of recovery with the BS. The WH’s pretty much unknowingly just HANG THEMSELVES.

The OW will also, if the opportunity arises, create more doubt in the mind of the BS if discovered and confronted. Remember the BS is in the way and has always been the barrier to getting WH and the OW wants to and has always wanted to take the BS’s place. Her ultimate goal is to have WH as her H and be the W and raise the OC together. If the OW /OP cannot have that then no one will. To further illustrate this point …Did your OW/OP start planning a life with you and offered to help with your transition if and when you decided to leave your W and COM (if any)? Was the OW/OP willing to accept your COM (if any) in her life? Most of the time this will also ring true … The OW/OP’s do not want the OC around the BS. I find this interesting and so should you. Did your OW/OP disclose this need to you?

Also realize that the OC is being used for OW’s personal gain and make no mistake about it. It is a selfish tactic that is being applied at the OC’s expense. The OW would not intentionally or blatantly do this because it would make her look bad as a mother and she must come across as being protective and loving of the OC because the OC is a part of the WH, the man she loves and has always wanted and deep down still wants. WH ‘s have a hard time understanding or believing this concept but they need to know that it does happen and it is happening and it happens just under the radar. WH’s need to realize they should not underestimate the power of a woman with low moral values. They are usually seductive, quietly manipulative and quietly vindictive and will use these characteristics to their advantage if necessary.

Due to this you should take heed to this quote from Dr. Harley…

__________________________________________________________________________________
Quote:
My advice is to avoid contact with the child until he or she reaches
adulthood.

_________________________________________________________________________________

Which means…Adulthood. Age of consent. Co-mingling of all the siblings when there is no OW/OM contact posing a danger/threat to the marriage.

With any luck - a good 20 or more years will pass where you will have a real opportunity to rebuild your marriage and enjoy a fulfilling relationship without distractions.

In the interest of MARRIAGE BUILDING
__________________________________________________________________________________
Quote:
There are three parts to the way affairs should end. The first part is revealing the affair to one's spouse, the second part is never seeing or communicating with the lover again, and the third part is getting through symptoms of withdrawal after a permanent separation takes place.
Let me tell you what comes next in the script where OW is telling the betrayed wife what she is "morally obligated" to do:

"The OC is innocent."


Yes - let's agree to absolve all the innocent persons from the wrong decisions made by others.

The faithful spouse and the faithful spouses' children are also innocent. Are they resilient enough to be thrown under the bus? The OP/OW is the bus driver by the way.

Something to think about…

End quote


BS
WH-(to old to know better)
COM- 2 DS (toddlers)
DDay- 4/28/08
OC- NC
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No............he will not take one. insists baby is his. Besides, who's going to pay for that? H has extremely good job.

But for the past 8 months, we have been keeping up two households due to him working out of town. Very expensive!

My mortgage alone is $3200.00 plus a $400.00 Home Owner's Association fee. I have a lot of expenses. Yes, we may have money, but it's not like you think.......the more you have, the bigger the bills etc...


Me: BS-37
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 Originally Posted By: hurtmomof2
No............he will not take one. insists baby is his. Besides, who's going to pay for that? H has extremely good job.

But for the past 8 months, we have been keeping up two households due to him working out of town. Very expensive!

My mortgage alone is $3200.00 plus a $400.00 Home Owner's Association fee. I have a lot of expenses. Yes, we may have money, but it's not like you think.......the more you have, the bigger the bills etc...
18 years of child support and courtroom drama will cost far more than a DNA test. Here is the thing hurtmom, it is up to YOU to choose if you want to stay with your H and accept OC without DNA. Others have done it, however you will never know for certain and you will be legally obligated for life (your H will). You can have your own boundaries, that gives you your own power here.

Example,

"husband, I want to work on our M. I am willing to consider C with OC (with NO OW in picture) if you will get legal paternity done and get visitation/cs set up legally. I love our home and our family and want to PROTECT them. We need you to protect our family."

or "husband, I cannot accept this OC in my life. I love you and want our marriage but I cannot at this moment see myself being able to accept this child"

This puts the ball into his court to do what he needs or you have your chance to walk away. I KNOW this is not easy. I KNOW that many of us have moved our boundaries, only to suffer even more at the hands of the OW, H and even the courts. It really stinks all the way around.

Last edited by faithful follower; 08/27/08 01:55 PM. Reason: spelling

Faith

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the only difference between the guy making 200k and the one making 30k is the number of zeros at the end of his debts


me-59 ww-55
married 1979 - together since 1974
6 kids together 15,19,21,23,29,30
my oldest son 37
d-day (confession day) memorial day 2001
oc born 12/20/01
now 8 grandchildren
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If (and that's a big IF) I decide to have C with OC, H is going to tell OW that I will be involved in the child's life. If she says she doesn't want that, then I will go with H on any visits he has with OC, whether in public or OW home. I will have no problem confronting her. When it comes to situations where a confrontation might take place, I have never been weak. I am not a violent or angry person, but I have always been able to stick up for myself, in a mature and adult manor. Without screaming and swearing, and never any physical violence. Besides pounding on H chest in an emotional breakdown,the last time I hit anyone was in a fight in 8th grade.

I have no intention of letting this woman ruin what I have built over the past 18 years. Two beautiful smart children who go to a very good catholic school that H and I chose, a nice home, solid long term relationships with family and friends, active in my church. Family memories of vacations and such.

All my previous posts were of an emotional nature and being frightened of what is to come. Not that I am still not concerned, however this is preety much how I operate. At first I get very emotional, sad, depressed, crying. When I finally pull myself together, I can be very strong. I am starting to feel that way right now. I will not allow this woman to destroy (or try to)or hurt anyone in my family. I am stronger and wiser than her. She is a big drinker. I know this for a FACT, and I also know for a fact that she has had relationships with women.

I've even seen a picture of her, and not to sound vain or conceited, I am 100 times prettier than her, and H even agreed with that (what else would he say? LOL :))I am finding this board quite comforting. I also like very much how mature all the people here are. We can disagree on a subject and voice our opinions freely, without the worry that we will be flamed or ganged up on. I have gotten so much good advice. I need to step back, take it all in, and then I am going to make my gameplan.

With God's help, I truly believe I will suceed.


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 Quote:
With God's help, I truly believe I will suceed.
Amen! God's blessings on you, hurtmom.


Faith

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Pops,
Totally agree \:\) I even said, the more you make, the bigger the bills. I am very lucky to live a good lifestyle and be able to stay home with my children. Even though I am very angry with H right now, he has worked EXTREMELY hard to get to where he is at today. He has been a wonderful provider for our family, and I do have to admit a good, attentive father to my children. A good husband? Yes. but not any longer. He is going to have to do some very hard work to regain my trust.

Last edited by hurtmomof2; 08/27/08 03:00 PM. Reason: spelling

Me: BS-37
WH: 39
OC born 6/08
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