There are a ton of red flags in this paragraph.

1) He dismissed the basis for your suspicion by saying you were reaching.

2) Blamed you as the reason he couldn't be honest about her.

3) Admitted having intimate conversations about marriage with a female coworker.

4) Cultivated an inappropriate relationship with a woman while you were preparing to give birth to your child. In my mind, this constitutes a form of abandonment, when he should be focused solely on you, your health, and the amazing gift you are about to give him.

5) Claimed a minor reason for NC that can easily be ignored later. He should have said his relationship was disrespectful to his wife and he was ashamed of his actions.


I know Im preaching to the choir on this one because you KNOW that this was at the very least an emotional affair. I'm just trying to impress upon you the need to get HIM to understand this no matter what it takes. You seem to have discounted basically everything that has been suggested, but if this is swept under the rug, he will not understand or learn how to protect your marriage in the future.

Have you discussed marriage counseling with the Harleys or another pro-MB counselor?

Thank you for your reply. As gut wrenching as it is, I know you are correct. I am scared to death. I am afraid that if I push him too hard, it will create a whole separate group of issues and will push him away. Maybe away TO her.

He wants me to just forget about it and move on. He came home today to check on me because I am such a mess. I am still in my bath robe (well, its been a long day with 4 kids). He is talking about what to make for dinner, your typical everyday items, and I am just so hurt. I want to believe him, but I dont. I am expecting HIM to tell me the truth. I will contact the OW if he tells me the truth. I am pretty certain he will never admit it, though. I need PROOF (as in admission) before I just fly off the handle by contacting her. What if nothing REALLY did take place at all, since I dont have the full context, the full story. I want my ducks in a row before I do something like that. I just dont have it in me, to be honest.

Right now I cant afford the Harleys and there are no MBs in my area. I have called a few, but I am not getting the "vibe" I feel I need. I really want someone qualified.

There is an excellent book by Shirley Glass called "Not Just Friends". It deals with the very slippery slope of acquaintance->friend->affair partner.

Would he be willing to read that book? Or maybe you could print out the basic concepts from this site (I wouldn't bring him here yet, because you don't want to compromise your resource/refuge) and give them to him to read and discuss.

Also, its wise of you not to rush into the first MC's office that you come across. They can do a lot of harm and further reinforce your position as the irrational, jealous wife.

I have a feeling he has already cast me in that role. And that is giong to do a lot of damage if he isnt willing to accept his position and what he did to put me in mine.

Thank you, Andrew. If you dont mind, this is what I wrote up, stealing your red flags (because they were all of mine, as well) and sent this to him. I have again, put the ball in his court.

I have put the ball in your court in regards to marriage counseling, but nothing ever came of it. We dont have a choice now, so we need to get on it. These are the things that I wont be able to get over, (unless I have your full and complete committment = honesty):

You dismissed the basis of my suspicions by saying I am "reaching", making something out of nothing, making a mountain out of a molehill.

Blamed me as the reason you couldn't be honest about her (lying by ommission about your friendship).

Admitted having converstaions about marriage with her, but that it wasnt inappropriate.

Started (in my opinion) an inappropriate relationship with her while I was preparing to give birth to your child. In my mind, this constitutes a form of abandonment (but you blamed me for not being nice during this time and that I pushed you away), when you should have been focused solely on me, my health, and the amazing gift I was about to give you.

Claimed you told her that you could no longer be friends with her (that can easily be ignored, as you two have managed to figure out ways to work together consistently), but because you are her superior . I feel it should have been because your relationship was disrespectful to me.

Wrote a poem a few days after the retreat, referencing the hotel, the beach, the fire, your new "friendship" and expect me to believe it was a dream you had.

These are the huge red flags for me and if you are as dedicated as you say you are towards righting this, I want full cooperation from you - open and honest, no matter how much you think it will hurt me (or you want to save face). I am prepared to contact Anna if I have to - and I have a feeling you know I will.

You cant expect all of this to just disapper because you want it to, expect me to forget about it because you want me to. We cant (not just me) get past this to a real, tangible, healthy spot in our marriage until this gets all laid out there. I dont want to be heading for divorce court in a year because you werent willing to be up front. I dont ever want to head to divorce court, and this is my plan to make sure it doesnt take place. You need to be on board with me, I cant do this by myself.

Gdar...

If the truth doesn't come out there is FAR greater risk of him going back to her...Affairs THRIVE in secrecy and CRUMBLE in the light of day...Your marriage CAN survive your husband's ANGER, but it cannot and will not survive a continuing affair...As long as there is contact of ANY kind the affair CONTINUES on some level...Your husband can't withdraw from her if he still sees her...NC for LIFE is a MUST...There is NO other way...

You MUST go to the OWH with the information that you have...See what he has as well...Give him the opportunity to get into HER email account...He can be your greatest ally in saving your marriage and family...

Gdar, ask your husband when he is available for an appointment to take a polygraph...Do not discount the ultilitarian properties of a polygraph...It is quite likely that he will begin to give you the truth just at the mention of it...

I'm very sorry that you find yourself in this position...I know that you are scared...very understandable...but if you want to save your marriage you MUST take action...

Mrs. W

I am working on building some more courage.

There is one thing here that will not change, so I am going to have to work around it. For the rest of this upcoming school year, they will work together. I have demanded that he remove her from teh 2 teams she put herself on. I will be checking to be sure it happens. This is his last year at this school, then its onto middle school (he wants more family time, and the time committment in high school is intense for a young family) and then they will NEVER have a reason to see each other ever, EVER again. I need to make it through this year. Again, it isnt an option at this time for them to simply not work at the same place. She cant be fired (protected by union, and the fact she is a very good teacher), he cant just quit. I am not willing to put our family in a world of hurt by not being able to pay our bills when I DO have faith that there are other ways around this for now.

Hmm, thats a direct letter, which can be good or bad depending on the dynamic between the two of you right now. I assume from the tone that you have already had multiple conversations in which he continues to minimize your concerns and go about his life without concern for your state of mind?

It seems a bit more direct and ultimatum-ish than I would have expected this early in the process. I'll have to think about this some and hopefully some other vets will check in and offer their opinions. Its possible that right now a more "lets work together to build an amazing and secure marriage" approach would be the most successful, and you can leave the big guns for when he continues to not understand. Or do you think you have already passed this point?

Lastly, the General Questions II forum gets a lot more traffic. I think you can report your own post and ask a moderator to move it to that forum. You will probably get a lot more responses.

I'll think about this over dinner so I can hopefully offer some decent advice. As you can see by my post count, I'm still a relative newbie here as well.

Okay Gdar, you've now thrown the gauntlet...Rest assured, he WILL now be alerting her and letting her know that you are likely to contact her...You've given them the opportunity to get their stories straight...Forewarned is forearmed...

WITHOUT WARNING: CONTACT THE OWH IMMEDIATELY...BEFORE the OW spins her story to him...Painting you to be a "jealous nutjob of a wife"...

You must act Gdar...

Mrs. W<~~~A FWW who KNOWS firsthand that an infidel will DENY, DENY, DENY...LIE, LIE, LIE...

Courage is in the doing Gdar...You will not wake up and magically have it...You must go forward in your fear, THAT is courage...


Seems to me that your family will be in a much bigger world of hurt if it is DESTROYED Gdar...Divorce is FAR more costly and I don't just mean monetarily...

THEY MUST NOT WORK TOGETHER GDAR! I pray that you listen...

Mrs. W

Well CRAP!!!! I sent it to our joint account, read this and went and logged in. I was going to deleted it, but dang it, he already read it. Boooooo!!!! I didnt even think about that part - the part that I informed him I would talk to her. Crap, crap, crap.

Andrew, we are past it. I have to be direct or he doesnt.get.it.

I would contact OWH right now Gdar...Tell him what you have...Become allies with him...

Mrs. W

It is quite likely that the school board would separate your husband and OW Gdar...That is what needs to happen...

Mrs. W

GDar, courage is not a floating feeling that attacks some and not others. Courage is a DECISION to act. Only *YOU* have the power to make that decision. That is a CHOICE, not a magic feeling that may or may not infect you.


Your marriage may not survive this, though. With them staying together, fostering their affair, for a year, it is more likely they will become closer and more bonded.

A better solution would be to inform the director of Human Resources so they can separate your H and his girlfriend. See, they are also legally liable for his affair. Your H is placing the school district in legal jeopardy by sexually exploiting female subordinates.

Exposing at school will likely result in a MOVE or a termination, which will be the best thing for your marriage. Your H can get another job, he can't get another marriage.

But, I assure you that you probably will not be able to survive another year of this. Dr. Harley recommends going into Plan B after 3-4 WEEKS of Plan A. His continued contact at his job would call for Plan B. Women have nervous breakdowns and suffer years of post traumatic stress disorder from dealing with ongoing affairs like this, G-Dar.

Secondly, you are exposing your family to great harm by doing nothing to bust up this affair. This UNIMPEDED affair puts your marriage at great risk because it CEMENTS the affair while wearing down your mental health. You wrongly think you are protecting your family by protecting the affair, but it is the other way around.

You JEOPARDIZE the security of your family by PROTECTING HIS LOVE AFFAIR. And that is all you are doing, you are enabling his affair at the expense of your children's security.

Your best bet is to expose the affair and allow the school the opportunity to transfer either your H or his girlfriend.

WHAT? The OWH has not even been notified? Is this true, G-Dar?

Ahh ok, I somehow missed that part that you already sent it. You know your husband best. I take it he didn't immediately call you after he read it? Thats suspicious.

Gdar:

Sorry you have to be here.

Had you pointed this out 4 months ago in your other threads, I could have helped alot.

I know that the financial strain of divorcing for a SECOND time might be tough.

But do NOT let it hinder your response to this.

Your H LOVES the single life.

He just might get it.

LG

Have you called OWH yet? Why not?

I dont know who he is, what is his name is. I am working on it.

Andrew, when I sent those emails, he read them and called. He printed them out to bring them home so we could talk about them. He was crying when he called, going on and on about how he was sorry that I was so hurt and felt betrayed. He still denies it. Wont budge.

We have our first marriage counseling appt tomorrow. I have been researching for a long time, and this counselor's website was pretty extensive, listing his approaches - which are very in tune with MB, and had several other resources - including a link to that Glass book you referred me to (thank you again). He is younger, which was important to me, as we did go to someone before in his 60s and all he did was talk about HIS life experiences and how H and I could incorporate what worked for him for us. It was a bust.

Thing is, H said he was more than willing to head to counseling, but when I told him I had made an appt and we were going tomorrow, he instantly became very distant (not in an angry way) and stressed out. He even sat down on the couch with his head back and started rubbing his temples. I took this as him thinking he is going to get caught for REAL.

It sounds like you have a decent handle on what you are doing Gdar. Good work.

It sounds like you picked out a pretty good counselor, who will hopefully be able to get through his thick head that writing poems about a women who also talked about the "best night ever" is NOT nothing.

I think you should be prepared to find out that there was physical contact that night. Maybe not sex, but some intimate contact, even if it was only hand holding or hugging. If your husband maintains that this was nothing and nothing happened, I think a polygraph is in order. If he has nothing to hide, he won't mind taking it to give YOU peace of mind.

Keep us updated, but it sounds like you know what to do.

The poem DOES mention a look, a touch, a smile.... but also knowing him, if there was sex (his big EN), he would have incorporated that into it. But yeah - he did say "a touch". Ugh. I am going to puke. Again.