Then do it RIGHT, tarnsy. Don't set yourself up for another FAILURE. If you settle for these crumbs, you will have............crumbs.

Your h has no intention of participating in recovery AS IT IS. He believes you will accept him UNCONDITIONALLY.

And that is true so far. If you accept back under these *NO* conditions, you will have gone through the last 2 years for nothing. You are almost at the finish line, don't give up now!

Tarnsy

first let me say that your story is the perfect example of someone who was 100% certain that her M was over, the WH's A would last forever, and this would turn out to be the one A that would last.

A's end. they do.

I think the only thing I can add here, is that you really do need to stick to your boundaries, but do so with love. I hope that makes sense.

Something like this:
"H - I love you. I want to build a better M with you. I want to support you in every way I can. I am asking you to support me as well, by writing the NC letter. It is a symbol to me, of your willingness to committ to me, and our M, and completely sever all ties with OW. this letter will make me feel safe. Please do this for me"

one other thing - when you get ugly emails like that, the best thing you can do is leave it alone and don't respond. Your first reaction is to respond - quickly, with a long, well written response. But I would suggest that you just let it go. if you respond at all, just type a simple "I look forward to talking to you tonight when you get home. Love you. Have a good day"

when he types emails like that - he knows, inside, that he is wrong. that is why he types it - instead of saying it you face to face. He is scared. truly scared. But he can not admit his fears - so instead he tries to shout out (type out) his demands.
He is in panic mode. he expects you to respond back to him in panic mode as well. So throw him off balance by staying calm. Stay focused. Repeat your mantra "I love you, I am looking forward to a great M with you!! we had a wonderful weekend together, and I wnt to have more like that!! But I am scared. I am terrified of the OW. I just want to feel safe."

I know the feeling that you get when you see an email like that. the fear, the doubt, it all comes rushing back. But let it go, don't respond, and see what happens.
He expects you to respond. He expects you to be angry and out of control. Surprise him. Be calm. I would imagine that OW would have responded in anger - you are better than that.

Tarnsy my hubby didn't express his remorse for a long time, but when he did it was sincere and he had done a lot of soul searching, this is going to take time.

Womanoffaith made a lot sense to me, and the other posters are right too he will test you every chance he can,and he is still messed up.

Be firm but tell him "in love", not in a demanding way...

(((hugs))) F26

Hello Wof5, good to hear from you again. You were one of (if not the) first to reply to me on my original thread. You always had wise words before and you do again.

Well, WH and I had the convo last night. I approached it from as loving a stance as I could muster stating that I needed WH to write the NC letter out of respect for me, to prove that he was willing to do the work necessary to attempt R and to show that he was true to his word about having NC.

WH's first reaction was to say he felt that it was an insult to OW to write the letter as she was so adamant that the A was over. It was at this point that I asked WH if he was afraid of hurting OW's feelings more than he was of mine. WH waffled something about it not being about that.

We left it that WH would have a think about it on his journey to see a customer tomorrow as it he would be alone in the car for a couple of hours and would have time to think.

I sent WH a text this morning telling him I was thinking of him, that I loved him and that I would continue to be the wife he deserved. WH replied that he knew that, it was him that needed to try harder to find the love. I replied that I was sure it was there just buried deep and that all I needed from him was some commitment to our marriage and a willingness to do the work needed and that then the love would come.

So, WH returned home earlier, we had a nice family dinner and a glass of wine and then relaxed in front of the tv to watch the Olympics. Earlier, WH had said on the phone that he felt better today than he had in ages that the anxiety he has been feeling had not appeared. Initially I was pleased for him but then I wondered if this meant that C had been made.

I asked WH why he thought that he had been less anxious today and he said that he thought it was because he had been out of the office most of the day away from the phone calls (business is suffering from severe cash flow problems). Told WH that I hoped that that was it as I had wondered if it had meant that NC had been broken.

WH sighed and said "thats what is making me anxious, wondering what I am coming home to, you repeating yourself all the time. To this I just said that he had told me last night that he would take the time today to think about the NC letter. that I had waited long enough and that I needed to know if he was willing to write it or not. To my dismay WH said "I don't know".

Well, this wasn't good enough for me so told WH that if he wasn't going to write the letter then he could pack up his things and tell our DD's that he was leaving. WH replied "ok then, if that's what you want I'll tell them now shall I?" I said "yes, if that's what you want".

At this point WH got up and went into another room where DD's were playing on the Wii. Didn't hear anything coming from the room other the odd giggle ao I assume WH didn't say anything. WH has since come out of the room, gave me a playful nudge as I am writing this post and blew a raspberry!!

This has all happened in the last hour. I believe I called WH's bluff, he has had the perfect opportunity to leave again but so far hasn't taken up the offer. So my question is I guess, is what should my next move be? Do I keep restating that I need him to write the NC letter for me, so that I can feel secure or do I leave it? WH knows where I stand but it's falling on deaf ears! Help!!

Tarnsy

Bumping - need some advice please!!

Hi Tarnsy,

How did the weekend go??

Are you doing ok?

Hi F26,

Well, overall the weekend went very well. It was a holiday over here so WH had an extra day off work. I'll give you a "blow by blow" account of what occured.

Friday evening was going well until I asked WH to pass me his phone so that I could check to see if OW had called again as it was a Friday when she called last time. There was no record of any calls made to or from her number but then I checked the message log (not the actual messages) and it showed that WH had texted OW on the 12th. When questioned WH couldn't remember why he had texted her but said he thought it was to reply to a message from her. I don't buy that he doesn't remember - WH has a memory like an elephant - but I will have to accept this for now.

Well, I told WH this is a prime example of why I need the NC letter and that if it isn't written by the end of the weekend then his things will be on the front lawn! We ended up having a long discussion and I asked WH if he ever felt any remorse for his actions. He said that when he used to go outside for a cigarette at OW's house he would often feel regret at the hurt he has caused me and DD's and that he saw a shooting star one night and made a wish. WH has often refered to this wish but had never told me what it was - he said that his wish was that I would love him forever. This was either part of his cake eating, wanting me to love him even while he was "in love" with OW, not wanting me to move on and love somebody else or he "knew" deep down that his r with OW wouldn't last and that he wanted me to still be around when that time came. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt!!

Anyway, WH agreed (again!) to write the letter by Monday night. We stopped the serious talking there and went on to talk about our top 5 fantasy partners including who we would fancy if we were the other gender! This turned out to be hilarious! We had some correlation in our choices and it was quite enlightening to find out what sort of man WH would find attractive if he was a woman! So we went to bed on a good note after the mini drama of the text message.

Saturday was as usual. I took DD9 dancing whilst WH went into the office and he picked us up in time to see DD have her private lesson. This was the first time he had watched her and it was nice to include him in something that DD and I normally do on our own. I am now working on getting WH to have dancing lessons as part of our RC as that is something we are lacking at the moment.

Saturday night we went out for dinner with friends who WH hasn't seen since before the A. I realise that this would have been a little awkward for WH but he was happy to come. He has known Jayne much longer than I, since he was a child infact, and apart from Jayne telling him that she was glad to see us back together and that he had better not hurt me again, the A time wasn't mentioned.

On the way to meeting our friends I did tell WH that I wanted him to tell me if OW or anyone connected to her was there, he didn't seem to appreciate why this was important to me so I asked him how he would feel in my shoes. WH then brought up NC again and said he couldn't understand why I think it is wrong for his family to have NC as well. I told him that this was to prevent C between him and OW and to prevent messages or information being passed between them. WH just seems to think that I am trying to control him and that I have no right to tell his family who they can and can't talk to. I approached this by telling him that if his BIL had had an affair, would his sister then want me to talk or be friends with the OW. I don't know if WH get's why this is important yet, I hope it's just because he is still early in the W process.

Anyway, we had a lovely evening, great food, great wine and great company. WH said he looks forward to doing it again. Oh, and the best part for me was when WH leant over and gave me a kiss on the lips in front of a packed bar. And yes I told him that was my favourite bit of the night.

Sunday was a relaxing day at home. We didn't get up till late and WH had a bit of a hangover. WH watched the Grand Prix and then we cooked a nice meal. WH went round our neighbours for the evening who used to be one of his closest friends before the A but has only seen a handful of times in the last 2 years, so it was good to see that normal things are happening again.

Yesterday we all went to a small seaside town. It was a typical "grey" English day, no rain but not alot of sun either! We went on some rides, had dinner and overall had a fun day. I hated to spoil a good weekend but I reminded WH that he had promised to write the NC letter. I gave him the pen, paper and SAA turned to the appropriate page. WH took them and went into the dining room. I went through about 20 minutes later to find WH with his head in his hands but with the letter written.

I asked WH what it was particularly that had upset him. He was reluctant to talk but eventually said that he felt I was controlling him. I restated what I had said before, that this was what I needed him to do to show he was willing to work on our M, that if he didn't want to do it that was fine but that would mean that he would have to leave. I told him that if he wanted I would rip the letter up but that would be the end of us and he would never see me again. WH put the letter inside SAA and said read it tomorrow, if it's ok with you then I'll sign it when I get home.

So, I have read the letter, it is more or less word for word the example in SAA. Immediately though I noticed that WH had put "out of respect for my wife and love for my children" etc, when in the book it says "out of respect and love for my wife and children". To some this may seem petty but I would like WH to use this part word for word. My reason being that because OW is a female I know a bit about how her mind will work and I believe she will see that sentence and think "he didn't put love for his wife, that means he doesn't love her therefore he still loves me". What do you think? I am just being paranoid? Should I ask WH to change this? I know WH doesn't love me (it hurts to admit that ) but I don't want OW to know that!!

Well, that was longer than I thought it would be! Sorry to ramble!

Tarnsy

Oh Tarnsy the weekend sounded nice and "normal" which is huge.

As far as the NC letter, in my opinion I would accept the letter as he wrote it. I so can understand why you would want him to say "I love my wife", but maybe he can't right now. And writing that letter is a big step I think, so maybe concede this battle and win the war instead of pushing him to write it as you want it and him feeling that he was pushed and controlled. (just my 0.02 cents

I do not believe for a minute that he does not love you, why would he of wished his wish opon a star if he didn't love you? Why didn't he turn his back and walk away? Because he does love you. He's still very foggy and confused, I used to say my hubby was like a deer caught in the headlights of a car, he was frozen couldn't move left or right, just stood waiting for the car to hit him.

Things are going well and it is going to take time,, you know the recovery dance 2 steps forward one step back.

Speaking of dancing very good idea having you and him take classes together it will give you something in common. Hubby and I started taking Karate classes about 4 years ago and it has been the best thing ever for our marriage.

F26

Tarnsy:

First: STOP THREATENING him with "Your thowing him OUT" if he doesn't do something.

In one week you threatened him with this about 4 times.

So, Your threats mean nothing.

The NC letter still doesn't get sent. Because your WH is still in contact and doesn't want it to end.

If the letter is NOT ACCECPTABLE to you then tell him WHAT your require him to change and have him rewrite it. Then sign it, then you MAIL it.

But do not threaten. If you say you are going to pack his bags if he does not do "this" by 2:00 pm, then start packing the bags at 2:05 pm.

Your little arguement about telling the children? And then he goes in the other room, and you stay put, You should have gone in there after your WH went in there, turned off the telly, asked your children to listen to WHAT daddy has to say, and then SAT DOWN and listened. Made good on your threat.

Otherwise, your just throwing these threats around without the backbone to enforce them. Over and over again.

Your not controlling a recovering spouse, your "controlling" an active wayward spouse. He is deleting the call records and text's, but there are so many, that he misses some.

Time to hand him YOUR PHONE, and you take HIS PHONE. And then you watch what happens. When someone calls for WH, you answer, find out who the caller is and then advise them of WH new number. You will find that WH is getting MORE calls/TMs than you thought.

Yes, the OW was "FUN and GAMES". But he left her, didn't he? And now he's back.

Let him KNOW what your boundaries are. And what you REQUIRE, and your timelines for that. And if he agrees to do something by Tuesday, then by golly, on Tuesday, enforce your THREAT. Make sure HE KNOWS what the enforcement action is, and then YOU ENFORCE it.

He's still cake-eating. But you keep putting the cake out there.

LG

1. Men do not like to feel "controlled". Frankly, I think your WH is being an idiot - how can he think that your are controlling him when he has spent the last 2 years living with some 2 bit Ho and running his business into the ground? But, still, I know that men do not like to feel controlled. It takes away from their mojo.

2. My new H and I wnet for counseling for a few months, early in our M, to make sure we were starting out right. One of the things the counselor said that has really helpd me, is that we both need to remember to always look at things from the others persons perspective - to have empathy. It sounds like you are trying to do that, and encouraging him to do the same.

As a woman, I agree with your thoughts that OW would read this letter and feel like "he did not say out fo love for his W, so he does not have love for her". But if I step back for a minute and look at this from his eyes - I really think he is trying. And you may need to give him a little bit of space here. After all, she will get the letter. it will be in his hand writing.

I would like to see you gain some confidence in yourself. I think you are still walking around on eggshells, which is probably wearing you out. You need to keep your energy up. so try to put your life in persepective. You DID manage to take care of yourself and your girls for two years!! Pat yourself on the back. It was not awlays fun, but you did it.

You have fought for your M, and you are winning that battle.
You still have good friends, your DD is still dancing. You have a lot to be proud of. Meanwhile, your WH has very little to be proud of. With your help, he can recover his M, his relationship with his girls, and his self pride. But for right now, he is about as low as a man can go. Try to keep your conversations light, try to maintain some fun, some humor around the house. I am not suggesting that you let him off easy, or avoid conflict. Not at all!

But what I am suggesting is something like this:

You hand him a pen and paper, and the SAA book. "here you are sweetheart. I am going to go make desert, let me know when you are done." Later, you go into the room and he is being overly dramatic, head in hands. you say "Well done then! Lets put that aside for now, and have desert. Would you like to watch a movie?"
then, you call the girls into the room and have a nice evening together.
And you move along as if he never did that stupid, overly dramatic head in his hands crap.

Next morning you say something like "All right love, would you like to make any changes to your letter, or shall I send it out as it is?" Again, ignore his drama.

Have confidence in yourself. you have done a great job. Any man would be proud to call you his wife. This man WILL treat you with respect. He WILL love you properly. or he will go away. Do not threaten him. Do not suggest that you will pack his bags. Just act "as if" eerything were good. Act as if he gets it. Act as if he is the man he should be. Don't send a text that says "I will be the W you deserve." Instead, send a text that says "Love you! Hope you are having a great day!!!' Be light. Be cheery. Be loving. Live the life you want to live. And he will either join you in that life, or go away.

Ok, I have lots to digest here!

Concerning the NC letter - WH wrote it, I have it but haven't (as yet) asked him to change anything. Not sure if I should or not now, I still think OW will pick up on the fact that WH didn't put "out of love for my wife" but as F26 said, maybe I should just be glad that WH has written the letter .
It is just awaiting WH's signature and then I shall mail it - I will be happy when this is done and dusted and it's no longer an issue.

LG, thankyou for your advice, some of it was difficult to read!! I take on board what you said about not following up "threats". I didn't mean to threaten WH, I just stated it in a calm fashion but I can see how WH would have perceived it that way. In fact his words were "you are blackmailing me". I did tell WH that it was actually me enforcing a boundary and that he was free to do whatever he pleased.

I am now wondering if he is in fact still actively wayward. I suggested to WH that we swap phones and he was totally against this. Also last night as I was going through WH's phone I remembered the name of one of OW's friends so checked to see if she was listed among WH's contacts. Well, she was, so I said to WH "*** is listed here, I take it it is OW's friend, you won't mind if I delete it will you?". WH answered with "I don't like the fact that you are now going through all my contacts - I haven't spoken to *** for months". Well, if that's true it shouldn't be a problem then so I deleted it anyway.

But this attitude is worrying me. WH claims that I make him feel like a criminal and he doesn't like the fact that he has been "packed in a box" with all the other adulterers out there. Of course, he thinks his situation is different! :RollieEyes:

WoF, I'm finding it difficult to not control WH versus stating my boundaries. I start off saying things in a loving, respectful way but then WH will say something that completely disregards my feelings and I just think "whats the point, why am I putting myself through this?". I'm not good at biting my tongue and walking away and I KNOW this is what I have to do. I need to give myself one of these :twobyfour:!

You are right in that I am walking on eggshells constantly. Although last night I did tell WH that he had hurt my feelings by saying that "OW and you are nothing alike" in a way that obviously meant he still holds her in a higher regard than he does me. I was just reading Lildoggies thread and her WH said almost word for word what my WH says - "OW will not contact me, all she ever did was love and support me, she is a kind person". WTF?!! When will the fog lift? I don't know how long I will be able to do this if WH persists in his attitude that OW is blameless and we would have split up with or without her involvment.

Somebody give me a kick and remind me why I am doing this please as I am on a bit of a downer today

Unfortantly Tarnsy I think that what you hubby is doing is "normal?" for being so recently home, it takes a lot of time.
He is still very foggy and confused.

It took my hubby along time to digest everything and work things out, it took a lot longer then I thought it would take and like your hubby my hubby could never see the FOW as having any faults either, she was just a "very lonely person",, (Guess that's why she had 2 prior affairs w/ married men huh?)

What would happen if after you mailed the NC letter you kinda just dropped the subject, kinda did a combination plan A and 180 degree plan? (but still keep both eyes open) and see how he responds??

Hi F26,

Yes, dropping the subject after mailing the letter is definitely my plan! It can't happen soon enough!

That's probably my problem though, I'm wanting things to happen too quickly. I'm struggling with not having expectations and setting the bar too low - trying to find a happy medium is difficult.

I know it's still VERY early days for the R process but I have been waiting for WH to come home for so long now that I just want to get on with the things we need to do. Unfortunately, WH is not at that point yet. So I guess I just have to do the things that I need to do and hope that WH will come along for the ride until he is ready to actively participate.

I'm just lacking a little motivation today. I'm one of those people who likes to have a little acknowledgement for the things they do and I'm not getting that from WH. But that's one of those expectations that I should try to avoid.

Give it time Tarnsy it will come.

I was very naive when my hubby came home I thought he would come home, we'd pick things up where we left them and never speak of the affair or the seperation again. Yeah well it didn't quite work out that way LOL.

I can remember feeling more lonely with him being back home then I ever did when he was gone. This is going to hard but, I believe it will be worth it.

Even if your hubby doesn't come around you know beyound a shadow of a doubt that you did everything you could to save your marriage. But hey your hubby is already doing better then my did, mine would never send a NC letter!! (He later on told her to stop calling, but that's another story LOL)

I worry that he is still a WH as well. His reaction to you deleteing a contact from his phone is disturbing. I would certaily be watchful of that sort of behavior

You said something earlier that I want to address - something about how you find it hard to just be quiet and walk away. I want to make sure I am not giving you the wrong impressions. You should not avoid conflict. If he says something hurtfull to you, you should not just walk away, stuff your feelings down inside, and pretend it never happened.

I guess what I am trying to say is this:
gain your self confidence back, so that you truly feel like "I would like for him to stay. I would like to recover our M, but if I can't do it, then he can leave. I will be fine"
You need to get to that point, so that you are not feeling emotional, or clingy. I hate for you to put too much meaning into every little thing he says or does. Try not to over-analyze every thing.

If he says something mean, like comparing you to OW, then I would tell him so. Don;t yell, or scream, or pout. Just tell him in a matter-of-fact manner: "H, when you said ___ about OW, it really hurt my feelings. It made me feel as if you were comparing me to her, and you were saying that she was better. My feelings are still very raw right now, and I just would appreciate it if you would be careful to not say such things to me."
and then drop it. Go about your day.

don't avoid the conflict - address it. But address it in a matter of fact,adult manner. And then move onto soemthing else.

Your feelings are importnat. They matter. But address them in a calm way.

I was thinking more anout the NC letter. You say that OW will pick up on the part he left out, about working on his M out of love for his W. I guess my question about that is: So what? what if she does pick up on that? What if she reads the letter and instantly says "Aha! he loves his children but only respects his wife!"
What do you think will happen then?

Thx F26,

It's reassuring to know that my WH is fairly typical. I know that it is said here all the time but you can get so entrenched in what they are doing/saying that you forget that it's the "fog babble" talking - where is Orchid these days anyway?

WoF, I did tell WH last night that he had hurt my feelings when he made his comment about me and OW being "nothing alike" and to give him his due, he did try to hug me later and said "lets not argue". An "I'm sorry" would have been nicer but at least he tried.


I guess what I am worrying about is that this will give her the green light to make C and tell him that if he doesn't love me then he should go back to her. I know it's something that could happen anyway but I don't want to give her any unnecessary temptation!

how did he end up breaking things offf with her?

I was reading back through your thread, and just realized that we do not have that part of the story.
you say that he lived with his brother for ahwile becuase she was still working with him 2 days a week "so it would be impossible for him to move back home right now" But that is jsut bull shi!. YOUR H could not move back home with you, after he dumped the Ho, because she was still working with him 2 days a week! so he tried to hide the fact that he was doing the right thing and returning to his wife?

I feel like I may not be giving out the best advice to you right now - perhaps someone else can jump in here.

On the one hand, I know that he is going through withdrawl and the two of you are still trying to get into a proper recovery. But I think you may be ignoring too many red flags and saying it is just part of the transition into recovery.

He was saying that it was over and she would never try to contact him anyway, so he did not feel the need to write the NC letter - but how did it actaully end? who said the words? What makes him so sure she would not try to contact him?

Is there any reason to believe that she would want to give him the geen light again? After all, I can imagine that their R ended badly. He was broke, stressed about his failing business, and missing his wife and children. I don't think he was much fun for her this past year......

Aloha Tarnsy,

Guess my ears were 'itchin' The search tool on MB hasn't been working for a while so the fact that I caught your reference is well.... kinda amazing.

Seems like your Xws isn't making you feel safe, eh? I recall feeling the same. For me that happened several times. It does get old and eventually I was strong enough to not only expect but require more than just 'having my H back'. When my Xws thought I would settle for his return in the flesh but not in the mind, heart and soul (including his emotional and financial sides along with his spiritual R w/God), then he realized he wasn't going to get the good H status until he did.

That has been a long struggle for him since the WS virus doesn't let go as easy as we would like it to have been.

To help me combat his Xws attitude and keep my family afloat emotionally, I learned to make H responsible for his recovery and mine. I had done and continued to be supportive but it became limited to being supportive for his H side not the Xws side. The line had to be clearly drawn and enforced.

So it meant me doing less and him doing more. I expected him to resist to a degree but did not let him forget his responsibility to make his family feel safe around him. No slack was cut for the Xws but support was readily given to H. Eventually he learned being an Xws was not a good thing. It took a while and really taxed my patience but it is paying off.

So I recommend you don't let him intimidate you. Instead, learn your personal and marital boundaries and implement them. Take his threats and throw it back in his Xws face. If he is a WS, all the more reason to give him back his guilt.

Remember reverse babble? Practice it and use it. You don't need to be walking on eggs. You and your family needs to be able to feel comfortable in your home. It belongs to your family and no one has the right to make you feel unsafe.

Hope this helps.

Take care,
Orchid

I don't know all the details, all I can tell you is what WH told me and who knows how much of that is true. WH wanted to break things off back in March but OW's mother was on her death bed so he felt that he couldn't end it at that time. OW's mother died in April (I think) and - yet again - WH couldn't bring himself to end the R. OW had yet another family bereavement weeks later. Just to add that WH didn't not go to any of the funerals with OW.

At the beginning of July, I had tickets to take DD's to a "Britains Got Talent" show in London and WH offered to drive us there to save on train fares. We had a great family day out and WH admitted that he had not told OW that I would be going, she thought it would be just WH and DD's. WH had the mickey taken out of him by DD14 and myself about not telling his girlfriend that he was out with his wife - all in good fun.

Anyway, WH fessed up the next day. OW asked WH "how do you think that makes me feel?" - ha! about time the tables were turned!!

A few days later WH had to fly to Ireland, during one of our convo's he told me that "everything was in place". I think basically what he did was to make OW question his commitment and going away gave her time to think about that.

WH told me that he had basically got to the point where he knew that he could never give her the commitment that she wanted - marriage, kids the whole caboodle - as he felt that he would never be able to break away from me completely. WH also said that he never loved her the way he had me and that he knew that at some point she would ask him to give DD's an ultimatum (as DD's only met her once and had no interest in repeating that) and he felt that he had done more than enough harm to DD's already.

Basically WH manipulated the sitch so that OW was forced to ask WH if he would be willing to give her what she wanted to which WH stated that he couldn't/wouldn't. So according to WH the A ended mutually. Probably not the best way for the A to end but you can't have everything can you?


To clear this up - it was me that told WH that he couldn't come home while OW was still working for him. I knew that I wouldn't be able to live with him while he was still having C with her. This was my boundary. Whether OW knew that he was coming home, I don't know but I'm guessing that she would have sussed that out for herself.


Apparently, she told WH that she "doesn't go back". And that if WH finds himself unhappy again in 6mths time not to bother going back to her as that door will be closed. Also she told WH that she will be going to Dubai in Sept/Oct to see about settling over there. Not far enough away if you ask me lol!

When WH told me that I told him to tell her to be careful over there as "don't they stone women to death for sleeping with M men over there?!"

I too am unsure if I am giving WH the benefit of the doubt too much. I am checking that NC is in place but what he does at work is out of my hands. And that is where my fear lies. WH started his EA at work, carried it on during working hours, it was only once I got the ILYBNILWY speech 2 weeks before he left that he did any of the sneaking around stuff that you read about here so often. And that is another reason as to why WH doesn't think that he fits into the mould of a typical WH :RollieEyes:.

Hello Orchid,

It's good to see you back. I hope that life has been treating you well.


Yeah, this is it exactly.


How do I make WH responsible for his own R? Maybe I'm being dumb but I have no clue how to do this. And then I wonder if it's still too early to expect WH to do this, it's not yet a month since WH returned. What should I be expecting (apart from NC) WH to do at this point - if anything at all?

WH is skeptical to say the least about the MB principles. Initially he started to read SAA but has not looked at it for a couple of weeks. We have done his part of the EN Q but not mine, he knows my no1 need is Af but that is it and TBH I'm not seeing alot of that even though when he does try I do make sure that I let him know that it is appreciated. And WH does not agree with me posting here. I think he see's that it has helped me but he also thinks that it is just psycho-babble and that every sitch is different so how can a "one-size fits all" plan help. I think a lot of it is WH's dislike of being told what to do - especially when it's me doing the telling - and the fact that he still hasn't got to the point where he realises that he made a HUGE mistake and he needs to do something to try to rectify things.

I'm worried that my LB is gonna be empty before WH steps up to the plate.

Tarnsy