Vows4Good,

I have a medical condition which prevents me from running. I was directly told not to run. We've discussed his running with me biking besides him, but I have a real aversion to his running. I wasn't real thrilled about his training for a marathon, and he ended up with physical problems from it, including a sore back for which he has gone to chiropractors and personal trainers. The real problem, though, was how his personality changed when he ran. He was like a man possessed. Nothing was as important as his running.

I do try to look at him for who he is now. The other day, my sister was asking me if I worried about his being unfaithful when he travels for work. I said no. I then told her he drove with a woman three hours to a conference, attended the conference, had dinner with her, stayed overnight in the city (presumably in the same hotel), and drove her three hours back to her company. This would not fit with Dr. Harley's "extraordinary precautions." The real precaution is internal to him. It's a boundary against going into emotional intimacy with another woman.

My sister brought this up because a woman who lived up the street from her found out her husband was having an affair, she and her husband decided to go on a "second honeymoon" to Hawaii as a way to repair the marriage, the wife slipped and fell off a cliff to her death while she was in Hawaii, and the husband went on to marry his affair partner. I told my sister that there is no doubt in my mind that my husband wanted me dead while he was having an affair. He pressed on my forehead so forcefully that I thought he was going to crush my skull. It turned out that he triggered a condition so difficult to treat that I went through five surgeries for it at the Mayo Clinic. That was in addition to the three surgeries for the arm he broke while he was having an affair. What got us through this mess, at least in part, was the affair occurred when the oldest of our four children was 7.

Now the youngest of our four children is 7, and the other day our oldest told me she is glad that I didn't divorce Dad. He's worked hard to be a loving husband and father, and I respect him for the choices he has made since he broke my arm and had an affair.

I know a lot of people write off men who have been abusive, and one thing that concerns me is that my husband could not have turned around his life if I had involved the police. He would have gone to jail. He would have had a criminal record. He would have lost the right to vote. He would have been barred from volunteering in the school.

Our families of origin and our children know what he did, but we have kept the past out of the present and out of the public record. He has a prestigious job for which he had to pass an extensive background check. He volunteers at the school and with outside activities with our children. He is able to recover from the horrible mistakes of the past and be a good father and husband today. It was a lot of work on his part, not on mine. A friend of mine once said to me, "Don't run interference for his conscience." It's like the 180 program posted on this forum or the "Be still" thread. I stood back and waited.

Over the past few months, I have come to consider that the POJA and the idea of "veto power" over each other may be inappropriate. I'm not sure how to describe this, but I think of it as deference. He knows I don't like fishing, but he loves to take the kids fishing. I tried to enjoy taking pictures of the kids and taking the dog for a walk while they were fishing. If I avoid saying "no", then he has the opportunity to work with me on finding solutions that work.

I have run rough over him over the years, so furious have I been about his treatment of me. What I lost was my femininity, and I am trying to regain it.

We still have a long way to go, but our house is now calmer -- and that's start!

Cherished

" I told my sister that there is no doubt in my mind that my husband wanted me dead while he was having an affair. He pressed on my forehead so forcefully that I thought he was going to crush my skull. It turned out that he triggered a condition so difficult to treat that I went through five surgeries for it at the Mayo Clinic. That was in addition to the three surgeries for the arm he broke while he was having an affair."


What human being would ever put up with this treatment? What is wrong with you that you would live with it. Do you feel you are worthless or something???? You need help to get away from this criminal, this toxic abuser.

When you met him you should have walked away. Before you married him you should have run. Before you had children you should have gotten divorced.

And now you are still with him? Why???

HE IS A BEAST. AND YOU ARE THE BEAST'S MAIN TARGET

Does he care about your brain damage/cancer due to him injuring your skull? Do you care about your health damages from him? What about the broken arm? Are you over that, did you feel you deserved it? Do you care more about yourself and your health now than you did then?

Maybe you should ruin his scull FOR LIFE like he ruined yours.

Maybe you should let him go on a Marathon run. Then, when he comes home 8 hours later, the locks will be changed, you will be all moved out, and everything will be gone!

That way you can try and retrieve your precious life, the life you almost let him END. You still have a few good years left, even after the brain damage he did to you. Please dont give your remaining few good years left...to him!!!!!

k

Denial....terrible way of life.

Stellakat,

It's true that not many people make the transformation my husband has, but he has. I'm not in denial. He's becoming more and more thoughtful. He works hard. He is very involved in his children's lives. He takes time to be with me alone. We may not yet be at the point of emotional intimacy, but at least we are learning to be together in a calm and considerate way.

I point to the "Be still" thread. A friend of mine told me, "Don't run interference for his conscience." I stood back and waited. It seemed like giving up, but I made the conscious decision to be receptive without being pushy.

There is no brain damage. There is unlikely to be any effect except an ugly forehead that is covered with bangs. I recognize that not many wives stay with a man who causes 8 surgeries. I felt as though my entire worth was dependent on his esteem for me. To be married to someone who finds you unworthy of life is a terrible way to live. "Your whole existence is wrong." What a wonderful thing to say to the wife you promised to cherish.

That was then. This is now.

Looking back, I wish I had separated from him before dinner on our wedding day. I didn't. I excused his behavior -- excuse after excuse after excuse.

No more excuses.

My 14 year old daughter told me the other day, "I'm glad you didn't divorce Dad."

An abuser can get labeled for life as an evil person who does not deserve to be around children or his former wife. I recognize that. That's part of why I didn't want his abuse to be in the public record.

What I see in my husband is a man who turned his life around, and I admire him for it.

Cherished

Cherished. You have the right to decide that you want to remain married to this man.

However, I worry about your daughter. So far hubby has broken your arm and bashed in your skull, with no consequences for him. What do you think the two of you are teaching your daughter about healthy relationships?

Believer,

There are three daughters and one son. I've told our daughters that, if a boyfriend ever treats you badly, dump him. In fact, I came up with the idea of "be still" because I was pushing my husband to treat me well while telling our children, and in particular our middle daughter, that she should get away from students at school who don't treat you well.

I've also told them I should have separated from him until he treated me well. Our youngest objected to the idea of Dad leaving, but I told her that there is no reason for him to leave now because he's being a nice Dad.

As for our son, I know that my husband has had some talks with him when he's hit his sisters.

It's not been an ideal childhood for them by any means, and yet they have been resilient. I went into marriage with the commitment that I would stay with him no matter what, and I am teaching our daughters to be open to separation.

Cherished

I feel sad about you and your kids. Why was it that you did not value yourself and the kids enough to get away from him early on?

He is "better" now? How much better can a monster ever get??

Stellakat,

I feel sad, looking back, that I had so little self-worth that I thought I was to blame for a broken arm and his swearing at me so many times.

It turns out that a "monster" can get A LOT better. Tomorrow our family will enjoy a day at the State Fair. Tonight, we attended Mass and got a chuckle out of talking with our priest about Nancy Pelosi sticking her foot way down her mouth -- saying that the question of when life begins was a debate in Catholic teaching that wasn't settled until the last 50 years.

There have been many saints who have changed their lives. Even Saint Paul went from murdering Christians to preaching. A wise priest once told me, "He can change. You can't change him." I had to figure out he had to change himself, and then everything else has been up to him.

That's why I think that "Be still" thread is so powerful. To translate what it says into Catholic teaching, my husband has free will. The person who has the affair or is abusive is the one who has to recognize that he is the one who has to change. Sure, I've had to change, too. I've had to recognize that I can't change him! And, of course, I've tried to do what makes him happy, too.

Cherished

Don't lose yourSELF in the process.

Abuse and Affairs are similar and terrible agents. Both are betrayals of the fundamental aspects of Marriage.

Free Will is a dangerous gift. He chooses to Abuse, you choose to Stay....and believe me I DO understand.

EIGHT surgeries? Due to violent abuse...speaks volumes to the emotional and psychological abuse you have been through.

Do you remember WHO you Were before him?
WHO are you Now?

Cherished, I do not see any edification for readers or any healing by you telling us all about how your husband nearly killed you and beat you up for years. The only advice you give other people who are being abused is "be still".

Why dont you tell people to GET OUT if they are being abused! Your poor kids, no one to protect them from that monster. If you were "over the abuse", you would not be here detailing out the physical damaged he did to you. Yet you go on and on detailing it out for us.

This means YOU ARE NOT OVER IT. YOU HAVE NOT HEALED FROM HIM HITTING YOU. YOU ARE NOT REPORTING HIM FOR IT. AND YOU ARE NOT WHOLE YET. AT ALL.

ARE YOU NUTZ GIRL??? We dont buy the fact that this MONSTER is much improved. You are still wearing your injuries as some kind of sick BADGE OF HONOR and it is NOT admirable that you stayed to be beaten again and again. You should have left. And now you should leave him and get help for yourself.

How could you love a monster that beat you and ruined your health permanently? Are you nutz? Did he ever even say he was sorry for breaking your scull? Or anything?

SoulDragonN and Stellakat,

There's a reason why I married him in the first place. I never had a sense of self. When I was growing up, I was intimidated by my father into doing what he thought was best. My thoughts, feelings, beliefs, interests... just plain didn't matter.

No, I am not completely healed. But we are on that path.

And I am here because there are others like me. Mulan, for example. I have always seen in her a kinship. No, her husband wasn't physically abusive, but he taunted her about his girls. My husband's taunts about his OW were far worse than physical abuse.

I should have separated. While I didn't separate, I at least was able to "be still".

Cherished

Cherished,

I haven't posted to you before, but I want to say that I admire your composure and willingness to keep posting in a calm manner while under attack. Many on this board would be very defensive and angry. Thank you for being willing to explain your reasons, although many of us may not understand. Each of us has our own reasons for recovering our marriages whether is be kids, love for our spouse, lack of self respect, whatever, and I'm sure you have your own reasons.

Thanks for sharing your story....

Hope this will not be the last post and chance to read your thoughts.

I truly hope your path leads to happiness and if along the way your paths must diverge...you know you gave it your all.
My thoughts, feelings, beliefs, interests... just plain didn't matter.
They matter more than anything else.

I know that it is just me. I have a hard time reading about a precious human being being beaten, thier arm broken and thier scull ruined by a husband. And not reporting the beater to the authorities. And then having the children live in violence. AND THEN NOT LEAVING. And then happy they stayed.

Maybe it is just me. Anyone else might be OK with the abuse and the staying for more and more abuse. And hiding the abuser so he could abuse more. And keeping the police from knowing of the physical abuse by lying to the hospital about how the arm was broken and how "a fall downstairs" or whatever other lie, was was broke the front of the skull needing 8 surgeries.

I still want to know if this monster is SORRY!!! For what he did!

Stellakat,

He is sorry. I do appreciate your concern. When my very bright 9th grader was in 5th grade and on the math team, she got a D+ as a mid-quarter grade for math. She blew it. She handed in four math assignments late and got "0" for them because they were late. She was devastated.

She managed to pull up her grade to a B for the quarter. After that, she was more relaxed. She pulls very good grades, getting one B in the last two years (for late assignments).

Why am I saying this? Because one thing that I hope my children learn is that you can recover even from very bad mistakes. My husband made a slew of them. I shouldn't have stuck around. In the end, it was my willingness to leave him that I believe was a key reason for the turnaround. Even so, his willingness to work on being a good husband and father was his alone.


ChaiLover,

My mother had a lot of choice words about this guy beating up her daughter in front of her grandchildren. Six years ago, she told me she would "cheerfully murder" him. A few months ago, my father had to report to me that she was actually bragging about the job he got earlier this year. She hasn't seen him since D-day, which was also the day in 2002 that I told them I found out he had been having an affair and had broken my arm several months before because I had threatened to call this woman, but I think the time for them to see each other again is when we are happy together. Right now, we are calm together. It's a start.

Cherished

"She handed in four math assignments late and got "0" for them because they were late. She was devastated."

This illustrates the fact that she experienced the consequences of her behavior. She got a D. What if her teacher had given her an A?

I see you running interference in the consequences your husband should be experiencing.

Someone who broke his wife's arm and damaged her skull where she required numerous surgeries should not be volunteering in the school, SHOULD have a police record, and should NOT have a job that requires high security.

I hope your husband HAS changed, but in my experience, abusers don't change unless it the consequences of their abuse get painful for them.

Stellakat, It is nice to see YOU adding some sanity to this thread. I am with you 100%.

Anyone that stays with an abuser that did what this guy did is not acting in their children's or theior own best interest.

Some poeple on this board leave me shaking my head and wondering if their brains have been dumped in favor of Fluff.

SK, keep on this....you are dead right.