What part of I HAVE TOLD HER are you not getting???

As far as the fear of her leaving?? That fear is not there.
Why is that fear not there because of the facts around what our lives would be like if we did split. See hear is what I find funny about you folks telling people to play the D card. It goes both ways and effects everyone the same regardless if I do it or she does. See the logistics of a divorce are not impossible they are just difficult. I don't fear that out come either because of that fact. I only (at this point) care about the effects of D on my daughter and my wife feels the same way. So sorry that card means nothing to me.

As far as my wife having POWER in the relationship, she has all the power at home. Except for the fact I hold the purse strings because I am the only person working. But I have never told her she can and cannot do things. I am always the one that gave in to family events, parties etc.... which played into my resentment and eventual entitlement.

See when you don't fear losing things it makes negotiations a whole different animal. I just fear not seeing my daughter everyday. My wife fears the same thing since we would have joint custody.

What other people? I have listed several people here I have thanked. Because even though those people are tough on me they do it in a fashion I can relate to and not get my hackles up over. Those people present an argument in a fashion that does make me think about my own issues and how to gain solutions. See like has been discussed before the rude 2x4 method does not work for everyone. Just glad there are some folks her that can understand there are other ways.

****************************************************************

For those of you that have said I was dishonest when I first came here you right. There is a reason I have not posted in the 2 months since. In those first post I was very much in withdrawal and defensive. Posting as my wife was wrong but I was pissed and wanted to troll some of you just to see how far I could go. I am no longer that person. I am actually her looking for help, choose to help me or not. To those that are willing to help me thanks I do need the assistance.

Thanks Man!

I did miss the part where you said that you HAD told her...but I keep remembering the story of the little boy who cried wolf.

It's hard to take it serious with so much earlier deception.


Hmm...YOU are the only one working?

What does she do...sit at home and eat bonbons all day??

committed

I understand the disbelief because of my first actions here.

She is/was a stay at home mom, but now that our child is in public school wonder that myself. It is a sore subject with me as well. She does have a little side job but what she does with the majority of her day is talk to her mom.

**********************************************************

LousyGolfer

A specific question for you.

How did you deal with these withdrawals from someone you knew for so long? It is like this nagging thing in the back of my head that will just not go away. This stupid thing of does she miss me, does she still care blah blah blah.... I just want it to go away. I do find my self getting pissed about it which then effects how I deal with my wife.

Hmmmm..."her crew"...Name names HU, just who would that be? Are you suggesting that ML somehow controls people here? That is pretty funny if you ask me and I happen to be a friend of hers...Rest assured I am no puppet...Mel would not like or respect people like that, who would?

Amazing to me that you keep shooting at ML...The very person who started this thread for you...Grow up HU...As I told you from the beginning, HUMBLE YOURSELF...That is the only way for recovery to work...Yes, that means you need to humble yourself to others as well...the attitude seeps through to your wife if not...

I too doubt that you have told your wife...Obviously I doubt this because of your original antics here, but another reason I doubt it is because of the detailed information that you gave regarding the exact date and time that you told her...Giving superfluous details is a liar's gig...Seriously, can you blame anyone for doubting you? Wouldn't YOU doubt someone who did what you did here?

Did you tell your wife that you impersonated her here? If so, what did she say regarding that little tidbit?

You keep saying that you lurk and read here all the time...And yet you keep saying stuff about not being able to love your wife...Have you been reading Dr. Harley's stuff here? If you have, then you would know that it is most certainly possible for you to love your wife again...All you have to do is work the progam and it WILL work for you...

We ARE rooting for your marriage, whether you believe it or not...Your attitude just needs a big adjustment...

Mrs. W

Hmmm...Maybe she is getting support from her mom because she has an abusive and unavailable husband HU...She has INTIMACY with her mom that she does not have in her marriage...

Mrs. W

I think you misunderstood...the comment about the bonbons was sarcasm.

I was a SAHM when my children were young...and when they went on to PUBLIC school.

Just because the children were in school doesn't mean that my work at home stopped.

There was still errands to run...shopping to do...floors to sweep...floors to mop...furniture to dust...carpets to vacuum...tubs to clean...(wait, I take that back..my H did that one)...sinks to clean...tolets to scrub...windows to wash...clothes to wash...clothes to iron...beds to make...linens to launder. :crosseyedcrazy:

Then...when the kids got home....it was shuttle time...to practice...to games...to dance.

Back home...it was dinner to prepare...help with homework...and when they were KG and 1st grade...bath help.

So...just because your DD is in public school, it doesn't mean that there is no longer any work at home.

Hence...the bonbon remark.

committed

How is your wife dealing with the infomation that you told her--that you had an affair? How is she expressing herself about this? You mention that you shared with her your evaluation of the facts about divorce and how it would affect finances and your daughter and that she agreed with your assessment.

Other than that agreement of your assessment, how is she handling the knowledge of the affair? How are you dealing with her response to the information that you had an affair?

Usually that is the big discussion that a former wayward has tons of questions about when they come to this forum for help. They usually describe stuff about their BS reactions and want to know how they can help the BS through their grief.

Hu:

Since you asked me a specific question. Thus:


I will give you a specific answer.

I talked with Flamingo about it.

She was the biggest help.

No, I didn't sob on her shoulder, many BS's around here are apalled by that. There was a connection between OW and I. That was severed. It needed to be, and it was. My BW was in serious emotional pain, and I recognized that and tried to help her. MB helped alot. But I was in pain as well, and Flamingo understood and helped HOW SHE COULD.

I used to talk to OW ALOT. Flamingo let me talk TO HER. I would call Flamingo and we would just chat. We spent hours on the phone. I had a NEW friend. She was my W. She was the one I SHOULD have been having these conversations with.

We talked ALL ABOUT the A. We talked about the weather. We talked about our son. We talked about whether she should let me live. We talked about her having an revenge affair. We talked about her potential triggers and what had to be disposed of in our life. (things that OW had touched) We talked about the lie that was her marriage that she had lived for so long. We talked about how so-called "happy" family memories during that time were now tainted. We talked about selling my van, that OW had ridden in. And done things in. But Flamingo said that I didn't deserve a NEW vehicle after having an A. If it could be talked about, we did. And we still do.

I just spent the last 30 minutes on the phone with her. She was coming back from a riding lesson and I am at my office taking care of some stuff.

I once posted to NC171, our Jamaican friend who's wayward wife just couldn't seem to stop. But one time, she was home, and making an effort, it seemed. He posted about his WW "crying" about missing the OM. He didn't like that. I explained it this way: Your WW invited a mangy old dog into the house to live. She loved that dog and YOU couldn't stand it. But the facts are what they are. When the dog died, she was IN PAIN. You didn't like the dog, never liked the dog and GLAD that it is gone. But dancing on its grave in full sight of your hurting W wouldn't be proper either. You aknowledge that pain and help her move thru that stage.

That time will come. And if done properly, you will be dancing there as well.

LG

HU:


There used to be a guy on this support group used a name starting with "U." I forget his exact name. He and I used to tie up and argue about lasting affections for the OW. We used to discuss differences of opinions about the nature of true and lasting love and all that. It boiled down to exactly what you are saying and feeling. I took him to task because he defended his affection for his previous affair partner at great length and ad nauseum.

It was an obsession.

Funny thing happened. It seems that his daughter's husband cheated. All of a sudden, he saw things from a different and less self centered point of view. This was a guy who taught marriage and family in a religeous context with his wife at some sort of retreats.

He was busy defending his lack of honor based on the concept of true love. He was full of bull. Lack of honor has no defense. Matter of fact, honor is very much a part of true love if it is true love, by definition. A grown up male does NOT do anything to harm a woman he really, really loves, it is the protective instinct in a real man as opposed to a male. By definition, a real man in love will not engage in adultery with the female he loves because that is an act of destruction.

In addition and here is a key, it drags the object of affection down to the level of adultery, which is the fool's gold of relationships. Hanging on to affair affections equates to hanging on the excuses used to justify and has no place in a grown up approach to recovery. The object of your affection is just another tiresome cheater in a worldview that has no honor, no dignity and no ethics. Most of the time, residual affection for the other betrayer is nothing more or less than attempting to hang on to a shred of self respect not deserved.

Just my opinion. I don't expect you to agree with me.

Larry

Dont want to be nitpicky, now that it seems your on track again, at least as far as asking for help instead of just yelling, but the above statement is either untrue, or someone using your log in told Flick to go to another site he was posting on on July 22nd. I know this because he came home july 21 and answered his posts the next day.

Regarding thinking of the OW, tell your wife when you do and ask her to help you refocus, thats what we do.

sigh.... You have told us a few times about a "nicer" board where they separate the BS' from the WS' and will not allow the BS's to "abuse" the WS as you believe they do here. [although you have been treated much better here than you treat others by far]

I found at least 2 places where the mods edited you for referring to this other board. Even though your direct comments have since been removed, you can tell from the other posters comments what you said.

here you told lildoggie's H about this other board: "more suitable places for a strong willed WS to get information. It is basically the same information but presented in a less abusive fashion." http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2096171

and here you defended another foggy WS and suggested the other nice website where they "separated" the BS and the WS to protect the poor WS from the mean old BS [read the responders comments since Hu's were removed] http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...in=152004&Number=2097114#Post2097114

Hu7668, is the truth really such a hard thing for you?

Interesting thing about those other sites I never posted there. I had thought that a place where WS could talk was constructive, but the more I read the less I liked the place. Why may you be wondering?

Because those are most beaten down sorry people I have ever seen on a forum. Yes they did wrong and have to work to get back to good graces but after reading enough threads where WS put up with verbal abuse from their spouse after 2 years? Then to see other WS telling them to just stick out, it will get better? No
Sorry the BS is not the only one that gets to decided if the marriage continues. To me there are lines that once crossed get into the world of two wrongs to not make a right. So I quite reading those other places and returned to here.

Yes this place is much more difficult to deal with. But at least the people here have passion and opinions that go beyond the just hang on it will get better approach.

See my response above Melody. The other site was not a good idea, but I keep seeing the same "greeting" to other WS. And it was a misguided attempt at help.

Tell you what I would like to do with you Melody, and that is to start over. You came at me strong and I responded in a like fashion with is counter productive to the whole conversation.

Because I would like to get assistance from the folks here about moving forward in my life. Can we do that?

*************************************************************

I have been on here for the last several days trying to get you people to understand that I have told my wife. I understand the doubts but I keep coming back. If I had not told my wife this would be way more work then any enjoyment I am getting from posting, over and over saying I have.

It is weird and not like any BS I have read about there. She is very normal, it is creepy.

I answer her questions when she asks.

"I have been on here for the last several days trying to get you people to understand that I have told my wife."

It may be true that you have really told your wife.
But it is also true that you lied to us about that before.
It will take a while before people will believe you, BECAUSE of your own dishonesty (NOT because we are being unreasonable).

Just because a WS stops lying doesn't mean they are instantly entitled to credibility. You will have to earn trust.
And how long that takes is directly proportional to how much time and effort you had previously put into being deceptive.
You posted here pretending to BE your BW... that's pretty deceptive stuff, agreed?

From my perspective you come across as feeling entitled to lie, and then feeling sort of annoyed or victimized because your credibility is being questioned (um because of your lying).
Your comments about our lack of trust comes across as whining to me. You apparently feel that even though you've lied to us before, we SHOULD trust you now.

If you treat your BW that way too she is going to know that you will not appreciate her giving you another chance. If she trusts you again you won't see it as an act of grace, a gift... you won't appreciate what you expect and believe you are owed. That sort of WS attitude is not conducive to marital recovery. It comes across as too "I said the adultery is over... I swear I'm telling the truth NOW... what more do you want?!?" IMHO.

THE problem is not that we don't trust you now;
The problem is that you've not behaved in a trustworthy manner.

If the WS is not willing to put as much time, effort, and humility, into recovery to compensate for however much damage their lying caused, then recovery won't work.

Ironically, the more you make an issue of our lack of trust, the less I feel inclined to trust you. You think you are entitled to con us into believing whatever you want us to believe don't you? I can smell that attitude from a universe away BTW. I was married to a guy a lot like you for 25 years. Send your BW here - we can teach her how to increase the odds you will get honestly honest with her...how to make sure you're not still lying to her.

hu7668, be assured that your coming back tells us nothing. You are a practiced liar with long experience. You kept coming back before when you were lying. It didn't stop you then and I doubt it will stop you now.

The problem is that you want to focus on getting your needs met and bypass a critical first step, HONESTY. Your story does not ring true, hu7668. Your wife's response does not ring true and your reaction does not true. If you told her anything, you spun the story in such a way that she really doesn't know.

But lets say it is all true and you did tell this woman and she is completely indifferent as you say. Then that means she has likely completely detached from the marriage. Is that the case? Has she moved on emotionally as it sounds?

What you want is to have a marriage where you are in love, right? Well, guess what? I promise you that will be impossible until you tell her the full truth. Intimacy is contingent upon HONESTY. That is the first step.

Hu,

Despite many obvious lies, I figure that you are here and that much tells me that somehow, just somehow, you want to do something to fix what you have done.


You said you want to start over. Okay. Start over.

Let's say YOU start over, and bring with you the idea that the problem in your marriage is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


YOU.


Because that is the case.


There is an error in human thinking that leads us all to believe that problems that occur with other people must be because there is something wrong with the OTHER PERSON.

It is called the error of self-deception.

You said you are looking for the "system failure", well, there it is.

You have been deceiving yourself, Hu, for this is how human beings fail in relationships. It's actually how we fail on most jobs, in most tasks, actually, in most everything. We fail because we are not able to view ourselves from the standpoint of others, and because when it comes to making moral judgements and decisions, when we make that initial decision to go against exactly what we know we OUGHT to do, we begin to attempt to justify and rationalize it. That is a point called "self-betrayal".

Basically, here's what went wrong with you when you had your affair (and basically what goes wrong with you in general, if you will look back over your own thread).

First, you had the idea that you wanted something that you knew you should not have - the other woman. At this point in time, an inner working in your mind told you, and you KNEW, that this was wrong, and went against your morals and values. But what kicked in was a system of both subconscious (self-deception) and conscious (self-betrayal) workings.

You began to justify your desire for the OW and your actions of sneaking around with her, by making your wife blameworthy. Your wife HAD to be blamed, do you see that? Of course she was blameworthy, because you were compromising everything about yourself for the OW, and therefore you would NEVER do that unless there were all these things about your wife and marriage that were terrible. So you blow those things out of proportion.

On top of that, there is another thing about YOU, Hu. You have a tendency to make yourself seem like you are not only somehow justified in all of this, but that your wife almost VICTIMIZED YOU BY NOT MEETING YOUR NEEDS. Your focus is on you, and you somehow stay there - your focus on your superiority in your abilities over your wife, that she was not the spouse you were to her, etc. This is also a flip-side of the same coin in the justification game. You were a victim, and also superior to her at the same time, and both justify your behavior. You were "entitled" to your affair.

That was your "system failure".

Your self-deception here was that you were somehow morally and personally superior to your wife - you are NOT. You and your wife are equals, and you and your wife deserve the same treatment as every other human being on the planet, whether you work, or she works, or you earn $1,000 an hour, or she does. You deceive yourself when you lose focus on the value of PEOPLE, and when you believe you have more worth than anyone else. You. Don't.

Your self-betrayal occurred when you had that moment of KNOWING that there was moral corruption, and a moral reason for not engaging further with the OW - and you did it anyway. This moral reason need not have ANY RELIGIOUS BASIS WHATSOEVER, but have moral reason and basis FOR YOU. Once that "knowing" occurs, and you go forward and betray that knowing, you have self-betrayed. A person cannot self-betray without then finding some sort of justification, and justification ultimately finds


someone to blame.

Blame finds a home. In this case.........your wife.



Now, that, in a nutshell, is my best explanation for why you had your system failure.

You continue to find yourself morally superior to those on the boards, especially to those with religious backgrounds and leanings. Morals have their bases in many places - often in religion, but not always. It does not matter how the message originated, does it, if it hits home.

I would encourage you to examine the messages, for their meaning, and perhaps find it in yourself to consider humility and change. Your marriage may grow, and you might also just find that your wife

will also change.

SB

Ok, I am happy to start again with you. I think I can see some change in you that was not apparent before.


Flick and I were talking something along these lines earlier today.
It's all well and good to identify a problem, but its not very useful if you don't have a PLAN to resolve and repair the issue.
Thats what so great about MB. There is a plan and it works. And you dont even have to stick 100% to it although it will give the best results. Heck I managed to stick to it, and I can't stick to anything LOL. Flick might be putting in 60% if I am lucky and even he tells me this is a good plan for recovery.

You just have to follow it.....

Hu:

You stated this about your BS:


Your right. It is creepy. Are you sleeping with one eye open? Cuz, methinks she's planning something.

I didn't post that post about me talking to my wife as saying that "that" is the only way. But it's what worked for us.

What kind of questions has your BS asked?

LG