I guess this would be a good place to add a link to my previous thread but I have no idea how to do it lol! If anyone could tell me it would be much appreciated.

A brief outline: WH left home 13mths ago after the "I haven't loved you for years" speech. Found out a few weeks later there was an OW. 6 mths later WH ends A and says he wants to come home, this lasted about 10 days! Found MB at this point and was overjoyed to find a plan that could help to restore my marriage. WH moved in with OW a couple of weeks later. Continued to plan a and to improve myself which resulted in WH fence sitting, flirting with me, constant txt, e-mail and IM messages, paying me compliments and often crying on my shoulder (something he doesn't normally do).

After being told by several wonderful posters here that it was time for Plan B, I finally was at the point were my "head and heart were in sync" and gave him the letter Christmas Eve. Although being the nice person that I am, I did tell him not to open it for a couple of days as I didn't want to ruin his Christmas!

So, I'm guessing he read it yesterday and so far so good! Early days I know but contact has been avoided! WH visited my page on a community website yesterday but left no message and has phoned twice today, once while I was out and again later which DD14 answered. WH confirmed that he has read the letter, that it upset him but he knows why I have gone down this road.

I'm expecting things to get more difficult before they get better, I'm sure that I will miss him (or at least the H he used to be) and I'm sure that at some point he will probably get angry at me, but for now I am feeling positive and hope that those who have advised me in the past will carry on and that some plan B experts will chime in.

Tarnsy

Good. Do you have a plan to avoid contact with your husband? Did the letter let him know of your desire to work on the marriage once the affair was over and he had written a no contact letter? Have you set up a plan for him to see the kids?

First couple weeks are usually the roughest, of course! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hi K, thx for responding.

I think the answer is yes to all of the above. WH has been asked to stay in the car for picking up and dropping off DD's and to direct any communication to my intermediary. My letter made it very clear that I want us to have an improved marriage once he has no contact with the OW and I sent him a schedule for seeing DD's some time ago.

Hopefully everything is in place but I'm sure there will be unforeseen circumstances that will crop up which will have to be dealt with as they occur.

It is WH's weekend to see DD's tomorrow so we shall see how well he has heeded my words then!

Sounds like you're pretty well-prepared.

My Plan B wasn't so well-prepared. I was living in an apartment, and would visit the kids at 'our' house. My wife had made a nice dinner and was apparently looking forward to the visit---up to the point where I asked her politely but firmly to "leave". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

It took me some time to get the routine ironed out! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Thx K but it turns out I wasn't as prepared as I thought!

WH called before pick-up and DD14 spoke to him. She asked if he could come in the house to see her and her sisters xmas presents. I felt that I couldn't deny them this so agreed and said I'd go to another room. So when WH arrived I sat in the dining room. I managed to avoid any interaction apart from hearing WH call out hello and goodbye.

Received a TM from WH whilst they were out, just a pic of DD's eating out and then another TM to say that he was bringing them home early as there was nothing else DD's wanted to do.

DD's arrived home but they had left the books WH had bought them in the car so he had to bring them to the door. DD14 collected them and both DD's said goodbye to WH. We were in the front room of our home when DD14 noticed that WH was standing by his car. I looked over as he got in the car and could see him crying. At this, DD's both ran out to see him. At this point I too broke into tears. DD's came back in as WH drove off and then DD14 cried too.

I knew this was going to be hard but to see it having such an affect on the people I love is hard to bear. I hope that the pain will be worth it.

Tomorrow is another day, another day for WH to see DD's so I shall make more of an effort to avoid windows!

Tarnsy,

Great job on the plan B!

You were prepared well and even though it was sad, the tears were a good thing. It helps cleanse the soul. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Now the hard part w/b to stay strong and NOT contact him from your side.

Reassure your children of your love. Let them know seeing their dad cry means, they are seeing their dad. They also need to know the difference between their real dad and the WS. Together with your children, you both can be each other's support. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

Hello Tarnsy,

I'm just about to follow in your footsteps......

I'll try to take some strength from you, if you don't mind......I'm scared S++++less!

Good luck to you, and Happier New Year!

Ron

Hi Tarnsy,

Good execution of your Plan. Stick to it. I had a couple of badly executed Plan B's and it really hurt me, so do it the right way.

We're here to support you through the New Year!!

Hi Tarnsy,

I think you did pretty darn good for yourself too! The first few weeks of Plan B is very difficult for everyone (WS, BS, kids). And I was told that no matter how well-prepared for Plan B you think you are---you're not. You handled yourself great.

As Orchid has mentioned, keep out of contact. Away from windows is good too. It's hard, but it is the recommended prescription to give you the maximum time you need to hang on while the affair comes to an end. Praying for you that his happens sooner, rather than later...

Tarnsy

Just posting to thell you I'll certainly lend support to you in Plan B. I've been in a dark Plan B since mid-July and (so far) have not broken it although WH tried his best to get me to communicate with him for about 10 weeks. Of course, it's a little easier for me because we don't have children.

Trust me, as one who is there in the middle of Plan B, you'll do fine. Just focus on staying dark and taking care of yourself and your kids.

Smartie

Wow! thx for all the kind words and offers of support, I'm sure that I'll need it! I shall also pop into others threads to lend my support, I don't feel knowledgeable enough to offer advice!

Pick up and drop off went well, altho WH is still getting out of the car and coming to the door so I guess I will have to ask intemediary to contact him about this as he again took the opportunity to call out "goodbye Tarnsy".

Smartie, I'm wondering how you feel now that your WH is no longer trying to contact you? Do you feel that plan B is having the desired effect, do you feel at peace with the sitch?

I ask because I hope that Plan B works sooner rather than later (as all us BS's do I guess) and I wonder how I'd feel if WH wasn't attempting contact altho I know this is the whole point of plan B. My WH has been in constant contact for months now, several times a day so it's going to be something I'm going to miss alot.

Tarnsy

Thanks for stopping by my thread. Hang in there. I wanted mine to work sooner rather than later too, but that is not the case. My case is like Smarties - no small kids involved. Our Dd is 25, so at this point WH has not even attempted to contact me. If you read my thread, you'll know that he is mad because of our house sale and wants nothing to do with me.

Plan B will allow you to focus on you though. That's what I found. I'm doing things for me, and learning that I can survive with or without him. You can do that too.

I think that you have a very good chance of recovering. Sounds like your Plan A was great. Give it a little time and STAY DARK!

To tell the truth I had mixed emotions about his contact. He waited until a month after he moved out and I began Plan B to start trying to get me to communicate with him. At first I was angry because I told him specifically in my PBL that I wanted no contact with him until his affair was over. Furthermore, the letter was simply a request to see our two dogs! So I felt disrespected. But I was also relieved to know that at least he was still thinking of me, that maybe OW had not completely replaced me in his mind and heart.

But when I let my intermediary read the other letters (it's my SIL -- my in-laws have been wonderful throughout this whole mess) and she told me they were just more requests to see the dogs and him having a pity party for himself, I moved to just being annoyed. And the letters did not matter any more because they meant nothing--just him continuing to want to cake eat and get a family fix from me while he shacked up with OW.

The last letter he wrote me was on our annivarsary (11/7). According to SIL, same stuff as before, hoping to see the dogs. I have not heard from him since, but I no longer worry that he is not thinking of me -- I know he still thinks of me. We were together for 20 years for pete's sake! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> And now I feel the A is moving into a new phase because he is realizing that he may really have to depend on OW to meet all his needs. And he knows (and I know) that she can't do that.

In the meantime, each day I find myself thinking of him less, getting a clearer vision of a life without him (and it is a GOOD vision BTW), being ready to move on without him when the D is final next year.

I think I only made two mistakes with my Plan B and I'll share them with you for what it's worth. 1) my lovebank was really empty by the time I went into Plan B. I'm not sure there is enough left there for me to want to reconcile if/when my WH's affair finally ends. I really just want the divorce to be final ASAP next summer. 2) I did not get a LSA signed by him before going into Plan B. Our attorneys are working through that now, but WH refuses to sign and will give no reason as to what the hang up is. So although I can take of myself financially and the debts are not an issue, the issue of if I get the house (he and OW cannot afford it) or if I will be forced to sell it is still unresolved. It makes me uneasy to have that issue open. So think about those things...

Other than that, I do feel more and more at peace each day.You will too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Smartie

Thx Chai and Smartie,

I am doing my best to stay dark, I have not contacted him but today and yesterday he sent links to my IM altho he didn't send any message. I don't know what the links were for as they both came up as site not found.

DD14 phoned WH this evening to find out what time he intends to pick them up tomorrow to discover that WH has gone to London to spend NY eve with his sister without the ho! She is apparently not at the house they share either!

I'm trying hard not to get my hopes up that there is trouble in paradise but it does seem rather odd that they are not spending NY eve together.

I shall keep myself occupied with DD's for the rest of the evening, there is less than 3 hours til 2008 and boy will I be glad to see the back of 2007. The chocolate fountain is ready to go and games are waiting to be played so I'll sign off for now.

Thx to all again and hope everyone has a better 2008 than 2007.

Tarnsy

Hi Tarnsy,, I am so very proud of you!!! I don't have any advice, I just want you to know that I was thinking of you and your girls, and I pray that 2008 will be an awesome year for you. I feel that you are doing the right thing, stay strong.

I do like the fact that your hubby and the OW aren't together for New Years, I really hope he comes to his senses. Happy New Year!!!!!

F-26

Thx F-26

The mystery of why WH and OW didn't spend NY eve together is still just that! WH picked up DD's this evening and all WH told them was that she is at her mothers some 200 miles away. This is the woman who apparently only had 2 weeks to live back in Feb 06! So OW could just be seeing her sick mother or there could be more to it. And that's the last time I'm going to ponder it!

But you have to love my DD14! Whilst at OW and WH house of ill repute she found an old pic of me and WH on an old profile page and saved it onto his laptop as "I love tarnsy". With a little luck he won't notice it but OW will!

I have been busy reading mimi's thread off and on today and the similarities between her WH and mine with regards to cake eating are quite astonishing. I can only hope for a similar outcome.

The next few days should be easy with regards to staying dark. WH has no need to be in contact for the rest of the week and arrangements have been made for the weekend. WH is having DD's an extra weekend because of plans that had to be cancelled over the holiday period.

All I have to do is resist any urges which I have managed to do so far and to ask my intermediary to contact WH with regards to staying in the car when picking up and dropping off DD's. I am also in the process of setting up an online calendar so that all the girls activities and arrangements can be referred to without any need for contact.

Keep the support coming please, I am in unknown waters!

tarnsy

Hi Tarnsy,

You are doing good. Let's hope that there is trouble in affairland. Sounds like it. Stick to your Plan B and I'm sure that you will do well.

Hang in there....

Happy New Year Tarnsy....You sound like you have lots of inner strength! I'm impressed, and I'll definitely be looking to you for some of it!

Me, when I go to plan B, will probably not have to worry so much about the WS trying to contact me. I suspect she'll probably think it's a good thing.

Keep it up!

Ron

Thx Chai and Ron,

If you think you can take any strength from me Ron then you are welcome, I think it's just that I have had nearly 14mths of being separated from WH so I've had plenty of time to get used to the idea!

Well, I could do with some advise. Received an email from WH today mostly with reference to the fact that he is not going to be able to meet all our household bills this month and saying that he doesn't want to discuss financial matters with my intermediary. The only agreement we have in place at the mo is that until I have other employment (I just teach dance a couple of times a week) then he is still going to pay the bills. WH also added this:


"I would also like to add on this matter of none talking. I can understand to a point where you are coming from, but I can’t see how it will be constructive, either long or short term.

I was going to write a big blog on the matter but as you not talking to me I cant see the point to be honest.



I would like to at least be able to talk to you on the above matters if you are up to it.



Please reply even if its one word answers.



Here’s hoping.



D x"


Do I ignore this? Ask my intermediary to reply? Should I just direct him back to my PBL? Please help, this is the first time he has tried to contact me.

tarnsy

Hi Tarnsy,

A belated Happy New Year. I have been out of town and not on line over the past week and missed this thread yesterday.

I don't really have any plan B advice since I never had to do one, but hopefully some of the real experts here will stop by shortly.

Since I have followed your situation for some time now, I do believe that you have continued to meet many of your WH's EN's for the duration of the time he has lived with OW.

Now that you are in plan B, those needs are going unmet, so of course he is sad about that. The truth is, he knows what he needs to do to fix things, you told him in your plan B letter. So the ball is in his court, end the affair and he can have you back in his life.

If he needs to discuss financial matters and your intermediary does not feel comfortable with that, then can this be discussed with your lawyer?

My instinct here is that after a exceptionally well executed plan A, you should definately follow thru with a completely dark plan B.

I'm here cheering from the sidelines.

Who

Hi Tarnsy,,
Has he had any problems meeting the monthy bills before?
Do you think that he may be using this as an excuse to talk to you? I don't know, if this is the first time he has come up short with money then my gut says he's just using it to break the NC..UMM I don't know what does your gut say??

Good luck
F-26

Hi Tarnsy,

You wrote: 'Received an email from WH today mostly with reference to the fact that he is not going to be able to meet all our household bills this month and saying that he doesn't want to discuss financial matters with my intermediary.'

Sounds to me like he's not enjoying your darkness and is finding some way to fight back and circumvent it, just like my WW did/does.

I haven't read all your threads, Is he legally obliged to meet those bills? If so, I would simply ask your lawyer to send him a letter reminding him of his obligations and reiterating your desire to have no further communication with him. Get the lawyer to refer all matters other than childcare arrangements to her and repeat that child care is something he should communicate with your intermediary about.

That should sort it out provided he is legally obliged to foot the bills. If you haven't already consulted a lawyer, it's high time you did.

I think it is very important that you do not respond directly to this email - that's what darkness is all about.

Can somebody please reassure me that I am doing the right thing?

There were several attempts over the weekend by WH to break my plan B. He had a small degree of success when he called and left a vm saying that DD8 wanted to speak to me. Thinking that she may be having a minor meltdown (quite common!) I called back. Of course WH answered but I just asked to speak to DD. Of course she was fine and when I asked her why she wanted to speak to me she said "Dad asked me if I wanted to to". So I had been set up!

Monday WH left 2 vm's, one saying that he wouldn't be able to take DD8 to Girls Brigade as he was out of the area and wouldn't be back in time and another sounding very upset and asking me to call him. Unfortunately I couldn't get hold of my intermediary as she was at work (in a hospital) so I sent WH a tm saying not to worry about GB and if he wants to talk about anything else to communicate via my intermediary.

WH tm'd be back saying "this is so childish, I don't want to speak to intermediary, I want to speak to you X". I didn't reply and I knew that when he got back to his office he would see an email from my intermediary asking him to refer to my PBL and to not contact me.

Today, WH left 2 more vm's. First to offer DD14 a lift to school (she normally has to ask!) and secondly to say he would be coming to pick up his mail. Two minutes later he arrived just as my dad came to the door so I just handed him his mail and he went on his way.

Sorry, this is getting so long but I'm at the part that has weakened my resolve now! DD's went out for dinner with WH tonight as usual and the convo turned to the previous days message. WH told DD14 that he had been really upset and I was the only person he wanted to talk to. Whatever it was that upset him he didn't want to talk to his family about it who were always his first port of call if he was upset in the past and a bone of contention between us.

So now I feel that I have let WH down by not being there for him which I know is mad as he certainly wasn't there for me this time last year! And to top it off, DD14 thinks that I should have returned WH's calls and that not doing so isn't going to help bring her dad home.

If anyone can tell me that this is typical of a WH trying to break plan B and that the guilt is a direct result of this it would be much appreciated!

Thanks

Tarnsy

Tarnsey,

I spent a little time and read through some of your thread.

Your WH was a blatant, if not viciously cruel cake eater. Flirting with and kissing you and then going to his love shack with the OW? How can waywards be this sick?

Your Plan B is only 10 days old now and he is already having a little wayward snit fit. "Mean, mean Tarnsey won’t play anymore."

That’s all this is. Do not waffle on your Plan B. That’s what he wants. Go darker. He is starving for his Tarnsey cake. Let him starve!

Let only the OW be the one to have to meet ALL his EN’s. She can’t do it. That’s why he was such a pig of a cake eater.

If you do anything, resend your Plan B letter with no additional explanation and go darker.

Your plan B is doing exactly what it was supposed to do – he is freaking out because he can’t talk to you whenever he wants. He “only wants to talk to you”. Well tough $hit.(sorry to be so blunt)
The point is – he has been stringing you along for months now. Coming and going as he pleases. Making you worry, and wait, and wonder. Your plan B has said “enough. I am not your friend to pour your tea, and listen to your troubles. I am your WIFE. When you are ready to treat me with respect, commit to our M, and dump OW, then call. Until then, please let me hold onto my last little bit of self respect”

Please explain to your DD that you still love Dad, and want to stay M, but while he is still with OW it is simply too painful for you to talk to him.

Tarnsey,
Definately listen to the previous posters.

You must absolutely stick to your plan B. What you are seeing is your WH battling with the choices he has made and he isn't liking it one single bit! I'm sorry but this is the point that I start laughing, because to me its joyful when a WS starts having temper tantrums. It means their conflicted and having to deal with their baggage instead of dumping it on the BS.

He lost his right to speak with you. He must EARN the priviledge of having you in his life again.

EXACTLY!

Tarnsy I agree with the others, now is the most critical time to stand strong,,he doesn't like that his safety net has been rolled up. He needs to see what life is with out you.

You are doing great!!!! stay strong ok, it'll get worse before it gets better...He will play all the guilt trips he can. I know how baddly you feel for him when he hurts but he has to hurt to realise what he is doing.

Like a alcohoic, or drug addit sometimes they have to hit rock bottom before they make the changes in their life. That's what he needs to do.

PS Tarnsy we always want to "save" them, you can't, he has to do this himself.

your doing good F-26

Hi everyone,

Thx for the words of encouragement and advice. I will endeavour to say as dark as possible despite WH knowing how to push my buttons!

I will say more on the matter tomorrow as I need to spend a little time with DD14 tonight, she's not feeling well as she has the flu.

WH did better today, only received a tm this morning asking if DD wanted a lift to school again. DD14 called him whilst I was out and WH asked her to ask me to get some bank statements together for him (apparently for auditors) and I'm just wondering if I should do this for him. I don't mind doing it it but is it ok when in plan B?

Am also thinking if it would be a good idea to ask him to collect his belongings. He has never taken any of his stuff despite me asking him several times, the last time was xmas eve and he said "can't I just leave it here?" What the he77!

Thx again, am feeling stronger today, partly because I have spent some time today organising a night out for my birthday with some of my good friends and partly because of all the advice and support I'm getting here.

Tarnsy

Then learn how to move around and hide your buttons.

Hi Tarnsy... you sound a bit better tonight!

I'm not sure about the paperwork he wants, nor the belongings. I'm not sure if it's better for him to have a foot in the door, so to speak, or if tossing all his stuff on to sidewalk would make a better statement!

I may be wrong, but I would tell your DD14 why you are doing what you are doing.....I would bet that your husband is telling her all kinds of things that aren't favourable to you. Give her the truth, from you. It will take a lot of anxiety off her shoulders.


Be good,

Ron

Good job Tarnsy,, Stay strong, I was so happy to read that you are going out with friends for your Bday, that's great..

In my opinion I would gather the papers he asked for and either hand to your intermidary to give him, or do it in a matter where you are not directly handing to him,,(make copies for your records also)

As far as getting his stuff out, again just my opinion, I would give it alittle more time. You need to be dark yes, but, I don't think that you want to come accross as if it's over and done. Unless you think that he may need that reality check to make him realise you're dead serious. You know him the best, and you know how you feel... But your doing so good!!!:)

Hello all,

I’ll go back to some of the previous posts and answer some of the points made.

F-26, yes WH has had problems meeting the bills before, finances have been a problem throughout our M life but especially so since the A. I don’t think this is an excuse to keep in contact. What annoys me is that the weekend after xmas he took DD’s out and bought them a new DS game, some books and took them out to eat so he has money to spare but not to pay the bills.

Principled, although I have consulted a solicitor, WH is not legally accountable for the household bills, it is a verbal agreement between the two of us. Perhaps the time has come to reconsider this.

Chrisner, WH excelled at being a cake eater! He himself admits that he has been sitting on the fence. One of my biggest fears is that he sees plan B as a way to manipulate him into coming home and he will buck against it.

WOF5, good to hear from you again, I hope you had a good xmas and NY. I have explained to DD14 about plan B and how I still love WH and am just trying to protect myself. Altho she seemed to take it in at the time now that she is seeing how it affects WH she is less convinced.

Mojodiva, I love the idea of WH having to earn the privilege of having me in his life! I will try to adopt this attitude from now on.

Faithful, I agree that he has to hit rock bottom but I wonder if he ever will. He has an alcoholic brother who lost his job and his home to drink. It took many years and a dangerous driving conviction that even appeared in the national papers before he quit drinking. Despite all this WH’s family continued to bail him out of trouble financially and IMHO this is why he took so long to see the consequences of his actions and I fear there will be a similar response to WH. So far, his family have welcomed OW with open arms and from what I can gather, tell WH to do whatever makes him happy.

Ron, thx, I am feeling stronger today, WH hasn’t attempted any contact!! I am still unsure what to do about his belongings. Yes, throwing it out would make a statement but I wonder if WH would then use it against me saying things like “well, I would have come home but your mum chucked all my things out” or “you made your feelings clear when you got rid of my stuff”. I feel I would be handing him an excuse to make it all my fault.

Thx for all your support

Tarnsy

Wow tarnsy,

Your WH sounds a lot like Mr. Gray in some areas...like the finances and he always has his brother enabling him.

I have the same problem as you with the belongings. When he came over to get what he was allowed in the agreement he had a huge moving truck.

He took the giant TV and a few other items, and I let him take some extra DVD's he wanted and some books. He left nearly everthing else and was also going to leave his dresser until I told him to take it if he thought he'd need it.

So not much of a peep from him since the PBL except for messing with the bank account a bit in December. He DID do something he really didn't have to do that helped me out and really didn't affect him.

I had to contact my intermediary about it and he answered her.

I am leaving all of the things as is unless they are in my way. Then I'll pack it up and put it in the spare room. I already packed a ton of mementos and put them in there. It really does help to do that.

If he starts getting insistent about any of the rest of this stuff then I'm going through the intermediary to arrange a place he can pick it up or some good arrangement.

I've been keeping up with your thread and others but I don't post much. I can't remember if I posted to you before or not!

You seem to be doing well in your Plan B. I'm going to be a month into mine on Saturday and I've started to feel a lot better over the last few days.

I like that line too, the one about WH's EARNING the privilege to be back in our lives. Dang straight!

Take care, Tarnsy!

Charlotte

Tarnsy,

I am here on the side lines cheering you on. I have read so many accounts of successful plan Bs here that I can only think that this will work for you.

After all, in most situations, plan A is not enough to bring an end to the affair and bring the WS home.

You did an excellent plan A, but honestly, I don't think that your WH will be one of those that doesn't need to hit rock bottom, if plan A didn't bring him back in a year, I don't think it will happen without a really dark plan B.

You will probably have to remind your DD 14 why you are doing it and maybe try and talk to her "woman to woman" and explain how terrible it is for you to have your WH around so much flirting and teasing only to have him go back to OW and sleep in her bed.

At 14, she might have some understanding of how that must feel.

Hang in there ... rah, rah, rah!

Who

I'm just wondering if anyone thinks it would be a good idea to send WH Truehearts letter at this moment in time?

Obviously I will do it through my intermediary or would it be counter productive to plan B?

WH sent me this message prior to my giving him my pbl which was obviously another attempt at keeping me waiting but also makes me think that he may be coming out of the fog.

"There are not enough words to explain to you my actions over the last year. I feel I would like to tell you all but am afraid to.
I have trouble sleeping as you are in my mind a lot of the time, mostly good reasons a few not so good.
I just hope you can bare with the situation a little longer until I am man enough to explain to you how I feel.

You know I made two wishers when I saw A star the other week, i have not told you what i have wished for as I am afraid you might take it the wrong way. It would make sence to you once I explain.

I will tell you but only when the time is right, believe me it will sound better then.

xx"

What do you think?

Tarnsy

It looks like pretty deep fog, psycho poetic attempting wayward babble to me. I would not spend much time trying to figure it out.


Probably not. It just breaks your Plan B and waywards do not like to be “taught” or “educated”. They see it as controlling and gives them more to talk to with their adultery partner about how wise and grown up they are.

Just stay dark.

Hi Tarnsy,

I am sure that you were not unclear in your Plan B letter what he would need to do to come home, like end the A and institute NC for life.

You have busted your behind doing a great plan A, now that you are in Plan B, well, the ball is in his court. I don't think that you should settle for anything less than exactly what you want.

Honestly, even after the affair ends, he comes home, and NC is established, it is so hard.

Even after all this time, I occasionally have dreams set during the affair and I end up waking up sad and angry. I think that represents that I still have some deep seated resentment to work thru.

Set the bar high. Let him stop talking and take the first step required for reconcilliation. Talk is cheap and he has been saying alot for a long time. Now he needs to show some action. Is it possible that he is in some way afraid of OW? I know that my FWH was terrified of OW and what she would do when he ended the A.

Good Luck,

Who

Tarnsy,

I need to add something else here. I am afraid that if you were to allow him to break your plan B at this point after such a long plan A, without compling with your requirements, that you could get really burned badly.

I don't think that your love for him will survive much more fence sitting. Remember why you are doing a plan B and please, please, stick to it.

Best,

Who

Thx Who and Chrisner,

I guess that I already knew that sending WH Truehearts letter would be futile, I think it’s just that I want to give him the benefit of the doubt in all of this but I should know better by now! If I let him he would probably continue his cake eating ways forever and I’m no longer willing to put up with crumbs!

Had a pretty good w/end. I started helping in a new dance class in a nearby town and we were worried that maybe no-one would turn up but our fears were unfounded as over 60 people arrived to begin learning ballroom and Latin-American dancing! It was great, we taught 4 classes, children and adults and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I can’t believe that I’m getting paid for doing something that I enjoy so much. It has done wonders for my self esteem.

I didn’t get home til 10.30 and WH had been and put some pictures that DD14 had wanted printed through the door. He must have wondered where we all were but it’s none of his business anymore.

Saturday I helped out at the dance class that DD8 attends and she got her first exam results – 95 out of 100 – so she was thrilled. WH called in the evening to speak to DD’s, something he has only done about a dozen times in the last year. According to DD14 he just called to chat and even she noted that this was unusual.

Sunday the girls and I had a mini home spa day. I gave them both pedicures and painted their toenails, funnily enough neither of them wanted to do mine so I had to do it myself! I’m going to try to keep this up with mini manicures, facials and hair and makeup, especially while the weather is so bad as we all need to feel pampered now and again, plus it gets us all in the same room at the same time with no games consoles or pc’s to distract us.

My intermediary received an email from WH asking to change a day that he sees the girls and to say that he is at a loss as to how my “new attitude is going to help either party” (check the legal speak lol). I asked K (my intermediary) to reply that the change is ok and to refer back to my pbl as to my reasons for not wanting direct contact with him. I also asked her to add that I am just getting on with my life instead of waiting for him to get off the fence. So, WH is not too pleased with how I am doing things, well tough! I haven’t been pleased with how he has been doing things for a long time now so now he can see what it’s like! Honestly, does he think I’m going to rollover and say “oh sorry for hurting your feelings, why don’t we be friends”. Well, it ain’t gonna happen! I’m liking plan B and I’m not going to be his friend. I’ll be his wife in every sense of the word but no way will I just be his friend.

Because K didn’t send me the details of WH’s email till yesterday he sent her another saying that if he hadn’t heard back by Monday evening he would get in contact with me directly! Well, he can try but I’m staying dark!

Tarnsy

Hi Charlotte,

Thx for popping in. I have read some of your thread but there is so much!!

Having WH stuff around is weird. I packed a load of his things away ages ago but WH has never bothered to collect it so it is just cluttering up my bedroom. I have no spare room anywhere to put his things so his wardrobe is still full, his book collection is still here, his cd's, dvd's, his star trek memorabilia, his photos from his army days, everything basically. The only thing he has ever asked for is his Magic cards!

If he decides he wants anything I will box it all up and ask someone else to be here when he collects it.

I shall look in on you to see how things are going for you. Speaking for myself, I think plan B is going to help ME a lot!

Tarnsy

Tarnsy,
Hi there, another SB here.
You know what I did with my WH's stuff? I packed it up and delivered it to the doorstep of the OW' house. LOL! It was awesome.

He had several weeks to collect it at first, but when he didn't, my girlfriend and I first put out his futon, chair, and lamps. Next day was boxes of clothes, knicknacks, photo albums and dvd's,cds. The OW was so po's she called a police friend of hers to call me...he was stupified, b/c I hadn't broken any laws, but was "trying" to help her. It was hilarious. He was stuttering. She owns a condo, so unless the association did something to me, it was THEIR property not hers...and they aren't located on premises, so....nah, nah to them. Harlot.

Good luck to you. I haven't read all your thread, but I'll get to it. Seems like we are around the same age and are both in Plan B so that is comforting cuz we can be supportive.

Have you checked out Mimi's GODDESS thread?

I can completely sympathize with your wanting to add this bit. My advice is that you refrain from these kinds of add-ons, and try and prevent your intermediary from doing the same thing.

Total darkness is better and will likely be more effective.

You may have had a sub-motive of thinking your Plan B is going to "get" him to do something. You must have realized that you can't control him and what he does, right? A better way of thinking about Plan B is that you are attempting to preserve your willingness to reconcile. It will take you longer to reach the peace of Plan B if you think about your plan B is going to make him change.

Regarding his stuff, how much is it really bothering you? If it makes you angry, can you put it somewhere out of the way where you won't see it? If you try to make him take it or send it to him or the like, that will lead to drama and interaction with your WH, and that won't help your love bank any. It would be an invitation for your WH to break your Plan B.

Every interaction with your WH has the potential to trigger an emotional response from you, which will ultimately drain your love bank.

I've only skimmed your story, but it sounds like you're doing pretty well in Plan B so far. Keep up the good work and Stay Dark!

Hi Tarnsy,

As tempting as FreeToBeMe1970's suggestion is - believe me I would like to do it. There are serious legal ramifications to that kind of action in the UK. Consult before taking it and anything similar.

All the best,

P

Hi all,

Free, Thx for the advice re WH belongings. I would love to do that but I don’t need the agro that would surely come with it. And I have no desire to see OW or to give her any kind of satisfaction that she has “got to me”. As far as I’m concerned she doesn’t appear on my radar! It does seem we are at similar points in all of this and I’m sure we could be a lot of help to each other. I have read your thread and will pop over to see how you are.

SD I totally get what you are saying. It’s hard not to add a little bit in here and there but I will try harder to just stay dark, but with WH still putting in his pennies worth its difficult not to say something in way of explanation (see below for more!). WH’s stuff doesn’t bother me, it’s not a trigger, it just takes up space that I don’t have! I have seen the thread on why don’t W’s take their stuff and my take on it is that they just think they will get round to it but once any doubt starts to creep in that they may have made a mistake, it’s a kind of insurance that they can then say “well, I left everything here so I must have known deep down that I would be back”. It would help to ease their guilty conscience perhaps?

Thx for the advice Principled, are you in the UK?


Need a bit of advice on how to handle WH saying things to DD14 and her then repeating them to me. WH had DD’s yesterday evening and during the course of the evening told DD14 that my prediction (from before I discovered MB!) that he would end up a single man living in a bed-sit is probably going to come to true. Apparently OW wants to be there whenever WH has DD’s (doesn’t she have him to herself enough already!) and this is causing arguments between them.

As anyone who has read my previous thread knows I managed to keep OW away from DD’s for over a year. They spent a few hours in her company for the first time on xmas eve and currently have no wish to repeat the experience. Anyway, WH told DD14 that if they split up he won’t be coming home because my not talking to him is reverse psychology and it won’t work on him. I can understand that Plan B could look like that to WH but he is conveniently forgetting that he has been trying to keep me hanging on, waiting on the sidelines for when/if he finally comes to his senses and as stated in my PBL I need to take myself out of this situation for my own sanity.

So, do I talk to DD14 and ask her not to repeat anything that WH says to her (which doesn’t seem healthy to me, I don’t want her to think she can’t talk to me) or do I get my intermediary to ask WH not to discuss such things with DD14? And this is the guy who told me that I shouldn’t have told DD’s about OW, I’m not allowed to tell them the truth but he’s allowed to come up with reasons as to why I am doing this? Waywards!?!

WH also called this morning and left a vm telling me (not asking) that he would be round later to pick up his mail as he is waiting for something rather urgently. If it was so urgent why didn’t he have it sent to OW’s house or his office? I tm’d intermediary to ask her to tm WH to say that mail doesn’t arrive till late and I will send it with DD’s this evening. Apparently this isn’t good enough for WH, so I will tm intermediary should any mail arrive and she will tm WH who will send one of his employees to pick it up. Wonder what could be so important it can’t wait a few hours? But I guess I shouldn’t wonder what he is up to!lol

Tarnsy

Tarnsy,

Sorry to hear the WS has now resorted to using his children as his WS weapon. It's not working is it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Still they are your children also and to tell them NOT to tell you is bad for them.

So here's an idea. Ask if they w/b willing to e-mail his convo to you or TXT msg it. Whatever communication method is interesting to them. Use it. Otherwise as their mother you should let them talk to you. It is important you be a part of their support group as much as they need t/b a part of yours.

As for him ending up alone with just a bed.....you can certainly wonder out loud how come that OW can't give him $$. LOL!!! I did. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Yea.... long story.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

JMHO,
L.

Tarnsy wrote: 'Thx for the advice Principled, are you in the UK?'

You're welcome. Yes I am.

Good morning!

I agree with Orchid on your DD. She is going through a hard time, too and needs you to talk to.
Just say mm-hmm, nod your head, yes dear, I'm sorry, etc.

I have a DD16 and she witnessed too much hurtful words and had a lot to say about it. Of course, my WH was her stepdad, not her bio father, which made her allegiance to me stronger.

Anyway, the stuff he says is total fog babble. There are some good threads on here about that. LaLa has a fogapalooza link.
Of course he is going to say anything that is selfish and hurtful. One of the revere babble suggestions is to say something in agreement with what the WS says.
I.E.
WS: I just don't think I love you anymore.
BS: I think I may feel the same way.

WS: I haven't loved you for a while.
BS: I noticed my feelings for you changed a while back too.

It just helps, it gives them less control over the situation and sure does confuse the heck out of them!! LOL

Small victories are worth it for self esteem.

Tarnsy HI!

Gosh you are doing great. Keep it up.. I agree with your posters, I would just allow DD to say what she needs to say and just listen and don't take anything WH says to heart, it always blows my mind how they (WSs) can turn everything around so that they are victim in all of this.

Sounds to me that OW is a bit controlling, sounds like he's not getting all his EN's meant,,poor baby,,(not)

Stay strong ....

I had a word with DD14 about WH’s comments and just told her that I completely understood why he thought that I was using reverse psychology but as I had explained previously to her (she also read my pbl) this wasn’t why I was not having any contact with WH. I also told her again that WH wouldn’t be welcome home just because he and OW had broken up, that he needed to accept that he had made a mistake and would be willing to work on our R.

It’s difficult to know how much to tell her, I don’t want to influence her one way or the other. I just hope that she will eventually see that I am in a better place as I am no longer having my heart and mind played with.

Orchid, I love the RB, I used it successfully a few times in plan a. It’s one of the things I miss being in plan B!

Principled, whereabouts in the UK are you? There doesn’t seem to be many of us Brits on MB. If you don’t want to say where you are, I understand.

Free and F26, thx for keeping up with me. I need all the help I can get.

Well, WH contacted K (intermediary) to say that he needed the last 6 mths bank statements he had previously asked for. Apparently he had asked the bank to send them to him but they hadn’t arrived. Seeing as I give him all the mail that comes here for him I knew that I probably didn’t have them but managed to find three of them. Why he doesn’t change his address I don’t know! WH sent his employee to get them who then gave me a note from WH.

“Thanks for your help Tarnsy, Having to go through K is not ideal make no mistake. I am very uncomfortable having to discuss personal matters with her. I know she has the best intentions and for that I am grateful. But I don’t want to do it! Dx”

Firstly, I don’t know what personal matters he is referring to. As far as I am concerned, nothing that has occurred since plan b started could be regarded as personal. Secondly, WH has been given the option of using K’s fiancé A as an intermediary but he has not done this. And doesn’t that last sentence sound just like a 2 yr old? Me thinks he needs to stop throwing his toys out of his pram!lol

Tarnsy

Tarnsy, I'm here for you. Plan B is hard, isn't it? But the statistics work in our favor as most Waywards come home in this Plan and not in Plan A.

My WH told me that I was being ridiculous for having an intermediary and that he wouldn't do it. Such disrespect.

Keep strong! Stay dark.

I think you're doing really well, Tarnsy. Any communication from the WS has triggering potential, but you brought it here, posted it, vented out the frustration, and probably went about your day.

Most importantly, you didn't respond to it.

Awesome job, Tarnsy....I'm following in your footsteps!

I don't have any advice to give, only this: YOU ROCK!

Ron

Orchid: You can determine how much to tell her by asking her for her POV. That will help you set the ground rules. Then share principals and build on that the importance of moving forward as a family. You will find she c/b a good aly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Respect that she does not want to lose her R w/her dad. Let her know you want to support her R with her dad but need her support in protecting each other from the WS. Teach her the difference. Let her know it is ok to let her dad know when he is being a WS jerk. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> This will give her support that while she needs to be respectful, she also can speak her POV. That is why I fee it is important to keep our children in the loop. They often feel left out in the lurch when a parent keeps the children in the dark and does not discuss the A's affect on the family.


[/quote]Orchid, I love the RB, I used it successfully a few times in plan a. It’s one of the things I miss being in plan B![/quote]

Orchid: U can still use it. I even recall during my plan B, he would attempt contact of sorts (mostly by VM and e-mail), I would RB..... he wouldn't hear it (i.e. plan B silence) but it didn't mean I couldn't respond in the comfort of my own place of safety. LOL!!! It was a form of therapy for me. I was able to vent and then refocus.

JMHO,
L.

Hi all,

Well WH is still kicking and screaming against plan B. He called K to say that he is a busy man and this is not working for him! Funny that, his living with OW doesn’t work for me either!lol

He then tried another tactic. DD14 called her dad and during the convo he asked her how I was looking and what was I wearing. When she told him I had tight leggings on he said “I’d better not say what I’d like to say”. Honestly, what does he think he is doing? I know what he wanted to say but to say things like that to his daughter!!!

WH’s sister is coming round tomorrow. We don’t get to see a lot of her as she lives a couple of hours away. She is the only one in WH’s family that I have any contact with - never even had a phone call from mil/fil. I’m wondering how much she knows of the current sitch, whether WH has told her that I’m “not talking to him”. Not sure if I should bring it up myself or just see if she says anything. Either way I shall make sure that she sees that I’m doing well and am content with my lot even though I would prefer for WH to be home and in love with me.

It should be WH’s w/end with DD’s but he is only seeing them Sunday as his family have paid for him to drive a race car round a track for his 40th birthday which he can’t cancel without losing the money. Unfortunately this has led me to have some not so nice thoughts about what would happen if WH was involved in an accident. I know that worrying over something that has not happened is a complete waste of time and am doing my best to put these thoughts out of my head but I can’t help wondering how I’d cope being his next of kin but knowing that OW would be at his bedside.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not sitting here pondering the “what ifs”, it was just one of those thoughts that popped into my head and is one that I don’t have an immediate answer to. Still, I’m not going to waste anymore time thinking about it (getting it out here helps) and I’m going to be busy for the rest of the day and all day tomorrow so there will be little time left to think about anything!

Hope you all have a good weekend, I shall try to catch up with some threads on Sunday

Tarnsy

YES! You're doing very, very well.

Have a great weekend.

Could use a little pick up I suppose.

WH’s sister visited at the w/end and it was good to see her and her 2 children. We spoke briefly about WH and she said she completely understood why I was not having any contact with him. She and WH are very close so I guess he has told her that he had been sitting on the fence as she said that it wasn’t fair of him and that he needed to decide what he wanted. I did tell her that I was happy with my life as it is but to give her brother a slap for me!lol

WH had DD’s on Sunday afternoon and took them to OW’s house as he had no money and she was out. Received a phone call from DD14 about 10mins before they were due home to ask if they could stay for another hour so that they could see the rest of the film they were watching. I reluctantly agreed as I didn’t want them there long in case OW turned up. Which she did.

5 mins before the end of the film OW came in saying that she had been throwing up (ha!). She went upstairs where DD8 was playing on the laptop and tried to act interested in what DD8 was doing. OW has obviously figured it will be easier to get round an 8yr old than a 14 yr old! DD14 ignored her attempts at conversation lol.

On Monday WH picked up DD’s for one of their clubs and asked DD14 why she had “blanked” OW. Honestly, does he really need to ask that? So OW must have said something to WH about DD14, who knows, maybe she LB’d!

Oh and he also told DD14 that he wanted to crawl into a black hole and disappear. (!) He also commented on it being a full moon and said that maybe he would come and howl outside my window. I have to wonder if he is just saying things like this because he knows DD14 will tell me and it’s his way of keeping me dangling.

Yesterday WH called the home phone and left a message asking if he could have a word. I then received an email apologising for contacting me direct but that intermediary’s phone was switched off. He had a problem with picking up DD’s and then went on to say:

“I wish you would have taken my call this morning as I am in rather a pickle and it would have been good to talk to you.
I won’t discuss via email as I know you don’t want me to. I know you wont call me so don’t worry about it.
Maybe you will take my call next time.

I hope you are well.

Dx”

And then to top it all off WH called again and spoke to DD14. I don’t know what he said to her but it persuaded her to pass the phone to me pleading with me that I must talk to her Dad as he was upset. Against my better judgement, I took the phone off her and just said “D, you know I can’t talk to you”. He said “I know, it doesn’t matter now, there are too many people around”. And that was it apart from saying goodbye.
He then sent me a tm saying that it was good to hear me albeit briefly and signed off with a kiss.

I know I shouldn’t have spoken to WH but how could I not when DD14 was asking me so imploringly? DD14 does understand my reasons for not speaking to her Dad but when she perceives that he is upset she thinks that I should “act like a grown up not a child” (her words!) Any advice on what to do in this sitch would be much appreciated.

Also I’m finding it a bit more difficult not to wonder what it is that WH is upset about. I know that this is not conducive to my plan B but for some reason I have got it into my head that OW maybe pregnant. WH has previously stated that this would be a major problem for him as he does not want any more kids (OW has none) and with her being sick at the weekend and him being upset my mind has been in overdrive. I know I’m putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5 so please feel free to give me a 2x4!!

Tarnsy

(Sorry this has been so long!)

Hey Tarnsy,

Chin up and just stay dark. If you do get seduced into speaking into contact, just ask the question: 'have you left her yet?' then 'ok well contact me when you have' i.e. just remind him of the conditions that have to be in place for you to be with him again. Kinda like mim_here did with her H.

Tarnsy I agree stay dark, you have always been his rock and now he is loosing his footing stay strong.

As hard as it is try not to worry about her being pregnant, you have enough to handle without worring about things that may or may not be. I'm very proud of you, F-26

tarnsy I have lurked your thread but never posted....I am a bit worried at how much he is using the children.....I think you need to have the intermediary tell him in no certain terms that he is not to discuss the situation with the children.....it puts them in the middle and he's using them like pawns/minions to do his bidding...they are kids...let them be kids...they shouldn't have to worry about grown up stuff just yet. I would contact your lawyer if you have one and just state if he doesn't stop the damgaging stuff he's doing and follow the specific intructions of going throught the intermediary regarding scheduling and such the children shouldn't be in his presence....I mean he's a grown man who should be able to control his actions around the children. He has the time to spend with the children not dwell on what your doing and bother the children with asking them about you and sending messages to you via them.

Unless he wants to truly return and establish NC with OW and be there for his family....he needs the slap in the face that he can't have both and you will not let him disrespectfully damage your children in such a way.

Tarnsy,

I been away getting my Mom moved into Assisted Living. Sorta like a trip to h3ll.

I have to agree with SIHW on this. Your WH is using your girls to attempt to manipulate you. Frankly, it doesn't seem like he wants to move his booty off the fence.

You have rocked the boat with your plan B and still he isn't ready to give up OW, establish NC, and come home and work on the marriage.

Please talk to your attorney and see if there is any help from that direction.

I guess if it were me, I'd be getting pretty sick of his bull crap by now. Just how long does he think you can take this?

(((((((Tarnsy))))))))

Who

Good advice here from Principled.

On communicating through the kids, yes it is a crappy thing to do, but you probably can't stop it. I don't imagine that having someone tell him it is inappropriate will penetrate the Fog. After the next time he does it, I would think about sending him a tm that says "Do you think it is appropriate to use the kids to get to me?" But that probably won't work either.

I would definitely have a frank conversation with your kids about why you're doing what you're doing. You have already done that, but express that it is wrong for him to put them in the middle. It is not fair for the kids. The kids should understand that.

You're still doing really well. You got too much information about the OW being sick and lost your focus, but you'll get it back.

I don't get on often anymore, but I do read a few posts. And after reading your story so far I am compelled to pass along some thoughts.

It is ABSOLUTELY essential WH stop using your DD as a go between. Here are some suggestions...

Ask DD to shield herself against hearing anything about you. Tell Dad she doesn't want to talk about or answer ANY questions about you. This is THEIR time and to talk about ANYTHING else. Suggest to her NOT to answer questions about you. If he starts talking about you (and he will) to remind him not to talk about you, and to change the topic.

Do NOT tell you things about dad. Yes, it is important to talk about her experiences. Find a caring adult she is close to she can call after visits to talk with...NOT YOU! Like an intermediary for the kids...

Secondly, every time you hear his voice or read an email or a tm or im you are at square one with your Plan B. How about letting your intermediary tell him that you will block his email, not listen to vm, and erase tm and im without reading it. And then do it. When you see it is a call from him, erase the message. Delete the tm and im without reading it, and definitely block his email. If he REALLY wanted to get ahold of you, he would call the intermediary and if he couldn't get ahold of you he could get a family member to call you.

Plan B isn't about manipulation or getting the upper hand, although it sure does seem like it at first. It is easy to get into a power play with the wayward. Remove yourself. Plan B is about preserving the love you have left so you will have strength left when reconciliation begins. Your love is like a big tub of ice cream. Over the years, and especially lately, that love has been eaten up, and eaten up until one day you look down and there is just one scoop left. Every time you hear his voice, think about him, hear from DD about him, it is like a spoonful of that last scoop is getting eaten away. Preserve that last bit of love with all your being, you will need it later. Once it's gone, it's gone and D is next...

Plan B has a secondary effect too. It gives the W a taste of what life would be like after the D. Would he regret D'ing you? I think so...most do. How fast can he realize this on his own? How quick a learner is he? The less contact you have with him, the faster he will get to this point...

Sure this may take years, it may take months, it may take hours, but every contact you have with him elongates that time...

Good luck, be strong!

Start your Plan B today...

Hi everyone,

Thank you for all the concern and advice re WH using DD's to get to me. I will take some time to think about all the suggestions here as to how to put a stop to it. DD14 is not one to take things lying down and if she thinks that WH is overstepping the mark with his comments she will tell him. Trust me, she soon told me when she thought I was asking too many questions about WH - in the days before I found MB!lol.

It has been pretty quiet, WH seems to be settling down and accepting my not wanting to see him. We have had a little to-ing and fro-ing via my intermediary (K) concerning DD’s not wanting to see OW after she turned up unexpectedly whilst DD’s were with WH. I asked K to pass on that DD’s felt uncomfortable with her there and asked WH to ensure that this didn’t happen again. WH replied “I can’t kick OW out of her own house can I? It is very unfair to ask her to stay out when I have the girls. This whole situation is getting beyond the joke. I have no where to turn, if I do one thing it upsets some one or other. I am stuck in the middle with no where to go! It is all getting a little too much. Give me a small dark room some where so I can curl up in a ball.”

It’s a shame WH didn’t have such concerns about upsetting people before he decided to embark on an A and then moving in with the ho! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Still, I suppose he is more concerned about upsetting the OW than he is his DD’s. I have found myself feeling more anger towards WH because of this; I still find it hard to believe that he could put OW before his own flesh and blood, although I know this is normal behaviour for a WS.

K replied that this was how his DD’s felt, it wasn’t coming from me and that they shouldn’t have to endure more heartache as they have suffered enough already. As a result of this, WH is not seeing DD14 Sunday (DD8 is at a dancing competition) as he has no money to take her anywhere and OW will be at the house. Yet another example of how selfish W’s are!

WH only broke through the darkness once in the last few days and that was today. WH picked up DD14 to take her to school and as she was running a bit late he stood in the hallway. I stayed out of the way, pottering around in the kitchen doing all the normal morning stuff involved in getting kids ready, singing as I went as I often do. This prompted the following email from WH.

“Sorry for emailing you, I know you have asked me not to.
I just wanted to say that I enjoyed hearing you sing this morning albeit for a second or two.
I would have liked to have put your face to the voice, but alas you still will not see me.

Have a good day Tarnsy.

D x”

Obviously he got no response!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

"WH only broke through the darkness once in the last few days and that was today."

That's not exactly true. Every time you read email or anything but the facts from the foggy-brained one you are still in contact. It's not just about physical contact.

Instruct your intermediary to give you just a synopsis of data that you need to know from WH emails or convo's...there is absolutely no need to read verbatim dialog between them.

And do NOT read any emails from him.

This is not about him or the Plan...this is about YOU. You are doing yourself a disservice staying so attached. Your love leeches away in every encounter you have.

I have seen this OFTEN...if you continue the way you are going you will not have enough strength for recovery, or will give up before the A does and D is imminent.

I have read many stories on here. It seems the folks who do a half-hearted Plan B, or allow the WS to come back too soon, accept too little, end up in a very bad place, usually D. Please don't go there.

If you have a great deal of love and strength left, then consider going back to a Plan A. If you are truly committed to a Plan B, then do it all the way, but this in between is marital suicide...

Tarnsy,

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with stillmakingithere on this. A real plan B should involve no contact of any kind, no communication of any kind except thru the intermediary, and even that should not be communication that pertains to you or your relationship. Your WH should not be coming into your home to pick up your DD, she needs to be ready when he arrives and he needs to wait outside in the car.

You did a stellar Plan A for more than a year and your WH did not give up OW and come home. I honestly believe that only a good firm, no nonsense plan B will bring him back to the marriage.

I forget who said it here, but someone once said "you only get one chance to do a good plan B."

Please don't consider this a 2X4, I am really concerned for you.

Best,

Who

bumped up

Tarnsy how are you doing????

Hello all,

Sorry it’s been a while but I have had no internet connection for about a month so have been unable to take the time to post.

I shall endeavour to fill you all in on what has occurred since my last post. WH seems to have stopped using DD’s to send messages back to me. At least, DD14 has said little of their time spent together other than where they have been and what they did etc. I have not asked DD’s not to say things that come from WH as I don’t want them to feel unable to talk to me about the situation.

Plan B was working well for me. I was spending less time thinking about WH and what would happen if/when we got to recovery, instead I found myself thinking more about a future without him (somewhere I’d never thought I’d get to!) and wondering about the practicalities of staying in plan B as opposed to starting D proceedings.

It was at this point that DD14 asked both WH and me to attend a meeting at the school – this is the year that she chooses which subjects she will be taking qualifications in – and said quite succinctly that “this is about my education, not about you and dad!” So, as I was feeling strong I agreed to attend with WH making sure that I looked my best and taking on an air of non-chalance.

The evening went without incident. There was little time for chat and apart from pleasantries and a couple of jokes, WH and I hardly spoke. There was no awkward atmosphere and I think we both felt comfortable although we hadn’t seen each other for over 2 months.

A couple of days later, WH sent me a text saying how much he had enjoyed seeing me, how fantastic I looked and how much he has missed me. I didn’t reply. The message had the effect we all know it would. I again started thinking along the lines of “what if he dumps OW?”, “does he miss me enough to end it and come home?”. I know that I should have deleted the text without reading it but I felt at the time that whatever it was, it wouldn’t get to me.

This all happened a couple of weeks ago and apart from a few tm’s (intermediary was unavailable for a few days) we had no more contact. Until yesterday.

This is where it gets interesting. WH caught me on the phone by using an unknown number. My first question upon collecting myself was “have you dumped the ho?” to which there was no reply. WH stated that he had called to speak to DD’s and to let us know that he had paid some outstanding bills, he also dropped into the conversation how lovely it was to hear my voice and how much he missed me. I told him that he knows the answer to that to which he replied “yes, I do”.

WH then spoke to DD’s but before hanging up asked DD8 to thank me for the photo. (A few weeks previously I had a sent some photos of members of his family that I no longer wish to have in the house along with a couple of DD’s and one of WH and myself standing behind those models where you poke your head out of the top, a caveman and woman, taken on a family holiday.) I had forgotten about this so asked “what photo?”. WH said “the one of us as caveman and woman, it tells me a lot”. I then did something I shouldn’t have and “spoke” to WH on IM.

The start of the conversation was basically WH saying how sad, angry and frustrated my plan B had made him feel(!) and how he just wanted to curl up in a ball in a dark room and forget about everything . No sympathy from me on that! He also said that he felt that something was going to break and that he didn’t want that something to be us, to which I had to ask how much more broken could we get!

He then went on to say how confused he is feeling and he doesn’t know which way to turn. I told him that he has been saying this for over a year, to which he replied that it’s different now. He can’t stop thinking about me, all day, everyday and when he closes his eyes. I asked what the confusion was then and he said it is the fear that the things that were wrong in our R before the A would resurface. He can see that I’ve changed for the better but would those changes be permanent.

I told him that I was willing to do whatever it took to restore our family but asked if he was. WH said he knew that there would be lots of tears, anger and resentment towards him from myself and DD’s but (and this is the part that got to me) “I know it would be a lot of tears and anger but if it’s what all four of us want then we can get through it”.

That was basically it as we had to end the conversation as he was at work. I know I probably shouldn’t have broken my plan B, but in a way I’m glad because I was beginning to wonder if I would be up for recovery if the opportunity came along or even if that was what I wanted. Now that I am seeing glimpses of the man I fell in love with I think I may have the strength to go through what will probably be the toughest part yet.

So, bring on the 2x4’s! But please advise me what I should do next. Do I go back into the dark or do I test the water? I don’t want WH to think that I have completely given up on him/us whilst he is having doubts but I don’t want to fall into a false recovery. Just to confirm, I have not contacted WH, it has been his doing, I have repeatedly told him that if he wants to talk M reconciliation then he needs to dump the ho and I know that until this happens, his words mean nothing.

Waiting impatiently for your words of wisdom

Tarnsy

Tarnsy,

Welcome back. You're not going to get a 2X4 from me. It SOUNDS like you WH is starting to waiver a bit. Perhaps he needed confirmation that you were still interested in reconciliation and recovery.

It's good that he knows what must be done and that it isn't going to be easy. The only concern that I have is his emphasis on the changes you have made and your willingness to maintain the "new you."

If he ends the affair, sticks to a complete NC with OW for life, and comes home, he will have to realize that HE has to change as well.

Whatever wasn't quite right in your marriage that led him to believe than an affair was justified, or a solution, was one half his responsibility.

I am keeping my fingers crossed for you. Hopefully others who have experience in plan B will stop by this morning.

Good to have you back.

Who

Hi Tarnsy,

I read your sitch last year and agree with Who. Stand firm on your Plan B requirements. NO LESS.

The ball is then in his court.

Don't let him bounce pass it back (diversion) or roll it back (attempt to cake-eat)....make him send it back to you directly with his firm agreement that he wants to abide by ALLLLL your requirements.

Best wishes.

Ace

Hi Tarnsy,,

I am so glad you where able to catch us up to date,I was worried about you. I am no expert on plan "B",but I do think it was a good thing that your WH knows the door is still cracked for him. You just have to make sure you go back into B mode so that he doesn't get his Tarnsy fix and thus doesn't have to make any decisions on comimg home.

keep up the good work and stay strong! F-26

Tarnsy --

A different opinion from me.

Just when he was getting uncomfortable...just when he was feeling his consequences....just when he was wondering if he had pushed you too far -- you stepped in and relieved him.

Now he has the strength to continue his affair just a bit longer, because he knows he hasn't pushed you too far yet.
He knows he can prolong this a bit longer because you are still waiting for him.

Was that what you wanted? To prolong this affair?

I suggest you send him another copy of your Plan B letter.
Attach a note saying that the recent contact with him has been painful because he knows how unhappy you all are with the situation, but he is DOING nothing to change it.

This is an interesting turn of events.

The way of the WS is they will eventually feel remorse and guiilt for what they have done, sometimes that is soon, and sometimes that is later. You would hope that is sooner, and that is what Plan B will effect, how soon they 'get it'.

It is VERY common that a WS will test the waters before coming back, see what the situation would be like, how much punishment and consequences they would have to face. And sometimes they are testing the waters to see if they can negotiate a return to having both of their love interests hanging on...

Just from what you have said, this sounds like the former. He is rethining coming back, but hte A hasn't ended yet, there is trouble in paradise, but he is not completely disillusioned by the A...yet.

What I have seen happen in the past, what worked for me, and what I have even heard the Harley's recommend is very similar to what you have done. When there is accidental or required contact, and you get the kind of questions you received, you show the WS there is still a path back to you, and what it looks like...no mo ho, and hard work on both your parts. I think you effectively did that.

When he gets close again he will test the waters again. It will be up to you to determine why he is in contact again...

I would not initiate or allow contact. But if it accidently happens again, reassure him of your intent to work on the marriage, and that the ho has to be completely gone (not necessarily in that order).

On the other hand...he knows what he needs to do...he would like to have you both...and is fighting with himself and making excuses and lying to himself about why he is not coming back to the M. Let him work it out on his own. If he can begin to tell himself the truth, you will want him back, if he comes back filled with these lies and excuse, who wants that.

My suggestion is to stay dark...let him stew. Let him know you are not running back to the excuses, but only the whole man is allowed back...

I agree with re-sending the PBL.
it restates everything without having contact.

hugs,
cgw

Hi Tarnsy,

This does appear to be good news and, like the others who have responded, I think the way in which you handle this situation is rather crucial.

It would be very easy to let your eagerness to have him back screw up the opportunity to start recovery by relaxing the conditions of his return. It would also be easy to open up to some form of relationship with him.

I don't think you have done anything wrong, you have just clarified that you are willing to have him back but only under the right conditions. This seems to be a hallmark of successful endings to Plan B.

It might be worth you reading the Plan B success stories (link in my signature) to see how others managed their way out of it. Ironically many seem to involve quite a bit of contact at the end of Plan B but the purpose of that contact seems to be to reinforce the boundaries and sometimes to provide encouragement to implement them. Some of them even Plan A'd from a distance under advice from the Harley's.

I don't know what would be best for you but one thing I have learned is that if you allow them back without sticking 100% to your boundaries, you will be wasting your time. For example: "I will write the NC letter." is useless. A written one, with the stamped, addressed envelope is what you accept.

Good luck to you tarnsy, I hope this is what you've been waiting for.

Best wishes,

P

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the replies. I have taken some time to think about things and to read up on some other threads (thx Principled) and I think the best thing for me to do at the moment is to “be still” as somebody wisely advises here.

My plan is to not initiate any contact and to avoid WH where possible. If WH does attempt to contact me I will continue to reiterate what was stated in my PBL, i.e. dump the ho, commit to NC for life and marriage counselling. So far he has only hinted at agreeing to these and as we all know actions speak louder than words.

Lexxy, you asked if I was concerned that I may have helped to prolong the A. Well, tbh, it has been going on so long now (16 mths since dday and 4 mths previous to that) that I am not duly concerned. I am no longer at the point where I cannot see a future without WH and if he does not come back to the M then I will be fine. I don’t think the A will last much longer whether I am in the picture or not and I would rather that WH got the OW out of his system rather than come back and always have those “what ifs”.

The only contact WH and I have had since last week was entirely accidental when we bumped into each other in a local shop yesterday. Thankfully I was looking pretty good which is more than I can say for WH! He was visibly pleased to see me and said how lovely it was and that he just wanted to give me a cuddle. I took this opportunity to tell WH that he knows what he has to do for that to occur to which he replied, yes I do. When we parted company he said “see you soon” to which I said “probably not”. WH said “I think it will be”. Again, just hints, nothing concrete.

In the meantime, I shall carry on with my life with DD’s and if WH continues to make noises then I will just restate the conditions he needs to meet before we can discuss reconciliation. I don’t want him to think that the door has been permanently closed, at the moment, he still has a chance to come home but I think this will probably be the last one.

If anyone thinks I am going about this all wrong then please point me in the right direction!

Thanks for all your words of advice and support

Tarnsy

tarnsy,

You've got it spot on!

I hope I'm as adept as you at handling that accidental meeting if I ever get the chance.

Keep us posted.

Best wishes,

P

Hi Tarnsy,

I'm glad to hear that you are doing OK. I am hoping that some of the experienced plan Bers here will be able to advise you on something that is on my mind concerning your situation.

I guess that I am wondering, since you did such a long plan A during which your WH often hinted and or implied that he might be coming home (correct me if I am mistaken), I am wondering if there is something that you should be conveying to him ???? that will let him know than even in plan B, there will come a time when you will no longer be willing or interested in resuming your marriage to him.

I understand that you have reached the point where you will be OK even if he doesn't come back,



but I am wondering if your WH has even considered that. His recent hints and comments





during the last chance encounter you had with him certainly gave me the impression that he ASSUMES that the door will always be open.

Experts, Any thoughts?

Who

Thx Principled.

I surprised myself at how I handled the meeting! Not long ago it would have probably occurred differently but months of reading here has prepared me well! I'm sure you will do just as good a job should the chance present itself.

Who, you have mentioned something that has been on my mind alot. Should I let WH know that this is probably the last time he will have the opportunity to come home or not? It doesn't seem to fit with what is stated in the PBL. The PBL gives the impression that the BS will wait for the foreseeable future but there comes a point where we all just want to say, "you know what, I've had enough, I have more respect for myself than this".

I'm pretty sure that this is where I am at the moment. Yes, it would be fantastic to have WH come home, remorseful and willing to put his all into our marriage, but it won't be the end of the world if he doesn't.

But would letting him know that this is possibly the "last chance saloon" be seen as pressuring him, manipulating him even? I don't know.

I hope some others can throw some light on this dilemna.

Tarnsy

Hi Tarnsy,,

Good job on how you handled WH at the store,, in my opinion I would not contact him, I think you should go back dark.

I think if you contacted and said anything about time running out, or you have to make a decision 'cause times running out it will be seen to him that 1) you're chasing him (feeds his ego) or 2) you're trying to force his hand and if he is anything like my hubby the more you try to get him to see the light the harder he'll try to unplug the lamp.

I feel you should go back dark, he will test this now that he has seen some light so you need to be stronger then ever, but I do think he's cracking..

(just my .02) F-26

Tarnsy,

I agree with Faithful26 when she said, that you shouldn't contact him and tell him anything at this point. But, I am concerned that you are just about past the point of willingness to accept him back into your life.

I am not sensing either pain or anger in you and while that is good, what I am seeing is that you might be feeling like there is a declining chance that you will be able to recover your marriage.

I think that might be affected by the quite long duration of your plan A.

I think your love bank is close to empty if not completely empty right now and I don't think your WH has allowed himself to consider what he will do if you aren't available for him to come back to. He appears to assume that you will simply be there waiting with outstretched arms waiting to forgive him.

I just don't know the best course of action right now. I only recognize that IMHO, if this goes on for much longer, you aren't going to even want to work with him toward a recovered marriage.

I'm going to put out a call to some of the more experienced folks here on a separate thread.

Who

Hello again Tarnsy,

I agree with F-26. I would also add that you are the only one that loses if you give an ultimatum as you have no way out afterwards. I'd keep that little bit of info to yourself. He doesn't need to know it's over forever until it is.

Good luck,

Ian

Tarnsy,

Just as Principled said, I don't recommend an ultimatum either, but I remain stubbornly concerned that your WH is completely clueless as to how close to the end I feel you are.

I put out a call for others to check out this thread and hopefully you will hear from someone more experienced in this than I am.

Who

Do you all have any mutal friends that could maybe relay the message???

You know, like tell this friend that your feelings are disappating or that you are considering a D?? They may tell your WS what it is you tell them..

This is hard because I'm not yet in Plan B (very very soon though...) but have wondered about the same thing...and how to handle it.....

good luck...

not2fun

Not,

That is a great suggestion.

Tarnsy,

What do you think?

Who

Thx Not,

That is a great idea. Your timing is impeccable. WH is meeting with my intermediary's partner in less than 2 hours!

I could ask him to mention that time is running out for WH.

I need to decide quick, what do you think and what would be the best way to put it?

Tarnsy

I wouldn't ask him to mention it, it would look planned and manipulative on your part. Just bring up the fact that you ran into WS at the store and how bad he looks and take it from there....you want it to seem casual....and then you hope and pray he repeats the story to WS. Now if he asks you if you want him to mention that, just be non-chalant..."if you want you can" kind of attitude....you could also say that "WS thinks I will be waiting forever, but you know, I'm beginning to think otherwise...."

not2fun

ps...I do have a good idea from time to time...thanks...

Once again, I agree with Not.

Young lady, you are on a roll today! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Who

Ok, I see what you are saying. My intermediary's partner knows how I feel (his partner has told him) so hopefully WH will get the message!! But you know how dumb these WS's can be, WH will probably only hear what he wants to hear!

Oh well!

Tarnsy,

Keep your chin up, there is only so much you can do, and you have done it and are still doing it.

Who

Thx for the support Who, I'm certainly going to try!

Just to let you all know, WH cancelled his plans to meet with our mutual friend at the last minute so we will have to wait for another opportunity.

It is WH's weekend with DD's and I have a feeling that DD14 may say something along the lines of "get a move on dad, your times nearly up" as we have had a couple of instances when the subject has been brought up. She knows that I am now used to life as it is and even that I'm happier than I've been for a while but she also knows that I would still have WH home under the right circumstances. Still, I don't ask her to say anything but she's a bright girl and no-one could fail to see that we are moving on - with or without WH.

DD14 made my day (year actually) today. Part of her homework is to make a collage of someone who you idolise. I asked her who she idolises (expecting her to say some pop/tv/music star) and she said "you mum". Wow, did my heart swell with pride! That has to be the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me and that it came from my DD made it even more special.

Hope you all have a good weekend

Tarnsy

Awww Tarnsy that is wonderful,, see that's proof that you are an awesome person!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Your WH is a cake eater. One of the ways plan B works on a cake-eater is that it makes him worry about you moving on, and end his relationship (on his own) before you actually do move on. By interacting w/ him occasionnaly, you give him the impression that you aren't moving on, even if you may very well be. The more contact you have, the longer he will hang on to his affair (because he doesn't think he has to make a decision yet), and the more likely you are to move on without him. He doesn't think that you will leave him. If he does, he'll probably drop OW then and there. Darkness will make him think you are moving on more quickly. Just IGNORE him. He'll feel that he's losing control, and he's more likely to drop the OW. Make him try to win YOU back.

Hello all,

Hope everyone had a good Easter. Ours was a quiet weekend at home (which DD’s had requested) so we had time to relax and watch films.

Well, WH requested that we talk and said that he was ready to give some straight answers. He suggested that he pick me up from my dance class on Friday night. I agreed, partly for my own selfish reasons as it is always difficult to get a lift home.

He was there at the specified time and greeted me with a smile and a hug. I thought that I would let WH lead the conversation and he started off by telling me his work problems. By the time we arrived at my home he had made no mention of the answers he said he would give me so I made to get out of the car. WH said that he had better come in to say goodnight to DD’s which he did and then followed me into the kitchen.

I decided that I would bring the subject up myself and asked him what it was he wanted to talk about. He that he can’t stop thinking of me, that my face is always in his head and that everything reminds him of me. He said that he knew that this situation had to end. I asked him if by “this situation” he meant his extra marital relationship, he said yes. I asked him if he had made any plans to end the relationship and he said yes. I resisted the urge to jump up and down!

We have been here before, this time last year WH first started making noises about coming home, even to the point of ending the A but never made it back home and just ended up back with OW.

I asked him what was different this time and his answer was that his head was in a different place this time. He admitted that last year was mostly about SF and being a “typical bloke”.

I re-iterated the terms of PBL – NC for life, and counselling with the counsellor I saw at the beginning of all this, and he didn’t bat an eyelid. Said that he understood. Again, he spoke about his fears of having his A thrown back at him by me and by DD14, again, I told him that I didn’t think this would be as big of a problem as he feared, that this would be something we would work on in counselling.

There was more but my memory is not good at the best of time, never mind when I am hearing things that I had almost given up on ever hearing. I’ll write more if I remember it!

I did say as WH left that I wasn’t getting my hopes up, that actions speak louder than words and that I still had a nagging doubt that he would not return home. He replied by saying “you’ll see”. When I asked if he had any idea of when he was going to end the A he just said “sooner rather than later”, not really what I wanted to hear but I didn’t want to force the issue.

So, that’s the gist of it all. I think what I need to do now is to go back to being dark. I have shown him that there is still a way home (this was something he said, that he thought that he had missed his chance) but that he needs to dump the OW before we can move onto the recovery path.

Strangely, I didn’t feel elated after our conversation, I guess I know not to get my hopes up and I also know that whatever happens I will be OK. I don’t need WH to survive, but it would be good to have my family whole again.

I guess that I haven’t handled this the way that others may have advised but after having read some other threads about ending Plan B, I felt that WH needed to hear that it wasn’t too late as he feared, that if he meets my rather basic requests of NC and counselling that we can have a good M again. Until he tells me that he has ended the A I will be back in Plan B but hopefully it won’t be for long.

Any thoughts on if this is the right way to go?

Tarnsy

Oh, jmwc95, I only just saw your post. You are right about WH being a cake eater. I can see how what you have said has been the case for me and WH. I go back into the dark!

Tarnsy,

I am glad to hear that this might just end up working out for you. I think it is wise to go back to plan B until he starts taking appropriate action to end the A and come home.

I guess that if it were me and he doesn't do something soon, well next time he contacts you thru the intermediary to set up a meeting, I would send back the message that unless he has ended the affair and is trying to make arrangements to come home, well there is nothing to discuss.

I'd say the tables have turned in your favor. He looks like he is finally seeing what life without you looks like and doesn't like it. You on the other hand have survived well without him and you know that you can do it.

Good on you!!

Who

I affraid WH is fence sitting. That he met with you to see if you would still take him back.

No more contact until WH moves out of the OW's house and has NC. You have to knock him off the fence.

I hope you are right Who! I am not getting my hopes up and told WH this, I will believe it when I see it.

I have also told WH that I don't want to see him until he has ended the A. I know a lot of people may disagree with this but I think it will be a good idea to keep a line of communication open with WH and use the opportunity to remind WH that he needs to end the A. I have read what Mortarman wrote to Mimi on her old thread about the transition period and this made sense to me. I guess I may be in a different position to some others here as I had reached the point where I was ready to give up on WH when he started making overtures about coming home.

So, WH is still living with OW but insisting that he has made the decision to come home - more fence sitting I know. We are having limited contact when WH picks up DD's. WH continues to say the right things eg. that he will be home sooner than I think but I just give him non-committal replies about actions being louder than words or a simple "yeah, we'll see".

TBH, yes it would be great if WH came home but it won't be the end of the world if he doesn't. I have a date in my head that if WH hasn't returned by then I will go back to being pitch black dark and seriously think about implementing plan D.

Tarnsy

Thx for your input TheRoad. WH evens admits to being a cake eating fence sitter himself, making decisions has always been a problem for him. Can I ask if you are a BS, I can't remember reading your story?

Hi Tarnsy,,

I am glad you posted, I've been wondering how you are doing,,

I'm a little concerned for you, I've been where you are hubby would keep telling me he was coming home, promising it would be soon. Telling me how much he loved me, crying asking me not to give up on him and then he would leave and go back to the FOW's house. It was a very confusing and hurtful time, I believe he meant the things he said when he said them, but would then go back to her and get back into their life, and I waited.

My IC said that he was like the juggler in the cirius, the one that spinned the plates on the sticks, that hubby would do and say whatever he needed to keep me spinning on the stick and once I got going good he would run over to the FOW's stick and spin hers until my started slowing down then he would run over and get my plate spinning again then go back and forth trying to keep both plates spinning fast enough they wouldn't fall and break.

You WS sounds like he is doing the same thing, Please be careful and protect Tarnsy....

F-26

Hey Tarnsy,, how are you???

Bump for Tarnsy..... How are you and the girls doing???

Hello all,

Hope everyone is doing well, I will have to catch up on everyones threads as soon as I can but I have a lot on my plate at the moment. You will see why.

Firstly I apologise for my absence. I had no internet connection for over 2 mths due to WH not being able to pay the bill because of cash flow problems with his business. That is now beginning to ease.

So I have some good news. WH ended his A about a month ago. He then moved into his brothers home. During the last month we went on a few dates and spent every weekend as a family. As you can imagine there was a lot of talking. OW was still working 1 – 2 days a week for WH so coming home was out of the question. Withdrawal became apparent as WH struggled with whether he had made the right decision or not. It was as this point that I read out the chapter on withdrawal in SAA to WH and he subsequently asked to borrow the book.

Last Thursday was OW’s last day working for WH so we agreed that WH would come home at the weekend, both of us knowing that this was going to be the start of a lot of hard work. In fact, one of the things that WH said that gave me some hope was “I know that relationships are hard work and if I’m going to work at a relationship I would rather it was the one with my wife”.

Since Saturday I have been back in plan A. Trying to fill any EN’s that I can whilst knowing that it’s probably not going to get me anywhere until withdrawal is over. WH has yet to fill in the EN Q though this has been discussed and is on our list of things to do, the NC letter being at the top. I am hoping that this will be done tonight. WH knows this is non negotiable and has readily agreed to do it.

To recap, WH’s EA started June 06, he told me he didn’t love me Oct 06 and left the family home Nov 06. Dec 06 I found out about OW. There was a short false R May 07 and it was after that that I found MB and I started plan A although I had done a lot of what is prescribed anyway. July 07 WH moved in with OW, I continued plan A until Xmas and entered plan B 24/12/07. Was completely dark for 2 mnths and then gave in to DD’s demands that WH and I both attend a school meeting. After this we had sporadic contact during which WH continued to fence sit whilst telling me that he wanted to come home. I took everything he said with a large pinch of salt and told WH that he needed to re-read the plan B letter. Not really sure of what occurred between OW and WH but I do know that OW had a major issue with DD’s not wanting her to be a part of their lives (in fact, they only met her twice in the last 2 years and one of those was by accident!). Jul 08 sees the demise of the A and Aug 08 is the start of R!!

Well, it took a lot longer than I would have liked, (if anyone had told me it would take nearly 2 years for WH to return home at the beginning of all this then I probably would have done something very stupid!) but it seems that the experts are right once again.

I am going to have lots of questions and cries for help over the coming months I’m sure and I would like to say in advance that I look forward to learning from all of you and thank you for all and any support and advice.

And thanks to people like Who, F26, Orchid, WoF5, and many others, I have had the support and help I needed to carry on and fight for my marriage. Thanks to you all!

Tarnsy

OMG Tarnsy that is great news! I am very happy for you and your girls.

How are they taken to dad being home?

You are right the hard part is just starting,, but I know you can do it, you have been so strong for sooo long!

I'm glad your back I've wondered how you have been,, please keep us posted..

Best wishes always,, F26

Bump,, Tarnsy you out there????

Hello F26,

Just a quick hello for the mo as I need to go out shortly - will update more fully later.

Everyone tells you how hard R is but you don't realise until you're in it and thats without any major bumps in the road as yet! A couple of little of niggles that I will go into more of later - mostly to do with lack of time together because of WH's business but at least it's something that WH recognises is a problem.

Verifying that NC is in place is difficult although WH assures me it is but as we all know honesty is not a known trait of the WS! He is ok with me checking his phone and has given me his email passwords so that goes in his favour. I have no way of checking his work email acct unless I physically go to his office and check there.

Personally, I'm not doing too bad. Trying my best to fill his EN's (although we still haven't had a chance to fill in the EN Q)without getting anything back from WH but I knew that would be the case. Apart from SF that is, WH has been initiating this from his 1st day home which I take as a good sign .

Well I must dash, have a couple of errands to run before WH gets home and am cooking one of his favourite dishes tonight.

Thx for looking out for me F26, will update again soon

Tarnsy

OK all sounds pretty good,, At least he is being transparent with you, he gave you his pass words that is a good start.

And SF, that good too (LOL)..

Stay strong,,,

Best wishes F26

Yeah, the SF is not a problem, I did wonder if it would be difficult in the beginning to reconnect on an intimate level and although it's not what I consider to be "making love" it's not "wham, bam thankyou mam" either! I hope that once withdrawal is over and WH starts to have some of those old feelings for me again then SF will become more sensual.

I do have some bad news tho. Whilst checking WH's call log on his phone this morning I saw OW's name. A call had been placed yesterday morning but at this moment I'm not sure if WH called OW or OW called WH. Unfortunately it was just as WH and I both had to leave this morning so we haven't had a chance to discuss it or for me to verify who called who.

As you can imagine I am saddened that WH didn't tell me about the call. All he said this morning was that OW called him concerning some money he owes her (he had to pay her rent!).

Since WH has returned home he has refused to write a NC letter despite saying before he came back that he would. I have just sent WH a text telling him that if he doesn't write it then I will ask him to leave. I'm sure WH will see this as a selfish demand but then WH has been selfish ever since this all started - oh well, the ball is now in his court.

Also had the pleasure this week of finding amongst WH's things the valentine cards that they sent each other

WH's to OW's said along the lines of "bet you thought I'd forgot. Can't wait for tonight". Double

OW's to WH was something like "I know we have had a rough few months but if we work hard together we can have a wonderful future".

OMG!! "they" had a rough few months????? What the h3ll does she think me and my DD's have had?? Well at least it shows that all was not well in A land during plan B!!

According to WH he didn't know he had brought his A garbage into my house and it did strike me as strange that the card WH had given to OW was also there (I'd have thought she would have kept it) so I'm wondering if it was OW who put them in WH's bag to cause trouble, who knows? At least I can take some comfort in the thought that the Valentine card WH sent me was more romantic than the one she got. Perhaps I should send it to OW!!

Hey Tarnsy,,

OK in a absolute perfect world I believe there should be absolutely no contact between your hubby and his FOW, but, that being said I think in the situations that your FWH and my FWH put themselves in where they actually lived with these women, intwined monies, intwined lives it isn't always possible. (I can feel the 2x4's already).

Your fWH said she called about rent money, ok that maybe true, but he should have told you right away, even if it was a missed call. And he has to realize that 1) She may use every excuse in the book to keep some sort of contact with him,, money, mail, etc. (in my case it was guilt and a car). He has to stop that all that.

2) That if any contact is made he has to be completely open and honest with you, anytime he lies, or omits things or tells half truths it brings you back down to ground sub-zero.

I allowed contact to continue for way too long, I choose not to confront because I was afraid I would drive him away. I drove myself insane. I realise I should have been firmer and drew that line in the sand, but I was afraid. In my defense I had not found this MB site and I was flying blind.

As far as the V day cards, I wouldn't put it past her to have included them in his stuff. I would have him purge anything from her, gifts, clothes, cards whatever. (Funny thing happen to all my hubbies clothes that he bought while he was living with the FOW, they all got damaged in the laundry,, odd how those things "just" happen. LOL)

Good luck, it's a bumpy ride to say the least. F26

Hi F26,

I can see what you mean about how difficult it is for NC to be absolute when the AP's have lived together but this is a boundary for me and I need WH to understand that. I have told him that if he doesn't agree to this then he will have NC with me!

WH owes money to OW for work she did for his company as well as rent on the house they lived in together. WH has arranged for his sister to deal with the money issue resulting from the work so it won't be too hard for her to take on the responsibilty of seeing that OW receives the money owed by him personally, afterall his pay comes out of the business.

I was sad that WH didn't tell me immediately about the C and I will give him the benefit of the doubt over this as he was probably unsure what my reaction would be. Well now he knows so he has no excuse in the future, I didn't rant and rave at him, I told him I was hurt and disappointed. I reiterated my need for the NC letter to be written and told him today it has to be done tonight.

Anyway on a good note, we had a pretty good weekend. WH had to work most of Saturday but we had a good talk as we took our dogs for a walk. WH said that he wonders if has been deluding himself all is life by thinking that he is a good person as for the last 2 years he has been untrustworthy, selfish and pretty much a b*stard (his words). I told him yes he has been those things but only since he met OW, he wasn't any of those things till he met her and that she wasn't good for him.

I told him I was impressed that he had obviously taken the time to think about this and I hope it was sign that the fog may be lifting. I hope WH will soon come to see that he can be a good person/husband/father again.

Sunday was great. I let WH have a lie in then he got up to make us all breakfast. DD's didn't want to go out with us so WH and I went to a local farm and spent a pleasant hour walking round the gardens. The only thing I'm a little sad about is that WH doesn't initiate any kind of physical affection (which is my top EN) such as holding hands. I put my arm through his a few times and just hope that one day he will reciprocate. I guess it's still early days for WH to be filling my EN's.

Upon our return WH cooked us all a lovely dinner for which he got lots of praise and later we went through the EN Q. I read out the q's for WH to answer and a couple of surprises popped up but nothing too shocking.

Think I will post about those another time as I'd like to get WH to discuss the findings with me in more detail.

Well, this has been a long post, I'll end for now but will update again very soon. This recovery lark has more twists and turns than any movie plot I've ever seen!

Thx again

Tarnsy

WOW I am really impressed with the way you are handling things.

You sound so strong,,

I feel that it is a good thing that your hubby is all ready reflexing on his behavior. It sounds good that you guys are spending time together, I love the fact that you are doing the EN Q's that's awesome. It sounds to me that you both are making huge gains, it just takes a lot of time.

Oh and I do understand your boundry on no contact and you are right about it,, it just took me a lot longer to put my foot down. So many issues,,so little time :crosseyedcrazy:

OK, am feeling very disheartened at the mo. Earlier I sent WH an email reminding WH that we have to write the NC letter (have asked several times since WH returned home) and that he has to close all his accounts on social networking sites.

WH sent this back (excuse his spelling!lol):

hidding nothing or not this watching me like you want to is not healthy for me I can tell you. I dont have a problem with not using the sites. this is one of the areas in the book that i do not agree with, that and this letter. I could stamp my feet and say my way or not at all, like your saying to me. I can tell you, like it or not that OW would not come anywhere near me for any reason now that we have split. She made this very very clear. She is only interested in her money, which is fair enough and that is being delt with.

To be honest this whole situation has been turned around in your favour. I was under the elution that I would be dictating the terms as you wanted me back so bad. This tooing and throwing is wearing me down, I feel like [censored] already due to the business. I dont like coming to work for all the reasons I have told you, now I am thinking, oh my god, what is she going to be asking me tonight or demanding I do. How can we have fun together and build this marriage if I feel like that. Beleive me or not, you had me well and truely before, for all the wrong reason and I aint going back to living like that and that I am afraid, and is the way it seems to be going. I am a control freak BS, you know that I need control of this and I dont. and its making feel bad. Me a*se is bleeding agian since I have been back, I am in a constant state of unease both at work and at home. If i am not careful I will end up in a mad house or worse. I need you to back off. I am home, thats what you wanted. I wanted to give it a go too, but not like this.

Post this on your web site and see what all the bloody experts have to say. I am just realy fed up with my whole bloody life. And its not down to OW either. Like I have told u she only loved and supported me. Never had a fight, never asked for nothing. Never demanded a thing. Why cant you just be content with the fact I am home and trying. I cant see love coming back into it while I am under all this preasure from you.
And if love dont come back we might as well admit defeat and I will go back to BIL's.

Sorry to be harsh, but I am telling you how it is, thats what you asked for. It seems that like before we will never agree with one another on anything.


I honestly don't think I am being demanding but the NC letter is a boundary for me, I have asked for it 4 or 5 times in 2 1/2 weeks and I only brought up the sites yesterday and mentioned them again today.

WH is obviously still in the fog and won't hear a bad word said about OW, all I hear is how caring and loving she is .

So, do I back off with the NC letter, she has contacted him once since he has been home (that I know of!). The reason I asked him again today to write it was because he "left" his phone at work yesterday and this smacked to me of having something to hide.

Obviously I want WH to feel love for me again but according to him he is not going to him if I am checking up on him altho he knew I would be doing so before he came home.

Experts please help!!

The NC LETTER is a NON-NEGOTIABLE in order to do RECOVERY...

I don't have time to read your entire post..but STICK TO YOUR GUNS about that...

Tarnsy you need to do what is best for you,, if the NC letter is a must have for you then explain it to him again, not from a do it or die stand, but maybe more from a I love you, I want this to work, I know this is hard and I want things to be better for us, but I need this stance. KWIM?

My hubby has never been one to handle being micro-managed by anyone, hates to be forced to do anything, it drives him insane, a seriuos LB, so I had to tread very carefully.

And as far as "she always supported me and blah, blah, mine use to say that they never fought, never argued, that it was so comfortable with her ,

Well every now and then we may be talking about things, as we call it "the dark days" and he would say something like man when ever you called and left a message for "your husband", boy did I pay for it she would go off.. just comments like that and of course I laugh like a school girl to myself, so anywho I wouldn't put much stock in that line.

tarnsy, IMO if you settle for crumbs, you will get crumbs. A nc letter is a good will gesture to you and a demostration of his sincerity. Opening up his life to you is a demonstration of his faithfulness. If he is not willing to do even basic things to protect you from further harm, then he is not safe.

A wayward cannot be allowed to set your boundaries or set the agenda. You have to do that. The very things that he does not want to do are the very things it will take to RECOVER your marriage. He has to change the things that made your marriage vulnerable in the first place, ie: transparency, etc. There will be no recovery if that doesn't happen.

I have a feeling his affair has simply fallen on hard times and he needs you BOTH to prop him up. Could that be the case?

He is still totally wayward and probable still in contact with OW. He was no where near rock bottom when he returned. You should not have let him return as he has no desire to meet any reasonable conditions of becoming a FWH. I think I posted to you only once many months ago and mentioned that your WH was a profound cake eater. Guess what? He has not changed at all.

He does not want to do an NC letter because he wants to continue contact.

He does not want to do ANY work for recovery. That would resemble commitment. He does not want to commit.

Has he shown any remorse for his actions?
Has he shown any regret for his actions?
Has he paid any restitution for his actions?
He is clearly resisting doing any rehabilitaion.

Honestly, put his bags on the porch and send him back to BIL. You don't need a false recovery.

Whaaaa!!

Whaaaa!!

Whaaaa!!

Whaaaa!!

He just wants to sit on the couch and wait for the Love Fairy to sprinkle love dust on him. Whaaaa!!





You answered your own question.

Put it to him like this:

"dear, in order for me to feel SAFE, I am asking for the following things from you:

a) nc letter to the OW - I would view this a good will gesture and a demonstration of your sincerity. I have been hurt so badly that this is very important to me

b) complete transparency by trading cell phones, giving me passwords, etc. I desperately need to learn to trust you again and I know that you want this too. opening up your life to me will help that happen

Dr. Harley says that these are the things that are required to effect recovery. i know they are the things I NEED in order to feel SAFE and recover from the trauma of your affair. Are you interested in doing the things necessary to recover our marriage? Because we will need a PLAN in order to do this.

Having a PLAN in place and taking steps to make me feel safe is what I NEED in order to be interested in reconciliation. I am not interested in going back to the way things were and I am sure you are not either."

here are the Requirements for Recovery:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...in=147963&Number=2002600#Post2002600

CHRISNER IS RIGHT. Your H is not interested in recovery, he just needed a new flop house from the sounds of it. Reconciling under these conditions will be horrendous to your mental health. False recoveries cause much more damage than the initial affair, IMO.

Raise the bar, tarnsey. If you settle for crumbs, you will get....crumbs.

Your H just wants to forgive and forget and move on like nothing happened. That is not in his best interest and most certainly is not in yours.

Wow, thx guys, I can't believe I have some of MB's "big guns" offering me advice!

I only have a few minutes as WH will be home soon and he doesn't approve of "self help" philosophies.

Mimi - I will stick to my guns on the NC letter but will take a more gentle approach.

F26 - my WH HATES being told what to do, I will tread more carefully when we next have the conversation and come at it from a different angle.

Mel - you asked if his A has fallen on hard times. I don't think so, they had lived together for a year and WH led me to believe before he came home that things had been going wrong for a while and that the things that were wrong weren't going to go away ie me and the kids! I won't accept crumbs any longer but how can I raise the bar? I'm afraid if I ask anymore than the things I have already asked for then WH will make good his threat to leave. Don't get me wrong, I'm not afraid of being alone, I was for nearly 2 years but I am in this for the long haul and don't want all this to have been for nothing.

Chrisner - I remember you posting to me before. Yes WH was/is? a cake eater. I don't think he is getting any EN's met by OW, the main one that she met that I didn't was FS!
In answer to your questions on if WH has shown any remorse, regret or restitution then I'm afraid the answer is no,no and no. I was under the impression that I wouldn't get an apology or that WH wouldn't express any form of regret for a long time, at least not until W is over, am I wrong in thinking this?



Thankyou thankyou thankyou!!

BINGO!! And what does that tell you? If he leaves because you insist on a plan of recovery, WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?

THAT HE IS NOT INTERESTED IN RECOVERY. He is just looking for a new flop house.

But he told you that here:


....exactly how he feels. He feels his presence is a FAVOR to you and is sufficient just compensation. He is not interested in recovery. You are training him to feed you crumbs and mistreat you, setting yourself up for more heartbreak.

Is the goal to have your husband back at any or all cost or is it to RECOVER YOUR MARRIAGE?

Then do it RIGHT, tarnsy. Don't set yourself up for another FAILURE. If you settle for these crumbs, you will have............crumbs.

Your h has no intention of participating in recovery AS IT IS. He believes you will accept him UNCONDITIONALLY.

And that is true so far. If you accept back under these *NO* conditions, you will have gone through the last 2 years for nothing. You are almost at the finish line, don't give up now!

Tarnsy

first let me say that your story is the perfect example of someone who was 100% certain that her M was over, the WH's A would last forever, and this would turn out to be the one A that would last.

A's end. they do.

I think the only thing I can add here, is that you really do need to stick to your boundaries, but do so with love. I hope that makes sense.

Something like this:
"H - I love you. I want to build a better M with you. I want to support you in every way I can. I am asking you to support me as well, by writing the NC letter. It is a symbol to me, of your willingness to committ to me, and our M, and completely sever all ties with OW. this letter will make me feel safe. Please do this for me"

one other thing - when you get ugly emails like that, the best thing you can do is leave it alone and don't respond. Your first reaction is to respond - quickly, with a long, well written response. But I would suggest that you just let it go. if you respond at all, just type a simple "I look forward to talking to you tonight when you get home. Love you. Have a good day"

when he types emails like that - he knows, inside, that he is wrong. that is why he types it - instead of saying it you face to face. He is scared. truly scared. But he can not admit his fears - so instead he tries to shout out (type out) his demands.
He is in panic mode. he expects you to respond back to him in panic mode as well. So throw him off balance by staying calm. Stay focused. Repeat your mantra "I love you, I am looking forward to a great M with you!! we had a wonderful weekend together, and I wnt to have more like that!! But I am scared. I am terrified of the OW. I just want to feel safe."

I know the feeling that you get when you see an email like that. the fear, the doubt, it all comes rushing back. But let it go, don't respond, and see what happens.
He expects you to respond. He expects you to be angry and out of control. Surprise him. Be calm. I would imagine that OW would have responded in anger - you are better than that.

Tarnsy my hubby didn't express his remorse for a long time, but when he did it was sincere and he had done a lot of soul searching, this is going to take time.

Womanoffaith made a lot sense to me, and the other posters are right too he will test you every chance he can,and he is still messed up.

Be firm but tell him "in love", not in a demanding way...

(((hugs))) F26

Hello Wof5, good to hear from you again. You were one of (if not the) first to reply to me on my original thread. You always had wise words before and you do again.

Well, WH and I had the convo last night. I approached it from as loving a stance as I could muster stating that I needed WH to write the NC letter out of respect for me, to prove that he was willing to do the work necessary to attempt R and to show that he was true to his word about having NC.

WH's first reaction was to say he felt that it was an insult to OW to write the letter as she was so adamant that the A was over. It was at this point that I asked WH if he was afraid of hurting OW's feelings more than he was of mine. WH waffled something about it not being about that.

We left it that WH would have a think about it on his journey to see a customer tomorrow as it he would be alone in the car for a couple of hours and would have time to think.

I sent WH a text this morning telling him I was thinking of him, that I loved him and that I would continue to be the wife he deserved. WH replied that he knew that, it was him that needed to try harder to find the love. I replied that I was sure it was there just buried deep and that all I needed from him was some commitment to our marriage and a willingness to do the work needed and that then the love would come.

So, WH returned home earlier, we had a nice family dinner and a glass of wine and then relaxed in front of the tv to watch the Olympics. Earlier, WH had said on the phone that he felt better today than he had in ages that the anxiety he has been feeling had not appeared. Initially I was pleased for him but then I wondered if this meant that C had been made.

I asked WH why he thought that he had been less anxious today and he said that he thought it was because he had been out of the office most of the day away from the phone calls (business is suffering from severe cash flow problems). Told WH that I hoped that that was it as I had wondered if it had meant that NC had been broken.

WH sighed and said "thats what is making me anxious, wondering what I am coming home to, you repeating yourself all the time. To this I just said that he had told me last night that he would take the time today to think about the NC letter. that I had waited long enough and that I needed to know if he was willing to write it or not. To my dismay WH said "I don't know".

Well, this wasn't good enough for me so told WH that if he wasn't going to write the letter then he could pack up his things and tell our DD's that he was leaving. WH replied "ok then, if that's what you want I'll tell them now shall I?" I said "yes, if that's what you want".

At this point WH got up and went into another room where DD's were playing on the Wii. Didn't hear anything coming from the room other the odd giggle ao I assume WH didn't say anything. WH has since come out of the room, gave me a playful nudge as I am writing this post and blew a raspberry!!

This has all happened in the last hour. I believe I called WH's bluff, he has had the perfect opportunity to leave again but so far hasn't taken up the offer. So my question is I guess, is what should my next move be? Do I keep restating that I need him to write the NC letter for me, so that I can feel secure or do I leave it? WH knows where I stand but it's falling on deaf ears! Help!!

Tarnsy

Bumping - need some advice please!!

Hi Tarnsy,

How did the weekend go??

Are you doing ok?

Hi F26,

Well, overall the weekend went very well. It was a holiday over here so WH had an extra day off work. I'll give you a "blow by blow" account of what occured.

Friday evening was going well until I asked WH to pass me his phone so that I could check to see if OW had called again as it was a Friday when she called last time. There was no record of any calls made to or from her number but then I checked the message log (not the actual messages) and it showed that WH had texted OW on the 12th. When questioned WH couldn't remember why he had texted her but said he thought it was to reply to a message from her. I don't buy that he doesn't remember - WH has a memory like an elephant - but I will have to accept this for now.

Well, I told WH this is a prime example of why I need the NC letter and that if it isn't written by the end of the weekend then his things will be on the front lawn! We ended up having a long discussion and I asked WH if he ever felt any remorse for his actions. He said that when he used to go outside for a cigarette at OW's house he would often feel regret at the hurt he has caused me and DD's and that he saw a shooting star one night and made a wish. WH has often refered to this wish but had never told me what it was - he said that his wish was that I would love him forever. This was either part of his cake eating, wanting me to love him even while he was "in love" with OW, not wanting me to move on and love somebody else or he "knew" deep down that his r with OW wouldn't last and that he wanted me to still be around when that time came. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt!!

Anyway, WH agreed (again!) to write the letter by Monday night. We stopped the serious talking there and went on to talk about our top 5 fantasy partners including who we would fancy if we were the other gender! This turned out to be hilarious! We had some correlation in our choices and it was quite enlightening to find out what sort of man WH would find attractive if he was a woman! So we went to bed on a good note after the mini drama of the text message.

Saturday was as usual. I took DD9 dancing whilst WH went into the office and he picked us up in time to see DD have her private lesson. This was the first time he had watched her and it was nice to include him in something that DD and I normally do on our own. I am now working on getting WH to have dancing lessons as part of our RC as that is something we are lacking at the moment.

Saturday night we went out for dinner with friends who WH hasn't seen since before the A. I realise that this would have been a little awkward for WH but he was happy to come. He has known Jayne much longer than I, since he was a child infact, and apart from Jayne telling him that she was glad to see us back together and that he had better not hurt me again, the A time wasn't mentioned.

On the way to meeting our friends I did tell WH that I wanted him to tell me if OW or anyone connected to her was there, he didn't seem to appreciate why this was important to me so I asked him how he would feel in my shoes. WH then brought up NC again and said he couldn't understand why I think it is wrong for his family to have NC as well. I told him that this was to prevent C between him and OW and to prevent messages or information being passed between them. WH just seems to think that I am trying to control him and that I have no right to tell his family who they can and can't talk to. I approached this by telling him that if his BIL had had an affair, would his sister then want me to talk or be friends with the OW. I don't know if WH get's why this is important yet, I hope it's just because he is still early in the W process.

Anyway, we had a lovely evening, great food, great wine and great company. WH said he looks forward to doing it again. Oh, and the best part for me was when WH leant over and gave me a kiss on the lips in front of a packed bar. And yes I told him that was my favourite bit of the night.

Sunday was a relaxing day at home. We didn't get up till late and WH had a bit of a hangover. WH watched the Grand Prix and then we cooked a nice meal. WH went round our neighbours for the evening who used to be one of his closest friends before the A but has only seen a handful of times in the last 2 years, so it was good to see that normal things are happening again.

Yesterday we all went to a small seaside town. It was a typical "grey" English day, no rain but not alot of sun either! We went on some rides, had dinner and overall had a fun day. I hated to spoil a good weekend but I reminded WH that he had promised to write the NC letter. I gave him the pen, paper and SAA turned to the appropriate page. WH took them and went into the dining room. I went through about 20 minutes later to find WH with his head in his hands but with the letter written.

I asked WH what it was particularly that had upset him. He was reluctant to talk but eventually said that he felt I was controlling him. I restated what I had said before, that this was what I needed him to do to show he was willing to work on our M, that if he didn't want to do it that was fine but that would mean that he would have to leave. I told him that if he wanted I would rip the letter up but that would be the end of us and he would never see me again. WH put the letter inside SAA and said read it tomorrow, if it's ok with you then I'll sign it when I get home.

So, I have read the letter, it is more or less word for word the example in SAA. Immediately though I noticed that WH had put "out of respect for my wife and love for my children" etc, when in the book it says "out of respect and love for my wife and children". To some this may seem petty but I would like WH to use this part word for word. My reason being that because OW is a female I know a bit about how her mind will work and I believe she will see that sentence and think "he didn't put love for his wife, that means he doesn't love her therefore he still loves me". What do you think? I am just being paranoid? Should I ask WH to change this? I know WH doesn't love me (it hurts to admit that ) but I don't want OW to know that!!

Well, that was longer than I thought it would be! Sorry to ramble!

Tarnsy

Oh Tarnsy the weekend sounded nice and "normal" which is huge.

As far as the NC letter, in my opinion I would accept the letter as he wrote it. I so can understand why you would want him to say "I love my wife", but maybe he can't right now. And writing that letter is a big step I think, so maybe concede this battle and win the war instead of pushing him to write it as you want it and him feeling that he was pushed and controlled. (just my 0.02 cents

I do not believe for a minute that he does not love you, why would he of wished his wish opon a star if he didn't love you? Why didn't he turn his back and walk away? Because he does love you. He's still very foggy and confused, I used to say my hubby was like a deer caught in the headlights of a car, he was frozen couldn't move left or right, just stood waiting for the car to hit him.

Things are going well and it is going to take time,, you know the recovery dance 2 steps forward one step back.

Speaking of dancing very good idea having you and him take classes together it will give you something in common. Hubby and I started taking Karate classes about 4 years ago and it has been the best thing ever for our marriage.

F26

Tarnsy:

First: STOP THREATENING him with "Your thowing him OUT" if he doesn't do something.

In one week you threatened him with this about 4 times.

So, Your threats mean nothing.

The NC letter still doesn't get sent. Because your WH is still in contact and doesn't want it to end.

If the letter is NOT ACCECPTABLE to you then tell him WHAT your require him to change and have him rewrite it. Then sign it, then you MAIL it.

But do not threaten. If you say you are going to pack his bags if he does not do "this" by 2:00 pm, then start packing the bags at 2:05 pm.

Your little arguement about telling the children? And then he goes in the other room, and you stay put, You should have gone in there after your WH went in there, turned off the telly, asked your children to listen to WHAT daddy has to say, and then SAT DOWN and listened. Made good on your threat.

Otherwise, your just throwing these threats around without the backbone to enforce them. Over and over again.

Your not controlling a recovering spouse, your "controlling" an active wayward spouse. He is deleting the call records and text's, but there are so many, that he misses some.

Time to hand him YOUR PHONE, and you take HIS PHONE. And then you watch what happens. When someone calls for WH, you answer, find out who the caller is and then advise them of WH new number. You will find that WH is getting MORE calls/TMs than you thought.

Yes, the OW was "FUN and GAMES". But he left her, didn't he? And now he's back.

Let him KNOW what your boundaries are. And what you REQUIRE, and your timelines for that. And if he agrees to do something by Tuesday, then by golly, on Tuesday, enforce your THREAT. Make sure HE KNOWS what the enforcement action is, and then YOU ENFORCE it.

He's still cake-eating. But you keep putting the cake out there.

LG

1. Men do not like to feel "controlled". Frankly, I think your WH is being an idiot - how can he think that your are controlling him when he has spent the last 2 years living with some 2 bit Ho and running his business into the ground? But, still, I know that men do not like to feel controlled. It takes away from their mojo.

2. My new H and I wnet for counseling for a few months, early in our M, to make sure we were starting out right. One of the things the counselor said that has really helpd me, is that we both need to remember to always look at things from the others persons perspective - to have empathy. It sounds like you are trying to do that, and encouraging him to do the same.

As a woman, I agree with your thoughts that OW would read this letter and feel like "he did not say out fo love for his W, so he does not have love for her". But if I step back for a minute and look at this from his eyes - I really think he is trying. And you may need to give him a little bit of space here. After all, she will get the letter. it will be in his hand writing.

I would like to see you gain some confidence in yourself. I think you are still walking around on eggshells, which is probably wearing you out. You need to keep your energy up. so try to put your life in persepective. You DID manage to take care of yourself and your girls for two years!! Pat yourself on the back. It was not awlays fun, but you did it.

You have fought for your M, and you are winning that battle.
You still have good friends, your DD is still dancing. You have a lot to be proud of. Meanwhile, your WH has very little to be proud of. With your help, he can recover his M, his relationship with his girls, and his self pride. But for right now, he is about as low as a man can go. Try to keep your conversations light, try to maintain some fun, some humor around the house. I am not suggesting that you let him off easy, or avoid conflict. Not at all!

But what I am suggesting is something like this:

You hand him a pen and paper, and the SAA book. "here you are sweetheart. I am going to go make desert, let me know when you are done." Later, you go into the room and he is being overly dramatic, head in hands. you say "Well done then! Lets put that aside for now, and have desert. Would you like to watch a movie?"
then, you call the girls into the room and have a nice evening together.
And you move along as if he never did that stupid, overly dramatic head in his hands crap.

Next morning you say something like "All right love, would you like to make any changes to your letter, or shall I send it out as it is?" Again, ignore his drama.

Have confidence in yourself. you have done a great job. Any man would be proud to call you his wife. This man WILL treat you with respect. He WILL love you properly. or he will go away. Do not threaten him. Do not suggest that you will pack his bags. Just act "as if" eerything were good. Act as if he gets it. Act as if he is the man he should be. Don't send a text that says "I will be the W you deserve." Instead, send a text that says "Love you! Hope you are having a great day!!!' Be light. Be cheery. Be loving. Live the life you want to live. And he will either join you in that life, or go away.

Ok, I have lots to digest here!

Concerning the NC letter - WH wrote it, I have it but haven't (as yet) asked him to change anything. Not sure if I should or not now, I still think OW will pick up on the fact that WH didn't put "out of love for my wife" but as F26 said, maybe I should just be glad that WH has written the letter .
It is just awaiting WH's signature and then I shall mail it - I will be happy when this is done and dusted and it's no longer an issue.

LG, thankyou for your advice, some of it was difficult to read!! I take on board what you said about not following up "threats". I didn't mean to threaten WH, I just stated it in a calm fashion but I can see how WH would have perceived it that way. In fact his words were "you are blackmailing me". I did tell WH that it was actually me enforcing a boundary and that he was free to do whatever he pleased.

I am now wondering if he is in fact still actively wayward. I suggested to WH that we swap phones and he was totally against this. Also last night as I was going through WH's phone I remembered the name of one of OW's friends so checked to see if she was listed among WH's contacts. Well, she was, so I said to WH "*** is listed here, I take it it is OW's friend, you won't mind if I delete it will you?". WH answered with "I don't like the fact that you are now going through all my contacts - I haven't spoken to *** for months". Well, if that's true it shouldn't be a problem then so I deleted it anyway.

But this attitude is worrying me. WH claims that I make him feel like a criminal and he doesn't like the fact that he has been "packed in a box" with all the other adulterers out there. Of course, he thinks his situation is different! :RollieEyes:

WoF, I'm finding it difficult to not control WH versus stating my boundaries. I start off saying things in a loving, respectful way but then WH will say something that completely disregards my feelings and I just think "whats the point, why am I putting myself through this?". I'm not good at biting my tongue and walking away and I KNOW this is what I have to do. I need to give myself one of these :twobyfour:!

You are right in that I am walking on eggshells constantly. Although last night I did tell WH that he had hurt my feelings by saying that "OW and you are nothing alike" in a way that obviously meant he still holds her in a higher regard than he does me. I was just reading Lildoggies thread and her WH said almost word for word what my WH says - "OW will not contact me, all she ever did was love and support me, she is a kind person". WTF?!! When will the fog lift? I don't know how long I will be able to do this if WH persists in his attitude that OW is blameless and we would have split up with or without her involvment.

Somebody give me a kick and remind me why I am doing this please as I am on a bit of a downer today

Unfortantly Tarnsy I think that what you hubby is doing is "normal?" for being so recently home, it takes a lot of time.
He is still very foggy and confused.

It took my hubby along time to digest everything and work things out, it took a lot longer then I thought it would take and like your hubby my hubby could never see the FOW as having any faults either, she was just a "very lonely person",, (Guess that's why she had 2 prior affairs w/ married men huh?)

What would happen if after you mailed the NC letter you kinda just dropped the subject, kinda did a combination plan A and 180 degree plan? (but still keep both eyes open) and see how he responds??

Hi F26,

Yes, dropping the subject after mailing the letter is definitely my plan! It can't happen soon enough!

That's probably my problem though, I'm wanting things to happen too quickly. I'm struggling with not having expectations and setting the bar too low - trying to find a happy medium is difficult.

I know it's still VERY early days for the R process but I have been waiting for WH to come home for so long now that I just want to get on with the things we need to do. Unfortunately, WH is not at that point yet. So I guess I just have to do the things that I need to do and hope that WH will come along for the ride until he is ready to actively participate.

I'm just lacking a little motivation today. I'm one of those people who likes to have a little acknowledgement for the things they do and I'm not getting that from WH. But that's one of those expectations that I should try to avoid.

Give it time Tarnsy it will come.

I was very naive when my hubby came home I thought he would come home, we'd pick things up where we left them and never speak of the affair or the seperation again. Yeah well it didn't quite work out that way LOL.

I can remember feeling more lonely with him being back home then I ever did when he was gone. This is going to hard but, I believe it will be worth it.

Even if your hubby doesn't come around you know beyound a shadow of a doubt that you did everything you could to save your marriage. But hey your hubby is already doing better then my did, mine would never send a NC letter!! (He later on told her to stop calling, but that's another story LOL)

I worry that he is still a WH as well. His reaction to you deleteing a contact from his phone is disturbing. I would certaily be watchful of that sort of behavior

You said something earlier that I want to address - something about how you find it hard to just be quiet and walk away. I want to make sure I am not giving you the wrong impressions. You should not avoid conflict. If he says something hurtfull to you, you should not just walk away, stuff your feelings down inside, and pretend it never happened.

I guess what I am trying to say is this:
gain your self confidence back, so that you truly feel like "I would like for him to stay. I would like to recover our M, but if I can't do it, then he can leave. I will be fine"
You need to get to that point, so that you are not feeling emotional, or clingy. I hate for you to put too much meaning into every little thing he says or does. Try not to over-analyze every thing.

If he says something mean, like comparing you to OW, then I would tell him so. Don;t yell, or scream, or pout. Just tell him in a matter-of-fact manner: "H, when you said ___ about OW, it really hurt my feelings. It made me feel as if you were comparing me to her, and you were saying that she was better. My feelings are still very raw right now, and I just would appreciate it if you would be careful to not say such things to me."
and then drop it. Go about your day.

don't avoid the conflict - address it. But address it in a matter of fact,adult manner. And then move onto soemthing else.

Your feelings are importnat. They matter. But address them in a calm way.

I was thinking more anout the NC letter. You say that OW will pick up on the part he left out, about working on his M out of love for his W. I guess my question about that is: So what? what if she does pick up on that? What if she reads the letter and instantly says "Aha! he loves his children but only respects his wife!"
What do you think will happen then?

Thx F26,

It's reassuring to know that my WH is fairly typical. I know that it is said here all the time but you can get so entrenched in what they are doing/saying that you forget that it's the "fog babble" talking - where is Orchid these days anyway?

WoF, I did tell WH last night that he had hurt my feelings when he made his comment about me and OW being "nothing alike" and to give him his due, he did try to hug me later and said "lets not argue". An "I'm sorry" would have been nicer but at least he tried.


I guess what I am worrying about is that this will give her the green light to make C and tell him that if he doesn't love me then he should go back to her. I know it's something that could happen anyway but I don't want to give her any unnecessary temptation!

how did he end up breaking things offf with her?

I was reading back through your thread, and just realized that we do not have that part of the story.
you say that he lived with his brother for ahwile becuase she was still working with him 2 days a week "so it would be impossible for him to move back home right now" But that is jsut bull shi!. YOUR H could not move back home with you, after he dumped the Ho, because she was still working with him 2 days a week! so he tried to hide the fact that he was doing the right thing and returning to his wife?

I feel like I may not be giving out the best advice to you right now - perhaps someone else can jump in here.

On the one hand, I know that he is going through withdrawl and the two of you are still trying to get into a proper recovery. But I think you may be ignoring too many red flags and saying it is just part of the transition into recovery.

He was saying that it was over and she would never try to contact him anyway, so he did not feel the need to write the NC letter - but how did it actaully end? who said the words? What makes him so sure she would not try to contact him?

Is there any reason to believe that she would want to give him the geen light again? After all, I can imagine that their R ended badly. He was broke, stressed about his failing business, and missing his wife and children. I don't think he was much fun for her this past year......

Aloha Tarnsy,

Guess my ears were 'itchin' The search tool on MB hasn't been working for a while so the fact that I caught your reference is well.... kinda amazing.

Seems like your Xws isn't making you feel safe, eh? I recall feeling the same. For me that happened several times. It does get old and eventually I was strong enough to not only expect but require more than just 'having my H back'. When my Xws thought I would settle for his return in the flesh but not in the mind, heart and soul (including his emotional and financial sides along with his spiritual R w/God), then he realized he wasn't going to get the good H status until he did.

That has been a long struggle for him since the WS virus doesn't let go as easy as we would like it to have been.

To help me combat his Xws attitude and keep my family afloat emotionally, I learned to make H responsible for his recovery and mine. I had done and continued to be supportive but it became limited to being supportive for his H side not the Xws side. The line had to be clearly drawn and enforced.

So it meant me doing less and him doing more. I expected him to resist to a degree but did not let him forget his responsibility to make his family feel safe around him. No slack was cut for the Xws but support was readily given to H. Eventually he learned being an Xws was not a good thing. It took a while and really taxed my patience but it is paying off.

So I recommend you don't let him intimidate you. Instead, learn your personal and marital boundaries and implement them. Take his threats and throw it back in his Xws face. If he is a WS, all the more reason to give him back his guilt.

Remember reverse babble? Practice it and use it. You don't need to be walking on eggs. You and your family needs to be able to feel comfortable in your home. It belongs to your family and no one has the right to make you feel unsafe.

Hope this helps.

Take care,
Orchid

I don't know all the details, all I can tell you is what WH told me and who knows how much of that is true. WH wanted to break things off back in March but OW's mother was on her death bed so he felt that he couldn't end it at that time. OW's mother died in April (I think) and - yet again - WH couldn't bring himself to end the R. OW had yet another family bereavement weeks later. Just to add that WH didn't not go to any of the funerals with OW.

At the beginning of July, I had tickets to take DD's to a "Britains Got Talent" show in London and WH offered to drive us there to save on train fares. We had a great family day out and WH admitted that he had not told OW that I would be going, she thought it would be just WH and DD's. WH had the mickey taken out of him by DD14 and myself about not telling his girlfriend that he was out with his wife - all in good fun.

Anyway, WH fessed up the next day. OW asked WH "how do you think that makes me feel?" - ha! about time the tables were turned!!

A few days later WH had to fly to Ireland, during one of our convo's he told me that "everything was in place". I think basically what he did was to make OW question his commitment and going away gave her time to think about that.

WH told me that he had basically got to the point where he knew that he could never give her the commitment that she wanted - marriage, kids the whole caboodle - as he felt that he would never be able to break away from me completely. WH also said that he never loved her the way he had me and that he knew that at some point she would ask him to give DD's an ultimatum (as DD's only met her once and had no interest in repeating that) and he felt that he had done more than enough harm to DD's already.

Basically WH manipulated the sitch so that OW was forced to ask WH if he would be willing to give her what she wanted to which WH stated that he couldn't/wouldn't. So according to WH the A ended mutually. Probably not the best way for the A to end but you can't have everything can you?


To clear this up - it was me that told WH that he couldn't come home while OW was still working for him. I knew that I wouldn't be able to live with him while he was still having C with her. This was my boundary. Whether OW knew that he was coming home, I don't know but I'm guessing that she would have sussed that out for herself.


Apparently, she told WH that she "doesn't go back". And that if WH finds himself unhappy again in 6mths time not to bother going back to her as that door will be closed. Also she told WH that she will be going to Dubai in Sept/Oct to see about settling over there. Not far enough away if you ask me lol!

When WH told me that I told him to tell her to be careful over there as "don't they stone women to death for sleeping with M men over there?!"

I too am unsure if I am giving WH the benefit of the doubt too much. I am checking that NC is in place but what he does at work is out of my hands. And that is where my fear lies. WH started his EA at work, carried it on during working hours, it was only once I got the ILYBNILWY speech 2 weeks before he left that he did any of the sneaking around stuff that you read about here so often. And that is another reason as to why WH doesn't think that he fits into the mould of a typical WH :RollieEyes:.

Hello Orchid,

It's good to see you back. I hope that life has been treating you well.


Yeah, this is it exactly.


How do I make WH responsible for his own R? Maybe I'm being dumb but I have no clue how to do this. And then I wonder if it's still too early to expect WH to do this, it's not yet a month since WH returned. What should I be expecting (apart from NC) WH to do at this point - if anything at all?

WH is skeptical to say the least about the MB principles. Initially he started to read SAA but has not looked at it for a couple of weeks. We have done his part of the EN Q but not mine, he knows my no1 need is Af but that is it and TBH I'm not seeing alot of that even though when he does try I do make sure that I let him know that it is appreciated. And WH does not agree with me posting here. I think he see's that it has helped me but he also thinks that it is just psycho-babble and that every sitch is different so how can a "one-size fits all" plan help. I think a lot of it is WH's dislike of being told what to do - especially when it's me doing the telling - and the fact that he still hasn't got to the point where he realises that he made a HUGE mistake and he needs to do something to try to rectify things.

I'm worried that my LB is gonna be empty before WH steps up to the plate.

Tarnsy

Nothing much to say today. Had a pretty good w/end, just normal family stuff. WH done some domestic stuff for the first time since he came home which I think is a good sign. He was always pretty good around the house before the A.

I'm not too bad, a little sad today as it is/was/should be(?) our 18th wedding anniversary. I told WH that I don't want to mark it in anyway as I don't feel there is alot to celebrate. Am tempted to watch our wedding video but know that would only succeed in making me more depressed .

Hi there,

I am feeling somewhat distressed at the moment as I have just discovered that SIL has added OW to her friends list on facebook.

I have previously had the convo with WH about his family having C with the OW and his response was that I can't tell poeople who they can be friends with. I have the added complication that SIL is the point of C for OW concerning the money that WH and his business owe her.

So, should I confront SIL directly about this or should I ask WH to step up and show that he is willing to do something to help make me feel safe? And if he won't, then what? I should probably add that WH has always had an issue with standing up to his family and their opinion has often been more important to him than mine in past.

Looking forward to hearing any advice.

WOW no advice just hugs, that would upset me too.. I don't know what your hubby can do about it, he can't make his sister take it down, I still think it was a pretty crapping thing for your SIL to do. What is your relationship with your SIL? And how about with his family?

Hi F26,

Thx for the hug, I need it today.

Won't be able to bring up the facebook sitch with WH tonight. He came home from work very depressed and has had to go back to the office. Basically his business is teetering on the edge and he could have to fold. WH and his brother have been borrowing from Peter to pay Paul and now things are catching up with them.

Funny thing is (well, not funny really) but SIL has just taken over from OW as financial controller so I'm sitting here thinking what a terrible job OW must have been doing and can't say anything about it as I know WH will just defend her. Who knows, it could even be her "parting shot" at WH.

Anyway, my R with SIL used to be good. Unfortunately the day I got the ILYBNILWY speech was the day she gave birth to a 3mth early baby - who is absolutely fine now btw. She had more than enough to deal with at that time so I couldn't speak to her.

I used to say that WH's family were like a cross between the Waltons and the Mafia! Blood is definitely thicker than water with them. During the A I had 1 phone call from WH's older sister, a few visits from his younger sis - with the prem baby and heard nothing from his brothers. I tried to keep in contact with the "outlaws", visited WH's mum on her birthday and invited FIL round for coffee on the few occasions he gave DD's a lift but he always said no. And have heard nothing from any of them in the month that WH has been home.

During WH's A, people who knew the family would ALWAYS say to me, "well at least you haven't got to deal with the family anymore!" I don't know how to describe them as a whole, I don't know anyone else like them!

One way or another, they all enabled WH's A and this is something that I am finding hard to forgive but that's for another time. WH and DD's are my priority, I have to get "US" back on track before I can think about them.

Hi Tarnsy,

You wrote : [/i] Funny thing is (well, not funny really) but SIL has just taken over from OW as financial controller so I'm sitting here thinking what a terrible job OW must have been doing and can't say anything about it as I know WH will just defend her. Who knows, it could even be her "parting shot" at WH.

You know in a odd way this may be a good thing if it was her "parting shot" or if she did run the company finances into the ground it may help remove the veil from your hubby's eyes so to speak, he may see her as she really is.

I really hope your hubby can turn his business around, but, it will be no thanks to her and that is a good thing.

And you are right your main concern is your family,, your DD's and hubby.

F26

sorry to come into this a couple of days late'

In my opinion, I would jsut ignore the FAcebook thing for now. His ister is an idiot for having OW as a frind ont ehre - but that is not your WH's fault.

I would imagine that if you confronted her about it, she would say something stupid like "I am just trying to keep track of her! I am going to pretend to be her friend, just so I know what she is up to" and that would just make you mad too, so I would just stay away from that SIL for now.

and I would not confront WH about your SIL's friend list right now either. it sounds like your WH has got so way too msuh tress right now.

That is just my opionion, others may disagree with me. But your WH sounds like he is at his breaking point, and doesn't need to hear about how stupid his sister is just yet.

What about the NC letter? What happened with that?

Hang in there Tarnsy.

Hi WoF5,


I am glad you said that. I completely agree, WH said today in an email that he feels like crawling into a dark place and crying. I'm pretty sure that it is mostly because of the stress he is under with his business but there is probably some W in there as well. I do not want to pressure him further - I am just doing my best to support him and to make life at home as comfortable and stress free as possible.


Well, I have it, still unchanged but I haven't asked him to alter it for the same reason as above. I haven't forgotten about it and will broach the subject with WH on Sunday as we are going to an all day pool party on Saturday which will hopefully raise WH's spirits a little. He may be a little more receptive then.

This trouble with the business couldn't have come at a worse time. It is obvious that WH is depressed so I feel unable to talk about any R issues with him, he has so much on his plate at the moment that I don't want to add to his worries. Also, who knows how long all this is going to go on for, at the mo there is no light at the end of the tunnel. I'm sure WH would have been more on board by now if it wasn't for this.

Be very, very careful here. Do not make excuses for him. You can love him, and support him. but do not make excuses for him.

a couple fo things to consider:

1. The problems with his business did not just come at a bad time. This trouble is the result of his A. While he was in the middle of his A, he was acting like an insane person to you, and I am sure he was not taking care of his business very well. So you can be sympathetic to him, and I certainly would not tell him that this is all his fault - but I am afrid that this really is all his fault. and I think he knows that. He made some really bad choices in his life, and it effects everything. There is a ripple effect here. so let him figure this stuff out, and work himself out of the pit.

2. If this business fails, it will be a huge blow to his ego. But it would not be such a bad thing. If it finally goes under, you two will finally be free to move away from that mess. You certainly would not do anything to encourage the failure of the buiness - but I would not spend much time worrying about it.

I think right now your hubby is seeing that all his chickens have come home to rooste as they say.

He does sound depressed, and right now I think you need to love him and support him, he knows he screwed up, he knows that he is the one that created this mess and he needs to clean it up.

I would say that right now is a critical time for both of you, and it always seemed unfair to me that we the BS have to be the strong ones and be the ones to hold it together, but that is the way it seems to be.

I don't know if I am expressing what I want to say in the right way but here goes what I think,, Now you have to be stronger then ever, you have to show your husband unconditional love, you have to be there for him and be the one person he can lean on, be the light house so to speak...

Tarnsy!!! we need an update.
How are you doing my friend!

Bump for Tarnsy,,, where are you girl? I miss you

Sorry WoF and F26!

Have lurked a couple of times and must have missed your posts as I only tend to look at the first page! That will teach me! lol.

Not a lot is happening here, at least not with R, just plodding along. Unfortunately WH's business folded this week so he has been busy sorting out things. The good news is that WH and his other siblings are going to start all over again having learnt from past mistakes. I keep hearing how most entrepreneurs (sp?) have at least one failed business behind them! So hopefully WH will achieve the success he deserves as I can't fault his work ethic, even whilst in the midst of the fog!

I can't say much at the mo as WH is hovering around so will update in the week.

I will say tho that he is in the middle of preparing us all a lovely dinner and then DD's are both out at different events for the evening. WH suggested that we celebrate his coming home tonight (better late then never!) and brought home a bottle of champagne left over from his company's showroom opening which we shall enjoy with some (pretend) caviar and stawberries and cream!

Have had a couple of down days this week but will tell you about those when there is no one else around!

Thx for your concern!

Hi Tarnsy I am glsd you are doing ok,, sorry to hear about the business closing but like you said perhaps they can build anew.

Sound like hubby is at least trying,, champaine and strawberries!!!

F-26

Hi F26,

Sorry for not updating sooner but have had trouble getting an internet connection ever since our new greyhound decided to chew through a cable when we were all out the other day!

Well I will try to remember what I was referring to in my last post - btw, dinner and champagne and strawberries was lovely and was made better by the SF that followed! Anyway, I think what was bothering me was thoughts of OW. During the A she never really took up alot of my thoughts but since WH has returned I find myself wondering if WH is comparing me to her in everything I do. I think it started when WH were having a talk sometime ago and he said something along the lines of "you and OW are nothing alike". I'm sure that he still only see's her good points - whatever they maybe - and can't recognise that she played any part in the breakup of our M. WH is still convinced that we would have split up anyway. I know that I can't educate him about this but I feel that we won't be able to begin to R unless he can accept her part in it. Any advice on how to get over this stumbling block would be much appreciated.

I had a bit of a meltdown last Sunday. I was premenstrual so that didn't help and there was an incident with DD9 that upset me and was the straw that broke the camels back. I ended up going upstairs to my room for a good cry, something I haven't done for about a year, but couldn't stop when I realised that WH wasn't coming to see if I was ok. I was really feeling fed up and was ready to just give up and tell WH to leave but I just got it out of my system and kept quiet.

I did tell WH that it upset me that he didn't come to ask if I was ok and that a cuddle would have helped at that point, I shall just have to wait and see if he took it onboard if and when there is a next time.

Another reason I am wondering if this is going to work is that because WH's business has collapsed and the subsequent decision by WH and his siblings to start another business is that WH now has even less time to devote to our R. I knew that most of the work would fall to me but it seems that WH has so much to do and will have for a long time to come that by the time he does engage in this I will have given up. I keep asking myself if I have the energy or the patience to hang around.

On a good note, WH and I started a beginners class in Ballroom dancing last week, we had our second class last night. I have been dancing since I was 13 and had often asked WH to join me but he always had an excuse not to. Funnily enough, he seems to be a natural and is enjoying the experience. It is good as you get to be up close together, have a laugh and work up a bit of a sweat. Plus, it gives me hope that WH is at least willing to do something that he never would before and I have to keep reminding myself that he is making an effort in some areas.

We also went to see a film together (does that count for UA time?) as our eldest turned 15 last week and had a few friends here for a sleepover and we wanted to give them some space and show that we trusted DD15 to not wreck the house lol! We stopped off at a bar on the way home but for some reason I couldn't relax. I think it's because I'm always on the lookout for OW, wondering if we are going to bump into her or one of her friends. I hate that I can't relax and enjoy myself when I am out my H because of that b*&@$!! I hope she is still planning to go to Dubai, my head will be in a better place with a few thousand miles between us.

Oh and WH really annoyed me at one point when we were out. We had just walked into the pub and went straight to the bar. WH ordered our drinks and the barmaid said "hello D*****, how are you?". WH just replied with fine thanks and no more was said. When we moved away from the bar I asked WH who she was and he said she was a girlfriend from his school days. Thats fine but I had to ask WH why didn't you introduce your wife then? His answer was sorry, I didn't think. WTF!! How does he think I am ever going to feel secure with him if he doesn't even do something as simple as introduce me? Doesn't he get that if he speaks to someone I don't know that I am going to be wondering who the h3ll they are? He has had nearly 2 years of living a completely separate life to mine and has probably met lots of OW's friends and family, I need to know as soon as we meet someone who they are and where he knows them from.

I am getting angry just writing this all out, and this is just the start of R! Man, I really don't know if I am willing or able to put myself through this. Being on my own for so long has made me a little selfish I think, it was definitely a much simpler, easier life. In R I have to think about WH in everything I do but it seems that WH doesn't have to do the same.

Sorry for the rant, I needed to get that off my chest. I'd better sign off as my connection is very weak.

Thx

Hi Tarnsy,, Glad your back,, I had a grey hound about 30 years ago (Man I'm getting old LOL). He was a retired racer and I adopted him. I can still remember how he never could use the stairs right.

I think what you are going through is pretty normal(unfortantly).

I went through the same things. It was like the OW was under every rock and behind every tree. Even now when we go to the area where FOW lives and works I have to really make a consious effort not to look for her.

The thought of him comparing me to her in everything drove me crazy. I felt as like I had to be perfect all the time, that if I screwed up in the least he would go back. It was nuts.

I found going to IC really helped me and also my therapist felt I was obessive in my thought process (can't imagine why? LOL) so he put me on AD's and that has helped me alot.

I think you and you hubby are doing pretty well, the dance class is awesome. You guys are going out together and that's great.

It going to take a lot of time for you both to heal and to reconnect. I do know how you feel about wondering if it is even worth it and if you are strong enough to do it. I can remember at one time looking at him sitting on the couch watching TV and thinking "I waited eight months for that".

You know like everyone says there are going to be good days and bad but I found that the good out weighed the bad so I stayed and just kept keeping on and today almost 4.5 years later I am very glad I did, he is my best friend and I love him so much.

One thing you seem to have in your favor that I did not for along time is your hubby has cut his ties with the FOW, mine sat on the fence for along time until I finally had enough and quit being such a chicken poop, and stood up to him. (It wasn't physical, occassional phone calls etc on her end and he would't put a stop to it, didn't want to hurt her WTF? )

How are you DD's ajusting to dad being home?

Anyway enough rambling, please keep us posted F-26

Hi F26,

Our greyhound is a retired racer. I got her for DD's 9th birthday as she had been asking for another dog for months but as I am home a lot she has become my shadow. Unfortunately she has started to suffer with separation anxiety whenever I go out so I always come home to a puddle or two and something chewed to shreds! We are planning to get her a cage as this is supposed to help cure the problem but I can't help feeling a little a cruel at the thought of having to lock her up!


This is exactly how I feel! Probably irrational and definitely not healthy but how do you get over this?

WH and I were watching a programme last night about a real family that had cameras in the house watching their every move and in it there was an issue with one of the teenage D's that caused an arguement between the Mum and Dad. I mentioned that we have yet to go through those sort of things with our DD's and that I was scared that if/when it happened WH would say "is this what I've come home to?". I know - it's a dj - but to be fair, WH has already said this when DD's were acting out.

I guess what it boils down to is that I no longer feel safe that WH will be here come what may, that the normal things that all families go through will be enough for him to throw in the towel.


Overall the girls have adjusted really well to their dad being home, in fact it's almost like he's never been away until he asks them to do something that they don't want to and then there can be a comment along the lines of "it was better when you weren't here". I have addressed this with DD's and told them that it's hurtful to both WH and myself for them to say those sort of things. WH has always been the stricter parent and DD15 especially was concerned that WH would be always on at her to clean her room, do homework, make her go to bed early but he hasn't been around enough for it to be an issue although that could change of course!

It is WH's birthday today and I am finding it a bit of a trigger as last year was his 40th and he spent this "milestone" birthday with OW. I can't help feeling sad that I wasn't able to spend that special day with him plus I know that the ho took him to see a West End show - Fiddler on the Roof - probably his favourite - and paid for them to spend the night in a top London hotel. I cannot compete with that. He will have to make do with the DVD boxset of one of his favourite TV series. Hey, at least I know he doen't want me for my money!

We have a wedding to go to tomorrow, the girls are having the day off school as we are invited to the whole ceremony but WH is only invited to the evening reception as we were still separated when the invitations went out. It will be a little weird as it is at the same hotel were WH and I had our wedding reception and spent our wedding night. It has changed alot in the 18 years since then but I'm sure it will bring back alot of memories - good ones hopefully!

This is getting a bit long (again!) but I must just add that I am still finding it difficult to do this when all WH's time and energy is focused on the foreclosing of his business and the start up of the new company. I know he is stressed about these things and that they have to be done, but as I said to WH last night, I'm concerned that by the time he has the time/energy/inclination to participate in R and do the things we need to do, I will be long gone.

We went to bed after this convo and WH initiated SF. Is that his way of showing love although he still doesn't feel it, or is he using SF to keep me quiet? I just don't know his motivations for anything anymore.

Thx F26 for keeping up with me and taking the time to read my long winded posts. I put it all here as no-one IRL can really understand why I am willing to try again with WH.

Tarnsy

Hey Tarnsey,, first (((hugs my friend)))

I guess what it boils down to is that I no longer feel safe that WH will be here come what may, that the normal things that all families go through will be enough for him to throw in the towel.

I still feel that way sometimes, granted less now then early on, but, that old " It's you and me agaist the world baby, no matter what" is gone. Perhaps there never was any certainty before and it was an illusion, but darn I believed in it and perhaps for me that is the saddest thing in all of this is that the innocence is gone, it has been shattered and can you get that back??

Oh don't get me wrong my marriage today is soooo much better then it has been in forever, and I really like the person I have become and I like the person hubby has become, but it came at a high price.

IMVHO I think right now you just have to supportive of your husband in his business dealings and try to be his friend, his sounding board, his soft place to land and then I think R will come.

As far the SF, in my case that is my hubbies biggest love language, being physical and perhaps your FWH is the same. I feel he is trying to reconnect with you. I think it may be his way of reassuring you.

I am glad the girls are doing good.

And ps about the cage, again just my opinion it is better for the dog to be safely enclosed in a cage while you are not home then for him / her to be destructive and eat something that will make it sick or bite into that lamp cord and get the shock of it's life..

F-26 pss you have no idea how much your post have helped me too.

F26, that means alot to me but I have no idea how!! You, OTH, have given me so much hope that WH and I can R our M and make it better than before. I hope to be in your shoes one day.

I am definitely trying to just support WH in his business activities but I get impatient easily (NOT a good trait of mine!) and it is difficult not to lose hope when WH says that he doesn't have the time to think about "us". I'm sure this is true and I need to remind WH that I need him to check in with me during the day not just to let me know that he is going to be late, but to tell me that he is thinking of me.

I think part of it is that he works with both of his Bro's and knowing them they would make some snidey remark about "checking in with the wife". I could be wrong but WH has always been concerned about his families opinion on all kinds of things.

As for the SF, I hope you are right that this is WH's main love language. I will have to look out for that book as I have seen it mentioned here before.

I will take your advice about the cage, I guess we were lucky that she didn't hurt herself when she chewed thru the cable the other day, altho she hasn't been here long she would be more sorely missed as she is so affectionate, if a bit stupid!!lol

Tarnsy,I've followed your story with much interest as my WH started his affair in Nov '06 and moved out Dec....he is still with OW and he has filed for divorce though.My question to you is...did your husband worry about what your family and friends would think of him and how he would be able to face them again when he came back home..?

Hi H&P,

Sorry to hear that your WH has filed, I remember seeing your story when I first came here, I will have to catch up.

In answer to your question, I really will have to ask WH. From my POV tho, I don't think he gave it much thought but I could be wrong. I say that because I asked WH to apologise to my parents a couple of days ago and he asked "what for?"!!!

We had just watched the infidelity video here on this site (I don't think it made much of an impact on WH)and we talked about it for a bit. When he asked what he had to apologise for I replied that he had nearly destroyed their daughter and had caused the breakup of their grandchildrens family and they had been there to pick up the pieces. I asked him how he would feel if his D's husband had done what he had done, would he not be upset and angry with the WS? This was the first time that I saw a light go on in WH's head, what I had said obviuosly had some sort of effect, in fact, he then said "I'm gonna go and have a shower, my head has turned to mush".

We haven't spoken about it since, too many work issues going on for WH at the mo but I will definitely ask WH if he had any concerns about how my family would react to his return. He only really has my parents to worry about tho as I am an only child so no siblings to drag him over the coals lol! It was WH's b/day yesterday and he received cards from all my aunties and my nan so they are a pretty forgiving lot!

Well, must dash, have a wedding to go to and gotta make myself look gorgeous, it takes a while lol!

Hi Tarnsy,, Have fun at the wedding!!! ( I love weddings )


Tarnsy I was thinking about this last night, and I think your hubby is in his own way working on recovery just from a different angle. For example Wife; We need to work on recovery and take care of our family. Husband: I am working on recovery why do think I am busting my butt so hard in my job, starting my business? So that I can take care of my family.

I read some where that men and women tend to deal with emotional issues on a different time table. And in my case I think that is true, I tend to handle emotional issue immediately and want to talk about it, deal with it, find a solution, answer or what ever. While hubby tends to chew on it awhile. Then later on he'll come to me and say I was thinking about this and this is what I think. KWIM?

When my FWH first came home I tryed to push the recovery, tried to get him him to sit down and read books with me, I would try to show him what HE needed to do to help us recover, I tryed to show him how much he had hurt me, how wrong he was about the FOW, stuff like that and with my husband that doesn't work so well. What I found worked better was I started working on me being the best person F 26 could be, I started to take care of me, still worked on meeting his EN's and the like, but became someone I liked. I just had to let it go, I had to stop expecting him to do the things I wanted him to do when I wanted him to do it.

And in his time schedule he did work on the issues, he figured things out and really has done a awesome job in recovery, but he had to see and work it out for himself.

Am I saying don't hold him accountable for doing the right things like keeping NC and making sure he has his boundries set? Absolutly not! All I am saying is sometimes we just need to give them a little space and let them work it out.

I hope this makes sense, anyway have a great weekend I am off for a mini vacation with hubby!!!

Hi Tarnsy,

I am just stopping in to say Hi and let you know that I have been thinking of you. I simply haven't had much time to stop in to MB for the past couple of months.

My 91 year Mother is failing quickly and I fear she will not make it to Christmas when we ahave booked a trip to visit her and my older Brother. And my DD 23 is getting divorced. While I am not surprised, I am sad for her and my GS who will only turn 3 in December. I don't think that infidelity is playing a role here, just immaturity. MY SIL is pretty self obsorbed and never really grew up enough to actually be either a husband or a father and while my DD wanted to try and work things out, he said it was too much trouble. It hasn't helped that the Air Force reassigned him to Monteray California and left DD in South Dakota.

Sorry to have gotten off topic, but I am encouraged to read the updates from you. Yes, it is tough to achieve recovery, and all of us have wondered over and over again whether or not we were wasting our time while in the midst of the process.

I believe that for those of us who finally are recovered, we know it was worth it. I have reached the point that none of it matters to me anymore - it doesn't hurt, it doesn't even make me mad anymore. It is actually sort of like it happened to someone else at this point. It's kind of a relief to look at FWH and not think "you cheating &*(^&*%^$$%#^*(*&*&^%%^$, why did you do this to us?"

Try to keep in mind that what you are experiencing is completely normal....and come here to vent1

Take Care,

Who

Tarnsy,thanks for your reply to my question....so glad for you to have your hubbie back...

I always read your thread,although I am not experienced enough to offer you much advice!!..

Hang in there....

Hi Who,

I'm sorry that you are having to deal with so much at the moment, my thoughts are with you. You have been a wonderful support to me over the months and I know that your family will benefit from your wisdom and compassion.

I hope that your mother is not suffering and although I know it is no consolation, I hope you can take comfort from the fact that she has had a long life.

My heart goes out to your daughter and grandson, whenever a M ends, whatever the circumstances, it is a traumatic time for all involved. I know how important my parents where to me in the beginning of this rollercoaster.

Thx for the comforting words. I have veered towards not caring whether WH and I R or not the last few days but I have tried today to be more positive and so far WH seems to be responding likewise.

It's reassuring to know that it is "normal" to have these feelings. I hope that I can hang in here long enough to finally get to the point where I don't think of the A continually.

H&P, I haven't had a chance to ask WH about his thoughts re my family yet, we have had a tough couple of days, nothing awful just resentment on both out parts and I will admit here that I find it hard to get my head around the fact that WH could possibly have any resentment towards me, after all, I'm the FAITHFUL one, I didn't walk out on my family, leaving my children crying in the street, anything I may have done in the past pales into insignificance compared to his A. But hey, as I keep reading here, his feelings are valid

F26, I hope you and your hubby have a great time. I cannot tell you how much it means to hear that people I have never met take the time to give thought to my particular sitch, you are all amazing!

I may not be able to update for a while, my PC has no internet connection and WH's laptop died completely so am having to borrow from BIL when I can. Hope it won't be too long before I can get here as I definitely feel less positive about things when I can't post/read here

tarnsy

Hi Tarnsy I hope you can get you 'puter up soon or I'll go thru Tarnsy withdraws LOL,, Our trip was great it was so nice to get out of town for awhile and since it was training for him his company paid so even better!!

We went and saw "Fireproof" and it was really good, Hubby and I cryed and hugged thru it. He can be so sweet when he wants to be.

You are doing good girl, keep up the good work and keep your positive attitude, I know how hard it is but it does get better. Remember it is going to take a lot of time, and most of the time it will seem like you are taking one step forward and two back, but keep on, don't give up.

Talk to soon F 26

bump for Tarnsy,,, I know you said you were having computer issues, but still wanted you to know I was thinking of you.

Hi F26 and anyone else keeping up with my thread.

Finally managed to get on the laptop lol! WH brings it home occasionally after work and then there are four of us scrambling to get online!

I don't realy have any news to tell, no break through with WH still, he still doesn't think that he needs to do anything for us to get over the whole A sitch. In fact he said the other day that as "he wasn't as bad as he could have been" ie it was "only" an EA till he left home that he doesn't see the need to apologise. I see this as him still being in the fog but am beginning to wonder if he is ever going to come out of it.

He hasn't even apologised to DD's and still says that "I didn't leave the girls, I left you". As you can imagine this sort of statement really winds me up so I called him on it the other day and when he said it again last week I called the girls into the dining room to ask them how they felt about this. Before they walked in WH raised his voice, got out of his seat and said "[censored] you Tarnsy" and gave me the 2 fingered sign. :RollieEyes: Honestly, it's times like this when I think he's never gonna get it and want to tell him to leave. BTW when asked DD's did say that they felt that WH left them and who can blame them, he did, but he has justified his leaving them by saying that he only left me for so long now that that is what he really believes.

WH business has now closed and he has started again with all his siblings. Now we are facing bankruptcy. And to top it all, I found out that WH put the family home up as security for a variety of loans for the business which he has defaulted on. The home that he was not living in at the time but was still paying the mortgage for, whilst he was living with the ho. How could he be willing to potentially make his DD's homeless, WH may have lost out financially but if he had stayed in his A then he would still have had a home, it would have been me and the girls who would've found ourselves on the street! I never cease to be amazed at the W mindset and how utterly selfish and thoughtless they are. I do wonder if it's too late for WH, maybe he spent too long as a W and the man I married has gone forever, who knows, and I don't know how much longer I am willing to hang around to find out.

I wrote WH a letter a couple of weeks ago telling him how I was feeling and how I was disappointed that many of the things I have asked for - affection, keeping in touch during the day, affection, conversation, affection - haven't materialised. As soon as he read the letter, he immediately began making more of an effort but unfortunately this only lasted for 24 hours! What do I need to do? As you can see from above, my no1 EN is Affection but I am getting very little other than a peck on the lips. (We are having SF still and I have no worries in that dept, in fact, when WH kisses me then it's very passionately!)I have spelt out what I would like him to do, cuddling up on the sofa, holding hands if we're out, a little slap on the butt . I tried to do these things to WH for the first 6 weeks or so that he came home but got so fed up of not getting anything back that I stopped, not deliberately but I began to feel awkward doing any of those things and yes, I have told WH this. Should I take the initiative on this and hope that WH will reciprocate in a similar manner or should I withhold A in the hope that WH will realise that something is missing that we used to enjoy?

On the whole, I think that the fact that we cannot spend much time together alone has had a detrimental effect on our R. WH is working all day during the week and often during the evenings and also has been putting in the hours at the weekends. We missed our dancing class 3 weeks running as for 2 of those weeks WH had hurt his back and then I had to take DD15 to London for a concert. We managed to get there this week and WH agreed that it made a difference to how we both felt and reacted towards each other so we both know that we need to spend the time together to make this work.

Well, I'm sure that there is much more I should have recounted here but TBH I can't remember at the mo! Not being able to post as and when things happen is not helpful! Don't know when I will be able to get the computer fixed as last week my oven decided it couldn't cook anymore and just this morning my washing machine leaked all over the kitchen floor! Unfortunately, I can't afford to get everything sorted out as quickly as I would like so please bear with me if I don't post again for a while.

Thanx for listening to me rant!

Tarnsy I know others have said it, but it takes time, a lot of time.

I really don't have any advice to give.

Yes you guys need to make spending time together a priority, if he can't dance maybe a walk or a car ride, just so you can be alone.

As far as the kids go, my hubby feels the same way and still has not addressed anything with them. Yes my kids are way older then your girls, but it still affected them, 'specially my daughter who was living at home at the time. Her relationship with her father is still no where near what it us to be. It is sad but in my case I feel that they have to work it out and I hope they do.

I hope that things work out that you will not lose your home on top of everything else.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many of the WS's don't think about the long term ripple effects their actions cause.

You really are doing good, it's a long road!

F26

Tarnsy, I too check up on your situation regularly....

I sometimes wonder when the W is a man, wether they are scared to dig deep and be truly honest about their feelings....they might not like what they find....

Men are a proud lot.....admitting how selfish etc they have been is difficult.....
That said its by no means an excuse to let them get away with not dealing with these issues..

I often think that counseling,although a good thing, can also open up a can of worms....

Although I would like to recover my marriage I'm petrified of recovery....it seems so hard.....

Well, I am sitting here mad as he;; and shaking like a leaf. Turns out WH has been in contact with the ho, how often I don't know as I haven't been able to check his work emails but I discovered this email moments ago on another email account.

Hi Hun,

would of sent this email to your works address, but I don't have it.

Got to the hotel around 11pm last night, long day. Today went to the hospital with Lou to go through all the necessary details with her surgeon before tomorrows op. We have to be at the hospital by 8am tomorrow morning.

About to have a walk around Brugge, so beautiful here with all the cobble streets and 15 century buildings. Brings back all the good memories of when I lived here. lou staying in the room, for she's fast asleep at the moment. So hay way not lets go and explore.

I didn't mean to be harsh with you yesterday hun, but i meant what I said. For you and I to move forward and talk about our future together. The only way I can take you 100% totally committed to moving on, is for you to move to your parents. The fact that you go back to her and share the same bed makes me very uneasy. The longer you leave it you will lose me.

I don't like telling anyone what to do, but time has gone by and nothing has changed since you said you want me back.

I shall update you on things here through the week.

Huge hugs and a kiss.
The Hoxxxxxxxxxxxx

So they have been talking about getting back together after she apparently told him that she would never take him back. Maybe I should just let her have him, he certainly hasn't been meeting any of my EN's and quite frankly his being home has been a bit of a let down. I guess I didn't raise the bar high enough for his return. Everyone said that the fact that he wouldn't send the NC letter was a huge red flag but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Well, no more.

The question I have to ask myself now is do I even want to give him another chance? If so, should I go back to plan B or just look at this as a stumbling block and give him a list of requirements for recovery?

Please help, I will be able to check in again later, I have a Dr's appt shortly as I have run out of AD's - I had been expecting to tell Dr that I wouldn't need another prescription, guess that has changed now

Oh Tarnsy I am so sorry,, I know how much that hurts.

I found a card from the Fow once about 6 months after he came home that read "I was born to love you", and then she wrote "hurry home to me baby" .

I didn't call him on it, I was too afraid to.

In hindsight I should have confronted him on it, and the phone calls but I didn't. We have since talked about that and I said to him I should of held you a lot more accountable then I did and he agreed with me.

I have no advice for you, I don't understand why or how he can continue with her.

God this make me sick I hope someone out there has some really sage advice for you,, I am so sorry F-26

Hi F26,

yeah, this sucks. I called WH at the office as soon as I found the email. According to him, he first contacted the ho about 3 weeks ago and they have met up once at his old office, tho as he is still obviously W, it has probably been going on for longer than that. WH showed absolutely no shame, guilt or remorse when I confronted him and although he admitted as much as he did, he did say that he hadn't actually told her he wanted to go back to her, she had assumed that part - yeah, whatever!

I just don't know what I want to do. On the one hand I know false recoveries are often expected and par for the course but on the other hand I wonder if it will be worth it in the long run. WH said about himself that he is a shallow person now, that he is not a nice person and a failure - I can't disagree anymore, altho I know he WAS a good person, maybe he just isn't anymore....

F26, I see in your sig that you had many false recoveries. Could you expand on that a little - how long did it take for your H to stop having C? Did he get on board with the MB principles?

Thx tarnsy

Tarnsy I made some big misstakes when hubby first came home,, in my defence I had not found this site until he was home about 18 months, even then he was still in limited contact with her.

He had transferred after about a year of being home so there wasn't anymore physical contact but they would talk via phone or email. Always came up with a good reason why when confronted, her mom was sick, this that or the other, I would get mad he would promise never again and rinse and repeat, this went on way too long!


Almost 2 years ago hubby was acting kinda weird,, like he wanted to tell me something but couldn't anyway my BW senses kicked in and I checked his cell and sure enough she had called him again.

I immediately confronted him about it,, he did the deer in the headlights like "a call from her on my phone,,no I didn't do it".

I went balistic, I almost left him that night I went to the atm machine to draw out as much money as I could and I was gone.

Long story longer bank was down couldn't get any cash anywhere.

So I went home and called the FOW and wanted to know what was going on,, of course that was useless she wouldn't tell me anything just kept saying ask your husband I don't have anything to do with it.

OK that night we had it out, and the next day.

It wasn't until that time that he finally understood why he could have NC ever with her no matter the reason even if he "wasn't doing anything wrong" it had to stop and since that day there has been 3 attemps of contact from her, once she and he ran into each other (we live in a nearby town,, small town)
he immediately called me and told me.

2nd time she called around his birthday he hung up on her as soon as he recognised the voice,, and immediately called me.

3rd and last time a email that cused him out for hanging up on her, again he told me and closed account (I verified account closed)

So to answer your queston about 2.5 years, again misstake on my part I should have never let it go on as long as it did, it nearly destroyed me, here I was going to IC because I couldn't get over "it" and he was still having contact doesn't matter how limited contact was contact period.

So I am the last one to give advise on what to do.

I hope wiser minds speak up F-26

Thx F26,

They really do push us to extremes, don't they. I can't help thinking that WH is pleased that I discovered this as in his mind it will mean that I have good reason to kick him out. Then he can pursue the ho and I will be the bad guy for chucking him out :RollieEyes:

Do I give him what he wants or not? Yes, I want my marriage but at what expense? Hard work doesn't even begin to describe this and can I do it if WH is not onboard with MB?

I have to tell everyone that I told DD's that WH has been in contact with the ho. DD15 was only a little surprised, after all she said to me before WH came home that he would do this to me again! I told them because I was on the verge of telling WH not to come home but wanted to warn DD's first. DD9 was adamant that she doesn't want me to tell WH to leave, DD15 wasn't bothered so much.

Anyway, DD's took the initiative in sending the ho an email!Basically, DD15 called OW many derogatory names and told her to keep away from our family. OW then must have called WH to tell him and WH called me to tell me and DD that we had messed up big time lol!! Tried to explain that if WH hadn't contacted OW in the first place then DD wouldn't have sent the email! Honestly, where do they get off?!

So at the mo, WH just came home to take DD9 swimming, didn't really talk to me but told DD15 that he was horrified and disgusted at the things she said. I was not in the room when he said this and DD only told me after WH had left. I told her that she should have told WH that she is horrified and disgusted at him for what he has done to us and that whatever happens she hasn't done anything wrong. She is entitled to the truth and to her feelings. I can't believe that WH is trying to blame us for whatever happens next. It's like when W's blow up at the BS after exposure, in fact, WH did say to me "you've really f*ucked up now", I take it from that that it will be my fault that this happened and any consequences from it, oh well, tell someone who gives a damn!

Any suggestions anyone for how I play this when WH gets home in about 2 hours? It may not sound like it from this post but I DO WANT my marriage to survive, I just need to know that it will be worth it in the end.

thx tarnsy

Doesn't that just slay you he's more upset by what the DD said to OW then what he did. It's rich,,

although Tarnsy if you can maybe try to buffer the girls from what your H is doing for right now, I understand why you told them in case you or he decided that he should leave, but still I think if you can let this be handled between you and him KWIM?

Hi Tarnsy,

I've followed your thread and I'm sorry for your discovery. I know your devastation during my 4 D-Days.

While it's too late to try to resurrect the red-flag because he would not send the NC letter, it might be good have that (NC letter) be the minimum to giving him another chance.

Another poster mgolfer1971 is just experiencing his first devastation day and if you haven't, please check out his thread. He is seeking info and acting with strength and convictions and it seems that his WW is/will respond. I wish I had his resources from here on MB when I was fumbling through discovery/confrontation/withdrawal.

You've been in Plan B so you know what it's like to be on your own and you said things were almost better before he came home.

After 4 D-Days (not sure how many you've had) my WH was willing to do anything to help me heal. We were able to get away for a 10 day vacation immediately after D-Day #4 and WH proved that he was willing to follow through on his promise.

What is your WH willing to do? What is the least you'll accept? If there is more remorse for 'getting caught' than he shows for 'violating you and his family', I don't think I could continue if I were you. (But that's just me, not sure about you.)

Again, sorry for your pain Tarnsy. We'll support you in what you choose.

Best wishes,
Ace

F26, I know what you mean but I have been honest with the girls right from the start. They have had the misfortune of having to meet the ho and neither of them liked her. I have tried to always state things in a calm, non-judgemental way but I did make it clear to DD's that it was WH's A that destroyed our family, not anything I or they had done before that. As such they blame her for WH leaving as opposed to blaming WH which would only be another problem we would have to deal with in R. I hope that they don't have to deal with anymore heartache.

Ace, thx for taking the time to reply, I remember you posting to me before. I hope that I don't have 4 d-days!! How did you cope with so much betrayal? This is my 3rd and hopefully my last! We had a very brief false recovery 6mths into this which was when I found this site. It was 2 years yesterday since I got the "I don't love you anymore and I haven't for years" speech. WH left 2 weeks later and I found out about the ho about 1 week later.

WH has just returned and is in a VERY bad mood. He is still blaming me for intercepting his email and for DD's honest response to OW. I am ashamed to say that I haven't been able to avoid an AO or 2. I can't contain my anger at WH for putting us through this again and for putting the blame onto an upset and disappointed teenager. I wonder if being honest is worth the pain.

Well, it's not looking good. WH has told DD's that he doesn't love me (again) and thinks that they will accept this as a good enough reason for him leaving again. He has told them that the reason he doesn't love me is because I am not working at the moment - I have been job hunting and have applied a few times and put my name down on a few waiting lists but even xmas jobs are hard to come by. I think this is just a convenient excuse, he can't think of anything else that I have/have not done and can't admit - at least to himself - that his actions have caused all this.

I will update tomorrow, have a feeling tonight is going to be an eventful one. Wish me luck.

tarnsy

Ace, did your WH ever show any remorse after your first 3 d-days, this is what I am struggling with, as WH has shown no regrets I wonder if I should just go straight to plan D. And I will check out that thread but as my own R is going so badly, I'm not sure that I have any words of wisdom.

Yes he did show remorse initially. Then he became the model husband, but he was still addicted to the 'high' of the adventure. After D-day #1, he waited a week to start another secret email account, which I discovered within a day.

He was remorseful, but started another secret account within another week, trying to just be friends with OW. It took me a month to find that one (I never looked....I think a little angel told me). He wrote an NC email that we both sent (but OW thought I had written it).

He was still addicted but seeming to be committed to us until D-Day #4 when he was playing their online game looking for her (thank God she had quit playing by then), but several months later, our MC said that the fact that he was actively seeking and lied to me about how many times he played their game (that the history button disputed ~ but he didn't know that) it was as if he had actually reconnected due to his intention.

Your husband seems intent to go to OW and blame you for it.

To me, he does not seem remorseful for anything he's done...only for the fact that he got caught and you've told DD's. (I might not have done that, but in your case it doesn't seem to really matter.)

If I were you, Tarnsy, I would think long and hard before giving him another chance. Here's how I would judge if it was worth it.

He needs to willingly commit to doing everything to help you heal. (NC letter, NC for life, total transparancy, professional MC, etc.)


I did not mention that thread for you to contribute anything...only for you to read how decisive the poster is....and to see that he is getting results it seems because of his decisiveness and willingness to take immediate action. AND he is staying calm...no AOs or LBs. He's in control.

You've been dealing with your WH's behavior for over 2 years ~ way more than I could handle. There's a reason he is getting away with cake-eating (having you AND OW):

Because He Can.

My WH knew that he could not continue living with the fantasy of OW (he had not even reconnected....he was just trying to see if he could resist her if she was still playing that game....he was still addicted to the adventure.)

When he said he'd leave, I told him to go. (Story in my sig line.)

For your situation, I believe that once you allowed him to NOT send the NC letter, it gave him 'permission' to continue feeding his addiction with the convenience of living with you and DDs.

But that's passed. You can spell out the conditions now. If he takes it with enthusiastic effort to do anything and everything to help you heal, I think you have a chance. If he argues and refuses to send an NC letter, if it were me....I'd go to plan D.

You deserve better than this, Tarnsy. I know it will be difficult until you get a job. Are you able to get family help in the meantime (sorry if you've addressed this aspect but I've missed it.)

In my very humble opinion, that's the only way you avoid 4 D-days. What mgolfer1971 is doing should help him avoid any future D-Days, too.

Hope that helps. Sorry for the delay ~ and that I can't post during the daytime.

Ace

My WH has not shown any remorse. Well, actually he did for a while but that was over a year ago. At that time he would often come here and cry about the sitch but then again it was probably more for himself than for me or DD's.

With NC being broken this time, he has not tried to justify it by saying he just wants to be friends with OW, he has not given me any excuse other than to say he had a moment of weakness.


I completely agree with this. It seems that WH is totally unable to see that his actions have consequences for anyone other than himself - that he is the only one hurting and that he is not to blame for any of this.


I wrote a list a few weeks ago of all the things I need for WH to do for me for such a time as this. I think I wrote 10 or 12 things down, including those you suggested. I'm thinking of giving it to WH tonite but I don#t know if he will be very receptive. If he doesn't agree to my list of requirements then I guess it's plan D time.

Last night was not as eventful as I expected, DD's were around till 10.30 (school holidays here) so we didn't have a lot of time to talk. Well, I talked, WH didn't say much. Apparently he has mixed feelings about me which wasn't a big surprise. Altho when I asked him what his feelings for me were I was fully expecting to hear that he was indifferent to me, if he had said that then I would have gone to plan D. WH is being a totally closed book about his feelings, it is like drawing blood!! I ask him questions and he either will not say anything or changes the subject.

It went on like this for about 30 mins, me asking him to explain things, him staring into space. We slept in the same bed but there was a massive gap between us all night.

Well, I have to stop for now, have to go and get the dinner ready but will hopefully be able to add more later

thx everyone

tarnsy

If I could, offer you a different perspective, and possibly by looking at it this way you can make decisions for you and yoiur family...

In my experience, the WS is like an addict. Think of OP as their drug of choice. The addict will become a different person when the y are still 'using'. They will try to control and manipulate the situation to get what they want. They don't care who they hurt to get what they want. They become very selfish and dangerous to be around, because they will destroy whatever is in their life that keeps them from their drug.

From your description this past few weeks (months?) it was clear that he was still 'using'. Yes, an addict goes through a detox and withdrawal phase, but that looks different than what you are describing, which is more of the same hurtful behavior.

So how do you wrest the control out of the addicts hands and back into your hands? Your DD's will have keen insight into what is right or wrong in this situation. They will be able to see clearly about what needs to happen, they are able to see things in more black and white.

How can you protect yourself and your DD's from the destructive path of the addict? How much are you willing to accept?

If this were alcohol or drugs, how long or how much would you accept? And what would you need to see to accept a change?

Because of the occluded nature of an A, we tend to accept too little.

From personal experience with addiction AND an A, I can tell you, you KNOW when the WH has your best interests at heart, and when they don't...your intuition knows what to do, your woman's heart knows what to do, you are fighting against yourself because you don't want to do it...

It's time...

Great insight, SHMI.

Tarnsy, it comes down to decision time and one question I always ask with tough decisions is "which pain would you rather endure?"

You have 2 basic choices with a few variations:

* Go back to Plan B so you can preserve what little love you may have left until he meets ALL of your conditions enthusiastically (or at least willingly at first),

OR

* proceed to plan D.

Again, I ask "which pain would you rather endure?" (OR if you want the positive POV ~ "Which pleasure would you rather pursue?"

Ace

Thx everyone for the replies,

It seems that the general consensus seems to be that I need to go to plan B with a view to plan D.

I can see the sense in that altho plan D may not turn out for the best financially at the mo as it looks as tho WH will be made bankrupt soon. His business closed owing a six figure sum and whilst he was living with the ho he put my house up as collateral for more loans, so I could lose the house whether he is here or not

WH has been wrapped up in the creditors meeting he had to have today so we haven't really talked about anything other than that the last day or two.

I think that I will give WH my list of requirements he needs to fulfill if we are to have any chance of taking this any further and if he won't agree to them then I will ask him to leave altho I am sure he will go straight to the ho as opposed to his parents. But I can take solace in the fact that it will be because I kicked him out rather than it being of his choosing.

If I do ask him to leave I don't know if I will do it as plan B or just go straight to plan D - like I said, my biggest concern is the financial implication of that. It makes me mad that when he left he had a pretty successful business that was on course to earn WH alot of money, now he has nothing but a shed load of debt. Who knows, I may be better off with him gone, I guess I need to speak to a solicitor.

Strangely, I haven't been upset or angry even - apart from when I initially found the email and when WH got angry because of the email that DD15 sent the ho. I have been calm and controlled, I don't feel how I thought I would feel in this scenario. Maybe because I've read so much here and knew that it was bound to happen, maybe because I've been going through this for 2 years now and I'm emotionally drained or maybe it's because my LB is nearing the empty mark. Time will tell what the answer is.

Well, I hope everyone has a good weekend and happy halloween!

Bump for Tarnsy,,,

How are you doing??

Just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you.

Hope you and the girls are ok.

F26

Hi Tarnsy,

Hope you are doing OK under the circumstances. I have to agree with Ace on this, it may be time to move on and you certainly seem to be strong enough to endure it. The financial situation is a real downer at this time and I am sorry that it will add to your woes even more.

I don't stop by here much anymore. Funny I thought that I would have more free time once I retired but it seems I have less. On a positive note, my DD is doing so much better now that she is actually going to plan D. I didn't realise just how much stress she was under but the last time I talked to her she seemed so much like her old self. She and my DD 22 are going to Las Vegas between Christmas and New Years. Her husband is taking my grandson to visit his mother and it will be the first time DD 23 has been separated from him so it will be a fun diversion for her.

I honestly think that your WH just doesn't get it and he may be one of those who never does. You are a special person and if he can't see that, some day someone else will. Please take care of yourself and your DD's and know that you are in my thoughts and prayers.

Who

bump for tarnsy

Hi Tarnsy,

I just wanted to wish you and the girls a very Merry Christmas!

I really hope no news is good news and you are doing ok...

Thinking of you F-26

Bump again for Tarnsy,,, Happy New Year girl,,,,thinking of you.

F-26

Hi F-26,

Hope you are still checking in from time to time. Thx for thinking of me.

WH and I are doing pretty good. He still has some work to do in meeting my requirements but as time goes by he is getting back to being the H I knew before the A and I think that he is beginning to realise that we can't do this without some sort of guidance. SAA is on his bedside table but he doesn't pick it up unless I leave it open on a specific page.

As far as I can tell NC has been in place since the email I discovered, I will have to read back to see when that was - I don't obsess over dates so much anymore which is a good thing!

WH had 2 weeks off work over the holiday period of which we spent virtually every hour together, with or w/o DD and it was all good.

WH has his bankruptcy hearing at the end of the month so we still have that to worry about.

I know I still have to be watchful of WH and my radar is still on high alert and I also know that I need him to step up to the plate now and do some of the things I have previously asked for. WH has always been obstinate in doing things that aren't his idea so this is what I am struggling with, just getting him to read the books would be huge! He doesn't agree with self-help books etc. I used the analogy of a car breaking down, wouldn't you read the manual before tackling it yourself? WH at least agreed that the analogy made sense to him!

The only other blot on the landscape is MIL. She sent WH and DD's Xmas gifts and cards but I didn't even get a mention in WH's card! I have written a letter telling her a few truths but am wondering whether to send it or not. I truly do not know what I have done for her to act as if I don't exist. But then she has always been difficult. Is a letter the way to go? Ideally I'd like WH to deal with this but he has never been able to stand up to his mother, I have many stories I could tell about how she manipulates and controls people/situations.

Have a new PC now so hopefully will be around more often, will check in again soon.

Thx again F-26 and Who for checking up on me and to everyone else who has stopped by.

HI HI HI!!!! I am so glad things are doing good and that you sound so good!!!!

Your hubby sounds like he is coming around, and I know what you mean about him being resistant to things that are not his idea, my hubby is the same way. And the more I push the more he'll resist, but usually if I back off and give him time to think about things then "he'll" come with a simular plan LOL..

I may borrow the car manual analogy, that was good!

Great news on NC!!!!

and as far as the MIL, personally I wouldn't give her the satsifaction of even letting her know that she bothered me. People like that love the drama and if you ignore them it drives them crazy. (Just my opinion, my mom is very much like that)

Will you guys be able to keep the house?

anyhow I'm glad you are doing good,

hope to hear from you soon, F-26

Great to hear from you Tarnsy,

I'm hoping that WhoMe also sees your good report, but she is probably off traveling somewhere now that she's retired.

Ace

Hi F-26, Ace,

Well, how stupid can somebody be?! The day after I posted WH walked out again!

After 5 1/2 months it seems it was a false recovery. WH swears that NC has been in place (whatever) and that his reasons for leaving are that he cannot foresee ever loving me again, that I have not supported him financially, that DD's and I have no respect for him and that both of our mothers have too much influence - wtf? Oh and that if he leaves we won't lose the house - whoopee

I did ask WH to reconsider for the girls sakes but he replied that he knew that leaving would "screw their heads up again" but he had to do it. Oh how I missed the fogbabble!

WH did admit that he is f****d up in the head, with all that has gone on with us and losing the business and having to go bankrupt, he said that he has often thought of throwing himself off a bridge, he knows that he has to see a Dr about getting on anti-ds. He promised to do this but I don't hold out much hope, he has never had much sympathy for people (myself included) who have taken that route.

He also took SAA and promised to read that too but again it itsn't something I'll be holding my breath for.

TBH, part of me is relieved, I almost feel like a weight has been lifted - as if I had been waiting for this to happen and now that it has I can deal with it. Certainly things are much easier to cope with the second time around, I have been there and done that and I can do it again, this time with an eye to plan D rather than reconciliation.

DD's are ok. DD15 was angry at me at first and said it was my fault for not trying hard enough and DD9 has been sad and crying at night, she is a bit older this time round and it seems to be affecting her more. I'm just trying to reassure them that all will be well and we were fine before and we will be again.

Thanks to all who offered their help and support and I'm sorry that this is one story that is not going to have a happy ending - well, not the one I had anticipated, but I KNOW everything will be fine eventually. I'm sure that there will be more thrills to be had on this particular ride and I'll be coming straight here to all you wonderful people when they do.

Many thanks

Tarnsy

Hi folks,

just a quick question. WH has asked for my "permission" to read my thread here on MB. As I have no hopes for R now, do I have anything to lose by letting him read it? Part of me says it would do him good but another part of me thinks that he would use it against me and say that he was manipulated (plan B) altho that was not the intention obviously.

Of course, he could read it anyway - he doesn't need my permission to read a public forum - but he says he won't for now. I'm wondering if I should change my user name and start a new thread seeing as the only recovery I am going to get is a personal one.

Opinions anyone?

Hi Tarnsy,

I don't think I've posted to you before but I have kept up with this thread. I think our Plan Bs started around the same time & from what I can recall our Hs have seemed to have the same attitudes, both during Plan B and (false) recovery. My STBXH has also decided he's not going to do this. I'm sorry for your pain but I can SO relate - it's much easier this time around. Even the kids, though they're mad at both of us, are dealing better and DD12 is a bit relieved that "this time is for good". OH, also, I've noticed on the home computer that STBXH is also snooping around here now. He's NEVER been to this board before or been too interested in the Principles, etc. as I've tried to discuss/implement. What's up with that?

Anyway, you're right, you'll be OK and a success story all your own.

Hi Julie,

Thx for the words of support. I'm a little down at the mo probably cos I've just had a few glasses of wine with a friend. Plus I just found out that WH has changed his status on facebook to single, probably in the hopes that the ho will see.

Honestly, I just can't be doing with all this anymore, I am at the end of my tether. Can't help wondering why WH would even want to come here to MB now when he did nothing but belittle me for reading/posting here. My head tells me it's because he wants to keep me dangling but my heart can't help but to wonder if he is finally beginning to get "it" - whatever "it" is.

I guess it's just more games but I really don't want to play anymore. I think for my own sake I need to look at starting D proceedings so that I can put all this behind me once and for all.

Are you back in plan B with an eye to plan D? I think I need the peace of plan B as WH is emailing me several times a day and calling me crying telling me how much he hurts! I have enough to deal with as it is with DD's and my own pain, why do I have to hear about his?

Anyway, I have to go to bed, it's late in the UK. Will catch up tomoro.

Tarnsy, I am soooo sorry you're still going through this crap. If it were me, I would NOT let WH read your thread. What would be the point? You can't educate a WH and you're right, he probably WOULD try and use it against you.

This is your safe place. Don't give it up.

Tarnsy hugs, I am so sorry he did this again, 'specially when things seemed like they were settling down and going good.

Yes it does sound like he is depressed but running away is not the answer.

You sound strong and I agree with you, you can't deal with all of this he has to "poop" or get off the pot, this is unfair to you and to your girls.

And as far as reading here no, he didn't want to before why now? Other then to either use it against you or to keep tabs on what your doing, thinking etc.

Again I am sorry that he has choose to run away and not commit to his family,,,, but this will be a success story.. YOURS you will make a happy life for you and your girls and as they say that is the best revenge!

My prays are with you girl,,,, F-26

Hi Tarnsy,

So sorry you're having to endure another episode. Don't berate yourself for giving him far more chances than he deserves. A positive perspective is that you can know in your heart that you did everything possible (and then some) to try to salvage your marriage.

I don't think you should allow him to see your innermost thoughts and struggles on your thread. Keep it as your private benchmark for your own personal recovery.

Praying for you and wishing you the best,
Ace

Hi Tarnsy,

I actually came to MB today to check and see how you were doing. I am really sorry that your WH is once again dazed and confused. I agree with Ace and the others who feel that your WH shouldn't read your posts here. I don't see anything to be gained on your part. It might be different if he appeared at all interested in recovering your marriage, but he doesn't.

I also feel that success isn't necessarily recovering your marriage or not. Success for you and your girls might be simply to recover yourselves and move on without your WH.

What ever happens, you will be fine. You are so strong and have been thru this for quite awhile by this point. I just wanted to lend my moral support and let you know that I was thinking of you.

Who

Bump for Tarnsy,,,, how are you???

Hello all, thx for the support.

I'm not too bad, going thru this a 2nd time is not as bad as I had feared. In fact it seems that WH is taking it much worse than DD's or I am this time round. He has been to see his doc and has started on the anti-d's and apparently is starting CBT today.

My tasks for this week are to sort out financial help as my income is not going to suffice covering all the household bills and the job seeking is not going well. Then I need to find a solicitor to sort out putting the house in my name - WH has stated that he will not want any recompense - and start D proceedings. I don't want a D but I think it is the only way for me to move forward.

I'm finding that I am feeling more anger towards WH, you know, how could he do this a 2nd time, why does he want to read SAA now, why does he feel so sorry now, why couldn't he do that before? Just lots of questions that I don't have the answers to.

WH keeps emailing me. Lots of sorry's and telling me how bad he feels, how he can't sleep, keeps crying and wondering about the if's and whys. I think he would go back to the cake-eating if I allowed it.

So far I have managed to avoid seeing WH, I have told him in no uncertain terms that I will only "talk" via email and that I will not be his friend now or in the foreseeable future.

A couple of my real life friends have said that I seem more relaxed, happier even, now that WH has gone. My only explanation for this is that I had been waiting for this to happen and now I don't have to worry about it anymore. I still love WH but I have to love myself more, I deserve better and so do DD's.

When I feel myself begin to waiver I try to remember to tell myself the things that I don't have to put up with anymore, from the constant worrying if NC would be broken to the little stuff like not having to listen to his snoring. And the more I think about it the easier it is to come up with more things lol!

Even my subconscious is helping out. During WH's A I would have dreams of WH and I together having a good time, now if I dream about WH it is not a pleasant subject so I wake up feeling angry and resentful towards WH.

Oh and I told WH not to read my thread, he said he will abide by my wishes but I am wondering if I should start a new thread with a different user name anyway as we know not to trust anything a wayward says. That might be a good idea anyway as I am way past plan B now lol!

Tarnsy

PS Thx for stopping by Who, I hope your retirement is going well

Hi girl,,

You sound good, considering.

I guess there must be a peace in that you now longer feel as thou the other shoe is going to drop. It's dropped.

Is DD14 taking things better? Does she still blame you?

And your other DD, how is she?

Sounds like you have a pretty busy week coming up. Is he helping you with any of it, or do you have to handle this all??

I am sure your emotions are going to take you on quite the rollar coaster ride, please vent here don't try to keep it all in,, we are here for you girl! Yes you deserve way more, you have done everything you could, you will make it!!!!!

F-26

Bump for Tarnsy

thinking of you,,,,

Hi F-26 and all,

Nothing much going on just need to get some feelings out and maybe get some advice.

I am finding myself getting increasingly mad at WH. Not for any specific reason - well, apart from putting us in this sitch in the first place lol - but I can't bear the thought of having any kind of C with him, even the second hand kind via DD's makes me angry!

I have only seen him once since he left 3 weeks ago and that was on my b'day (the big 40 -argh!) when he dropped of a card for me - a card with "to my lovely wife" on the front, what the h3ll?!

Now he is making life difficult by being argumentative and refusing to aclnowledge that £20,000 of the mortgage on our home was taken out by him to start his business. I don't see why I should pay this part of the debt as he ran it into the ground when he was with OW and came back with a sh1tload of debt.

Until the last couple of days I had been receiving emails from WH, one day it would be "oh, I'm so sorry for all the hurt I've caused. I feel so bad..." and then the next it is "it's all your fault our M ended, OW had nothing to do with it". Typical fogspeak.

But why does it get to me so much? Should I plan B him even tho there is no hope for R? Even as I type it, I think it is the best thing to do, just so that he can't wind me up anymore than he already has. I am finally beginning to hate him and I hope that this stage will soon pass into indifference, then I will know I am truly over him.

Thx tarnsy

{{{tarnsy}}}

Plan B isn't for the R, it's for you and your sanity. Do whatever you need to take care of yourself and DDs.

Oh, and hire an accountant to go back through your books and put out a report showing how the money got used, before he has a chance to alter the books.

Hugs (((Tarnsy)))

Yes I agree with cat, you need to do what is best for you and the DD's right now and if going dark to keep your sanity then do it.

I think what you are feeling is completely normal and completely understandable after everything you have been through. Please keep posting and getting your feelings out here, you can't keep all that hurt and anger locked inside.

f-26

BUMP

As you know, I am in effect, plan B'ing WH. As such we are only communicating via email, apart from on my b'day and yesterday - when each sighting was less than 30 seconds, I have not seen WH.

Email contact is mostly WH contacting me to sort out the logistics of picking up DD's, financial stuff and to let me know how bad he is feeling.

I guess what I am asking is do you think I should extend the hand of friendship to WH as he is clearly struggling with the consequences of his actions.

To give you an idea of his state of mind here are a couple of examples of what I have received:

Thank you so much for lending me these pills, i can repay as soon as I get mine on friday. I was or am at my wits end as I seem to be going down hill in my head and not getting or feeling better at all. I just cry, simple as that. I am crying more now then ever before in my life.
Going to bed is still the worst part of my day, i wept like a baby last night. I know u dont want to listen to me, but I dont have no one else.
Sorry.


On another matter, Tarnsy, I am lost, so very lost. Its like being on a roller coaster. Last night I had my first rehearsal, which was great fun. I had well and truly forgot how much I enjoy that sort of thing. but today I am down. Very down. Not having nice thoughts, very dark and very disturbing. What can I do? How did you cope? I now know how you must have felt to some degree. A feeling of total hopelessness, dread and regret. It is consuming me. I went back to see DD15, I just missed DD9. All I could do was hug her. I kept my tears at bay. Hugging her made me feel a lot better. But now I am back at work I am down again.

Sorry.

Have you had a look at that Galaxy Zoo site yet? Typical, when I first saw it I thought, we would or could have done that together while I was home. See I am doing it again. Sorry.




I feel bad for him but it was his actions that led us here. Maybe he is reaching his rock bottom. I don't know if I should be there for him or not.

Thx guys

You are in denial. You are not in plan B. All communications should be done using an intermediary. To filter out his nonsense.

I assume you told him that you need WH to end the affair and have NC with the OW before you will allow contact.

If WH has not met your conditions then get that IM in place to handle contact. WH must be retold what you need for direct contact. Then you can start a plan B until WH meets your need to end plan B.

Thx TR, but I'm guessing you don't know the full story. I am plan B'ing WH for me, not to recover the M, not to end the A - that ended months ago and we have had a false R since then.

This is all about me, what I want. I have no hopes of R, too much time has elapsed, I have had my fingers burnt once too often. It is plan B until plan D.

I am just wondering out loud if WH is just feeling sorry for himself or if he is genuinely feeling remorse. Is he using the fact that he knows I will feel sorry for him and therefore want to help him feel better so that we end up as "friends" when I have told him that I do not want to be friends with him.

Thx

Hey girl,,, I hear what you are saying and I think it is both,, yes he is remorseful,, I think he is realizing that he destroyed everything that meant anything to him,, his family, his home and his business, it's all gone.

Yes he is feeling sorry for himself and I think that he wants you to tell him it's all going to be ok, You're going to be OK, the girls are going to be ok and he will be OK.

And of course you all will be OK,, but there will be scars.

What is your gut telling you to do? Since the girls are still fairly young you will still have to continue having contact and communications from him. But beyond that you owe him nothing, if you are done and want to move on then I feel you have to cut him loose, if communication isn't about the girls or money then you have nothing to say to him.

I know easier said then done, but girl you did so much to save this marriage and family you need to save Tarnsy now...

You are doing great!! One day at a time,,, One step at a time you will do this.

Hi Tarnsy, good to see you posting again.

This is not Plan B. You know that.

This is Plan...
Tarnsy: Plan Enable, Plan Nicey-Nice, Plan Don't-Wanna-Be-MEAN
WH: Plan Manipulate, Plan Woe-Is-Me, Plan call my own shots, Plan Continue to Toy with Tarnsy's emotions!

He has not hit rock bottom. He has hit the Make Tarnsy Wonder, and Feel Sorry For ME button. That's all he's hit. You see that, don't you?

Go dark now, please. Do it for you & do it for the kids. You KNOW the drill, you know he doesn't take you seriously, you know he hasn't all along. Tarnsy: do YOU take you seriously? Once you do, then YOU can begin to recover.

I know how hard it is. But I also know how much harder and detrimental to our sanity NOT being completely dark is. Do it now!

He is manipulating you. As always, he gets his way by getting to your soft spots.

Which is why you are NOT supposed to be having any contact with him. Every email you take - or SEND!!!! - is delaying ANY resolution. Go dark and let him hit rock bottom so he can decide what to do. Don't keep doing this to your kids.

Thx for the responses.

The consensus seems to be that WH is manipulating me into making him feel better and I have to say that I probably agree with you all.

The only thing that makes me wonder is the fact that here is the man who didn't think he could ever be depressed or have issues that needed professional help, now taking AD's and having therapy.

I guess he just my wants my help in soothing his conscience and as I told him that is no longer my job.

As for having C, I'm not in any plan, as things stand I can't see R of our M happening.

I now have to start working on my personal R. But with looking for work, possibly selling the house and looking into the pro's and con's of that and seeking D advice, I don't have a lot of time for me.

DD's seem to be doing better. DD15 had missed A LOT of school and we have had several meetings about getting her back there. Finally we spoke to a teacher who was more flexible than the previous one we had spoken to and has allowed DD15 to change a couple of her classes and the issue seems to be resolved

DD9 still gets angry very easily, her fuse has always been short, but I have seen her loving nature come out a few times lately. I am still concerned that this whole A has affected her in ways that are still to be seen and am hoping that I will be able to get her to the C who helped myself and DD15 when this all started.

Thx for now

Of course he's depressed. He's spent his whole life getting anything he wants by manipulating people; and now, for the first time, he doesn't have any way to do that because you're being smarter than him. Pretty depressing to realize you may not get to continue your winning streak.

Did I ever tell you about my D18 who dated an abusive jerk a couple years ago? She realized what he was doing and broke up with him after a month. He's been harassing her in school ever since! Just this month, she sent out texts to everyone she's had issues with, clearing the air so to speak, since she's graduating. She sent one to him; he asks why; she explains; so he launches into this multi-page rant about how she has ruined his life, all the things SHE did wrong, how could she live with herself, he'll never recover...and she apparently did all this to him in their one month of dating! He even knew how many months it had been since they broke up, he's been counting!

It's the same thing - people like that are used to getting what they want because they seek out people with weaknesses that they can twist. Once someone wises up and cuts it off, they're dumbfounded. When I broke up with my fiance 30 years ago, who was...well, doing a lot of stuff behind my back, he fell apart. Dropped out of college, came to see me at work every day for a month crying to me to come back (until my coworkers scared him off)...it was disgusting how pitiful he became, this guy who once 'owned the town,' just because someone called him on his game.

All in all, you're doing him a favor.

Bump for Tarnsy,,, just letting you know I am thinking of you and hope you and the DD's are doing well...F-26

Hi everyone,

I haven’t posted in a while but have dropped in occasionally and it’s sad to see that adultery is still rampant and probably will be so as long as humans walk the earth.

Plan D is underway. WH is not contesting. It’s not what I wanted but it is what it is. WH bankruptcy has meant that I have to do it to try to save my home, the receiver is entitled to half of any equity in the house and my solicitor has advised that I get this sorted out now while the housing market is still bottoming out. I could still lose our home if the value is a lot more than the amount I currently owe on the mortgage as I won’t be able to raise the funds.

DD15 is pleased that I am finally D’ing her father but DD9 is extremely upset and unfortunately I am getting the blame. As much as I try to explain it to her she still hates the thought that we are divorcing despite the fact that we have been separated for 2 ½ yrs – not including the FR of 5 1/2mths.

As for me, well, I need to work on my personal recovery. I still have days when I am consumed with anger that WH has put us in this sitch. I am hoping that the D will give me some “closure” – I hate that word - and will allow me to look at a future with somebody else. For some reason I can’t even look at another man while I am still married even if it is only on paper.

WH wants us to be friends of course but it’s not something I can stomach at the moment. He has even suggested that we provide each others SF as we are both single!! WTF!! I told him no in case you were wondering! Lol. On the one hand he tells me that he is broken but on the other he is actively seeking a relationship through online dating sites.

Oh well, thats about all, will let you all know how the D works out and thanks everyone for the support and advice, especially WomanofFaith5, WhoMe, and Faithful 26 although I don’t see them posting lately. This place is a wonderful resource for the BS and the repentant WS. I’m just sad that my WH never got that far.

Tarnsy

Hugs Tarnsy,

I am glad you posted, I was wondering about you. I don't post much anymore I just pop in now and again to check up on my cyber-friends.

You sound very strong in your post, I am proud of you moving forward with things and I really hope in time your DD9 will at the very least accept things.

You are going to make it! You have already come so far..

I pray things work out with the house, so much has been dumped on your lap and it is just not right.

Know that I am thinking of you and you are doing good!!!! F-26

Hiou Tarnsy,

Glad to see that you are still around. Although things didn't work out as we would have liked, you sound resolute and strong. As far as other relationships, well it will happen when the time is right and you are ready. I see good things in your future and you will be able to apply all of the wonderful things you have learned here on MB to your future relationships.

Also, am sorry that DD9 is having a rough time, know that she only blames you cause you are there. In time she will mature and see things as they really are.

My best to you.

Who