Back when I first came to MB, I was suspecting my H was having an EA with a co-worker. We have always been very close, very affectionate and spend a LOT of time together. He has always come home straight after work, never heading to go out, but choosing to come home to his family. We have had out ups and downs (as presented on the EN board), but this was not something I would have ever dreamed would take place in our marriage. I meet his ENs (according to him) and we are very passionate about each other.

When I was put on bed rest the last month of my pregnancy )baby is now almost 4 months old), my H pretty much checked out of our marriage. He was rarely home, working a TON, and when he was home, he was up all night on his laptop. Then he started insisting that he had to attend a bar with co-workers after work on Fridays for a new team they had formed. When I asked him why NOW, since I was on bedrest and still had 3 other kids to care for, he claimed it was because he needed to "get in" with these certain people for a huge project he was working on.

One night I had to go to the hospital for preterm labor. I was there for several hours and upon coming back home, doped up on meds to keep the labor at bay, he packed his bag for an overnight retreat at the beach for work. I didnt ask him to stay, because this was a retreat that he had been working on and attends each summer and since its his "baby", he couldnt put someone else in charge to run it. I accepted that, but in my heart, I was hoping he would have at least asked me if he thought he should stay, as the meds made me loopy. I take responsibility for not flat out asking him to stay, however.

For the first time ever (he goes on about 5 overnight retreats a year, with various different teams), I ask him who was attending the retreat. He names off the list, all men and then says "some older teacher gal". I assumed that meant it was one of the teachers a lot older than us, and didnt think much of it. I knew her name, and that was it. He only called me once the entire trip - and I had just been released from the hospital!! He called me 11 in the morning and had JUST GOT UP - how is that working??? They went out for a nice dinner, had a big bonfire on the beach (drinking together). It just didnt set well with me. When I ended up meeting her by chance one day when I went to his work, it clicked. She is just a few years older than we are. Petite, not unattractive - and she seemed very unnerved meeting me impromptu the way it happened. When I asked him again "is that the older gal on the retreat", he blushed and said yes. Then it all started to click.

I did something I had never done before and checked his email on his work laptop. What I found was unsettling. Several emails from this woman, gushing about how wonderful, fantastic and intelligent my husband was. A few about her loveless marriage, a few about how hard it is for her, and must be for him, to be married to people who do not understand their profession. He never wrote anything bad about me, as far as I found, but a lot of the emails were replies and the originals had been deleted, so lots of bits and pieces.

Then the big one. She sent him an email email telling him how the bonfire was teh best night of her life. Not her wedding day, not the births of her kids, but a night with MY husband??? I was in complete and utter shock. Complete. I confronted him immediately about what I found and he told me it was nothing. He didnt get upset, or angry or bothered that I checked his email. I explained to him pretty well, why I felt the need to look, and that my feelings were confirmed by what I found. He told me I was "reaching". He admitted that he lied about who she was because he was afraid I would get upset if I found out he had gotten a new female friend. They have worked together for years, even before we met, but she started having a crappy time in her marriage and started attaching herself to my H, then joined two of his teams - so instead of them seeing each other maybe twice a month, now they work together daily. She bombarded him with accolates and attention, both of what he was missing at home because I was sick and on bed rest for the last of my pregnancy. Not wanting to be the jerk husband who is flirting with with other women while his wife has his baby, he told me he would tell her that they could no longer be friends - strictly professional from here on out. He told her it was because she was his boss, not because I was uncomfortable with it. He still to this day claims it was NOTHING and that he does NOT have any feelings for her and never did.

Well, this is what I came across his laptop this weekend. This was from 4 months ago, but 3 days after the beach retreat they went on.

She calls me friend

Walking the beach n

Watching the fire

Spying her conversation

She calls me friend

Hearing her speech

Leaning against the tire

Could it be indiscretion

Friends hanging

A touch , a look, a smile

Why now

How could this be

Back at the Œtel

Avoiding the morals

Focusing on the present

Focusing on the freedom

She calls me friend

Same as saying no

Finally close

She calls me friend

Friends hanging

A touch, a look, a smile

Why now

How could this be

She calls me friend

She calls me friend


I confront him the moment I found this (I had to wake him, he was sleeping). He claims again, this is nothing, and that I am reaching - looking too much into it. Claims this was a poem he wrote because of a dream he had, so he decided to write it down (he had emailed it from a personal account of his to his work account).

What now? I told him that unless he was completely honest with me, and admits this was about her - that I wont be able to heal and move on. He 100% denies it.

**EDIT**

I know it hasnt gone physical. There are too many other people (that I trust) in attendance. They have not been alone.

He cant just go get a new job. He doesnt work in the type of profession that makes that possible.

He tells me she means nothing, never has. Tells me he wants nothing on earth more than to be with me forever - that he is in this for the long haul. He hasnt placed blame on me - because he flat out denies anything ever took place. He apologized for her inappropriate emails and claims he told her no more friendship. I havent seen anything to dispute that. This poem was from back when this all took place, so its opened a fresh wound for me. I do not believe they are carrying on anymore, but I am going to have a very, very hard to getting past this if he wont admit what this WAS at one point.

BTDT. I thought the same way too. Listen, if two people want to "get busy", they will find a way to do it. My FWW found several ways.



You are letting your fear speak for you. At the very least, contact the OWH and let him know what's going on.

Men don't right poems like that "from dreams". He's trying to gaslight you, and isn't doing a very good job of it either. This sounds like an EA, and quite likely it's a PA.

**************edit********

It makes me sick they work together. It really does.

Other than that brief time, I know where my H is at all times. Its just the way we are. I have never had an issue of his time being unaccounted for. We are on messenger all day, we talk several times a day, I know his schedule, etc... he works right down the street. I have never once been upset by him not being where he says he is...

*******************edit***********

I do not plan on exposing it to his boss or his parents. This is between us. I have no idea who or how to get ahold of the OW's husband. I dont even know his name.

I do not believe anything has taken place between them since I uncovered it and demanded he tell her they could no longer be anything but strictly professional. He put his attentions back to me as soon as I brought it out. I believe had things continued the way they were going and I didnt confront him, that something may have very well taken place. But I do believe I got to him in time.

Really what I want from him is to admit that he DID have feelings for her, that the poem was indeed, about her - before I can move on. He swears up and down nothing happened and I dont think he will ever admit even an ounce. THAT is what I cant deal with.

It sounds to me like you are rationalizing inaction. Why not just tell him you want him to take a polygraph to prove that nothing happened. His reaction will be telling. But don't bluff. Schedule the test and go through with it.

Are you serious? People actually do that?

**EDIT**

Gee, thanks. I didnt realize infidelity was so black and white.

G
Is your husband a teacher??

He is a high school principal.

Yes, people do that and it seems to almost always achieve the desired end result...i.e. core dump of details.

There are members of this board who have used a polygraph that has revealed multiple hidden affairs and lying concerning the affair in question.

I would recommend that you keep reading in the JFO and GQII forums here, and then reread your own posts. Your situation basically shouts serious emotional connection, and its extremely unlikely that it will be severed when you are not willing to implement any boundaries with your husband.

Men do not write poems about bonfires on the beach with other married women, if there is nothing going on. Maybe it didn't turn physical, but it is absolutely emotionally charged. The connection will only get stronger as they see each other as forbidden fruit, until they cannot take it anymore. There are literally HUNDREDS of stories here that illustrate this.

At the very least, you need to expose this to her husband. If you have her full name, you can do a person search on the internet to get her information. It may cost you $15, but you should also get a home phone number and relatives. Pick her husband out of the list and make the call. He will be able to monitor her and help keep them apart.

But in all honesty, if you are willing to let them continue working together, your fate is sealed. Its just a question of when.

Wow. If SHE is HIS boss, shes pretty up there in the ranks of teacherdom. Even if there is NO AFFAIR going on, her conduct is totally unprofessional and could cost her her job if HER superiors are notified.

I too, think something is going on. I'd keep snooping, regardless of what your husband says. I KNOW it is scary to read something that would break your heart. I take that chance all the time, and I can't stand it, but I GOTTA know the truth.

Good luck G.

Its a scary thought, Andrew. I wish I had a way to make him admit to me that he did have feelings for her at some point without me having to act like the police.

He is her boss. Not her direct boss, but one of her superiors.

I heard a quote once that people will believe something because they either want it to be true, or they fear it is true.

Despite evidence to the contrary, he has told you that it was nothing. I think you WANT this to be true so badly that it is clouding your judgment. If you let him off the hook and accept this answer, you do yourself a grave injustice. If you don't take whatever steps are necessary to deal with the fact that your husband got emotionally involved with another married woman, you can expect things to go fine right up until the moment he unexpectedly leaves.

Believe me, I know how much it sucks to have to play fidelity police, but you have only 1 chance to recover from this the right way.

There are a ton of red flags in this paragraph.

1) He dismissed the basis for your suspicion by saying you were reaching.

2) Blamed you as the reason he couldn't be honest about her.

3) Admitted having intimate conversations about marriage with a female coworker.

4) Cultivated an inappropriate relationship with a woman while you were preparing to give birth to your child. In my mind, this constitutes a form of abandonment, when he should be focused solely on you, your health, and the amazing gift you are about to give him.

5) Claimed a minor reason for NC that can easily be ignored later. He should have said his relationship was disrespectful to his wife and he was ashamed of his actions.


I know Im preaching to the choir on this one because you KNOW that this was at the very least an emotional affair. I'm just trying to impress upon you the need to get HIM to understand this no matter what it takes. You seem to have discounted basically everything that has been suggested, but if this is swept under the rug, he will not understand or learn how to protect your marriage in the future.

Have you discussed marriage counseling with the Harleys or another pro-MB counselor?

Thank you for your reply. As gut wrenching as it is, I know you are correct. I am scared to death. I am afraid that if I push him too hard, it will create a whole separate group of issues and will push him away. Maybe away TO her.

He wants me to just forget about it and move on. He came home today to check on me because I am such a mess. I am still in my bath robe (well, its been a long day with 4 kids). He is talking about what to make for dinner, your typical everyday items, and I am just so hurt. I want to believe him, but I dont. I am expecting HIM to tell me the truth. I will contact the OW if he tells me the truth. I am pretty certain he will never admit it, though. I need PROOF (as in admission) before I just fly off the handle by contacting her. What if nothing REALLY did take place at all, since I dont have the full context, the full story. I want my ducks in a row before I do something like that. I just dont have it in me, to be honest.

Right now I cant afford the Harleys and there are no MBs in my area. I have called a few, but I am not getting the "vibe" I feel I need. I really want someone qualified.

There is an excellent book by Shirley Glass called "Not Just Friends". It deals with the very slippery slope of acquaintance->friend->affair partner.

Would he be willing to read that book? Or maybe you could print out the basic concepts from this site (I wouldn't bring him here yet, because you don't want to compromise your resource/refuge) and give them to him to read and discuss.

Also, its wise of you not to rush into the first MC's office that you come across. They can do a lot of harm and further reinforce your position as the irrational, jealous wife.

I have a feeling he has already cast me in that role. And that is giong to do a lot of damage if he isnt willing to accept his position and what he did to put me in mine.

Thank you, Andrew. If you dont mind, this is what I wrote up, stealing your red flags (because they were all of mine, as well) and sent this to him. I have again, put the ball in his court.

I have put the ball in your court in regards to marriage counseling, but nothing ever came of it. We dont have a choice now, so we need to get on it. These are the things that I wont be able to get over, (unless I have your full and complete committment = honesty):

You dismissed the basis of my suspicions by saying I am "reaching", making something out of nothing, making a mountain out of a molehill.

Blamed me as the reason you couldn't be honest about her (lying by ommission about your friendship).

Admitted having converstaions about marriage with her, but that it wasnt inappropriate.

Started (in my opinion) an inappropriate relationship with her while I was preparing to give birth to your child. In my mind, this constitutes a form of abandonment (but you blamed me for not being nice during this time and that I pushed you away), when you should have been focused solely on me, my health, and the amazing gift I was about to give you.

Claimed you told her that you could no longer be friends with her (that can easily be ignored, as you two have managed to figure out ways to work together consistently), but because you are her superior . I feel it should have been because your relationship was disrespectful to me.

Wrote a poem a few days after the retreat, referencing the hotel, the beach, the fire, your new "friendship" and expect me to believe it was a dream you had.

These are the huge red flags for me and if you are as dedicated as you say you are towards righting this, I want full cooperation from you - open and honest, no matter how much you think it will hurt me (or you want to save face). I am prepared to contact Anna if I have to - and I have a feeling you know I will.

You cant expect all of this to just disapper because you want it to, expect me to forget about it because you want me to. We cant (not just me) get past this to a real, tangible, healthy spot in our marriage until this gets all laid out there. I dont want to be heading for divorce court in a year because you werent willing to be up front. I dont ever want to head to divorce court, and this is my plan to make sure it doesnt take place. You need to be on board with me, I cant do this by myself.

Gdar...

If the truth doesn't come out there is FAR greater risk of him going back to her...Affairs THRIVE in secrecy and CRUMBLE in the light of day...Your marriage CAN survive your husband's ANGER, but it cannot and will not survive a continuing affair...As long as there is contact of ANY kind the affair CONTINUES on some level...Your husband can't withdraw from her if he still sees her...NC for LIFE is a MUST...There is NO other way...

You MUST go to the OWH with the information that you have...See what he has as well...Give him the opportunity to get into HER email account...He can be your greatest ally in saving your marriage and family...

Gdar, ask your husband when he is available for an appointment to take a polygraph...Do not discount the ultilitarian properties of a polygraph...It is quite likely that he will begin to give you the truth just at the mention of it...

I'm very sorry that you find yourself in this position...I know that you are scared...very understandable...but if you want to save your marriage you MUST take action...

Mrs. W

I am working on building some more courage.

There is one thing here that will not change, so I am going to have to work around it. For the rest of this upcoming school year, they will work together. I have demanded that he remove her from teh 2 teams she put herself on. I will be checking to be sure it happens. This is his last year at this school, then its onto middle school (he wants more family time, and the time committment in high school is intense for a young family) and then they will NEVER have a reason to see each other ever, EVER again. I need to make it through this year. Again, it isnt an option at this time for them to simply not work at the same place. She cant be fired (protected by union, and the fact she is a very good teacher), he cant just quit. I am not willing to put our family in a world of hurt by not being able to pay our bills when I DO have faith that there are other ways around this for now.

Hmm, thats a direct letter, which can be good or bad depending on the dynamic between the two of you right now. I assume from the tone that you have already had multiple conversations in which he continues to minimize your concerns and go about his life without concern for your state of mind?

It seems a bit more direct and ultimatum-ish than I would have expected this early in the process. I'll have to think about this some and hopefully some other vets will check in and offer their opinions. Its possible that right now a more "lets work together to build an amazing and secure marriage" approach would be the most successful, and you can leave the big guns for when he continues to not understand. Or do you think you have already passed this point?

Lastly, the General Questions II forum gets a lot more traffic. I think you can report your own post and ask a moderator to move it to that forum. You will probably get a lot more responses.

I'll think about this over dinner so I can hopefully offer some decent advice. As you can see by my post count, I'm still a relative newbie here as well.

Okay Gdar, you've now thrown the gauntlet...Rest assured, he WILL now be alerting her and letting her know that you are likely to contact her...You've given them the opportunity to get their stories straight...Forewarned is forearmed...

WITHOUT WARNING: CONTACT THE OWH IMMEDIATELY...BEFORE the OW spins her story to him...Painting you to be a "jealous nutjob of a wife"...

You must act Gdar...

Mrs. W<~~~A FWW who KNOWS firsthand that an infidel will DENY, DENY, DENY...LIE, LIE, LIE...

Courage is in the doing Gdar...You will not wake up and magically have it...You must go forward in your fear, THAT is courage...


Seems to me that your family will be in a much bigger world of hurt if it is DESTROYED Gdar...Divorce is FAR more costly and I don't just mean monetarily...

THEY MUST NOT WORK TOGETHER GDAR! I pray that you listen...

Mrs. W

Well CRAP!!!! I sent it to our joint account, read this and went and logged in. I was going to deleted it, but dang it, he already read it. Boooooo!!!! I didnt even think about that part - the part that I informed him I would talk to her. Crap, crap, crap.

Andrew, we are past it. I have to be direct or he doesnt.get.it.

I would contact OWH right now Gdar...Tell him what you have...Become allies with him...

Mrs. W

It is quite likely that the school board would separate your husband and OW Gdar...That is what needs to happen...

Mrs. W

GDar, courage is not a floating feeling that attacks some and not others. Courage is a DECISION to act. Only *YOU* have the power to make that decision. That is a CHOICE, not a magic feeling that may or may not infect you.


Your marriage may not survive this, though. With them staying together, fostering their affair, for a year, it is more likely they will become closer and more bonded.

A better solution would be to inform the director of Human Resources so they can separate your H and his girlfriend. See, they are also legally liable for his affair. Your H is placing the school district in legal jeopardy by sexually exploiting female subordinates.

Exposing at school will likely result in a MOVE or a termination, which will be the best thing for your marriage. Your H can get another job, he can't get another marriage.

But, I assure you that you probably will not be able to survive another year of this. Dr. Harley recommends going into Plan B after 3-4 WEEKS of Plan A. His continued contact at his job would call for Plan B. Women have nervous breakdowns and suffer years of post traumatic stress disorder from dealing with ongoing affairs like this, G-Dar.

Secondly, you are exposing your family to great harm by doing nothing to bust up this affair. This UNIMPEDED affair puts your marriage at great risk because it CEMENTS the affair while wearing down your mental health. You wrongly think you are protecting your family by protecting the affair, but it is the other way around.

You JEOPARDIZE the security of your family by PROTECTING HIS LOVE AFFAIR. And that is all you are doing, you are enabling his affair at the expense of your children's security.

Your best bet is to expose the affair and allow the school the opportunity to transfer either your H or his girlfriend.

WHAT? The OWH has not even been notified? Is this true, G-Dar?

Ahh ok, I somehow missed that part that you already sent it. You know your husband best. I take it he didn't immediately call you after he read it? Thats suspicious.

Gdar:

Sorry you have to be here.

Had you pointed this out 4 months ago in your other threads, I could have helped alot.

I know that the financial strain of divorcing for a SECOND time might be tough.

But do NOT let it hinder your response to this.

Your H LOVES the single life.

He just might get it.

LG

Have you called OWH yet? Why not?

I dont know who he is, what is his name is. I am working on it.

Andrew, when I sent those emails, he read them and called. He printed them out to bring them home so we could talk about them. He was crying when he called, going on and on about how he was sorry that I was so hurt and felt betrayed. He still denies it. Wont budge.

We have our first marriage counseling appt tomorrow. I have been researching for a long time, and this counselor's website was pretty extensive, listing his approaches - which are very in tune with MB, and had several other resources - including a link to that Glass book you referred me to (thank you again). He is younger, which was important to me, as we did go to someone before in his 60s and all he did was talk about HIS life experiences and how H and I could incorporate what worked for him for us. It was a bust.

Thing is, H said he was more than willing to head to counseling, but when I told him I had made an appt and we were going tomorrow, he instantly became very distant (not in an angry way) and stressed out. He even sat down on the couch with his head back and started rubbing his temples. I took this as him thinking he is going to get caught for REAL.

It sounds like you have a decent handle on what you are doing Gdar. Good work.

It sounds like you picked out a pretty good counselor, who will hopefully be able to get through his thick head that writing poems about a women who also talked about the "best night ever" is NOT nothing.

I think you should be prepared to find out that there was physical contact that night. Maybe not sex, but some intimate contact, even if it was only hand holding or hugging. If your husband maintains that this was nothing and nothing happened, I think a polygraph is in order. If he has nothing to hide, he won't mind taking it to give YOU peace of mind.

Keep us updated, but it sounds like you know what to do.

The poem DOES mention a look, a touch, a smile.... but also knowing him, if there was sex (his big EN), he would have incorporated that into it. But yeah - he did say "a touch". Ugh. I am going to puke. Again.

Do you have any suggestions of what I should "take" to our appt? I have a timeline written down, with the things I have found, dating back to April (but I didnt actually discover until May) and plan on taking that. I am afraid of overwhelming both the counselor and my H at the very 1st appt, however.... any tips would be appreciated. Thank you.

I would take every bit of evidence you have. If you have other people telling you things IRL, jot down what they said on a piece of paper.

That way, you can get the 'question' of whether he did something inappropriate over and done with in the first 10 minutes, so he doesn't spend the rest of the hour trying to prove his innocence.

We did that with a crooked contractor who quit on our job. Got him to come back to the house, thought he was going to sweettalk his way out of it, until we pulled out an entire notebook of us getting scammed AND a video tape of us doing the work ourselves! Changed his tune immediately, cos he saw courtrooms ahead. (Turns out, he'd done it to 50 other families, including a DA; got sent to prison.)

Anyway, take control as soon as you go in. Make it plain you're working on why he did what he did and how to not do it again.

Gdar, I am glad that you're getting such expert help. I would also suggest reading and studying SAA, so you know what exposure, Plan A/B, NC, EPs, and recovery look like.

I'm praying for you and your family, and admire the courage it takes to take these steps you have.

(((Gdar)))

Wow, Cat. The same thing happened to us when we were building our house. Scammed us to teh tune of $67k and we had to finish it by ourselves and it took an extra YEAR! He managed to walk away scot-free by filing bankruptcy (and naming us) and fleeing the area. We made it through that hell together, we can make it through this.

This explains a lot GDAR. Why he does not respect you around the house, why he ignores your and the kids needs, etc.

I am sure he gets all excited at work around "HER" (being around her, working with her, talking to her, smelling her perfume and the shampoo in her hair) and then comes home to bang YOU. SHE is his PORN. So lifelike. She is alive PORN for him.

You are the "mother", "caregiver" to him and the kids and SHE is the passionate lover.

You can bet he has kissed and boinked her while you gave birth in pain and agony. No wonder he pretends he is single and acts like a little boy leaving his clothes and shoes around the house and the drawers open.

I would get a polygraph pronto. He is a real horses A--!

Not really neccessary, Stella. I am here to move forward, not to have it thrown back in my face.

You are right. Here, I will hate him for you and you can go forward with your plan. That way hate wont get in the way for you....lol.

I gotta get off this board, I hate people who hurt others.

Well, I asked the counselor about bringing in discussion points (and my notebook with the timeline), he said no. So I have to remember in my head and replay it, or??

The counselor might want to avoid the situation in which your husband feels like he is on trial. "Your honor, I submit to you exhibit A, one love poem written by the accused on..."

You will just have to describe the details from memory, which I'm sure won't be a problem.

How have you and husband been doing today?

When he is home, I am ok. But the last 2 times we made love, I bawled like a baby during (the first time) and after (the 2nd). I cant let go of what he wrote about another woman, which of course, is to be expected since I did just find out.

He still denies it.

So, when he leaves work each morning, I bawl my eyes out some more. I am ready for our counseling session tonight, but scared he wont be up front and put on a show. This is a highly intelligent man who speaks for a living. He is good at putting on aires and saying the right things to make himself look like an angel. The last time we went to a counselor (we went once, and it was someone he knew) he was all smiles, talked about how he knows he has a lot to work on, took all sorts of responsibility - all to make the counselor think he was this fantastic, doting husband. It pissed me off to no end, because it was all for show. I need him to GET REAL, be open and honest and raw, and I am afraid he wont be able to. He has too much of a need for people to think he is perfect.

Oh, and there is a friend of H's that I trust immensely - and he is a big fan of our marriage (he is going through his wife leaving him without warning). I think I am going to expose to him, because he is one of my H only friend with any dang morals - and we are also both friends with him. I think if he knew what was going on with the EA, he would call my H out and talk him back into reality.

Is this a good idea?

Can this get moved?

Thank you.

Did you ask him about a polygraph? Sweetie, I hate to say it, but I think something DID happen that night, something major. There's just too many red flags waving.

His reaction to the polygraph will be a big tell.

I wouldn't worry to much right now about what he might do in the counseling session. This is your interview basically to see how the counselor handles your situation, so just lay out the truth as you know it and see how the counselor reacts to what WH says.

From what you have told us, any counselor worth their salt should be able to see through the BS. Its obvious that something was going on between them, at least emotionally. Did you ever pitch the book "Not Just Friends" to your husband? Its carried in most big book stores so it shouldn't be hard to find.

Good luck tonight!

Thank you, Andrew. I am trying hard not to stem out on this, but its so consuming. I talked to him about that book, and that other book you mentioned and he told me that there was nothing going on, so there is no point in reading something like that. That I have no choice but to believe him, and he refuses to admit to something he simply did not do.

If he doesnt admit it, I will NEVER be able to recover from this. I told him that - but he is still holding tight.

If I bring up a polygraph test, he will think I am just out of my mind and the crazy, insecure, jealous wife that no one wants to have. Its a Catch 22 for me. I know this man, so its not that black and white.

Gdar, did you ever have that experience as a kid? Did something wrong, lied to your parents, and then got angry at them at not believing you? I mean, how could they doubt you?! Their own kid?!

Your H can handle you raising the bar, Gdar. I'm not giving advice, just telling you, he can handle it. Have you gotten SAA yet? And the Shirley Glass book. Whether he's reading them or not, it's time for you to be. Whether it's an EA or a PA or an almost EA, the SAA book will still give you insight that will impact your marriage. It's powerful stuff!

Thanks, ears. I do plan on reading it.

Right now I am just making sure I have all of my "evidence" in order so I can lay it all out there and ask my husband "how can I come to ANY other conclusion but an EA".

Ugh. Its so heartbreaking to find this stuff. He downloaded 3 songs with her damn name in them (and other songs about wanting what you know you shouldnt have) the day before his birthday. On his birthday, he went to drinks with his "team". The team she is on. While I was at home on bed rest. Ugh. I hate this discovery crap. Its so awful.

ETA: I cannot come across anything on this site about how to deal if your H wont admit the EA. That would be really helpful for me right now. Everything I read is about an affair being open and both acknowledge it...

There's a thread in this section by someone called KLD. She thought 'never MY husband' and then found out he had been lying to her for a long time. The way she handled the rest was just textbook perfect. The best thing she did was talk to him as though she KNEW he was guilty no matter what he said. It worked; he caved and confessed.

I do the same thing with my D18 - go to her and say you did such and such, she tries to deny it, I say don't try that with me, I KNOW; she caves.

Just go forward assuming he did something. EA or PA, it doesn't matter, he strayed at least mentally. You NEED that position of strength to stand up to him.

Gdar, this is where Alanon helps. The truth is the truth whether H acknowledges it aloud or not.

Gdar, you're not alone. There are many here whose spuses deny, deny, deny. I encourage you to look up rltraveled threads. Or search on "polygraph", and I think you'll find a lot of relevant threads. Because that's what works with your situation. I'm glad you're over here, with the veterans. I have so much hope for you. It took some time to gather the stength to act on this and other things that you've known for some time. I'm very proud of you, and happy for your kids that they have you to defend your family.

((Gdar)))I am so sorry you are here. You have already been getting some very good advice but I just wanted to welcome you to MB.

My H also had an EA. When I discovered the phone calls and TMs, my H also tried to tell me it was just a "friendship". When I exposed it and any time we discussed it, I called it what it was: an emotional affair. And I stated that the relationship was a threat to our marriage. You do not need to argue these things with him but just state it as if it is fact regardless of his response.

That being said, your H's total denial of having any feelings for her despite your discovery of the poem and songs says to me that perhaps he desperately wants things to continue on the way they have been without any interference from you (he wants to continue seeing OW at work).

Please be aware that each time they have contact, it endangers your M...each time they have contact, it lessens your chances of having a successful R. This is not the same as other hardships you face in a M. A's are an addiction and continued contact allows the fantasy to flourish. My H once defogged fully agreed that he was addicted to OW and now tells me I saved him from himself by exposing and by having a NC boundary. You are taking a huge risk with him coninuing at his job...not only for your M but for your emotional well-being.

Lastly, I hope you will reconsider your exposure plan. You have some great people posting to you that can really help you get your exposure ducks in a row and a good exposure is the best tool you have for bursting your H and his OW's fantasy bubble...that's the most important thing you can do right now, over and above MC.

Good luck.

Thank you for the vote of confidence, Ears. You have always been a source of encouragement for me and I appreciate it.

So, update. Last night was our 1st counseling session.

We like our counselor - he will be a good fit for us. He is our age, has a calming nature, doesnt do all of the talking or make us talk - he guides us. Stops us if it gets off track, puts us back where we need to be. He remains focused. Gave us 2 small "homework projects" that are not lame or overwhelming.

Here is the thing, though. I didnt expose the EA. I didnt bring it up. I was planning on it, but that hour goes by WHIP fast!! I wanted to set the ground work for HOW we got to the place we are now - and that has been 2.5 solid years of a cycle we cant break. So, we dicussed the cycle and the issues surrounding what brought us to counseling BEFORE I even discovered the EA. My H was surprised I didnt bring it up, but I am comfortable with the work we did do, and it lays it out for the next session (in 5 days) to be about the EA.

It went well. He did NOT put on aires, he was real - he was himself. I could tell that the counselor really put him at ease and we both felt safe. We walked out much happier than we thought we would be. I can see it in his eyes, the remorse, the determination to make this right with us. I know he loves me. I know we both share a part in how we got to this place. We dont blame the other. He knows I will not accept his past behaviors and I will not let him off the hook. I told him exactly what I will be bringing up next Wednesday.

I have started my "good list", per the counselors request. I already have 3 things on it, just from last night and this morning alone. I really hope this gets us on the right path and we STAY the course.

Now, however, as safe as I felt at the appt, I still have the tug going on about the OW. A NC has not been established, and I now everyone disagrees with me here. I also believe not every situation is exactly the same and one move doesnt garner the same result for every single marriage. I also dont want to be in denial. Tonight is his high school's first football game, and he is working it (each sporting event has to have a principal on site). Since I know that the OW's schedule on Fridays is social - to be with teachers (and used to be my H until I stopped that) to hang out, I have it stuck in my head she might attend this game to see my husband. I have no idea if they have talked, or if she knows at all he will be there, but today is their "team" project, and they will be working together all day (ugh), so I am assuming it will come up, and she will learn he will be there. I am trying to secure a sitter for the kids and then "surprise" him by showing up. I am going to pretend (I hate lying by ommission, but I have to for my sanity here) that I missed him and just wanted to catch the game with him, so I got a sitter and went. If she is there, if she is ANYWHERE NEAR HIM, I will call her out. In front of everyone. I have this vision in my head, that I show up - she is sitting next to him and I tell her calmly "go home to YOUR husband and stay the [censored] away from mine". And then take my husband home and demand that he gets her moved to a new school, or I will have him leave our home (Plan B). I DO NOT WANT him to leave. I dont want him anywhere but by my side, but if I have to, I will do it.

Stella? You usually have some good advice. I know you might not be in a good space today, but I usually do appreciate your input. I hope all is well.

I am doing a search and getting either nothing, or an error...

Gdar, I just bumped her thread for you.

If It were me, I would go to the game also.

But I would also call the counselor privately if you want and tell them about your cheaterman.(I dont know if that is a good idea)

Get a polygraph "truth test" done on your husband at the very least and bring the results to counseling.

He needs a polygraph and maybe a PI following him. I dont trust your husband at all.

The counselor said he will let us know when we speak with him seperately, but that the two of us are "one" client.

I am not going to get a PI for the simple fact that unless he is at work, he is home. We only live 4 miles from his school and we usually talk the whole time he is in the car on the way home. He does not call her or text her, when he removed her from his phone like he promised he would back in May, he did. I check the records and there has been no contact via phone. I am sure he deleted any and all email exchanges between them, however. Its a school-issued Macbook. I do not ever have concerns that he isnt where he says he is. Before I exposed, I would check up on him when he said he had to go to work on a weekend (which is pretty common). He was there, she was not. I would drop by and surprise him with lunch, or whatever - and he was doing just as he said he was. Working. I have never caught him doing anything and lying about it. We really do spent all of our spare time together, so I do not believe the EA is still continuing.

I called and asked my mom to watch the kids so I could go to the game, but she has plans. Since she sat for us last night for our session, and will continue to sit for the rest, I didnt ask her to cancel her plans. The only other sitters we have are students of H, and he is the one that has their numbers. If I ask for their number, he will know I am trying to set up a sitter tonight - and I want to catch him off guard. I dont expect to find her at the game, to be honest, but I still want to check.

How about a neighbor, friends from church, or your kids' friends' parents? You need to line this up anyhow for some date nights.

Hubby is good at arranging date nights, and we always hire students we trust (that he has mentored), so he has their #s, I dont. I should, though - so I can surprise him with a date night instead of the other way around.

My best friend's son broke his leg yesterday - bad enough to need surgery, so she is tending to him. My other best friend is out of town. We dont know any of the neighbors well enough (but one, but they just had their 3 rd child and are busy themsleves, not to mention the H is the ex football coach of my H's school, so I dont want to give him a heads up, either).

I am thinking, I am thinking!!

ETA: I could take the baby in the front carrier, then that narrows down just needing a sitter for the 2.5 yr old. Taking her with is not an option. He would spot us coming a mile away, and give him enough time to move away from her if she is there, kwim?

If your mom knew what was up, would she take the 2 year old with her?

why do you have to make a big secret about going to the game?

I think you are continuing a bad pattern for your M, where you are planning to show up as a surprise, and you are planning to lie to him about "just showing up because you missed him". You know it is a lie, and yet you are planning to say it anyway.

If it were me - I would just tell him that you are planning to go, and you would like to sit with him. There is nothing wrong with going to support your H's school, and in fact I think that you need to find recreational activites like this two participate in.

and you can simply say something like:
1. I would like to go to the game tonight, and sit with you. I know you think I am being silly, but I would like to be sitting right next to you, if any woman get to thinking that they would like to get their hands on my H!!

Or

2. I would like to start doing things with you. I don't want to stay at home while you go out to social functions any more. I am planning to go to the football game tonight. where shall I meet you?

Do not ask him if it is ok for you to go. tell him you are going.


Just me, but I think it is best to be up front with him.

I also wonder if you could take your kids with you? I know the baby is awfully young, but I spent many years taking my own kids to football games. pack along a few toys. I would imagine that a lot of your H's students will help you entertain the kids.

She knows why I want to go. She told me she had plans already. Taking a 2.5 yr old with her wouldnt work (especially not that close to bed time). Maybe she will cancel and do it, but I dont know - so I need to get going on back up plan.

Its not a big plan, but her and her LOSER boyfriend go out to dinner every Fri night. I dont allow any of my kids around this guy - he isnt allowed in my home, isnt allowed anywhere NEAR me. They have been together for 16 years - my mom left my dad for him (dad is an alcoholic who never paid an ounce of attention to my mom or I). He proceeded to cheat on her for the first FIVE years they were together, and she always went back. Swindles her out of money, she always goes back. Mooched off of her, lives in her house when its convenient, and she always goes back.

So no, I wont put my 2.5 yr old in a position to be around that tool.

Wow, sorry. I totally unloaded. LOL

Oh, I completely agree with you, and have done this in the past. This isnt social for him, this is his night to "work" the game for discipline. Not a shock that he busts at least 5 kids a game for drinking/drug use.

I completely understand what you are saying, yes! We attend the local university games together every year - we have had season tickets for our entire relationship. We do those together socially.

This, however - for my peace of mind. I need to show up and surprise him and NOT see this woman sitting by him. I need that. I dont feel that she will be there, but because of the poem I found (that is 5 months old), I still have a small voice in my head saying that she will make her way to this game to be with him (she pursued him).

I was having this issue, too. I don't think ANY situation benefits from being dishonest, even for reasons such as this. Well, I take that back. I believe in hiring a PI and not telling him. But I don't believe in actually saying a lie about why you're showing up. It only puts you in shade territory, too.

Understood. BTDT. Explains a lot, btw.

Hmmm, what if its half a lie? LOL I DO want to see him and spend time with him at the game! I think hiring a PI is lying by ommission, so I dont see the difference.

About what?

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean it in a mean way. I mean the way our moms chose men who don't respect us helps me understand why we picked men that wouldn't respect us. Not when we got them, anyhow. Good thing there is a plan here to recreate that mutual love and respect where we lost it before. I think you'll correct me if I'm wrong about you. But my H didn't expect to have to negotiate a win-win, expected me to go along even when he knew I didn't want to.

Yeah, my H expects me to do things that he wants to do, even when he knows its nothing something I am up for. I personally LOATHE his best friend, but I am nice and cordial to him. He and his (nice, but dull) wife have a baby the same age as ours, and H is always trying to plan us to get together, but I dont want to because his friend is a complete moron (with no moral compass, even though he totes about like he has one). So, since I dont like seeing them socially (even though we do quite regularly, because I want him to enjoy time with his friends), that is why he was having all those stupid overnights at his place, or having him come and crash here. Until I told the friend that he is no longer welcome to sleep at my house.

If you suspect your H or W is having an affair, it's your duty to protect your marriage. According to MB, you have to learn all you can, expose, and do Plan A while you wait for your spouse to come out of the fog and see the truth of what they did. In other words, you are 'saving' your spouse from the craziness that has gripped him.

On the other hand, if you go up to your H and say, 'Oh, by the way, will you take this laundry to the cleaners for me?' and inside the bag is a hidden recorder, you are implicitly deceiving him. That hurts marriages because if it comes out, he won't be able to trust you.

"Andrew, when I sent those emails, he read them and called. He printed them out to bring them home so we could talk about them. He was crying when he called, going on and on about how he was sorry that I was so hurt and felt betrayed. He still denies it. Wont budge."

You do know WHY he was crying right?
Becuase he's worried that you will take a stand, expose the adultery, confront the OW... and threaten 'their' relationship.
He's so addicted to her that the thought of you taking action to put a stop to it had him sobbing - that is a big red flag.

And/or he was hoping his emotional display would discourage you from taking action, plus maybe even make you feel guilty for noticing the big red flags.

You are being gaslighted and managed.
You're giving him more rope to hang himself with.
You're allowing her more time to get her claws of addiction deeper into his soul... or time for her to get pregnant...

Her husband deserves to be given all the info you've collected so far ASAP. Hopefully he will take action before it's too late.
I certainly understand why you'd want to delay taking action but IMHO you are not taking this seriously enough. If you weren't ready to follow a plan of action to end the adultery, then it probably would have been better to not let your husband know that you know anything yet.

If there really isn't anything going on between your husband and the OW it's doubtful he'd start sobbing about.

BTW, why would you have to give ANY reason as to why you would show up at a game? And if she didn't happen to be there with him, hopefully you would realize that doesn't necessarily prove they aren't still involved with each other.

Why didn't you tell the MC about your husband's involvement with the OW?!?!?

I get you. I dont believe its continuing, but when we have been betrayed, I think it will always be a challenge to feel completely secure and safe again. That is what I am struggling with. He has given me no reason since I confronted him, that anything continued. I have found nothing dated past May to indicate ANY devious activity. Finding the poem last weekend sucked, but it was dated April. It wasnt NEW, but it was new to me, kwim?

I never said he was sobbing. This was an EA, not a PA - he is not going to knock her up. For crying out loud, I am living this right now. I would like to believe (actually, I DO believe) that my husband got teared up because he LOVES me and is hurt that he has hurt me. IT IS possible, you know. Not everyone looks for reasons to continue to ruin their marriage. He made a mistake, and I am going to believe he is feels remorseful until he gives me a reason not to. And since May he hasnt given me a reason not to.

I have confronted him on ALL accounts - all the info I have seen, I have exposed to him. There hasnt been anything that I have found that I have not told him about. When I exposed, all communication (that I can find or have access to) has been stopped. I am aware that they work together, but thankfully, I do not feel its ever alone. Its just not the type of environment they are in. I have always stopped by freely with the kids to say hi to him and the staff, and he has never once come across like he was being caught.

Again, this is an EA that I believe was taking place in April and May. I confront him in May and I havent found a singls shred of evidence - including his behavior - that leads me to believe it is still ongoing.

ETA: Yes, I know he lied. Admits that he DID exchange emails with her that were not work related, apologzied for interacting with her in a way that could (would) lead to an EA, admits that he lied about who she was, her age and that they were friends. He will not, however, admit (because I am not so sure in his mind he think its an affair at all) that he had an EA with her. This I cant deal with. Once I can get him to admit that it was indeed, an EA, it will be hard for me to move on. I do not trust HER, and I wouldnt put it past her at ALL to show up to the game. And yes, it sucks, and I hate feeling this way, but I want to see for my own eyes that she isnt there.

Now, if she IS there, any ideas of how I should handle the situation. Say something to her (or not), call them both out (or not), wait until we get home to talk - or is it ok for me to tell her she better look for another school to teach in, because I will press until it happens, etc.....

Not going to the game. He asked our 11 yr old son to go with him, so I am feeling confident again. He would never take him if he was doing something inappropriate - and certainly would know better than to introduce him to HER, as my son would tell me every little detail of their evening (he remembers EVERYTHING and has a steel trap for a memory for names).


Then he asked if I wanted to go and help search bags with him (I help him do this at prom every year).

Whew. I needed this reassurance.

Thank you all for your support during this rollercoaster!

Gdar, I hope that you follow through with going to the MC, and don't let his one decision to take your boy to assuage your concern by itself. MB is a great program and can make a huge difference in your marriage. Where you can thoughtfully request your DH to take DS to the game if that makes you feel better. How do you two respond in general to thoughtful requests? With a respectful, solution oriented attitude, looking for the win-win?

Is the MC familiar with the Basic Concepts?

We both respond well to Thoughtful Requests. Always have. We just have to be cognizant about keeping them thoughtful.

Again, I do not suspect anything continued, I am just trying to recover from the brief period.

Yes, we are going to continue MC - have an appt each Thursday for 6 weeks. $85 a pop, but we are confident this is going to be good for us.

This weekend was great. The counselor asked us to keep a "Good List", a log, if you will, of the things we are noticing and appreciating about the other. I cant believe that I already have 4 solid pages since last Thurs (in a traditional composition notebook)! We are not allowed to share the list with each other, but hand it over to the counselor at the start of our next session, he will review, then we all go over them together. I enjoyed doing this, as it kept spirits high and focused on all that great things I DO love about my H.

Having one of those days. Everything is a trigger. I cant even listen to music anymore, without thinking the song I am hearing is a song he downloaded while imagining HER. Our 2.5 yr old started preschool at his school's kid program, she goes twice a week. Now going there is a huge trigger. The door we walk into to drop her off/pick her up is the same doorway I met the OW.

Just needed to get that out.

Yesterday I was at the hospital waiting for a friend's son to come out of surgery and each and every man that walked by me I thought "I wonder if HE is a cheater". I was seriously thinking all men are. Mine didnt even have a PA, but this EA business is just as painful.

Thanks for listening.

Remember that recovery is a process. You WILL have bad days. Don't ever make decisions on bad days. Just wait, and things will usually get better.

When we love our spouse, we want to think the best about them. It is good to accentuate the positive, and not dwell on the negative if we want a happy marriage, BUT ONLY IF THE A IS NOT ONGOING.

I think you would do well to watch him for a while until you know for sure. If the A has been taken underground, it will be more difficult to find any thing out, but the damage to your relationship will be ongoing.

Trust is something that you don't just give to him, he earns it. If he really cares about you, and if you are important to him, he will want to follow Harley's four rules.
The Four Rules

Especially the rule of Care, and the rule of Protection. If he is committed to you, he will protect your feelings over those of the OW. If you continue to feel you are not important to him, and that he discounts your thoughts and feelings, you should keep watching him.


God bless you and keep you safe through a full and complete recovery.

SS

Thanks, SS. I know I will have bad days. I think weekly MC is freaking me out, as well. I do great for a few days afterwards, then I stress out and get anxious about the next one coming up. Like another one tomorrow - the day we talk about the EA. An hour just isnt going to cut it.

I can no longer enjoy the beach the way I used to, the thought of a bonfire (which I THOUGHT was special just to H and I) makes me want to puke. Its all a bunch of damn triggers. Everything I once loved and enjoyed about/with my H is now a trigger.

I lost 10 lbs since my birthday - which was only 10 days ago. 10 days ago I found that damn poem (from 5 months ago). TEN lbs. This is killing me, but I am putting on a pretty, smiling face everyday and catering to my H every need. I am resenting it today. He is also catering to mine, doing a great job of being a great H, but I am mad right now. I wanted him to be a great H 5 months ago when he was being so selfish and only thinking of himself (and that stupid, ugly OW).

Gdar, I can imagine it may feel awful for a while. How's your self care? I have a friend who also loses weight when she gets stressed, and she's thin to begin with. She said that she tries to drink some V8, so that she gets some nutrition even though she isn't hungry.

Well, I took the baby to the Dr yesterday to also find out he hasnt gained any weight since his 2 month check up, and he will be 4 months on Friday. I have increased my caloric intake 600, hoping to make a difference. I thought I had been eating well, as I always do (not a junk food or sweets eater, like veggies and organic foods) but my body is literally sapping me of all the nutrients I am putting in. I am already thin, so this is not what I was expecting. I weigh less now than I did before I got married (and have had 2 kids since).

I just cant believe what a physical toll this has taken on me, not just emotional. And I feel like I cant bring it up with H, because we have been doing so well this week.

Gdar - ThisBitterPill gave you some good advice.
Even IF your WH and OW's EA hasn't turned into a PA yet, it most likely will if you don't do all you can to stop it.
If they continue to work together, you continue to assure yourself that it's only an EA, and that's it's over even though they still work together, etc. then you are going to be in for a world of hurt and problems if the OW gets pregnant, or your husband leaves you for the OW.

I understand not wanting to believe that's possible, but it's not only possible but probable if you don't take action.

Who have you exposed their adultery so far?

Have you told her BH yet?

Are you following Plan A?

Have you decided how long you will give Plan A before going to Plan B?

Has your WH written the no contact letter to the OW for YOU to give/send to her?

Is he looking for another job or asking to be transferred so he no longer has contact with her? (Or is she going to switch jobs? BTW once you expose the adultery to their employer they will probably put a stop to the two of them working together.)

Has he made himself accountable to you by giving you his passwords, schedule, cellphone to look whenever you want?

Can you identify why you stress about going to MC?
I have an idea, but I don't want to prejudice your answer.



I can no longer enjoy the beach the way I used to, the thought of a bonfire (which I THOUGHT was special just to H and I) makes me want to puke. Its all a bunch of damn triggers. Everything I once loved and enjoyed about/with my H is now a trigger.

This is a common problem. Many here have reported that they "took back" these places, and songs, and so on. This might involve going to the beach for a weekend and making new memories. The other factor is time.
Time, and patience.

There is no substitute.



......... This is killing me, but I am putting on a pretty, smiling face everyday and catering to my H every need. I am resenting it today.

Please read Dr Harley's feelings on the giver, and the taker.
The Giver, and the Taker

If you keep giving, and giving, you will in time run out of gas.
I would guess you still wonder if you are getting total honesty from him. If you knew that he was in the marriage with all his heart, I don't think you would be resenting it. I don't believe your taker is getting what it really wants.

You have to know what you want, and you have to believe you are getting it, or will get it. It may be time to look inside and see what your feelings are trying to tell you.

He is also catering to mine, doing a great job of being a great H, but I am mad right now. I wanted him to be a great H 5 months ago when he was being so selfish and only thinking of himself (and that stupid, ugly OW).

I wonder what he is really thinking about all this too. If he has hidden resentment, this will come to a head if your inner thoughts are not addressed.

It won't come down to who is right, and who is wrong. It will come down to addressing both of your feelings, and making sure your givers and takers find balance, that LB's are eliminated, and that you meet each others REAL needs.

Real need, as opposed to perceived needs. Often we have a hard time understanding our own needs, and an even more difficult time explaining them to others.

We go to MC, and the counselor says "Oh, if he does this, and that, you ought to be happy, don't you agree?"
Since they are supposed to be the expert, we say "Oh, yes."
Our minds understand it, but our hearts know it's not enough.

Think about what you need, that you aren't getting. Then figure out how to talk about it.

SS

Unless he is screwing her on his desk in front of a bunch of other staff, he wont be knocking her up. All of his time is accounted for.

Thank you

I just bought Emotional Infidelity for $5 online. I cant wait to get it. I should have bought it sooner. I am hoping that I can get some more insight, and H can understand why boundaries need to be set in place (and in stone) so he can steer clear of ever being in a situation like this again. Eat your heart out, OW.

Ok, so tomorrow is the big "day" at our counseling session. I KNOW that H is still going to deny he was ever in a EA with OW, even though he admits he was too fliratious and promised it would stop. Any tips on how to deal with his continual denial? That is what I really, REALLY need. How to move on if I dont ever get the whole story...

I bet if your husband was at the OW's house he would not leave clothing around, drawers open etc. I feel he does not respect you enough. I am angry at him for this.

A couple suggestion on how to get her H's name. It is in your best interest to let him in on all of this. That way you will have 2 sets of eyes on them.

Look her up on www.zabasearch.com. Sometimes even people who are unlisted come up. If her info is there google her phone # or address. You could also do a reverse lookup of the phone # to see if the bill is listed in his name.

Or go to www.intelius.com and put her name in. Most often in a free search along with the person you are looking up is a list of relatives.

With either of these you should be able to get his name.


Do not put anything past a wayward. Although nothing physical ever happened at work during my A a lot of inappropriateness did and under the radar of most people. Anyone who figured it out said nothing because my FOM was an authority figure and they were not willing to risk anything. Once the A was over and my friends started asking me stuff one said they would all talk, figured we were adults and were going to do whatever we wanted no matter what anyone else thought. This info is from a coworker who is a good friend of mine and even she was afraid to say something.

I'm not trying to scare you, I just want you to see how possible it is to do something that seems very impossible and unlike the person you know.

LC

I was angry at him for this, too.

I know its only been a little over a week, but he has been doing great. Goes above and beyond what I ask of him. Actually, he has been doing better in this area for about a month now, but the past week has really been trying. I have to acknowledge his efforts.

(((Gdar))))

Just checked in and saw your new development.

So sorry that you are on the Infidelity board now.

My prayers are with you.

Stay strong!!

Wow. One week forward, now 5 months back.

We addressed the OW in our session yesterday. I cant hardly function right now. I have never in my life felt so physically ill when its something emotional eating at me. I cant lose anymore weight because its not good for my breast milk. I am eating, but its not sticking. I feel like I havent had a morsel of food in weeks.

He admitted the poem was about her. He admitted to staying up at night while I was in bed (on bedrest) emailing her. He said he knew it was wrong, but he did it anyway because I acted like I hated him, and he liked the attention. Um, I was mad at him BECAUSE of what he was doing, not the other way around. God forbid I should expect an extra 1% from my husband while I am on bedrest pregnant and trying to care for 3 other kids and a husband. He tried to blame it on me, but the therapist explained to him that that isnt how it works if he ever wants me to trust him again. That he cant sit and be defensive, then put the blame on me for HIS choice. And the only reason their (he and OM) convos ended, was because I caught him. Who knows how long it would have continued.

He didnt speak to me ONCE the entire rest of the day/evening. I was up all night crying, while he was sleeping like he had no cares in the world.

I cant forgive him if he is going to act like this about it.

He wont get her off his "teams". Said she is protected by union and he cant have her removed. He cant quit because he will be out of a job until a year from now when the next school year starts. We obviously cant afford to have him out of work.

I cant deal today. I am a mess. I dont know what to do.

Gdar,

I'm so sorry that you are dealing with this.

P.S. OM = Other Man - OW = Other Woman

I'm pretty sure you meant OW, but wanted to point that out so no one gets confused when reading your post.

As for you....again I am so sorry that you are dealing with this. An EA is very devastating and you have every right to feel bad right now.

You need a plan to take care of yourself though because this does not heal overnight. It will take time and it will take effort from him on being willing to compensate for the damage that he has caused. I hope he is up for it.

You could send him here, but he probably won't like what people have to say.

Hang in there....we are here for you!

Im sorry too. I would get a polygraph to see if there waas a PA.

Ugh. Now he is trying to compare his EA with a sexual dream I had about a friend of mine (which, by the way has been great for our sex life, because we talk about it - its a FANTASY, not reality) and that its ok for ME to have a sex dream about someone but not him. OMFG. You have GOT to be kidding me.

Gdar, I'm praying for you, hon. You're not alone. I'm glad that you're over here with the vets, to get some great advice.

Dr. H talks in the articles about taking ADs when you're going through this. When I breastfed DD7, the OB/GYN gave me Prozac, and there may well be others also approved for breastfeeding mothers. Do you get any exercise in, like walking? 30 minutes daily was found in one study to be as helpful for short term mild depression as ADs. I don't know if that's enough for this situation, though. What do you think?

Thank you, Ears. I do walk everyday. It has helped, but yesterday's session kicked my a$$.

I emailed out therapist and told him that I was really struggling today, feeling like I am losing my mind. He called me back and I feel a bit better. He said I need to NOT push for answers right now, or it will cause H to retreat.

Gdar, you may or may not get good advice from an MC. Does he use the Basic Concepts from MB or another prgram porven to restore marriages? H and I went through 4 counselors who didn't ask the questions we needed to get to the real problem. Only when I got here to MB did the lay folks here ask me the questions that helped me figure out my situation, so I could take action that fits instead of more action that didn't. The counseling we've been to since then, I KNOW the whole story, well, the whole of my side of it, so that I can share it.

Also, do you think that your H has an alcohol problem? Have you discussed it with the MC? Is your MC trained to deal with that?

Gdar, to be blunt, I'm pretty sure that it was, and perhaps is still, a PA.

Men don't write poems to other women unless there's a pretty high level of emotional intimacy involved, and men tend to be involved physically at that level of emotional intimacy.

Time for that lie-detector test.

And exposure.

(((Gdar)))

I'm so sorry. IMO, your quote is screaming to me that your H is still actively wayward. Somehow, you need to absorb this. This is not your H! Once you can accept that, you will be able to take the steps necessary to help him.

Please please reconsider exposure. Exposing is the best thing you can do to bust up the A right now...and OWH really needs to know ASAP.

ps...Please do whatever you can to eat and take care of yourself. Breastfeeding is taxing on your body, and your baby needs you to be healthy!

Gdar,

I know he has some immature behavior, but some of the things that he has said to you are classic signs of continued contact. Best case scenario could be that he is just that immature and has to have a tantrum when you tell him what he did was wrong by deflecting and "blaming" you for it.

He also needs to do a NC letter. That's an absolute MUST. And exposure to HER husband is an absolute MUST. Those are things that PROTECT YOU!

Seek medical help for Prozac or another AD for the short term so that you can have as much help as possible during this time. Don't try to be so strong that you hurt yourself.

It will be worth the money, for your body's sake, and your baby's, to hire a PI to get the information on all her friends and family, so that you can expose to them.

You MUST expose! Nothing will ever get resolved if you don't expose and if he doesn't write a NC letter. Without you demanding that, he is suffering no consequences and not earning the right to get you back. Please stand up for your rights.

Gdar, I'm so sorry for your situation.

I think exposure may be helpful, but I can see why you are concerned about other effects. Your marriage may have a hard time surviving if the school board/superinendent decided he has grounds to fire your husband outright based on information you provided. Financial stress and money fights has been sited as the number one reason for divorce, so adding any kind of financial stress on top of the emotional affair is a risk.

Maybe you can make a bargain that you won't expose the inappropriate relationship provided she removes herself from his "teams" and they have only so much contact as is absolutely necessary.

I'd like to suggest another book to read, The Monogamy Myth. I don't usually suggest it because one of the theories in the book is in direct conflict with MB. The Monogamy Myth states that affairs can happen even in good marriages, marraiges where both people are happily married. Dr. Harley's approach is that affairs are symptomatic of other problems in marriages.

I mostly agree with Dr. Harely. However, I wonder if your H's EA could have been more of an escape from the stress and worry of a wife on bed rest, three kids, and another on the way. Not an excuse, and certainly something that needs to be addressed, but that would be dramatically different from a situation where he didn't feel in love with you and wanted out of the marriage.

Be kind to yourself. Be patient. Try not to expect answers or resolution any time soon.

Greengables, I didn't find the quote on the site this morning, but Dr. H does talk about this dynamic, too, about how when a spouse spends significant amounts of time with another person that meets their ENs, that it can lead to an affair, even in a good marriage. The second example, the EA between the guy and his running partner in SAA, describes this in a lot of detail.

Thank you, GG, for understanding my position here. It isnt that black and white. What works for one couple, doesnt work for all. I do not believe at ALL that he is continuing with her. He simply does not have an ounce of free time, and I am close with the other principals and quite a few teachers. The level of contact they have isnt alone - its just not the dynamic at their work place. I feel comfort knowing this. I do trust this. I dont trust I know the whole story, and am trying to accept that I probably never will.

We have been doing better. We have talked a lot since the night I didnt get any sleep. He is asking me what he can do to make me feel safe, I am telling him, and he is open to it. He just told the district that he cannot attend a conference in Denver because he found out that there was a good chance the OW would be a teacher in attendance. He said that he simply cannot leave his family for anything out of state. He is going to stick to that for the rest of the school year, as this is his last year there. I am ok with him attending out of town conferences with his co-principals at his school, and any other school in the district (I know them all), but not with teachers. He is ok with this. He has been awesome when he gets home from work. He takes over with the baby, we play music, we chat, we dance with the kids, he doesnt touch his computer anymore unless its an absolute MUST for work, and never until after the kids are in bed, as to not interfere with family time.

I am trying to remain positive and he is noticing.

This weekend he put in a movie, and about 15 minjutes into it, the subject matter was about cheating (it was a comedy). He looked at me and saw I wasnt smiling, and turned it off and offered to put in something else so he could see me smile again. I appreciated that he knew it was making me uncomfortable, even if it was a comedy. He is being more aware of my feelings and its been nice.

Our next MC session is Thursday.

We are also having lunch together with our younger 2 kids on Tuesdays and Thursdays and its really helping us stay connected.

Yikes, Gdar, I saw that you were saying similar things in broken soul's thread and this concerns me. I know you are defensive and you probably don't want to hear this...

But I noticed many Newly BS's seem to have this "my situation is unique" view when they don't want to implement some of the MB principles...especially when their cake-eating WSs have them believing everything is fine and the BS then doesn't want to rock the boat.

I myself felt this way when my H swore on a stack of bibles that he didn't want anything to do with OW and seemed fully committed to R...swore they weren't seeing each other at work. They were also in an environment that didn't enable them to really be alone with another either. Well, that came back to haunt me.

Good luck.

I know, sometimes I really do feel like I am in denial. Sometimes I want to scream and yell and demand to know each and everytime they pass in the hall, or attend the same meeting, etc.. BUT I have zero proof, seen zero signs that show any activity happening since I exposed to my H and our friends. For my own sanity, I cannot continue to treat him as guilty if he is proving innocent. I just cant. I want to sometimes, but in order for us to recover, I am continuing with Plan A, continuing weekly MC and things are going well. I do not believe he is willing to throw our marriage away for the 2 months that we werent connecting, almost 6 months ago. For me, Plan A means giving him the benefit of the doubt (while remaining diligent by checking emails and phone records and showing up at his work unannounced A LOT), meeting his needs and allowing him to meet mine without being accusatory every day. Does that make sense? I feel we are in Recovery, although everyone here makes me feel like I should be at Plan B - which is NOT an option for me or my family.

It always does. I do not know of a single MB member that had a recovery while the adultery partners continued to work together. I know many, including my own, that lost their marriages totally because they continued to work together. This was after my WxW assured me the adultery was OVER. Opps.....another lie.

The finacial stress of losing a job is tough....divorce is tougher.

And both together is even worse.

Aside from Chrisner, I have seen several other long-term members say this is the rule you NEVER bend, never.

But Gdar, you are also choosing to believe that not informing OWH is a step you can skip!

Probably the two most important steps to protecting yourself and your family you are choosing to believe don't apply to your sitch...

ok, GDar, Plan A is not about giving a wayward spouse the "benefit of the doubt." It is not wise to give the benefit of the doubt to a wayward person. And as long as your H continues to see the OW every day, a) you are not in recovery and b) he is not to be trusted.

This would be just like a falling down drunk swearing off booze - not by quitting - but by changing the name of his drinks to BUSINESS DRINKS. Do you imagine an alcoholic could ever recover via that slight of hand?

It is ok if you choose to delude yourself about this. But posters here care too much about your well being to ENABLE you in that delusion. The truth is that recovery is impossible until contact ends. If you "FEEL" you are in recovery, I would only point out that feelings are not truth.

I also find it very bothersome that you won't tell the OWH. You keep the OWs secret at your own expense. Keeping this a secret enables the affair and harms your marriage.

You use the excuse that you have "zero proof" that they are in contact, yet they are in contact EVERY DAY. EVERY DAY. That is a continuation of the love affair, GDar. And you only know the EXTENT of the contact from your husband, a WAYWARD, whom you unwisely give the "benefit of the doubt."

I would take both before I would live with an active adulterer again. If they are in contact, you are not in recovery.

Good luck with your modified plan. Every example I can think of here has failed, but there is always a chance for a first.

You need to act like you are in recovery, and work as though you are.

However....

You need to continue to watch. It would be wise to never completely trust your spouse. We tend to get lax when we do, and we quit paying attention to things we ought to monitor.

I don't mean you should always look for signs of cheating. You should always look for signs of discontent, and or things that don't fit his normal behavior. If you see odd behavior, you should always follow up on it.

You are sounding much better personally. Like some of the "monkey" is off your back. That is a good thing. I would guess your whole family is happier now.

God be with you.

SS

Thank you, SS. This is what I intend to do. I now show up to his work regularly, and that makes me feel a bit better. I also have a feeling the OW is very jealous of me (she is not attractive, I am) and there are a ton of pictures and cards from me all over his office. When she was here at our house (for a work BBQ), I could tell she felt defeated. I plan to continue showing up at his work, looking and acting like a million bucks. She is so incredibly insecure, I think she knows she is no competition to me. She baited him while I was in a bad space, but now that "I" am back, she stands no chance. I wont let it happen. Hear me roar. LOL

I also recommend you pay close attention to what the other are telling you - There is a lot of wisdom in the comments you are getting.

Improvement is wonderful, but you should pay attention to all sides of this, not just some of them.

OK?

SS

Will do. I am, I really am. I tend to respond better with suggestions and not demands, that is all.

oh c'mon, who has made a "DEMAND" of you? Folks here are trying to HELP you, that is not a "demand." Telling you that his daily contact with the OW will preclude recovery is not a demand, it is a warning.